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MAC Defender variant quickly thwarts Apple's Mac OS X security update - Page 3

post #81 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

exactly.. for people who do not know what the right decision is for them, don't care, or trust Apple to make the safe choice for them.. the default should be to only allow App from the App store unless this setting is explicitly changed by the user via aGUI toggle in "Settings"...

fair?

yep, it makes sense to have apple as the default supplier of everything. it will have no negatives at all.
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post #82 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Several years ago I implemented a strict no more Windows policy among family and friends that relied upon me for support. All current Windows-based systems were grandfathered in but all new PCs had to Macs. Despite ample moaning everyone is happy with the change.

2) I was in a UPS store today and the Win7 PC was so bogged down that IE took minute(s) to load a pages despite the internet being a commercial "high-speed connection. I had one PDF from Shure to print! I was going to offer my services for a free mail box since I'm a box holder but I was so frustrated with the experience that I'm only now remembering.

the "grandfathered in" part was hilarious.

I will actually help with support of both kinds of OS's on the Desktop/Laptop.




Mac OS X and Linux.
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post #83 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennywse View Post

If you're ignorant enough to install something on you computer that just 'pops up', then you deserve the outcome. What boggles my mind is how people get crap on their Macs ... YOU HAVE TO INSTALL IT! It's not like Window's where crap can seep through from many holes.

well yes, the problem is this: many users who use windows have learned to not take obvious scams/bad things to install like this, at least users who know what they are doing, there people then advise their friends/family on what to do on Windows, preventing a lot of this stuff... and, not very many holes in windows 7.

problem with a lot of people using OSX is that they are used to not having to be worried about security, etc.

before people flame this, lets put it this way.

out of 10 people using windows, maybe 1 understands it and understands whats not good to install. This person will tell many friends/family to watch for certain programs, or they will contact said person for advice of what to do. so maybe 5/10 people in the end don't have to deal with those problems

i would assume on the other hand, DUE to how OSX works, a much smaller percent (and 10% of windows was probably to many) less people are aware that this is an obvious attempt to get a program installed. This is due towards Apple talking about having no viruses probably. As well due to OSX easy of use, people don't consult family and friends who understand the tech very well.

so over probably 2-3/10 people don't fall for it, on OSX, vs 5/10 people on windows who do not fall for it.

these numbers are just examples. please don't flame, because this is just a probable thing that happens

PC means personal computer.  

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PC means personal computer.  

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if i say something confusing please tell me!

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post #84 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolbolas View Post

well yes, the problem is this: many users who use windows have learned to not take obvious scams/bad things to install like this, at least users who know what they are doing, there people then advise their friends/family on what to do on Windows, preventing a lot of this stuff... and, not very many holes in windows 7.

problem with a lot of people using OSX is that they are used to not having to be worried about security, etc.

before people flame this, lets put it this way.

out of 10 people using windows, maybe 1 understands it and understands whats not good to install. This person will tell many friends/family to watch for certain programs, or they will contact said person for advice of what to do. so maybe 5/10 people in the end don't have to deal with those problems

i would assume on the other hand, DUE to how OSX works, a much smaller percent (and 10% of windows was probably to many) less people are aware that this is an obvious attempt to get a program installed. This is due towards Apple talking about having no viruses probably. As well due to OSX easy of use, people don't consult family and friends who understand the tech very well.

so over probably 2-3/10 people don't fall for it, on OSX, vs 5/10 people on windows who do not fall for it.

these numbers are just examples. please don't flame, because this is just a probable thing that happens

I think there is some validity to what you are saying. However, I am not sure where you are going with this. Maybe I missed it. Could you clarify please?
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post #85 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

I think there is some validity to what you are saying. However, I am not sure where you are going with this. Maybe I missed it. Could you clarify please?

look at who i quoted

but also, to go further, Apple needs to start telling people that indeed OSX does get viruses, just it has 1 for every 100,000 than windows has

PC means personal computer.  

i have processing issues, mostly trying to get my ideas into speech and text.

if i say something confusing please tell me!

