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Adobe CEO downplays Flash, iOS feud, says Android tablets will dominate iPad - Page 3

post #81 of 136
6/3/11 at 8:49am
Does anyone else think that Shantanu Narayen looks and acts like a Ferengi? Likely as trustworthy as one too.

So much of what comes out of his mouth is pure $&!#. He told Mossberg that Flash is running just fine on Android after it is constantly proven that it is not. It works fine on the Playbook, but only for video. But, these other tablets need something to differentiate themselves from the iPad and all they have is Flash for that, even if it works like crap.
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post #82 of 136
6/3/11 at 8:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

I agree with you, but I don't think it should be Apple role for making web development tool, It would polarize many anti-apple guys against HTML5.

This should be Adobe role. I've never understand Adobe position for keeping Flash for so long on artificial respirator and keep pushing it. Adobe was born to make creative tools, they should embrace HTML5 and make creative software for it.

Reason why Adobe didn't get rid of Flash was because they never thought the browser would catch up to what flash can do. The W3C is so slow to finalize a spec Adobe figured that well we can move in a pace like the W3C slow like a turtle. And hey flash still makes money so we will keep it for as long as we are puting money in our pockets. It seams like every adobe product they come out with new or old they charge too much money for it. Charging a lot of money for software those days are over.
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post #83 of 136
6/3/11 at 8:53am
If the OEM's stick custom UI's over honeycomb, your gonna see those sales go down REAL fast.

The only company I see that has(from an Android perspective) even the slightest chance of at least being noticeable most likely on a small scale to apple is ASUS.
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post #84 of 136
6/3/11 at 8:58am
HTML5 standards have not yet even been settled on have they? According to documents published by W3C, the HTML Working Group has just advanced HTML5 to "Last Call" status with full specifications not due till 2014.

http://www.w3.org/2011/02/htmlwg-pr.html

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #85 of 136
6/3/11 at 9:01am
Isn't Apple in a position now that they could buy out Adobe?

That would end the Flash war once and for all.

However, even if they did that, I doubt it would end the bloat and the yearly product updates that have little in the way of new features. Apple is somewhat notorious for that with iLife, then just look at Filemaker.
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post #86 of 136
6/3/11 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargatesg1 View Post

Reason why Adobe didn't get rid of Flash was because they never thought the browser would catch up to what flash can do. The W3C is so slow to finalize a spec Adobe figured that well we can move in a pace like the W3C slow like a turtle. And hey flash still makes money so we will keep it for as long as we are puting money in our pockets. It seams like every adobe product they come out with new or old they charge too much money for it. Charging a lot of money for software those days are over.

You're probably right, I still wonder when Adobe have start to envision Flash as Java VM competitor and making it an application runtime. Flash shouldn't have become what Adobe try with Air/flex.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BTBlomberg View Post

Does anyone else think that Shantanu Narayen looks and acts like a Ferengi? Likely as trustworthy as one too.

I do! just like RIM's CEO
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post #87 of 136
6/3/11 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenclaw View Post

Isn't Apple in a position now that they could buy out Adobe?

That would end the Flash war once and for all.

However, even if they did that, I doubt it would end the bloat and the yearly product updates that have little in the way of new features. Apple is somewhat notorious for that with iLife, then just look at Filemaker.


They can buy out adobe and get rid of flash but this could lead into a Legal battle. I think if apple bought adobe they woudn't get rid of flash they would fix it up. But then again what is apple really gainig from buying Adobe. We know flash is dying and old code. I think Apple SHOULD buy Nintendo now that would be the best merger for both sides. Nintendo gaming console is dying.
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post #88 of 136
6/3/11 at 9:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

You're probably right, I still wonder when Adobe have start to envision Flash as Java VM competitor and making it an application runtime. Flash shouldn't have become what Adobe try with Air/flex.


