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Adobe CEO downplays Flash, iOS feud, says Android tablets will dominate iPad - Page 2

post #41 of 136
6/3/11 at 2:22am
I want some of what he's smoking!!!
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post #42 of 136
6/3/11 at 2:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

While I agree that Apple will be in a strong position for the foreseeable future.... I must correct one thing...

The iPhone is on 200 carriers around the globe. If the iPhone was on Verizon or even Sprint and T-Mobile for the past couple of years in the US... it probably wouldn't have made that much difference overall.

The iPhone is already on multiple carriers in many countries... and in many cases Android phones overall beat iPhone sales.

But I don't really think that hurts Apple... especially if you read my previous comment 2 up from this one...

Well at least here in Malaysia, part of the problem with getting an iPhone, is that it's only directly from the telco's who have it, and its not subsidized by much (it's about USB 600 on the plan about 700 without), and during the 1st 3 months of availability it was only possible to get on the wait list (2-3 week wait) if you were willing to sign on for a new iPhone plan. We also have a preference here of getting phones out of contract and getting our calling plans separately.
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post #43 of 136
6/3/11 at 3:08am
One of the things that still REALLY bothers me is that the BBC News website still uses flash for embedded videos in their articles. These videos are using the iPlayer technology which we know has a non-flash browser version which runs on iOS. So why won't BBC make the very simple change to their articles to detect whether flash is installed on the device, and if not present the alternative version of the video?

This is the only site which I use on a day to day basis which still heavily depends on flash for some of it's content. I have the iOS BBC News app on both iPad and iPhone, but I just prefer the website as I use the "Most Read" all the time, and that isn't in the apps.
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post #44 of 136
6/3/11 at 3:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightstriker View Post

Flash is why Terrorists hate America.

No, that's the love for Israel.
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post #45 of 136
6/3/11 at 3:40am
interesting. where i'm currently contracting, the company has determined all their clients are getting ipads and have put flash projects on hold and investigating how they can port them to html.
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post #46 of 136
6/3/11 at 3:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Users are sheep and just want to watch the video or play the game. They don't really care about the format they just want the end product.

It's the developers that will decide on Flash. If they can find a tool that let's them do what they need to without flash they'll use it because the mobile market will be large enough that this makes sense.

I think it's unlikely that Flash will completely die out, even if it does, it will be many years before this happens. Adobe dominates the market with their graphics and web design application, so it's easy for them to integrate Flash with these applications. Game is another one top reason developers won't completely quit using Flash. HTML5 can do well pretty much in everything, but so far the only games I've seen done with HTML5 are really basic and isn't anywhere near as good as Flash games.
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post #47 of 136
6/3/11 at 4:22am
Narayen is truly awful. He claims that the feud is over by lying about the nature of Apple's complaint about Flash, in effect calling Jobs a liar. That is not ending a feud, it is making sure it blazes more strongly.

The trouble with capitalism is the role, incompetence and insane salaries of CEO's. They are ruining perfectly good companies. Marx didn't foresee this problem and no new Marx has been born to show the way out.
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AppleInsider = Apple-in-cider. It's a joke!

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post #48 of 136
6/3/11 at 4:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

That's exactly right.

And here's the funny part... last quarter Apple was selling an average of 200,000 iPhones every day. That's ONE company.

Android's latest numbers are 400,000 every day... but that's from 50+ phones spread out over a dozen manufacturers.

The truth is... Apple is actually doing better than each of the Android manufacturers. Those manufacturers would KILL for Apple's numbers.

Sure... if you combine all the Android manufacturers together... of course Android's numbers will be higher.

But... HP doesn't combine their numbers will Dell when they give their results for computers... so why would you combine Samsung, HTC, LG and Motorola for phones? Those companies are bitter enemies.

Example... If Samsung has a great quarter and sells a tons of phones.... you don't hear Motorola piggybacking on that announcement saying "yay! we sell Android phones too! Team Android... go us!"

The only way it makes sense is if you say "Google's Android OS" is on X number of phones sold. But, that's not a correct comparison either... because Google doesn't sell phones...

Apple does. And Samsung, HTC, LG and Motorola each sell phones too.