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PC means personal computer.  

i have processing issues, mostly trying to get my ideas into speech and text.

if i say something confusing please tell me!

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post #86 of 120

By your reasoning, neither is Apple.
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post #87 of 120
This is a dangerous cat and mouse game now.

Apple should have just tinkered with Safari to remove the Open Safe Files as the default.
post #88 of 120
IVK = troll. That's what the ignore list is for people. Use it and spare us reading his mindless blather in quoted text.
post #89 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That's a shortsighted and ignorant comment. Do you really expect people not to use PCs until they are experts at using PCs?

No, since most people don't want to know anything about running PC's. Which is why I think within the next five years iOS will be the dominant general purpose computing platform at choice for the non-techies. It's a no-brainer. General purpose OS's like Windows, Mac OSX and Linux have great power - and with that great responsibility.

They all have far more power than the vast majority of non-technical users need - and want.

Windows dominates home users not because it's necessarily what they want, but because there was no real alternative and it was familiar because it's probably what they used at work. With the iPhone, Apple has broken through that barrier and gotten exposure to people that would have never considered owning an Apple product previously. Laying the perfect groundwork for the iPad and whatever else they have up their sleeves.

I think it's telling that Apple developed the iPad first, but released the iPhone first.

If anything, Apple isn't a company known for doing things in a haphazard or accidental way.

And BTW, I think it's equally ridiculous to expect Windows, Mac OSX or Linux to disappear. There's plenty of room for both models of computing.
post #90 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

He's a lot like Jesse Owens.

That was TOO funny. Great play on words!
post #91 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenclaw View Post

This is a dangerous cat and mouse game now.

Apple should have just tinkered with Safari to remove the Open Safe Files as the default.


Apple should educate people on what NOT to install instead. Because uninformed people will download that file and double click it thinking their Mac actually need this AV software.
post #92 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Windows dominates home users not because it's necessarily what they want, but because there was no real alternative and it was familiar because it's probably what they used at work. With the iPhone, Apple has broken through that barrier and gotten exposure to people that would have never considered owning an Apple product previously. Laying the perfect groundwork for the iPad and whatever else they have up their sleeves.

I was presented with a gentlemen's bet today that MS' stock would out perform Apple's in the next 12 months. His reasoning was that Macs aren't as configurable and when he wants to play a video game on a 'PC' he can turn off processes and adjust drivers to suit his needs. He's one of my oldest friends, works for Fortune 500 company in IT, and has absolutely no idea what the average consumer does with a computer.

My mentioning of MS' apex position for the major products, Apple's growth in all major product categories, Activity Monitor in Mac OS allowing you to delete processes (or the silliness of having to in Windows), or his preference for playing games on mostly a console, iPad or iPhone(WwF) couldn't make him reconsider his position that MS was ripe to outperform Apple. I guess we shall see. Note, he's made a killing off my AAPL recommendations years ago.
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post #93 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by blecch View Post

Windows actually does have some good features (browser sandboxing) which OS X should implement (actually OS X supports sandboxing, but only Chrome uses it at the moment.) I believe that Windows also introduced ASLR (which it still does better), signed executables, and no-execute permission for data pages before OS X did.

On the other hand, OS X (and iOS, Linux, Android, etc.) never had things like the Windows Registry or ActiveX, which have been major sources of security issues.

OS X was also way ahead of Windows for many years in terms of limiting the open network ports in a fresh install of the OS. Installing Windows 2000 or XP while directly connected to the internet (i.e. not behind a firewall) was a recipe for disaster. For that matter, buying a new XP laptop and connecting it to the internet was also a recipe for disaster. Basically you need to connect from behind a firewall and get all of the Windows updates before it's safe to connect to the actual internet.

Cookie jacking exploits.