I do! just like RIM's CEO


All I can say is that Adobe / Flex was a waste of time. You can do all that with jQuery and html. Also with node.js coming into the game who cares about Adobe AIR. Node.js allows you to build native apps without using a browser.
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post #89 of 136
6/3/11 at 9:31am
deleted
"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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"Surely it is possible to love Apple products and still respect what others have achieved?" - Stelligent
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post #90 of 136
6/3/11 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

There might be a terrorist or two out there that has a Mac.

Probably their web/graphic designers
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post #91 of 136
6/3/11 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2stepbay View Post


The general tendency for the PC crowd is to think "computer" when building a tablet. This flawed approach works to Apple's advantage.

well said.
Maybe you should get your mind out of your niche. -Dilbert
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Maybe you should get your mind out of your niche. -Dilbert
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post #92 of 136
6/3/11 at 9:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Eventually, the sales of android tablets being made by every other manufacturer on the planet might just sell more than one tablet made by one manufacturer. It might be many years from now, but it'll probably happen, just like with the phones.

When people compare iOS to Android, they're comparing 1 company VS everybody else, which includes hundreds of companies. That tells you how strong Apple is compared to everybody else.

Sure. And you know what? Sandisk, Creative Labs, Diamond, Samsung, and even Microsoft managed to sell lots of portable music players in the past 10 years. 1 company vs. everybody else.
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #93 of 136
6/3/11 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

He has stopped freaking out about iOS not supporting Flash because he thinks Android is going to be the dominant platform.

But he should still be freaking out because, even as a minority, iOS would be a significant minority, and companies would use technologies that give compatibility with both (HTML5 or others).

super.. completely agree.... Its clear to me that Flash will no longer be the desirable choice, when Microsoft has made the move to HTML5 in new Windows 8 and has successfully upgraded IE to use HTML5 for most users running legacy versions of Windows. I look forward to this day.
Maybe you should get your mind out of your niche. -Dilbert
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Maybe you should get your mind out of your niche. -Dilbert
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post #94 of 136
6/3/11 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

super.. completely agree.... Its clear to me that Flash will no longer be the desirable choice, when Microsoft has made the move to HTML5 in new Windows 8 and has successfully upgraded IE to use HTML5 for most users running legacy versions of Windows. I look forward to this day.

We are at Internet Explorer 9 and they still don't have it right. Will they ever get it.
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post #95 of 136
6/3/11 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargatesg1 View Post

I think Apple SHOULD buy Nintendo now that would be the best merger for both sides. Nintendo gaming console is dying.

Can't Happen, Won't happen. Japanese Law prevents any foreign investor from buying out or holding a majority stake in a domestic company.

Besides, The Nintendo's Imminent death thing is about as accurate as the 97' "death" of Apple.

Nintendo is the Apple of Gaming, usually being the one to make the most memorable games and introduce a concept that everyone ends up following.

Virtua boy gets released- OMG NINTENDO YOUR GONNA DIE
PSone launches- Nintendo betrayed sony, so now it's going to pay.
N64- Cartridges? WTH Nintendo? lack of 3rd party support
Gamecube- Nintendo sold the worst of the generation(that was still in business as a hardware maker)!, lack of 3rd party support. small, dead media format
Wii- KIDDY GAMES NINTENDO IS DOOMED!! Lack of 3rd party support
Project Cafe- It's too late nintendo..doom is upon ye.

Let's just give it a rest already.
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post #96 of 136
6/3/11 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

During Thursday's interview, Narayen asserted that the disagreement between the two companies hadn't ultimately been about the technology. "It's a business model issue, and it's about control of a platform," he said.

Narayen is exactly right, it's about Adobe's desire to control rich media on the web with proprietary authoring and decoding tools.

His delusion comes in where he thinks it's a single-platforms apps vs Flash war. It's always been an HTML 5 vs Flash war - making Flash redundant by getting the functionality it offers native to each and every browser regardless of hardware.

Apps only started to come into play when consumers and developers (not Steve) decided that they were a more convenient way of delivering and accessing some content. You just try making money by getting people to visit your web page without advertising, in the real-world it doesn't work because there's no common charging system so you'd have to sign up to every different service and login every time you wanted to use it.

