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JP Morgan: Apple's iPad rivals reduce build plans after 'early dose of reality' - Page 2

post #41 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

There are some utterly horrendous craplets on the market. The ones that fall into the "other" category. For example...

Good call.
I truly suspect these stats that claim that iPad has dropped below the 70th percentile.
Those numbers have to include the mass of cheapo, throw-away junk that they sell on Home Shopping Network. Toilet paper tablets.

If you include only serious, non-fly-by-night products, iPad has to be over 90%
post #42 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainless View Post

LOL. Have you seen any of the latest tablets ? Unlike iPad, they don't need a cable and iTunes running on the PC to sync. They work just fine standalone, syncing OTA to the cloud. Even if you buy app in the web based market somewhere, you don't need PC to download and transfer the app to the tablet. Apple still have a head-start given they were in the market a year earlier, but as apps for tablets are finally showing up, that gap is closing.

Have you used an iDevice? You don't have to sync to a computer to download an app.
post #43 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainless View Post

Have you seen this ? : http://bit.ly/mNsc0E

The speed is not ultimate goal, but it is an enabler, and we still haven't seen many things packaged for tiny, portable device that runs on battery. Guess, at least for portable gaming we will see return to more traditional situation, where thousands of small players give a way to major players.

NVidia is an over-promise/under-deliver type of company. Tegra was going to rule the world. Used only in the Zune. Then Tegra 2 was going to be in top tier mass consumer products in Feb 2010. They made Feb 2011. Kal-El was going to be July/Aug 2011 now it is "holiday season" 2011 but they still don't have final silicon. I expect first serious Tegra 3 (Kal-El) tablets about the time of the iPad 3.
post #44 of 75
Seems like Apple can't build enough, and their competitors can only built too many
post #45 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

I actually dont find this news too surprising tho, as we are probably nearing eol for the tegra2. With Kal-El expected before the end of the year, the reduction in build plans may be indications that next gen, kal-el based tablets could be popping up soon

Ahh the infamous 'next best thing' from NVidia . Are they going to actually deliver on time, with the promised performance, instead of talking much but delivering little like they did with Tegra and Tegra 2? Tegra 2 might be EOL already, but it took about 6 months after they 'released' it before actual devices shipped that used it, and by that time it was already outdated compared to the A5, to the OMAP 4 series, to the Exynos, to the latest Qualcomm chips, actually, it was simply too little too late. I'm kind of bummed there are still people pretending it's anything special compared to its competitors, and that just because it has 'NVidia' on it, it must have crazy graphics performance, while in fact it has the worst graphics performance of all current ARM SoC's.

This time it's "quad-core" that is supposed to lead us to believe NVidia is going to blow everyone away, even though even dual-core still means nothing in mobile devices today. Most dual-core android devices actually perform worse compared to single-core devices at the same clockspeed.

It's exactly crap like this that is killing the iPad competitors: trying to sell a product based on imaginary advantages derived from specs that say nothing about how good the product is in reality.
post #46 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptainK View Post

The iPad HW isn't selling the iPad, the iTunes 'ecosystem' is. Easy to purchase content and apps is the killer feature. Android still continues to be too fragmented.

The momentum that Apple has and the good things people say about iPad on TV and in the streets is another thing that makes people choose iPad over the competition. Most buyers do not feel comfortable making a pre-purchasing evaluation for themselves and rely almost exclusively on trusted opinions. Nobody wants to take a chance on any other tablet when they know they will be safe with iPad. Plus the price is right.

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post #47 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainless View Post

LOL. Have you seen any of the latest tablets ? Unlike iPad, they don't need a cable and iTunes running on the PC to sync. They work just fine standalone, syncing OTA to the cloud.

Have you used an iPad lately? Mail, Safari, iBooks and others sync just fine over the net.
Quote:
Even if you buy app in the web based market somewhere, you don't need PC to download and transfer the app to the tablet.