Windows is STILL vulnerable to worse than MACDefender, even with IE9.
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post #94 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by enjourni View Post

lol. Your "insecure deployment platform" is also called the internet, which relies on downloading to do anything for anyone. Web pages? Downloaded. Email? Downloaded. Chat? Downloaded. Draconian security measures like locking out the entire internet are what they do in China. Here, I actually want to be able to run what I download.

What an ignorant statement and a real indication of why "computer science" in general is such a joke. Unfortunately your's is a common sentiment. Rather than throwing your hands up in despair, or trying to secure all content, how about looking for companies that design systems that are inherently secure due to diligent design decisions?

That's what iOS is.

Quote:
And if you think the App Store keeps you safe, wait till hackers create poisoned apps that after you install bypass app store restrictions.

And as soon as they do, Apple pulls them and also recalls them from users phones. Yup, just like Google has, Apple has the ability to remove apps in just such a situation from users phones.

Unlike Google, Apple charges a nominal fee for developers to access the App store and also does some cursory vetting of said apps. Yes, someone could probably create malware for iOS, but there is a cost associated with each app created - and it's non trivial since you have to set up a new account which means a fake credit card, email, etc. plus the $100 fee which will add up quickly because, again, once detected the app can be removed not only from the store but from the entire ecosystem.

This is where the cost/benefit for malware on iOS will be incredibly steep compared to Windows or Mac OSX. The entire iOS ecosystem is inherently unfriendly to the traditional malware that is overwhelming Windows and knocking at the gates of Mac OSX.

Quote:
You are "saved" by using your mind and THINKING before you install something, not by apple putting you behind a walled garden.

And that's where you are wrong. Curation will win over "open" since not everyone can afford (nor desires) to be an expert in everything. As I outlined above, Apple's iOS ecosystem (walled garden as you try to label it derisively) is inherently malware resistant, and if it is proffered, it can be effectively removed from the iOS ecosystem as a whole.
post #95 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

By your reasoning, neither is Apple.

Please point out where I was blaming Apple for this...You specifically mentioned Google and google alone in causing this. I was merely pointing out that any major search engine is as vulnerable. I am specifically laying the blame on the end user.

EVERY OS is only as secure as the user is intelligent.

The most secure OS isn't going to do anything if the user has no clue what they are doing.
post #96 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolbolas View Post

look at who i quoted

but also, to go further, Apple needs to start telling people that indeed OSX does get viruses, just it has 1 for every 100,000 than windows has

so let me get this straight. You are saying Mac OS X users are more vulnerable to catching viruses then Windows users because they trust their OS environment more than Windows users?

Is this like saying married individual is more vulnerable to catching STDs then an unmarried person because they trust their sexual partner(s) more?

If so then yes, I agree, Mac OS X are more vulnerable due to this trusting relationship. However, don't confuse vulnerability with likelihood of infection. Even when Windows users run a Virus scanner (i.e. STD condom) they are still more LIKELY to get infected then Mac user.

Also having Apple stand on the roof top saying there is a slim chance you could get infected is not going to serve any great purpose. IMHO. Just like having the CDC tell you about the dangers of having unprotected sex with your spouse.

I would prefer that Apple keep their house in order with a walled garden approach then update the OS to support virus/trojan scanner. Virus/Trojan scanner is a losing proposition long term. Its a cat and mouse game than never ends and just effectively makes your computer spend all its time doing Virus/Trojan projection instead of actually allowing the user to get something accomplished, fully utilizing available CPU cycles.

Besides, I personally prefer unprotected sex with someone I trust.
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post #97 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

What an ignorant statement and a real indication of why "computer science" in general is such a joke. Unfortunately your's is a common sentiment. Rather than throwing your hands up in despair, or trying to secure all content, how about looking for companies that design systems that are inherently secure due to diligent design decisions?

That's what iOS is.



