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Apple may offer free iCloud services with aggressively priced Mac OS X Lion - Page 2

post #41 of 119
6/1/11 at 8:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

FindMyMac will be free. As will the current MobileMe offerings.

Everything else about the new MobileMe/iCloud? Paid. Plain and simple.

Lion, though, I'd see $50-$80. Somewhere around there.

I think the new features of iCloud if not all of it, will either be free or included in the price we already pay.

The reason is because that's how it's already working for me. Ever since the Pages update yesterday, my Pages documents have been syncing themselves automatically with the cloud (iDisk), and the option to manually do it has been removed from the software.

It seems unlikely to me that they will then take this new feature away next week.

It also seems likely that what we are talking about here is a sort of file locker that's synced to all mobile devices and desktops automatically. If that's included in the current price (and it seems like it will be), then there's really nothing more to want IMO. I can't think of any wonderful new iCloud features beyond that that would be worth paying extra for.
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post #42 of 119
6/1/11 at 8:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by justfine View Post

Because I was paying $140 for 2 separate accounts and their greater storage capacity on iDisk which we use for cloud backup. A much better deal for 2 persons.

Wow! Has it finished yet ?

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #43 of 119
6/1/11 at 8:50am
If iCloud mirrors/backups my entire iTunes library, including all the CDs I ripped using Apple Lossless, I would happily pay for it.
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post #44 of 119
6/1/11 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Crap, made the change. Sorry, I mean Lion.

Sokay. I was kinda making a lame joke anyway
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post #45 of 119
6/1/11 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

It seems unlikely to me that they will then take this new feature away next week.

They won't, you'll just be paying for it.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #46 of 119
6/1/11 at 9:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

They won't, you'll just be paying for it.

What I meant was this was a "new feature" and it seems like it's included in the price I already pay.

I'm already fine with $99 a year for the bookmark syncing and email alone, if they add in cloud documents and don't change the price, it's a win for me, and probably for most MobileMe members as well.
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post #47 of 119
6/1/11 at 9:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unkown Blogger View Post

How do you "preannounce" something? Once you mention it, that's the announcement.

It works like magic.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #48 of 119
6/1/11 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

What I meant was this was a "new feature" and it seems like it's included in the price I already pay.

I'm already fine with $99 a year for the bookmark syncing and email alone, if they add in cloud documents and don't change the price, it's a win for me, and probably for most MobileMe members as well.

I might pay more for them to stop mangling my data.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #49 of 119
6/1/11 at 9:08am
Won't you need 3g service or WiFi to access to cloud? And if you are someplace without those two I guess you have no music or data???
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post #50 of 119
6/1/11 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Won't you need 3g service or WiFi to access to cloud? And if you are someplace without those two I guess you have no music or data???

I don't know why you would assume that you can't put them onto your ipod/phone/pad/laptop like always.

Personally, I ripped all of my DVDs to watch on my iPad. Until there is a 1.5 TB iPad, streaming works or me. I already do it via homesharing, but to do it at the cottage would be a big bonus. Of course, I always leave a season of Seinfeld on it in case the internet is down.
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post #51 of 119
6/1/11 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unkown Blogger View Post

How do you "preannounce" something? Once you mention it, that's the announcement.

You realize, of course, you won't get far in life if you keep making sense like that.
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post #52 of 119
6/1/11 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post

One thing that wouldn´t help Lion addoption is if Core Solo Macs and/or Core Duo Macs were not supported by Lion.

There is a host of older iMacs and Mac Minis that should be supported. (hec even if its not your main Mac, maybe you use it as a backup server and Lion´s server software would be perfect for that)

Any news on what the minimum system requirements for Lion will be?

Definitely not supported in the Lion Preview. Only 64 bit CPUs are officially supported. Some people reportedly have hacked the installer to allow it to run on Core Duo, but those are probably the same folks that get it to run on Dells too.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #53 of 119
6/1/11 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

Or "Baron Von Cloudington"

The Queen actually bestowed that on Prince William to cover the Crown's devoted Apple followers. It pairs rather nicely with his other title Baron Carrickfergus.
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post #54 of 119
6/1/11 at 9:28am
I don't get why people think it is impossible for iCloud to be free.