Not a problem on iPad either. Your commments make me wonder if you have actually used an iPad recently.
Quote:
Apple still have a head-start given they were in the market a year earlier, but as apps for tablets are finally showing up, that gap is closing.

Not really! Buying into Android and Goggle is a horrible thing to do for many. Until a real alternative to Android pops up Apple will have little in the way of competition.
post #48 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

....
[OFF TOPIC RANT]

Right now Apple has the lead in the market, but if they don't find a way to improve the shopping experience in their on-line stores, sooner or later one of their competitors will. Perhaps the nook already has.
[/OFF TOPIC RANT]

Could not agree more. I really dislike using the iTunes store for anything beyond music.
For apps, especially, it is pitiful.
Thankfully, we have AppShopper.com, or I would not know about half of the apps I currently own.
post #49 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Not really! Buying into Android and Goggle is a horrible thing to do for many. Until a real alternative to Android pops up Apple will have little in the way of competition.

Buying into Apple might be considered horrible by some too. That doesn't change opinion into fact.
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post #50 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by elliots11 View Post

Apple invented this market of tablets closely tied to smart phone parts, they thought of everything In detail way in advance.

That is in part because the ipad came first in the design process. Steve realized that it could be shrunk into a phone and that a phone might be the easier sell first (details he's revealed over several interviews)


Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Remember at 63M - the iPad is still just in the lead, down from 100%. The question is whether it can continue above 50%

Given the sales results of the other guys so far and the continuous reports of this school, that company and now the government jumping on the ipad, I think 50% is going to be very easy for quite some time. In fact I think 75% is going to be easy for quite some time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

Strange. I cant speak for the xoom or the playbook, but everywhere ive read has said the asus transformer has been sold out, and that asus is desperately trying to ramp up production to meet demand, not reduce build plans.

Yes but how many units does that mean.

Remember HP announced that they sold out of the Slate in pre-orders that actually came in at almost double expectation. And then it was revealed that the expectation and the production run was only 5K and the line was already shut down (meaning a good 2-3 months for the other approx 5k to even be built).

ANd who did they sell them out to. Samsung I believe it was claimed they had sold 1 million Galaxy tab units in like 2 weeks. But then it was revealed that that was factory to reseller and of the ones actually going to end users it was more like 100k sold and a good 15-20% of that was returned in the first week and another 15-20% in the second.
post #51 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm6032 View Post

Thank You. I've had this thought for a long time and could not figure out how to express it. You did so, eloquently and concisely. We are all calling this a "tablet" market. Tablets have been around a long time. They went nowhere This is an iPad market.

We also talk about an ecosystem. It's more. It's a vertically integrated fortress of products and services that people understand, can use, want, and pay for.

The iPad is at the top of a series of products that starts with iPod's, iPod Touch's, and iPhones. People grew used to each one, each step up just adds something.

Competitors will have a difficult time storming this castle. They must build their own.

Great post. Short and thoughtful.
post #52 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

No one has commented on the funniest part of the whole article.

According to the newest (reduced) estimates, Apple will build 38 M units and everyone else combined with produce 35 M.

Saddest part being that Apple will sell all their 38M units (with a return rate of maybe 10%). But only perhaps 1/3 of the other ones will sell or be given away as part of contracts etc. And a quarter of that will be returned within a couple of weeks, some for another not Apple, some for the ipad
post #53 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainless View Post

LOL. Have you seen any of the latest tablets ? Unlike iPad, they don't need a cable and iTunes running on the PC to sync. They work just fine standalone, syncing OTA to the cloud. Even if you buy app in the web based market somewhere, you don't need PC to download and transfer the app to the tablet. Apple still have a head-start given they were in the market a year earlier, but as apps for tablets are finally showing up, that gap is closing.

Nope, I haven't seen these. That's fantastic and in line with what I'm talking about. Which ones are these?

If we begin to see suitable sales for them, given adequate apps as you said, Apple might have to face the prospect of cannibalizing Mac sales to preserve their lead in tablets.
post #54 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranReloaded View Post

Consfusing R&D with M&A... Can you say "Microsoft"?