And as soon as they do, Apple pulls them and also recalls them from users phones. Yup, just like Google has, Apple has the ability to remove apps in just such a situation from users phones.

Unlike Google, Apple charges a nominal fee for developers to access the App store and also does some cursory vetting of said apps. Yes, someone could probably create malware for iOS, but there is a cost associated with each app created - and it's non trivial since you have to set up a new account which means a fake credit card, email, etc. plus the $100 fee which will add up quickly because, again, once detected the app can be removed not only from the store but from the entire ecosystem.

This is where the cost/benefit for malware on iOS will be incredibly steep compared to Windows or Mac OSX. The entire iOS ecosystem is inherently unfriendly to the traditional malware that is overwhelming Windows and knocking at the gates of Mac OSX.



And that's where you are wrong. Curation will win over "open" since not everyone can afford (nor desires) to be an expert in everything. As I outlined above, Apple's iOS ecosystem (walled garden as you try to label it derisively) is inherently malware resistant, and if it is proffered, it can be effectively removed from the iOS ecosystem as a whole.

DocNo42 thank you for taking the time to articulate this. well done.
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post #98 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

Is this like saying married individual is more vulnerable to catching STDs then an unmarried person because they trust their sexual partner(s) more?

Great analogy.
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post #99 of 120
Thank you evil hackers for proving my point (and user PXT's various posts) on the other thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

A couple of things I thing Apple should have done differently here.

(1) The malware definitions list should be streamed into OSX from Apple as a data update not requiring an OS update.

(2) Uninstalling apps, including stopping all its processes, should be a single button click as is its installation, and therefore should also not require an OS update. This way Apple support *would* be able to tell people how to get rid of it plus already-infected users can have a little window pop-up saying that they have downloaded some malware from the blacklist and may we click the delete button for you.

There are no novice users; they are customers.

Yeah I don't understand. How would one scan their computer for it if they have downloaded it? This appears to just check upon download. What if you already have it? How do you know if you have it? I don't, but switchers from Windows will be wondering about all of the above.

Repeat, HOW DO I SCAN FOR MALWARE ON THE MAC?

Edit: I suppose one can try http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/viru...move-mac-guard, the removal script/app that you download is considered "Safe"

WE ARE IN A BOLD NEW WORLD OF MAC ANTIVIRUS. Welcome.

Apple says "In the coming days, Apple will deliver a Mac OS X software update that will automatically find and remove Mac Defender malware and its known variants." http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4650

But there is no notification upon installing the software update that it scanned anything... Like I said, new users, ie. customers as someone pointed out, will be confused.
post #100 of 120
Why oh why can't Apple just not "be different" and bite the bullet on this one. Just have the OS X security update actually SCAN the bloody Mac, let you know what it has or hasn't found, and let you know WHEN it updated the latest malware definitions. And guess what, sorry, but your Mac will have to frequently (ie. daily) check for definitions and scan the Mac.

It was only a matter of time before the malicious hackers targeted the Mac and the time has come for Apple to mosey on up to the plate and "do" antivirus.
post #101 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I was presented with a gentlemen's bet today that MS' stock would out perform Apple's in the next 12 months. His reasoning was that Macs aren't as configurable and when he wants to play a video game on a 'PC' he can turn off processes and adjust drivers to suit his needs. He's one of my oldest friends, works for Fortune 500 company in IT, and has absolutely no idea what the average consumer does with a computer.

My mentioning of MS' apex position for the major products, Apple's growth in all major product categories, Activity Monitor in Mac OS allowing you to delete processes (or the silliness of having to in Windows), or his preference for playing games on mostly a console, iPad or iPhone(WwF) couldn't make him reconsider his position that MS was ripe to outperform Apple. I guess we shall see. Note, he's made a killing off my AAPL recommendations years ago.