I agree. The whole 'Android is winning" is simply coming from Apple haters and they cling to whatever statistic makes them feel good. They had to move to loving Android after Microsoft embarrassed them so badly with all its recent failures. They had nothing else to cling to other than Flash which suddenly became the 'second front' after Android.

We Apple fans all simply need to stop quoting Mac, iPad or iPhone sales and talk about Apple OS (iOS and OS X) numbers out there. The total number is pretty impressive. Then throw in the profitability numbers for all Apple OS products and finish of with a few little things like Apple's worth, retails stores, YOY growth and oh, how about customer satisfaction? ... Oh I now see why Apple haters are in such a state ... LOL
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #49 of 136
6/3/11 at 4:38am
Soon, but how soon remains to be seen.

Flash will be a "Flash in the pan"!

The reality is simply technology changes, and along with it, many parts and pieces, and Flash is just one of those pieces.

Hell HTML5 will likely be replace. By what, from who - who knows, but they will both be replaced.

Hell the iPhone, iPad, iPod won't be the next big thing as they are already here. It's evolution - shit happens. We all use to be fine living in the current time, but now, many of us, expect and want "The latest and great NEXT thing now. Which means, it's not the latest and greatest things, because the NEXT thing, is in fact, the latest and greatest.

I for one, would LOVE to have the world and technology slow down for just a bit please. NONE of us, fully use the capabilities of any of our toys right now, yet we want them to go fasters, do more, use less energy, do better, cheaper, cleaner and better then the other guys.

But hey, we should all enjoy it while we can. Because it and we, won't be around for ever.


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post #50 of 136
6/3/11 at 4:39am
Still waiting for an HTML5 authoring tool that offers what Flash does.

Still waiting for a way to display DRM protected HTML5 video.

Still waiting for HTML5 consistency across browsers and devices.

Until then, Flash is the only way you can achieve these things. Web developers won't be ditching it any time soon.

(And that's why I'd rather have the CHOICE of having Flash, rather than nothing at all)
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post #51 of 136
6/3/11 at 5:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post

Still waiting for an HTML5 authoring tool that offers what Flash does.

Still waiting for a way to display DRM protected HTML5 video.

Still waiting for HTML5 consistency across browsers and devices.

Until then, Flash is the only way you can achieve these things. Web developers won't be ditching it any time soon.

(And that's why I'd rather have the CHOICE of having Flash, rather than nothing at all)

The solutions to all you mention are a bit too slow in coming I agree, never the less the best way to force the development is to remove the crutches and try to stand without Flash, painful as it may be for a while.

I for one wish Apple would come out with an iWeb type application that at least did some HTML5 authoring to show the way as they did with Mac Paint and Mac Draw when a GUI was so new. Back then DOS was hailed for having all the answers and something as dramatically different as a GUI wouldn't have got far without Apple's own set of products to pave the way for the likes of Adobe and Aldus.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #52 of 136
6/3/11 at 5:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Granted HTML5 is taking off a bit slow the fact is it's growing and it doesn't require using the software from Adobe or any other corporation.

Adobe's CEO seems to think that Android phones and tablets will somehow be the savior of Flash when in fact the real danger is HTML5 and other tech that doesn't require expensive software to leverage becoming the standard.

No one is excited about Flash ...it's kind of the incumbent technology that's waiting to get put out to pasture once the young plucky stalwart comes to take the throne.

I'm seeing Silverlight have a better longevity than Flash at this point. It's used with success on WP7 and for Netflix streaming on Windows and Mac OS.
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #53 of 136
6/3/11 at 5:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

Moto is on its 2nd tablet in 4 months. Now multiply that by 200 OEMS and you'll eventually have a glut of tablets on the market going for $50.00 You know damn well this xmas them crap tablets running Android 2.1 will be big a$$ doorbusters at Wall mart on black Friday.