Even if the MPAA/RIAA get high fees people have to remember that the goal of this service is to drive iPod/iPhone/iPad sales.

If Apple takes the hit off the top for the consumer they would more than make up for it in increased sales of their hardware products.
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post #55 of 119
6/1/11 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

I don't know why you would assume that you can't put them onto your ipod/phone/pad/laptop like always.

Personally, I ripped all of my DVDs to watch on my iPad. Until there is a 1.5 TB iPad, streaming works or me. I already do it via homesharing, but to do it at the cottage would be a big bonus. Of course, I always leave a season of Seinfeld on it in case the internet is down.

Get a NAS like the Promise SmartStor. Built in DNLA with a web server and you can access and stream media from the browser.
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post #56 of 119
6/1/11 at 9:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiles77 View Post

We're probably looking at $49 for a boxed copy and $29 for the Mac App Store download.

Unlikely for that price!
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post #57 of 119
6/1/11 at 9:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patranus View Post

I don't get why people think it is impossible for iCloud to be free.

If Apple takes the hit off the top...

Because Apple doesn't "take hits off the top".
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #58 of 119
6/1/11 at 9:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

Am I massively missing something about streaming of music, but I really can't understand why I need it? The fact that I can have my iTunes library on multiple devices means I already have all my music with me wherever I go. I really can't imagine a time I wouldn't have my music with me.

Maybe there is a business out there for a subscription music plan like Netflix is for movies, but I can't see it. I think people are used to owning their music and Apple will have a hard time overcoming that.

As for the pricing of iCloud, it will depend entirely on what it consists of. I've never paid for MobileMe, because Yahoo Mail is good and free. Web calendaring doesn't seem to fit for me, since my iPhone (which is always with me) synchs my Outlook calendar, so I just don't see the value proposition.

Good luck to them though. There has been so much talk about Cloud computing that I wait to be blown away by it - but it's not happened yet......





Yeah, I have the same feelings about the music streaming. I love music, but I have less than 5gb...even if I had three times the music, it would still all fit on my iphone with no trouble, and I imagine in one year there will be more storage space. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but of the things that take up a great deal of space on my phone, music isn't one of them. I see how it could be helpful...I suppose...but I don't see why it is an emphasized feature.
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post #59 of 119
6/1/11 at 9:43am
Am I totally alone in liking MobileMe? I agree it's pricey if you only use one or two of its features, but if you use them all it's great value. The web hosting is often unused by the moaners but it's worth the market rate for hosting alone! Push email and calendar synch make it a great package.

It all works just fine for me too and always has after a few early problems, for which (as in conveniently forgotten) I was reimbursed!!
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post #60 of 119
6/1/11 at 9:50am
ICloud may be well and good but many times I don't have internet access so I am leery of cloud only apps and access!
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post #61 of 119
6/1/11 at 9:52am
I hope they also co-announce the back-to-school promo. Then new Air's sometime soon.

New Air w/ Lion + free 8GB iTouch = winning
MBA 13" i7/4GB/256GB

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MBA 13" i7/4GB/256GB

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post #62 of 119
6/1/11 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post

Am I totally alone in liking MobileMe? I agree it's pricey if you only use one or two of its features, but if you use them all it's great value. The web hosting is often unused by the moaners but it's worth the market rate for hosting alone! Push email and calendar synch make it a great package.

It all works just fine for me too and always has after a few early problems, for which (as in conveniently forgotten) I was reimbursed!!

I appreciate MobileMe. It's got some rough spots, but the features I use (like hosting, sync, and photo gallery) are very much worth the $70/year I've paid for it. I'm looking forward to what will be added in this update. My subscription has another 53 days on it, so I'm good to go for trying out the new system when it goes live. I hope the student discount rumor is true. It makes a lot more sense of why they would postpone the announcement 'til WWDC if iCloud is included in new Mac purchases and possible additional special deals for students.
GIGO. The truth in all of life.
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GIGO. The truth in all of life.
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post #63 of 119
6/1/11 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol77 View Post

Yeah, I have the same feelings about the music streaming. I love music, but I have less than 5gb...even if I had three times the music, it would still all fit on my iphone with no trouble, and I imagine in one year there will be more storage space. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but of the things that take up a great deal of space on my phone, music isn't one of them. I see how it could be helpful...I suppose...but I don't see why it is an emphasized feature.