Microsoft is confusing ^C&^V for R&D

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post #55 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm6032 View Post

Thank You. I've had this thought for a long time and could not figure out how to express it. You did so, eloquently and concisely. We are all calling this a "tablet" market. Tablets have been around a long time. They went nowhere This is an iPad market.

We also talk about an ecosystem. It's more. It's a vertically integrated fortress of products and services that people understand, can use, want, and pay for.

The iPad is at the top of a series of products that starts with iPod's, iPod Touch's, and iPhones. People grew used to each one, each step up just adds something.

Competitors will have a difficult time storming this castle. They must build their own.

Great post. Short and thoughtful.
post #56 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

There are some utterly horrendous craplets on the market. The ones that fall into the "other" category. For example:

The "eLocity A7 7" Capacitive Touch Screen Android Tablet"
http://www.elocitynow.com/

The "Sylvania SYNET7LP 7-Inch Mini Tablet"
http://www.androidtablets.net/forum/...-progress.html

Here are 31 (yes, thirty one) "Cheap Tablet PCs"
http://www.china-tablet-pc.com/cheap...t-pc-c-17.html

And finally, if you thought those OLPC laptops were cheap at $100, here's a $35 Indian pad:
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010...itute-computer

They're all knee-jerk reactions to iPad, by manufacturers who fell into the "cheaper means more market share" death-spiral-think. Greenpeace should whack these guys for creating such huge carbon footprints for so little return.

Ugh... it was absolutely painful to read about the 31 Cheap Tablets website. Their English grammar is horrible. I did find it funny to that they had an "Apple iPad" section only to read see that there are selling junk "aPad" devices called "Cheap Tablet Apple iPad" knockoffs. That alone should IMHO warrant a call from Apple and threaten to shut these jokers down.

Such a shame that most of these craplet devices will end up in landfills, desk drawers, or door stops. What a waste of our ever-dwindling resources.
post #57 of 75
I was in Staples yesterday to get some toner for my printer. The Xoom, Galaxies, Playbooks were all clustered next to toner shelves. As I walked in there was a 40-ish lady discussing pros and cons of the Xoom with a sales guy. From the snippets I heard, she sounded sharp and well-informed. she was asking good questions. The sales guy was good too, he was most professional and came up with good answers. It turned out that the Xoom on display was broken and he had no authority to unbox another to demo for her. He admitted that he had no idea when a working model would be on display.

With new toner under my arm, I tiptoed past shaking my head in disbelief. This lady snagged me in the parking lot a moment later and said she'd seen me shaking my head and wanted to hear my thoughts. I responded that if she really wanted an iPad, she should go buy one. She parted by saying "Yeah, you're right. I really want an iPad but I wanted to see what the others could do."
post #58 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonsalvesd View Post

Great post. Short and thoughtful.

gr8 post - terse n 2 th pt.
post #59 of 75
If you don't have a strong infrastructure, you have a house of cards.

This is what the other guys don't get. It's not about a touch interface. It's not about Flash capability. It's not about how many USB ports you have, or whether or not there's an SD slot. It's the infrastructure, stupid! Apple's success with the iPad began 10 years ago with iTunes. Through iTunes, customers became familiar with a relatively easy to use music player, as well as an easy way to connect and sync with their iPods, and eventually iOS devices. Then Apple made deals with most of the record labels, and eventually film and television studios so that customers could buy movies, music and tv shows via the iTunes interfacean interface customers were already familiar with and used to by this time. This brought in millions of fans to iTunes, because they now had an easy, legal way to download their favourite songs, movies and tv showsand load them onto their devices. With this huge customer base, it was relatively easy for Apple to coax developers to create "apps" for their new device platformiPhone OS, eventually iOS. Once iOS became a bona fide development platform, the time was ripe for the iPad, using technologies developed for the iPhone and iPod Touch and going further.