Ramping up for Christmas starts in March-May period. Parts are on order and I am not reading that anyone is ramping up big enough to supply the likes of Walmart or a Best Buy consumer electronics chain. Christmas is put to bed by June by major retailers - as they demand delivery with severe penalties for those who don't supply orders.. Lastly, test marketing of tablets by major retailers is a must do before they will be offered large orders - and the orders they do place will be GUARANTEED SALE until such time they prove themselves. Now, who will qualify besides HP to meet this criteria on large quantities? Samsung is capable but missing key ingredients. The problem with HP is that they are late to the game already for this years Christmas. While they may be able to pull off some recognition if their tablet has what it takes to sell through, there is no evidence of that yet. The fact is that competitors are still working on basic requirements that the ipad has fully entrenched in a viable business model. I believe that Apple could sell even more ipads if there is at least one viable competitor drawing even more attention to the category. But that is not the case at retail at all right now. World distribution will not embrace a competitor unless it can sell through. Android is not a likely single competitor, and instead is a fragmented large group of products that have no marketing in common that is needed at retail right now. So, I will place my bet on HP to come up with an alternative and a software package that begins to meet some of the requirements that the ipad enjoys as standards to meet of beat. But I wouldn't invest in HP on that bet, as they will not be able to make any money on their entry this year - the cost of entry has gone way way up and they are already late to the game for 2011. Advertising alone will eat all the profit out of a new entry for this Christmas season. Retailers like Best Buy and Walmart will make sure of that. Supply is going to be a big challenge for a new entry to ramp up a big order if they can even get one - it should already be a done deal for Christmas. And distribution should already be in place if they want this Christmas to be big for their entry in the tablet market. The world economy won't take chances on a new entry right now in a big way without 100% guarantees and big bucks in advertising as part of a buy-in by the retailer.. Retailers are going to go with one good product that has all its selling points tweaked like the ipad does. they have better things to do than nurse the failures that we have seen to date through their stores to end users. Your 200 OEM's can't scratch the surface of what it takes at this moment in time to satisfy the needs of major retailers like Walmart or a Best Buy.
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post #54 of 136
6/3/11 at 5:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmann View Post

Ramping up for Christmas starts in March-May period. Parts are on order and I am not reading that anyone is ramping up big enough to supply the likes of Walmart or a Best Buy consumer electronics chain. Christmas is put to bed by June by major retailers - as they demand delivery with severe penalties for those who don't supply orders.. Lastly, test marketing of tablets by major retailers is a must do before they will be offered large orders - and the orders they do place will be GUARANTEED SALE until such time they prove themselves. Now, who will qualify besides HP to meet this criteria on large quantities? Samsung is capable but missing key ingredients. The problem with HP is that they are late to the game already for this years Christmas. While they may be able to pull off some recognition if their tablet has what it takes to sell through, there is no evidence of that yet. The fact is that competitors are still working on basic requirements that the ipad has fully entrenched in a viable business model. I believe that Apple could sell even more ipads if there is at least one viable competitor drawing even more attention to the category. But that is not the case at retail at all right now. World distribution will not embrace a competitor unless it can sell through. Android is not a likely single competitor, and instead is a fragmented large group of products that have no marketing in common that is needed at retail right now. So, I will place my bet on HP to come up with an alternative and a software package that begins to meet some of the requirements that the ipad enjoys as standards to meet of beat. But I wouldn't invest in HP on that bet, as they will not be able to make any money on their entry this year - the cost of entry has gone way way up and they are already late to the game for 2011. Advertising alone will eat all the profit out of a new entry for this Christmas season. Retailers like Best Buy and Walmart will make sure of that. Supply is going to be a big challenge for a new entry to ramp up a big order if they can even get one - it should already be a done deal for Christmas. And distribution should already be in place if they want this Christmas to be big for their entry in the tablet market. The world economy won't take chances on a new entry right now in a big way without 100% guarantees and big bucks in advertising as part of a buy-in by the retailer.. Retailers are going to go with one good product that has all its selling points tweaked like the ipad does. they have better things to do than nurse the failures that we have seen to date through their stores to end users. Your 200 OEM's can't scratch the surface of what it takes at this moment in time to satisfy the needs of major retailers like Walmart or a Best Buy.

That is not correct.

Read the story just a few days ago about build plans for the other tablet manufacturers. The estimate was that Apple would build 38 M iPads and the competitors combined would build 35 M tablets. there were a number of vendors in the multi-million unit range. That's plenty to stock even a Best Buy or Walmart (or both).