Well, to be fair though, one of the main attractions of the iPhone is the iPod that's built into it and if you are a real music lover the music you carry around is likely to be the biggest space hog on your phone. I put myself in that category and usually have about 20 Gig's of music on my phone at any one time.

The thing about streaming music though is that you can already do it with iDisk. iDisk has all the same features of Google's music locker already and has had for a while. This suggests to me that the music streaming they will offer will either be free, or have some other compelling reason to use it, or both.
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post #64 of 119
6/1/11 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psobuzz View Post

Totally agree...

Cheap lion and some free icloud sounds perfect. Bring it on.

And ponies! Don't forget ponies.
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post #65 of 119
6/1/11 at 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaoliver39 View Post

ICloud may be well and good but many times I don't have internet access so I am leery of cloud only apps and access!

Ah, so YOU'RE the one without internet access. We were all wondering who it was.
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post #66 of 119
6/1/11 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Well, to be fair though, one of the main attractions of the iPhone is the iPod that's built into it and if you are a real music lover the music you carry around is likely to be the biggest space hog on your phone. I put myself in that category and usually have about 20 Gig's of music on my phone at any one time.

The thing about streaming music though is that you can already do it with iDisk. iDisk has all the same features of Google's music locker already and has had for a while. This suggests to me that the music streaming they will offer will either be free, or have some other compelling reason to use it, or both.

That's true for me as well, music is by far the biggest part of my iPhone, but it all fits on there.

However, I was given an 8Gb Nano last week, and it's the first time I've had an iPod too small to fit all my music and as it has turned out, I love it! What it's shown me is that when I have all my music, I end up listening to the same few things, but when I'm restricted by what iTunes has picked for me, I'm listening to stuff I hadn't listened to for ages!

Funny how a limitation can end up being a benefit!
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post #67 of 119
6/1/11 at 10:19am
What is so plain and simple about it? Findmymac used to be paid as well. All the other services provided in MobileMe used to be free. Apple made a mistake going to the paid model. Admittedly, that of course is easy in hindsight to say. Things have changed for Apple with its new fancy data centers and involvement with mobile advertising.

Yet, free email and other similar services make sense. They would be great marketing for Apple; they would keep people away from one more Google service; it hurts Google by attacking services like Gmail (that Google uses to get people hooked on more Google services); and Apple could incorporate iAds into the service.

The service used to be free for people buying the new OS, or people buying a new Mac. I think it makes sense to go back to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

FindMyMac will be free. As will the current MobileMe offerings.

Everything else about the new MobileMe/iCloud? Paid. Plain and simple.

Lion, though, I'd see $50-$80. Somewhere around there.
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post #68 of 119
6/1/11 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaoliver39 View Post

ICloud may be well and good but many times I don't have internet access so I am leery of cloud only apps and access!

yes - cloud only is lame
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post #69 of 119
6/1/11 at 10:22am
Yet, Apple used to give just about all these services away for free (and more). These services cost Apple very little, but keep people tied into Apple's ecosystem. Does Apple really want people spending all their time using Google's free services?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Because Apple doesn't "take hits off the top".
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post #70 of 119
6/1/11 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by slinberg View Post

Ah, so YOU'RE the one without internet access. We were all wondering who it was.



Seriously lots of us have times when we're offline. When I'm away from home or the office I have no net access because I refuse to buy a data plan from a cell phone carrier.

It IS possible to live without 3G.
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post #71 of 119
6/1/11 at 10:25am
any information on how many SL discs have been sold?
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post #72 of 119
6/1/11 at 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post

Am I totally alone in liking MobileMe? I agree it's pricey if you only use one or two of its features, but if you use them all it's great value. The web hosting is often unused by the moaners but it's worth the market rate for hosting alone! Push email and calendar synch make it a great package.