This change to apps for paid content and HTML 5 for animations, video etc in no way makes Adobe irrelevant. They are widely recognised as being among the best content-creation app developers in the world and content still needs to be authored just not in a format almost no mobile device owners can appreciate.
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post #97 of 136
6/3/11 at 9:53am
' I think the community is vibrant. Im really excited, he said. '

droid had a pretty good run in the smartphone space, but its last safe haven has been breached. The Verizon iPhone stopped droid's smartphone growth in the US. And the major area of droid's growth outside the US is in China. In yes, another fragment of the hopelessly fragmented droid tree. And it's hurting Google. Not helping.

One or more of the high-growth Chinese versions of droid have no connection to Google search (obviously), with a non-Android Market app store, and a different map engine. But the real killer is that there are no AdMob ads. That hits Google where it really hurts. 96% of Google's revenue comes from ads. No droid spam = no Google profits.

On top of that, there's nothing but bad news for Google in the iPad clone market. Xoom and Galaxy Tab have failed to catch on. That has allowed Microsoft, of all dinosaurs, to launch an attempt to come back with Windows 8 on a tablet. Terrible idea, but it could still overtake droid to become a distant yet profitable #2 behind iPad. (One reason, incidentally, why Rubin has cracked down on "open" in favor of "controlled.")

Motorola, Samsung, Acer, HP, RIM, and all other iPad wannabes have scaled back their production plans. They don't believe Narayen's irrational cheerleading. And they've cut back production by millions of units:

http://www.electronista.com/articles....scaling.back/

Vibrant? Hardly.

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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post #98 of 136
6/3/11 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargatesg1 View Post

We are at Internet Explorer 9 and they still don't have it right. Will they ever get it.

10 looks promising.

You can go ahead and choose your own definition for the word 'promising'.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #99 of 136
6/3/11 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

i remember a time when office supply stores (there wasn't a 'computer' store) sold tons of apple games and a few dos games. apple games as far as i could see. i loved it. a few years later it was reversed. you could find a couple of decent games for mac and everything else was Windows.
the lay of the land can turn on a dime in technology.

You can thank DirectX for that.
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post #100 of 136
6/3/11 at 10:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

I do not like Narayen, and I'm no fan of Steve Jobs.

I think back and laugh so hard at the thought of people who said they'd never buy an iPhone or iPad because they couldn't go to their usual free website and play free flash games. Meanwhile, every game out there is available free or cheap through the App Store, and it's a full screen touch game, rather than a tiny game square amid an entire page of ad links.

I had to laugh.. you are so right about this. People say interesting things when someone proposes that legacy technology are no longer necessary and wont continue to support it.

Mac - only one button on the mouse. No command line.
iMac G3 - no floppy, USB expansion to replace keyboard/mice PS/2 ports and printer LPT ports
Macbook Air - no CDROM/DVD Drive
iOS - no filesystem management, no Flash support, only support electronic d/l of applications, , SD card expansion.
Watching Bluray movies on your computer
Apple software and hardware packaging - Those BIG boxes full of mostly air.
Maybe you should get your mind out of your niche. -Dilbert
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post #101 of 136
6/3/11 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenclaw View Post

Isn't Apple in a position now that they could buy out Adobe?

That would end the Flash war once and for all.

I dont think this is necessary.. Websites are already either being updated to support iOS devices or providing native iOS app to access the website data. As another poster said already.. I no longer seem to need Flash on my iOS device these days to do that I want on the web.

I think Flash will go the way of RealPlayer.
Maybe you should get your mind out of your niche. -Dilbert
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post #102 of 136
6/3/11 at 10:46am
Adobe stance of Flash on Android... "look ma, I can view a web page with flash on it. just like on my PC, but only smaller". "That is amazing son!, you mean all I need to do is have a phone with a fast enough CPU and then continually pan and zoom around to see the content that I want?" "Wow, that truly is amazing!".