Those tablets are not available yet, but since you're talking about Christmas, there's plenty of time to have them on the shelves by November.
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post #55 of 136
6/3/11 at 5:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post

Still waiting for an HTML5 authoring tool that offers what Flash does.

Take a look at this: http://tumultco.com/hype/

Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post

Still waiting for a way to display DRM protected HTML5 video.

HTML5 video doesnt exist, the HTML5 got video tag but the video it self can be any format with any DRM which the OS (Quicktime on Mac or WMV on Windows) can decode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post

Still waiting for HTML5 consistency across browsers and devices.

Webkit is the new standard, Chrome, Safari and most of Mobile browser is based on Webkit, so HTML5 is pretty as much consistent as Flash can be on all platform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post

Until then, Flash is the only way you can achieve these things. Web developers won't be ditching it any time soon.

(And that's why I'd rather have the CHOICE of having Flash, rather than nothing at all)

Flash is a fast lane to animation and interactivity, but most of so called flash developer i've meet was awful programmer and awful designer. Most of flash we see on the web are ads and I more than happy without Flash on my computer and iOS device.
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post #56 of 136
6/3/11 at 5:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadbean View Post

Exactly what would you expect the Adobe CEO to say?

Sorry, for all the Acrobat and Flash security holes.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #57 of 136
6/3/11 at 6:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Granted HTML5 is taking off a bit slow the fact is it's growing and it doesn't require using the software from Adobe or any other corporation.

Adobe's CEO seems to think that Android phones and tablets will somehow be the savior of Flash when in fact the real danger is HTML5 and other tech that doesn't require expensive software to leverage becoming the standard.

No one is excited about Flash ...it's kind of the incumbent technology that's waiting to get put out to pasture once the young plucky stalwart comes to take the throne.

It is not matter of excitement - Flash is around for so long to make anyone excited any more. It is matter of practicality - number of sites using Flash is still to big to be ignored. It does the job, and for majority of desktop OS users (except OSX) it works fine. It also seems to work fine on Android, much as my friends having Android have presented me. I haven't noticed Flash declining (regardless of what "Flash is doomed" coalition keep saying), but just out of curiosity - are there any reliable stats about Flash and HTML5 growth/decline available?

I would expect that Flash - like any other technology - will eventually go down the history lane, but I doubt HTML5 will be responsible; completely new technology will emerge, sooner or later. HTML5, I wouldn't be surprised if it goes into black hole before Flash.
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post #58 of 136
6/3/11 at 6:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

The solutions to all you mention are a bit too slow in coming I agree, never the less the best way to force the development is to remove the crutches and try to stand without Flash, painful as it may be for a while.

The video wars continue. H.264, Ogg, WebM...Flash. Everyone wants video and no one want ads.

Ghostery along with Click2Flash and you are all set on the Mac.

Advertisers are basically lazy. They won't spend the effort to develop both a Flash ad and an HTML5 version. Once they convert to HTML5 ads, then Flash will subside. Hopefully Ghostery will still be able to kill them. Unfortunately HTML5 ads will pollute iOS without something similar for Mobile Safari.

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post #59 of 136
6/3/11 at 6:40am
Am I the only one who goes for a week or more not hitting anything that needs Flash?

By need I'm not referring to some lame applet, but something that hinders my work in general. Bottom line is that (worthwhile) sites want to make cash and/or serve all of their customers equally. In the past year I've seen Flash dwindle like mad.

When people running iOS are more likely to spend, alienating them -- even if a minority, is something smart businesses will avoid. Flash came at a time when animated GIFs were the most exciting looking thing on a page. It filled a void in a half-assed sort of way. When someone manages to port an entire OS to JavaScript we can say free tools are much more advanced than 15 years ago. In case some of you missed it, Linux was ported to JavaScript. Can Flash do that?

There's more cross platform awareness amongst developers nowadays. Amongst the tech savvy MacBooks seem to be in every other person's lap. Most developers have at least toyed with Linux and keep its existence in the back of their minds.