It all works just fine for me too and always has after a few early problems, for which (as in conveniently forgotten) I was reimbursed!!

I love it and it works flawlessly for me. Apple could just make some minor improvements and I'd be more than happy to keep subscribing. First on my list would be dropbox like sync. But as you can see, people want "more."
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post #73 of 119
6/1/11 at 10:35am
Why does everyone say that MobileMe is broken or doesn't work? It's been working just fine for me. Rarely ever do I have email interruption, synching between my Mac and iDevices is seamless and completely trouble free, my website (built with iWeb) is always available and iDisk (though slow) is always reliable. Speeding up the upload/download speeds to iDisk would be my #1 request in a MobileMe update followed closely by the ability to leave comments on Web Gallery photos and movies. Neither of which would 'fix' MobileMe, just enhance it.

The MobileMe complainers seem overly dramatic. The service is FAR from broken or a failure. An underperformer? Most likely, but I can't be the only user who's very happy and content with the service.

As for making MobileMe free in Lion. I highly doubt it. The iCloud enhancements will serve to make the $8 a month fee more attractive.
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post #74 of 119
6/1/11 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post

Am I totally alone in liking MobileMe? I agree it's pricey if you only use one or two of its features, but if you use them all it's great value. The web hosting is often unused by the moaners but it's worth the market rate for hosting alone! Push email and calendar synch make it a great package.

It all works just fine for me too and always has after a few early problems, for which (as in conveniently forgotten) I was reimbursed!!

Whether or not people have happy experiences with MobileMe syncing seems to be all in the luck of the if-then-else draw. I have seen terrifying data loss in every app, except iDisk which I find so slow I am never sure it's done before I pack up my Mac and leave. On another forum where I participate, not related to tech and therefore reasonably grown-up, someone mentioned losing some data and the whole forum seemed to chime in with further examples.

Eg in mail: I renamed a folder with 1,000+ emails in it. The folder disappeared, the new one appeared with no emails, over the next 30 minutes new emails reappeared, but not all, then later the old folder reappeared holding some of the old email, but the total number of remaining emails was less than the original. I have tons of these examples such as multiple drafts of sent emails lurking in Drafts but won't bore you, though I do envy you your working MobileMe.

When it does work, it is bad at maintaining data quality. Say you decide you want to make a custom tag for dates called 'expirydate'. You do it on the iPhone and next time you want to do the same, you click Custom and you see your previous custom tags and can choose the same one. But on OSX when you choose Custom, you *don't* see them, so you might enter "Expiry Date", which is not the same. Now you have a mess with two tags for the same thing and poor data quality. If you wanted to do something clever with searching or some AppleScript, it's broken. Same applies with country. Choose a country on the iPhone and the country is set. On OSX you can't choose a country, it's just text. Even if you type it exactly as on the iPhone it's just text. So if you enter Nicaragua in OSX and view it on the iPhone, it looks correct, but when you drill into the edit screen it's still set to the default USA. And when you try to map it, it often ends up showing Cupertino due to no matching address. Again, the examples go on and on.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #75 of 119
6/1/11 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psobuzz View Post

One more thing, I have a pro and an air. Does anyone know if I will have to buy two copies?

Or a way of getting it on both without paying twice?

AFAIK OSX releases have never checked if the CD was used before, you can technically buy one copy for a whole house of Mac's, albeit it violates the terms of use.
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post #76 of 119
6/1/11 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

What is so plain and simple about it? Findmymac used to be paid as well. All the other services provided in MobileMe used to be free. Apple made a mistake going to the paid model. Admittedly, that of course is easy in hindsight to say. Things have changed for Apple with its new fancy data centers and involvement with mobile advertising.

Yet, free email and other similar services make sense. They would be great marketing for Apple; they would keep people away from one more Google service; it hurts Google by attacking services like Gmail (that Google uses to get people hooked on more Google services); and Apple could incorporate iAds into the service.

The service used to be free for people buying the new OS, or people buying a new Mac. I think it makes sense to go back to that.

I don't think we can say Apple made a mistake. If we accept that they did then it was a mistake that starting in 2002, transfer to MobileMe in 2008 and is only being fixed in 2011. A nine year mistake? I don't buy that.