Meanwhile, the first question smartphone veterans ask is "Reading web pages designed for desktop computers on my smartphone is a real PITA, I wonder if there is an application for their website to allow me to get around optimally on my smartphone? hmm.. let me check" Well, maybe not those exact words.
Maybe you should get your mind out of your niche. -Dilbert
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post #103 of 136
6/3/11 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

Adobe stance of Flash on Android... "look ma, I can view a web page with flash on it. just like on my PC, but only smaller". "That is amazing son!, you mean all I need to do is have a phone with a fast enough CPU and then continually pan and zoom around to see the content that I want?" "Wow, that truly is amazing!".

That makes me think of this silly ad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PeH9CRkMDE
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #104 of 136
6/3/11 at 10:53am
Is it just me or do all of Apple's competitors have CEO's with last names like Wu, Wong, Dong, Whoflungchow, or other such foreign sounding phraseology?
Always remember..wherever you go, there you are.
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Always remember..wherever you go, there you are.
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post #105 of 136
6/3/11 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuncyWeb View Post

Is it just me or do all of Apple's competitors have CEO's with last names like Wu, Wong, Dong, Whoflungchow, or other such foreign sounding phraseology?

welcome to the global marketplace.
Maybe you should get your mind out of your niche. -Dilbert
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post #106 of 136
6/3/11 at 11:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That makes me think of this silly ad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PeH9CRkMDE

very entertaining.. lol

Here's another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STw4zti94iM

Is it Flash Ah ah! or Flash AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe you should get your mind out of your niche. -Dilbert
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post #107 of 136
6/3/11 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

And the major area of droid's growth outside the US is in China. In yes, another fragment of the hopelessly fragmented droid tree. And it's hurting Google. Not helping.

One or more of the high-growth Chinese versions of droid have no connection to Google search (obviously), with a non-Android Market app store, and a different map engine. But the real killer is that there are no AdMob ads. That hits Google where it really hurts. 96% of Google's revenue comes from ads. No droid spam = no Google profits.

Baidu, the Chinese search engine has seen some growth in the past year, now at nearly 5% of the worldwide search-engine market. That's better than even Bing, who I had thought would make a bigger impression by now. Google still holds about 83% market share, which is just as amazing as Apple carrying 80% of the tablet market IMO. That any single company can control so much of a huge market is incredible.

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/sear...ider=1&qprid=5

So in reality Google has very little real competition in search for now. But Facebook is another matter. They're the one's Google needs to be most concerned with since they're going after the ad market itself.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #108 of 136
6/3/11 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

I dont think this is necessary.. Websites are already either being updated to support iOS devices...

If I may offer a data point: My wife runs her own business and has several websites. We manage some of them in-house and farm some out. The first thing she tells the outside vendors is that whatever they do must work on her iPhone and iPad...
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post #109 of 136
6/3/11 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jims1973 View Post

You can thank DirectX for that.

Thank you Micro$oft for buying out the unique Mac only games developer 2 weeks after showing Halo running on a Mac in OpenGL at MacWorld'99...
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post #110 of 136
6/3/11 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Baidu, the Chinese search engine has seen some growth in the past year, now at nearly 5% of the worldwide search-engine market. ]

Its important to keep in mind that Baidu market cap is very different then Google's. Google's market is everywhere BUT China. Baidu's is ONLY China (currently). However, having said that, it is important to point out that 1 out of every 5 people in the world is Chinese. US+Canada combined only represents 1 in 20 people. Something to ponder.

I think its hard for many to appreciate the market potential of China until you actually visit a few regions in China first hand.
Maybe you should get your mind out of your niche. -Dilbert
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post #111 of 136
6/3/11 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard View Post

The trouble with capitalism is the role, incompetence and insane salaries of CEO's. They are ruining perfectly good companies. Marx didn't foresee this problem and no new Marx has been born to show the way out.

Yeah, that's just what we need. "A new Marx to show us the way out."
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post #112 of 136
6/3/11 at 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

Thank you Micro$oft for buying out the unique Mac only games developer 2 weeks after showing Halo running on a Mac in OpenGL at MacWorld'99...