The writing is on the wall for Flash. Bringing it to Android is a great way to make iOS look better after it eats battery life, processor power, creates heat, and flat out works like shit since it's been a mouse and keyboard controlled environment since its conception.
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post #60 of 136
6/3/11 at 6:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post

Is the Adobe CEO anything but a Troll at this point? If he really believes what he is saying, he should be fired. Actually he should be fired either way. Wow. Maybe he could take the job at RIM.

Let's not talk about RIM Jobs...
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post #61 of 136
6/3/11 at 7:01am
I do not like Narayen, and I'm no fan of Steve Jobs.

But Adobe has always been wrong about Flash, and everyone loses because of it. Apple had the courage to stand up and say NO, this terrible CPU/battery hog is holding back great devices from coming to market...what's more, other technologies already exist to easily replace it.

Adobe fires back with, what do you mean replace Flash? It's been a cash cow for us, and is delivering 80% of video on the web! You can't replace Flash. You'll just have to suffer through poor performance and lack of innovation because our product "won".

Guess again. Consumers proved that they want new products (shocker) instead of more of the same. Who could have seen that coming? Oh, Apple...and anyone with common sense.

I think back and laugh so hard at the thought of people who said they'd never buy an iPhone or iPad because they couldn't go to their usual free website and play free flash games. Meanwhile, every game out there is available free or cheap through the App Store, and it's a full screen touch game, rather than a tiny game square amid an entire page of ad links.
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post #62 of 136
6/3/11 at 7:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Sorry, for all the Acrobat and Flash security holes.

Yes.

How many emergency updates have there been due to yet another security issue in Flash? Whatever it actually is it sure seems like it's been weekly for the past decade. Fortunately, since my only dealing with Flash are my Flash blockers, I can ignore them. And Flash has been getting less relevant instead of more, so people like Narayen just keep looking very foolish.

Flash may be ubiquitous, but it's a nightmare of crap, and I don't mean the crap of Flash videos or popups, it's a nightmare program to have on your computer. Good point made that by the time Apple's 20 rivals have collectively surpassed it, Flash will be even less relevant.
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post #63 of 136
6/3/11 at 7:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard View Post

Narayen is truly awful. He claims that the feud is over by lying about the nature of Apple's complaint about Flash, in effect calling Jobs a liar. That is not ending a feud, it is making sure it blazes more strongly.

Exactly, it's all right in front of everyone but nobody seems to take note that he's actually fuelling the whole debate again by pretending there are no valid technical reasons to not want Flash on mobile, instead of 'putting it to rest'.

Keeping Flash off of iOS is not a decision based on business strategy, even though it nicely fits into where Apple wants to go with iOS. That's only an added bonus though, the most important reason is still simply because Flash on mobile downright sucks on every level and provides a terrible user experience once you go outside the carefully staged 'mobile Flash app' sites Adobe likes to demo. The only use case for Flash that somewhat works but still is one big hit-and-miss between devices and OS versions is web video, but the funny thing about web video is that you don't need no Flash player for that at all, at least not from a technical perspective.
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post #64 of 136
6/3/11 at 7:10am
[QUOTE='Apple ][;1874573']Terrorists probably love flash. They use PC laptops, running Windows most likely.

Have you ever heard of a terrorist being captured with a Mac? When Bin Laden was killed like the degenerate scum that he was, do you think that they confiscated a Mac laptop? When Shiek Mohammed (soon to be dead, hopefully) was captured and had his laptop confiscated, do you think it was a Macbook? I don't.

QUOTE]

Don't let Homeland Security find out...they might start profiling Windows users!
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post #65 of 136
6/3/11 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-range View Post

Exactly, it's all right in front of everyone but nobody seems to take note that he's actually fuelling the whole debate again by pretending there are no valid technical reasons to not want Flash on mobile, instead of 'putting it to rest'.

I think the worst part of the interview was when Mossberg saying he have yet to see flash working well on mobile platform, Narayen never answer to Mossberg claim.
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post #66 of 136
6/3/11 at 7:26am
Android Platform has its flaws. You got how many devices running Android. Your flash app could run like garbage depending on that Android device you have. Apple has one and that is the iPhone with iOS.