My goodness. The only thing preventing me from taking my Windows "gaming" PC and throwing it out the window is:

1. Even my two-year-old (mid-end at the time) GPU on my PC is still better than Xbox360 graphics
2. Xbox360 is not available officially in my country right now for whatever insane reason
3. PS3 has absolutely hideous graphics
4. My 21" screen has no HDMI
5. That is all

I can tell you there are definitely times when games crash on my PC, drivers don't work and cause gaming glitches, where I've been really close to just giving up and getting a grey-market Xbox360. I've been real close.

Not to mention all the poor PC porting jobs the big game publishers have done. The PC is such an afterthought in their grand scheme of things. And running an AMD CPU as well, there's been a few cases of lagginess because most of the PC "development" is done on Intel quad-core machines. Not that the horsepower is needed, it's just glitches or poor threading, etc. where they just assume every PC gamer has a quad-core *Intel* CPU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snova

Besides, I personally prefer unprotected sex with someone I trust.

Good for you. I'm nowhere near trusting anyone that much. A lot of things can go wrong with contraceptive pills and so on. Then again, I've never been in a long-term relationship. May be related to the trust issue. *DING* *LIGHT BULB* So that's what I've been doing wrong!

"Honey, why do you always rub me down with alcohol wipes before we get nasty?"
post #102 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

Sounds like that PC might have some issues; I have an AMD based gaming rig that I've been using for the past 2 years, and its been pretty rock solid. I have to agree with you on the crappy console ports though. Its unfortunate, but you really can't blame them. The fact that the masses will happily pre-order a $60 game before even trying it doesn't help the situation either.

What CPU exactly are you using? Quad core? Nvidia card?

Yeah I don't get the pre-ordering. I usually wait for reviews, even better, discounts on Steam. Starcraft2 was excellent, Portal2 was satisfying, as was DeadSpace2 (though quite disturbing)... NFS:Shift was poor, NFS:Hot Pursuit fairly trashy. I'll pass on Brink and Space Marine. Not too sure about Crysis2. Next up is Duke Nukem... Yes I'll be a sucker for that one just for nostalgia's sake even though it could be crap. But like I said, I might wait for some reviews. I hope Deus Ex lives up to at least most of it's hype.
post #103 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

so let me get this straight. You are saying Mac OS X users are more vulnerable to catching viruses then Windows users because they trust their OS environment more than Windows users?

sorry, looks like i forgot to ad, of all people that get the prompt, more * percent* of people who us OSX are likely to blindly push yes to install.

thanks for catching that

PC means personal computer.  

i have processing issues, mostly trying to get my ideas into speech and text.

if i say something confusing please tell me!

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PC means personal computer.  

i have processing issues, mostly trying to get my ideas into speech and text.

if i say something confusing please tell me!

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post #104 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by IVK View Post

Do you have selective reading? Even if an vulnerability isn't exploited, Apple still leaves it open and slowly patches these problems. Stop being so defensive about Apple, it's healthy to admit they could take security more seriously. For a company that claims to have the most "secure operating system" they really don't if you look at the whole picture. Is that hard to comprehend?

I agree that everyone should take security more seriously. My point was to question the authority of the assumption that the only reason that Macs don't have the same problems PCs do is that there are fewer of them. You don't object to questioning authority do you? I think we should always question our assumptions.
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post #105 of 120
Soooo....Apple used to be defined as better as it had better hardware (PPC)....but then with the switch to Intel it's now the same HW as PC's. Then they were defined as better because they didn't get viruses.....but now they do. Then they were defined as better because OS X offered a better experience. Perhaps for now. Although if I had a nickel for everytime Safari crashed... And Lion looks like another sub par release that will take 9 point upgrades to be what it should have been on the day of release.
post #106 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

I agree that everyone should take security more seriously. My point was to question the authority of the assumption that the only reason that Macs don't have the same problems PCs do is that there are fewer of them. You don't object to questioning authority do you? I think we should always question our assumptions.