Apple's not so much a "revolutionary" company as an "evolutionary" company. They just seem revolutionary in part because of Jobs' showmanship on stage when introducing new products, but more importantly, in contrast to other companies' lackluster, or worse, "rushed-to-market" product announcements.

Apple's success with the iPad was more than 10 years in the making. Other companies seem to think they can match or beat that with products that have been incubating for a couple of years or even less. FAIL!

You want evidence for "Intelligent Design"? Apple is it!
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post #60 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

There is no tablet market. There is only an iPad market.

Right-O!
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post #61 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

You want evidence for "Intelligent Design"? Apple is it!

Oh, please don't open that can of worms!
post #62 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by cy_starkman View Post

Something else to think about. Perhaps the current size of the buying market is only 7-10million a quarter.

I have found many of the Android generic phones, like the original G1 are junk compared to an iPhone. Yet they sold enough per manufacturer to give them some traction each.

There simply is no room for anyone else to sell volume. All the associated factors don't help. At least an android phone was a phone. A tablet without all the supporting story going on is just a crap ass computer.

That but also Android phones are subsidized and they practically cost next to nothing. Much of that market share is due to people buying in to the sales guy pitch, buying an android phone for the price, and never use it or update it. I know a lot of people lime that.
post #63 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

If you don't have a strong infrastructure, you have a house of cards.

This is what the other guys don't get. It's not about a touch interface. It's not about Flash capability. It's not about how many USB ports you have, or whether or not there's an SD slot. It's the infrastructure, stupid! Apple's success with the iPad began 10 years ago with iTunes. Through iTunes, customers became familiar with a relatively easy to use music player, as well as an easy way to connect and sync with their iPods, and eventually iOS devices. Then Apple made deals with most of the record labels, and eventually film and television studios so that customers could buy movies, music and tv shows via the iTunes interfacean interface customers were already familiar with and used to by this time. This brought in millions of fans to iTunes, because they now had an easy, legal way to download their favourite songs, movies and tv showsand load them onto their devices. With this huge customer base, it was relatively easy for Apple to coax developers to create "apps" for their new device platformiPhone OS, eventually iOS. Once iOS became a bona fide development platform, the time was ripe for the iPad, using technologies developed for the iPhone and iPod Touch and going further.

Apple's not so much a "revolutionary" company as an "evolutionary" company. They just seem revolutionary in part because of Jobs' showmanship on stage when introducing new products, but more importantly, in contrast to other companies' lackluster, or worse, "rushed-to-market" product announcements.

Apple's success with the iPad was more than 10 years in the making. Other companies seem to think they can match or beat that with products that have been incubating for a couple of years or even less. FAIL!

You want evidence for "Intelligent Design"? Apple is it!

Very well put. The competition is merely reacting to Apple and it's success and trying not to be left behind. I suspect they DO understand that Apple has been building up to the iPad all these years, but they just can't do anything about it.

And how dare they sell us a smartphone OS and pass it off as an iPad competitor? The gullible will fall for it and that's where the scraps or crumbs they've acquired from this market come from.

Also, why does the competition insist on adding all these ports and connections to their devices? I like the iPad's thin/light form factor. I don't need hdmi when at work, so providing it as an option (as an adapter) would work much better. You're still paying for it either way.
post #64 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post

The "latest tablets" are mostly running the non-tablet Android, HP's webOS or RIMs QNX. Pre Honeycomb Android is not scaled to the tablet and all the apps are geared for smartphone use.

Hm, the "latest tablets" either run Honeycomb, or webOS, both of them use the bigger screen better than iPad, which is just oversize iPhone (not talking about the apps, but the OS itself). If you are really happy with the app springboard as the only interface and don't need or want to see data from multiple apps in the same time, so be it, good for you, but I don't see how this is "optimized for tablet"

Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post

You can of couse download apps on the fly on an iPad, and don'r need a PC to transfer it to the iPad, although you can do it that way if you desire. And if you have MobileMe you are already syncing things without a wire to the PC. Not completely "tetherless" but enough that you don't have to think much about it.