Flash is dead nobody wants to use it unless they wasted their time learing ActionScript which is a crappy and dirty language. Look at Doom 3d ported to html5

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/...om-on-the-web/

Why would u need flash. Oh I know why is because of video and the browsers can't decide what video standard to use. So it drives users nutz when compressing to different video formats for different browsers.
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post #67 of 136
6/3/11 at 7:30am
[QUOTE=BlueYeti;1874757]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Terrorists probably love flash. They use PC laptops, running Windows most likely.

Have you ever heard of a terrorist being captured with a Mac? When Bin Laden was killed like the degenerate scum that he was, do you think that they confiscated a Mac laptop? When Shiek Mohammed (soon to be dead, hopefully) was captured and had his laptop confiscated, do you think it was a Macbook? I don't.

QUOTE]

Don't let Homeland Security find out...they might start profiling Windows users!

Looks like they have a fixation on looking like Apple tho.
http://ojihad.wordpress.com/2011/05/...-apple-fetish/

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post #68 of 136
6/3/11 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by linke.account View Post

Android tablets will dominate the market??? Where were till now?? That game has already ended. Apple is dominating the tablet market and that's finished. iPad became another iPod in terms of dominance and your crappy company is dying and begging to have flash on iOS devices. Even on my Mac I'm not using flash anymore (with extensions like Click2Flash) let alone on mobile devices. Even MS and Google are moving towards HTML5

i remember a time when office supply stores (there wasn't a 'computer' store) sold tons of apple games and a few dos games. apple games as far as i could see. i loved it. a few years later it was reversed. you could find a couple of decent games for mac and everything else was Windows.
the lay of the land can turn on a dime in technology.
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post #69 of 136
6/3/11 at 7:55am
Android tablets will be a worthy and necessary competitor. But with no contracts to block people from buying the tablet they really want (iPad), when they want (now), the road to dominance for Android will be problematic.
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post #70 of 136
6/3/11 at 8:00am
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Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

i remember a time when office supply stores (there wasn't a 'computer' store) sold tons of apple games and a few dos games. apple games as far as i could see. i loved it. a few years later it was reversed. you could find a couple of decent games for mac and everything else was Windows.
the lay of the land can turn on a dime in technology.

I agree with your conclusion, but though I am 65 and have been using only Macs since 1986 I never remember seeing more Apple games than Windows/DOS. Were you around during Apple IIe days? Maybe it was that way then?
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #71 of 136
6/3/11 at 8:02am
Adobe's CED should have simply told Mossberg: "I can haz future relevance?"
Of course he's going to complain about Apple's business model because it blocks Flash from becoming de facto standard in the post-PC era. Of course he's going to pin his hopes on Android, just as Microsoft has pinned their hopes around Windows being relevant in the post-PC era.

As for Apple's business model, it worked well for the iPod over "compatibility platforms" like Microsoft's PlaysForSure, which Microsoft eventually abandoned in favor of copying Apple's model. So much for "hardware vibrancy" arguments. And this same model is used by Microsoft in its Xbox business (it copied what Sega and Nintendo have done for years before): Microsoft has a tightly curated software platform for Xbox and Flash isn't welcome.

"Can't innovate anymore my ass!" -- Phil Schiller

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post #72 of 136
6/3/11 at 8:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm seeing Silverlight have a better longevity than Flash at this point. It's used with success on WP7 and for Netflix streaming on Windows and Mac OS.

Ew... I won't even install that.

"Can't innovate anymore my ass!" -- Phil Schiller

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post #73 of 136
6/3/11 at 8:05am
The way I see it is that Adobe has lost its way. After buying much of Macromedia's assets they have maneuvered from a creative company to a company who provides coding platforms, and having Shantanu as their CEO further asserted that position.

Adobe has stopped developing good dynamic software that solves problem for the creative market, and now they are falling into a sea of bloatware and plugins. There is so much left to be done in the creative market and there will always be, it's an endless market. Designers still need better ways of converting PSD artwork into code, a better software than Dreamweaver, and a slew of new creative web tools. Illustrator and Freehand eliminated the need to code in postscript, how about a similar effort for HTML 5 for example (I know I know but my point is there are still challenges in the market and with the right direction they can flourish again)

There are so many languages out there it's mind-numbing, and Air/Flex are not helping. Adobe's own site is embarrassing, they tried to combine HTML with Flash, it played ok with some browsers and not on most, so now they switched back to HTML with Flash headers, and the store is basically a pop-up Flash window.