There was a paper written back in 2008 that predicted Mac malware would start appearing once Apple's OS had 16% marketshare (or thereabouts). Eerily accurate with those market percentages just recently being realized in a few countries.

http://www.securitymetrics.org/conte....0/j3attAO.pdf

Also a good read, from two years ago:
http://db.tidbits.com/article/10321
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post #107 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

Soooo....Apple used to be defined as better as it had better hardware (PPC)....but then with the switch to Intel it's now the same HW as PC's. Then they were defined as better because they didn't get viruses.....but now they do. Then they were defined as better because OS X offered a better experience. Perhaps for now. Although if I had a nickel for everytime Safari crashed... And Lion looks like another sub par release that will take 9 point upgrades to be what it should have been on the day of release.

Hold up.

Does having the same CPU as your competitors make the HW equal? I personally don't think individual components define great HW. Great HW is the sum of its parts, the level of integration and the overall industrial design. For example, A Toyota Camry engine in a Lotus Evora sportscar, is not the same thing as a Toyota Camera family car.

The Mac is not better because it does not get virus. The Mac is better because the LIKELIHOOD of getting one is so small compared to a PC.

I am not sure what is up with your Mac OS X installation or if it is just me. However, my experience is quite different from yours. I use Safari all day long with dozens of tabs open and I don't honestly recall Safari ever crashing on me. Then again, to be fair, I have a flash blocker and Ad Block enabled to allow me to manage what content is rendered by Safari. I don't know if this difference from stock has anything to do with the issues you are experiencing. Perhaps other who run stock Safari can share their experience.

Not sure I am following your insight into why Lion will be a sub par release. However, I can tell you this. In this industry credibility means a lot. It is hard to build up and its is very easy to lose with sub-par product releases. Apple understands this and thus has a very good record. I cant say that about some of its competitors.

So the question to you is.. what would motivate Apple to risk its credibility and good record of producing solid products by releasing a sub par Lion release? Is it the imminent threat from competition like Windows 8?
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post #108 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

Then they were defined as better because they didn't get viruses.....but now they do.

Really? OS X gets viruses? What are they?
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post #109 of 120
Ed Bott does behave like a sore luser.
post #110 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

There was a paper written back in 2008 that predicted Mac malware would start appearing once Apple's OS had 16% marketshare (or thereabouts). Eerily accurate with those market percentages just recently being realized in a few countries.

"Eerily accurate" to you only. You seem to have an annoying habit of providing links or figures that are... interesting... but stretch the truth somewhat. ie. Eerily inaccurate.

Can you name even one country with a Mac installed base of 16% ?
post #111 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

"Eerily accurate" to you only. You seem to have an annoying habit of providing links or figures that are... interesting... but stretch the truth somewhat. ie. Eerily inaccurate.

Can you name even one country with a Mac installed base of 16% ?

Yup. Switzerland with over 17%. . .

followed by Luxembourg with 15.8, the US with 15.4 and Iceland with 15.2. All three of the latter meet my "thereabouts", which also still meets the figures mentioned in the linked article. With a quick Google search you could have found those yourself Piot.

Not the first time you've made accusations with nothing to back them up. But I'm sure you mean well.
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post #112 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

There was a paper written back in 2008 that predicted Mac malware would start appearing once Apple's OS had 16% marketshare (or thereabouts). Eerily accurate with those market percentages just recently being realized in a few countries.

http://www.securitymetrics.org/conte....0/j3attAO.pdf

Also a good read, from two years ago:
http://db.tidbits.com/article/10321

So there was a paper written AFTER malware existed on Mac OS that claims malware will start appearing on Mac OS? That's a Nostradumbass

Here is one example (I only need one): OSX.RSPlug.A Trojan Horse, circa 2007.