Speaking of which, when will we get a Mac version of Halo 2? I mean, I can run it in Cider, but I'd like something native.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
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post #113 of 136
6/3/11 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Speaking of which, when will we get a Mac version of Halo 2? I mean, I can run it in Cider, but I'd like something native.

I'd put under "eventually".

Microsoft owns the IP now, so they'll get around to it.
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post #114 of 136
6/3/11 at 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Speaking of which, when will we get a Mac version of Halo 2? I mean, I can run it in Cider, but I'd like something native.

Should be available soon with Oni 2, Marathon and the next Myth
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post #115 of 136
6/3/11 at 12:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

That's exactly right.



But... HP doesn't combine their numbers will Dell when they give their results for computers... so why would you combine Samsung, HTC, LG and Motorola for phones? Those companies are bitter enemies.

Perhaps not, but microsoft does.
Maybe Samsung and Motorola don't combine numbers, but Google the the press certainly do.

Thankfully, this is the case. Otherwise, Apple would look like a huge company to everyone and it wouldn't fuel the "leet" status fanbois have concerning Apple. It's just not that cool to be in love with the new IBM or Microsoft :-)
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post #116 of 136
6/3/11 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

Its important to keep in mind that Baidu market cap is very different then Google's. Google's market is everywhere BUT China. Baidu's is ONLY China (currently). However, having said that, it is important to point out that 1 out of every 5 people in the world is Chinese. US+Canada combined only represents 1 in 20 people. Something to ponder.

I think its hard for many to appreciate the market potential of China until you actually visit a few regions in China first hand.

Nobody who has a choice will ever trust Baidu for search results or privacy. Baidu will always be only in china.
Contrary to your observation, I would say, "Only when one gets out of Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, and Hong Kong can one appreciate that most of China is actually pretty poor."
The showcase cities and the Olympic Games really skew what typical visitors think about China. That said, China has done well for itself in many ways over the last 40 years.
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post #117 of 136
6/3/11 at 12:48pm
...they have to update Flash on a PC every other day. Even the Adobe Reader gets an update about once a week. Really? To read PDFs I need to update this piece of shit app once a week? I can't stand Adobe and their crappy apps. The last one I'm using is Photoshop and I'm using that less and less.
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post #118 of 136
6/3/11 at 2:24pm
Of the apps that I have on my Evo... Flash is the 4th largest app behind Netflix, HBO GO, and Google Earth... 11.96MB. The browser I use (Dolphin HD) is 2.59MB. Why is a plug-in for a browser 5x as large as the browser.

This seems like bloatware to me. That's why it performs so badly on my Evo. I rarely, if ever, use Flash on my phone. Screen it too small for flash games and many don't work right using touch. I have used it for YouTube (for videos not available in the mobile app).

Having Flash on a phone is a checkbox feature. Now, on a tablet, that is different. I wouldn't mind it on my iPad but not on my iPod touch. I am thinking about removing it from my phone as well. Perhaps, if I had a use for it...
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post #119 of 136
6/3/11 at 2:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

Thank you Micro$oft for buying out the unique Mac only games developer 2 weeks after showing Halo running on a Mac in OpenGL at MacWorld'99...

Yeah I remember that. That REALLY pissed me off. And yes I know Bungie had run out of money and probably would not have survived without MS buying them, but still . . . ugly business. At least they were smart enough to build-in a "get out of jail free" card into their deal and they played it.
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post #120 of 136
6/3/11 at 2:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

Yeah I remember that. That REALLY pissed me off. And yes I know Bungie had run out of money and probably would not have survived without MS buying them, but still . . . ugly business. At least they were smart enough to build-in a "get out of jail free" card into their deal and they played it.

This is one of those great moves by MS and few bad moves by Apple after the return of Jobs. Apple ended up doing fine (obviously) but if they had supported Bungie I bet they would have even more money now and MS would have even less.
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