What I do buy is what Tallest Skil says about certain services being free to 1) encourage Aplpe HW sales, 2) strength the Apple ecosystem to keep people buying Apple HW, and 3) use some free services and then charge for a fuller paid service.

Find My iP*/Mac and Safari Reader are two things that I can see being free of charge. Others, I'm not so sure about.

Free email I'd say no because I think one of the problems with the whole .Mac/MobileMe setup is feels like it resolves around the email account. The biggest complaints seems to be "why should I pay $99/year for email when I already it get for free?" and "I don't want to change my email address." Plus, Apple is already tying people to iTunes Store/App Store with their own email addresses.

I also don't expect to see Apple offering @icloud.com email addresses. The @me.com is simpler. Let their cloud service stand on its own is the first thing Apple needs to do to get the cloud right, IMO.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #77 of 119
6/1/11 at 10:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Sokay. I was kinda making a lame joke anyway

Oh, so lame. I had opened that link on a new tab and came back a few minutes later really puzzled about why I had opened that. Second Life seems to have really improved since I last saw it about 8 years ago.
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post #78 of 119
6/1/11 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aiolos View Post

I hope they also co-announce the back-to-school promo. Then new Air's sometime soon.

New Air w/ Lion + free 8GB iTouch = winning

And don't forget your iTouch will have iOS 5 on it. Sounds like double-winning to me.
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post #79 of 119
6/1/11 at 11:05am
The main problem with MobileMe was that

1) it was late to the email game, when Gmail and Yahoo took up most of people's emails and virtually everyone was content to stay put.
2) It wasn't hard or inconvenient to use free services instead. Virtually everyone has Facebook to share photos with, and lots of people use Dropbox if they really have big files to send that they can't deliver in person. And Google started offering Exchange push syncing for your iPhone and Mac, so there wasn't much left for MobileMe to give. Besides the find iPhone feature, which was made free.
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post #80 of 119
6/1/11 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

Whether or not people have happy experiences with MobileMe syncing seems to be all in the luck of the if-then-else draw. I have seen terrifying data loss in every app, except iDisk which I find so slow I am never sure it's done before I pack up my Mac and leave. On another forum where I participate, not related to tech and therefore reasonably grown-up, someone mentioned losing some data and the whole forum seemed to chime in with further examples.

Eg in mail: I renamed a folder with 1,000+ emails in it. The folder disappeared, the new one appeared with no emails, over the next 30 minutes new emails reappeared, but not all, then later the old folder reappeared holding some of the old email, but the total number of remaining emails was less than the original. I have tons of these examples such as multiple drafts of sent emails lurking in Drafts but won't bore you, though I do envy you your working MobileMe.

When it does work, it is bad at maintaining data quality. Say you decide you want to make a custom tag for dates called 'expirydate'. You do it on the iPhone and next time you want to do the same, you click Custom and you see your previous custom tags and can choose the same one. But on OSX when you choose Custom, you *don't* see them, so you might enter "Expiry Date", which is not the same. Now you have a mess with two tags for the same thing and poor data quality. If you wanted to do something clever with searching or some AppleScript, it's broken. Same applies with country. Choose a country on the iPhone and the country is set. On OSX you can't choose a country, it's just text. Even if you type it exactly as on the iPhone it's just text. So if you enter Nicaragua in OSX and view it on the iPhone, it looks correct, but when you drill into the edit screen it's still set to the default USA. And when you try to map it, it often ends up showing Cupertino due to no matching address. Again, the examples go on and on.

You make good points. I have run into the latent drafts problem but it's not a big one. Some of the other things you mention sound serious but I haven't had them happen to me thankfully.

I suppose from my point of view, and improved MobileMe would fit the bill personally. I think Dropbox has put iDisk to shame. I am curious to see what Apple has in store because I just think this data centre they've built, and the others they plan to build, are overkill for some of the things people are expecting. I love the idea of an automatically synched documents folder per app so Pages can open any of your Pages documents anywhere, regardless of which device you choose to use at the time.

We'll see, it's only next week
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