I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you really believe half the stuff you write but in case it's the latter you should realize that 1) all computers viruses are malware but not all malware are virus (in fact most aren't), 2) Apple's been fighting malware since the 70s, 3) the biggest change to Mac OS' radar the mindshare causing the "sky to fall" just like it did over the external antennae and consolidated.db when others with much larger marketshare get to skate on by.
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post #113 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennywse View Post

If you're ignorant enough to install something on you computer that just 'pops up', then you deserve the outcome. What boggles my mind is how people get crap on their Macs ... YOU HAVE TO INSTALL IT! It's not like Window's where crap can seep through from many holes.

Don't EVER install anything you didn't initiate and all is good in the world of Mac.

Its not that they're ignorant, they just believe the endless claims of "you'll never ever never never never get a virus or spyware"
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #114 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So there was a paper written AFTER malware existed on Mac OS that claims malware will start appearing on Mac OS? That's a Nostradumbass

Here is one example (I only need one): OSX.RSPlug.A Trojan Horse, circa 2007.

I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you really believe half the stuff you write but in case it's the latter you should realize that 1) all computers viruses are malware but not all malware are virus (in fact most aren't), 2) Apple's been fighting malware since the 70s, 3) the biggest change to Mac OS' radar the mindshare causing the "sky to fall" just like it did over the external antennae and consolidated.db when others with much larger marketshare get to skate on by.

Surprised to see that from you Solipsism. Where did I mention viruses? And why imply I don't know about hair of the dog logic? Not all malware is a virus? Really? I didn't write either of the articles. In fact I saw the first one featured in an article at a Mac site a couple weeks ago. Perhaps they were trolling as well.

http://mobile.macworld.co.uk/mac/new...newsid=3279373
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post #115 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I was presented with a gentlemen's bet today that MS' stock would out perform Apple's in the next 12 months.

Works in IT? Typical. I hope you took that bet.

I made a similar one with a friend who bet me his 100 shares of HP were set to pop last December. I bet him I'll make more money on a single share of AAPL. On that day HPQ was $42.70 and AAPL, $307. The bet was loser pays the difference 6 months later. He thought it would be the easiest money he'd ever make. I knew it would be like taking candy from a baby.

OK, so I only made $40 on my single lousy share. Meanwhile, he's lost $628 Which will be over $1250... once he pays me (I'm not holding my breath).

Edit, I forgot HP pays dividends. So he's only lost $620

Making money on AAPL is easier than making toast.
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post #116 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Yup. Switzerland with over 17%. . .

followed by Luxembourg with 15.8, the US with 15.4 and Iceland with 15.2. All three of the latter meet my "thereabouts", which also still meets the figures mentioned in the linked article. With a quick Google search you could have found those yourself Piot.

The problem with your "quick Google search" is that you have failed (not for the first time) to understand or properly interpret the results. Web site stats is NOT the same as installed base.

Quote:
Not the first time you've made accusations with nothing to back them up. But I'm sure you mean well.

You're the one making the (frequent) claims "backed up" by unrelated links and vague figures. I am not the only person who has noticed this.

Do I "mean well"? No, not really.
post #117 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brometheus View Post

There are plenty of people with lots of common sense who get all flustered and make the wrong choice when computers are involved. I know many older people who are quite wise, and just want to use their computer for a few basic tasks like reading email, web browsing, and shopping a bit. When they encounter a PayPal phishing scam they sometimes fail to realize what's happening and make a mistake. Most of us geeks can recognize a phishing scam, but that doesn't mean that a less experienced person lacks common sense or is an idiot.

In any case, even people who are not smart don't deserve to be taken advantage of. I see so many posts that begin with "if you're stupid enough to...then you deserve..." People who can't see a problem with that attitude may lack a moral compass.