Adobe also dumped some great Freehand features instead of incorporating them into Illustrator, not bloat features but usability features. Also the shortcuts vary from one software to another, Command-click in say InDesign selects the object in the next layer, in Illustrator it's a different key combination, in Photoshop? no short cut key but you can right click and see the layers! urrr.. .that's why I have a layers pan always open on the side.

Ron Paul

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Ron Paul

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post #74 of 136
6/3/11 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcsegenmd View Post

I'm willing to bet that with time, the history of the MP3 will repeat itself with most other devices that apple makes. 10 years ago (I don't know the exact dateshoot me) Apple entered the MP3 player market. They now own 70-75% of that market, leaving the others to fight over the crumbs, with profits so slim that the smarter companies have surrendered.

I think the iPod-iPad parallel is even closer than you indicate.
True, the iPod was not the first MP3 player around (check out the video of Steve Jobs opening the first Apple retail store, he talks about selling MP3 players from various manufacturers--this was before the iPod came out!).
But the iPod gave a more enjoyable, easier user experience, and sales took off.

Similarly, the iPad is not the first table computer around.
But the iPad gives a more enjoyable, easier user experience. And sales, well, you know.

Could say the same thing about iPhone.
Hmm...
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post #75 of 136
6/3/11 at 8:15am
Nayaren, like his counter parts are missing the boat again. The iPad like every other tablet is nothing but hardware but what is important is the 80/20 rule meaning 80% are the consumer market sandbox that Nayaren is speaking about. Apple is already passed that and developing important areas such as education. I truly beleive that if Apple has or gets eduction from k12 to higher ed you will get State and Local next, than Federal.

Apple Mac sales has not seen this kind jump in years which is proof that its about what you get with the hardware that matters. The only way to catch Apple is leap frog into the 20% developing market and get there before Apple has had a chance to develop.

Within 5 years we will see an Apple solution based product at every major School District, University and deep in to medical. While others keep trying to catch up in the consumer market Apple will and is moving into areas that will only strengthen it's position based on it's solutions in any specific market to goes after.

Introducing andriod based hardware with a structured development community that creates new and exciting opportunities is what will make adriod king. But the unaswered question is the king of what? and for who!
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post #76 of 136
6/3/11 at 8:28am
Big baloated and useless. No more vision just corporate business. If they want flash to succede then open source it if its such a great technology.


I just wish Apple would come up with their own advanced HTML 5 editor and framework that will speed up their mobile development.
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post #77 of 136
6/3/11 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

I agree with your conclusion, but though I am 65 and have been using only Macs since 1986 I never remember seeing more Apple games than Windows/DOS. Were you around during Apple IIe days? Maybe it was that way then?

apple II yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apple_II_games
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post #78 of 136
6/3/11 at 8:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargatesg1 View Post

Big baloated and useless. No more vision just corporate business. If they want flash to succede then open source it if its such a great technology.


I just wish Apple would come up with their own advanced HTML 5 editor and framework that will speed up their mobile development.

Actually, two Apple employes left the company to create a new little startup who propose an HTML 5 animation tool named Hype.
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post #79 of 136
6/3/11 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

Actually, two Apple employes left the company to create a new little startup who propose an HTML 5 animation tool named Hype.

Again we need a big company like Apple to come up with the ultimate HTML5 Animiation development tool that will blow dreamweaver and flash out of the water.
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post #80 of 136
6/3/11 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargatesg1 View Post

Again we need a big company like Apple to come up with the ultimate HTML5 Animiation development tool that will blow dreamweaver and flash out of the water.

I agree with you, but I don't think it should be Apple role for making web development tool, It would polarize many anti-apple guys against HTML5.

This should be Adobe role. I've never understand Adobe position for keeping Flash for so long on artificial respirator and keep pushing it. Adobe was born to make creative tools, they should embrace HTML5 and make creative software for it.
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