You didn't read what I wrote, right ? Of course it is possible to buy content on the device, but I wasn't talking about this scenario. If you "create" some content off the device, i.e. getting apps externally (web store), or getting some content that you want to transfer to the tablet (documents, music, videos...) you need to use iTunes to sync. There is no such need on the other tablets, everything can be done OTA. Contacts, calendar, all that is synced. No need to pay for MobileME.

Special case is getting system updates...while other platforms allow you to do this transparently, iPad requires you to connect to iTunes on PC to get updates. It is almost impossible to use the iPad as the PC replacement, unless you want to be stuck to old system version, where security vulnerabilities are not fixed.

Apple is probably going to change this with iCloud, but as it is now, iOS is behind other platforms in that regard. I am afraid this too much to ask for you to admit this fact, isn't it ?
post #65 of 75
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post #66 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Brainless in name, Brainless in nature. The absence of a brain.

Still though, there is truth in advertising here. Give him that, at least.

You don't have any arguments, just stupid rant about the screen name ?
post #67 of 75
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post #68 of 75
Still, though. He is right about Apple having to hook iPads up to Computers.
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post #69 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

There is no tablet market. There is only an iPad market.

I've heard this a few times and it always makes me laugh.

Have you ever held something like a Samsung Galaxy? It feels like a plastic toy in comparison to the iPad. Combined with the Apple ecosystem that has been mentioned, what I have seen of the competitors offerings doesn't even come close.
post #70 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

There is no tablet market. There is only an iPad market.

Absolutely. I was thoroughly underwhelmed by the iPad and after a few months of disuse, sold it. I'm even more underwhelmed by the Android tablets. HoneyComb is very rough around the edges, although like the G1, shows tremendous promise. However, it's the hardware, cost and usability that are really keeping me away from the Android tablets.

The Asus Transformer is the only one that's got me excited and I'll most likely get it when I get a combo deal of the transformer and the keyboard dock.
post #71 of 75
Thank you JeffDM.

As it should be.
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post #72 of 75
Don't know why I didn't notice this sentence quoting from the JPMorgan report earlier:

"At that time, the report said, competing tablet companies created 81 million tablets; this year the number has fallen to 73 million."

That makes no sense to me at all. What collection of iPad competing companies has already produced 80 million tablets??

If even just half of those were actually sold, that would leave Apple with much less than 50% of the tablet market. Something wrong somewhere.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...omer-traction/
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post #73 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaBladeMastery View Post

The competition just seem to be copycats. Their products exist 'cause they don't want Apple to be too far ahead in this market or it'll be nearly impossible to catch up. So their solution is to rush half-assed products out (both hardware and software) so that consumers shouldn't think this is an Apple only space. The longer consumers think that way, the more irrelevant the competition becomes. It looks like they made tablets because of Apple's success and didn't put any thought into an 'ecosystem'. And that is a deal breaker for me as a consumer. Companies like that will remain 2nd rate in my eyes.

It's funny that so many companies are rushing these half-assed products to market. The only company that isn't rushing is HP. It's a shame really because I think that Palm was onto something. Sure they screwed up on the business side of things and the hardware wasn't spectacular, but WebOS is a solid product. I don't know much about HP's new CEO, but if he's smart then he should be looking into building an ecosystem for HP. The first thing I'd do is buy doubleTwist. If HP gets the hardware right this time and does a better job on marketing than Palm, then they could be the second company (after Apple) to sell tablets in volume.

On a side note, I'm really surprised that Amazon, who is trying to be the content provider and ecosystem for all platforms, hasn't snatched up doubleTwist yet.
post #74 of 75
According to a BGR report, ASUS is claiming 300K Transformer tablets will ship this month. Yet Mr. Moskowitz states that ASUS is reducing production? Methinks he knows a bit less about manufacturer plans than he want his reader's to believe.

http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/10/asus-s...-besides-ipad/
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post #75 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Still, though. He is right about Apple having to hook iPads up to Computers.

Not for much longer!
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