++++1 Well said, I'll add that I'll take Apple's garden any day!
post #118 of 120
Exactly Brometheus... It has just happened to my very wise father, and with 40year experience with computer, just recently retired and who purchased a fancy iMac last year, but....:
It seems to have got infected not my MacDefender, but by a fake MacKeeper!! He was reading a newspaper online and suddenly this window popped-up about Mackeeper, that it had issues, etc... and the only way to get rid of the window was to click OK, so he did, unfortunately and downloaded it and installed it... He looked online before installing it about it and there seem to be a lot of good feedback from people, although I had told him weeks ago that he didn't need it. Nothing seems to have broken or anything, but I have panicked about it, as I have read that there is a dangerous Fake MacKeeper too, phishing virus, etc... and we have tried lots of different options that I have found on the web and NOTHING!! CAN'T GET RID OFF THE BLOODY THING!! can't drag the application icon to the Trash, can't terminate (force Quit)its processes on Activity Monitor and when you do, when there were only 4 subprocesses, now there are 5, etc...
So, I have asked him to download the free antivirus Clamxav for now and run it and see what it says...

I keep reading that the real MAcKeeper is a pain to remove too anyway, so I still don't have proof that it is a fake virus version or the real one, a version trial or something.... Any input?

Any thoughts everybody??? Please, I am desperate (and my dad even more.... At moment, the iMac is off, in case it starts damaging it... before we can get more help)
post #119 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericvet8b View Post

Exactly Brometheus... It has just happened to my very wise father, and with 40year experience with computer, just recently retired and who purchased a fancy iMac last year, but....:
It seems to have got infected not my MacDefender, but by a fake MacKeeper!! He was reading a newspaper online and suddenly this window popped-up about Mackeeper, that it had issues, etc... and the only way to get rid of the window was to click OK, so he did, unfortunately and downloaded it and installed it... He looked online before installing it about it and there seem to be a lot of good feedback from people, although I had told him weeks ago that he didn't need it. Nothing seems to have broken or anything, but I have panicked about it, as I have read that there is a dangerous Fake MacKeeper too, phishing virus, etc... and we have tried lots of different options that I have found on the web and NOTHING!! CAN'T GET RID OFF THE BLOODY THING!! can't drag the application icon to the Trash, can't terminate (force Quit)its processes on Activity Monitor and when you do, when there were only 4 subprocesses, now there are 5, etc...
So, I have asked him to download the free antivirus Clamxav for now and run it and see what it says...

I keep reading that the real MAcKeeper is a pain to remove too anyway, so I still don't have proof that it is a fake virus version or the real one, a version trial or something.... Any input?

Any thoughts everybody??? Please, I am desperate (and my dad even more.... At moment, the iMac is off, in case it starts damaging it... before we can get more help)

/Applications/MacProtector.app/Contents/MacOS
/Applications/MacProtector.app/Contents
/Applications/MacProtector.app/Contents/MacOS/MacProtector
/Applications/MacProtector.app/Contents/Info.plist
/Applications/MacProtector.app/Contents/PkgInfo
/Applications/MacProtector.app/Contents/Resources
/Applications/MacProtector.app/Contents/Resources/AboutMBMI.png
/Applications/MacProtector.app/Contents/Resources/affid.txt
/Applications/MacProtector.app/Contents/Resources/About-Back.png
/Applications/MacProtector.app/Contents/Resources/ControlCenterD.nib
/Applications/MacProtector.app/Contents/Resources/AboutD.nib

They all look to be in equivalent areas. Manual removal would simply consist of deleting above files. If for some reason you happen to fail, the chances that your mac will be damaged in the process of the malware repairing will be VERY high.

The only I can tell you otherwise as a friendly tip, is that killing processes almost never works.
post #120 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

The problem with your "quick Google search" is that you have failed (not for the first time) to understand or properly interpret the results. Web site stats is NOT the same as installed base.

I wonder what stats MacWorld, CultofMac, PCWorld and a couple of others relied on to make the same connection? Looks like I'm in pretty good company if we all did the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

You're the one making the (frequent) claims "backed up" by unrelated links and vague figures. I am not the only person who has noticed this.

Frequent unrelated links? Then it should be quick and easy for you to show a few examples.
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