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Rumor: Think of Apple's iCloud as 'the new iTunes' - Page 2

post #41 of 131
6/5/11 at 9:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrak05 View Post

No, I want my media on my MacBook Pro!

I've bought the best music and moving video because they deserve it. To others I say FUCK YOU.
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post #42 of 131
6/5/11 at 9:52pm
Gruber: ...think of iCloud as the new iTunes.

I think it's more than that. Sticking my neck out here, but iCloud just may enable multi-user IOS. Think about a family sharing an iPad, each with separate iCloud accounts containing unique settings, data, apps. These could be cached from the cloud onto local storage based on e.g. frequency of use (new ios-based Time Capsule and/or OSX-based cache server/daemons managed through new system prefs, e.g. how much to cache, how long to cache it, etc).
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post #43 of 131
6/5/11 at 9:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Let's go further. Let's think of the new iCloud as iCloud and iTunes as dead.

You mean: let's make iTunes sync and media management wireless and cloud based and rename iTunes to iCloud? The problem with that is iCloud may not have an App, the same way MobileMe doesn't have a default App per-se.

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post #44 of 131
6/5/11 at 10:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ijordan View Post

Quit complaining, if it were something useless and inconvenient, they wouldn't be launching it. It's not like were talking about Microsoft BOB!

Lame first post.

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post #45 of 131
6/5/11 at 10:01pm
My one worry, as someone mentioned earlier, is limited bandwidth caps from both broadband and mobile providers. The (i)Cloud based future sounds awesome, but not very usable if you don't have the bandwidth available without your connection being slowed to a crawl or being charged an arm and a leg extra for going over it.

Thus I suspect in many places where this is the case we'll still be doing things much the same way as we do now.
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post #46 of 131
6/5/11 at 10:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

And Apple's policy of not telling their customers when someone steals their data from their servers is just the cherry on top!

Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

That's what the testified to Congress. No policy of telling customers when their data is stolen.

There's a world of difference between a "policy of not telling their customers when someone steals their data" and "No policy of telling customers when their data is stolen."

The first is: yeah, we're dickseven though we know customer data has been stolen, we have a policy in place not to inform the customer when that has happened.

The second is: sorry, we have not yet put together a policy of informing customers when their data has been stolen.
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post #47 of 131
6/5/11 at 10:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrak05 View Post

No, I want my media on my MacBook Pro!

It's called optional. Remove the tin-foil hat and step away from the Microwave.

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post #48 of 131
6/5/11 at 10:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrak05 View Post

I've bought the best music and moving video because they deserve it. To others I say FUCK YOU.

You're as a aggressive as an angry crow in a tree with a machine gun.

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post #49 of 131
6/5/11 at 10:10pm
The two biggest things here that may come from this are:

1. I'll finally be able to wholeheartedly recommend an iPad. If we get wireless out-of-the-box activation, free iCloud and an e-mail address. It would complete the picture. Then, I would tell me Aunt to get an iPad knowing she will have a complete solution from Apple.

2. Hopefully now my podcasts will stay in sync across devices without a headache.

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post #50 of 131
6/5/11 at 10:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Fine Line View Post

Conceptually, I like the idea. iTunes being the main sync point han't made sense for a while.

So do I, if they can execute it well but that's a big "IF".

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post #51 of 131
6/5/11 at 10:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

The two biggest things here that may come from this are:

1. I'll finally be able to wholeheartedly recommend an iPad. If we get wireless out-of-the-box activation and free iCloud that is.

2. Hopefully now my podcasts will stay in sync across devices without a headache.

It will be interesting if comes Monday the iPad can be a stand-alone device but somehow I don't hold my breath for it. Yeah I'm that pessimist.

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post #52 of 131
6/5/11 at 10:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

It will be interesting if comes Monday the iPad can be a stand-alone device but somehow I don't hold my breath for it. Yeah I'm that pessimist.

I'm usually pretty optimistic, but I get you on this one. Just like they never quite did Safari Extensions right, I have a sinking feeling about this too.

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post #53 of 131
6/5/11 at 10:30pm
It's plausible.

If iCloud is able to scan your iTunes library and give you access to the songs you purchased from iTunes and perhaps more then it's even more likely that the same technology will be deployed for apps.

In essence if iCloud is able to separate the data from the application but still keep things in sync then it only needs to store the metadata (i.e what app, what version, what data) only the data would be backed up because the app itself would be on an Apple server somewhere. When you restored your iPad iCloud would be smart enough to "reassemble" your setup.

Thus instead of a 300MB backup the typical backup would be less than 50MB.

Suddenly iPads could sell to anyone, people with Macs, people with PC and now ..people without a computer at all.

ca'ching.
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post #54 of 131
6/5/11 at 10:34pm
What iCloud might be is the death of iTunes the client. For all the people on Windows complaining about the performance of iTunes, I suspect one of the reasons it hasn't been properly optimized for Vista/7 or even a 64-bit OS X version is that they're moving completely to the web. With the power, speed, and sandboxing available in current browsers there's no reason to require a native desktop client. Limit installers to those for device support and Quicktime for Windows and it should be fine.

I remember having a discussion with one of my bosses about transitioning from a native app to web. In many organizations it's such an overhaul that it always ends up on the backburner while web standards are employed by the native app. Eventually it's a good idea to pursue just from a support and service delivery standpoint. Imagine how many petabytes have to be served up every time an iTunes update has to be delivered. The transition may be daunting, but there's plenty of reason to do it and iCloud makes sense as the backbone for the change.
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post #55 of 131
6/5/11 at 10:39pm
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Originally Posted by magicj View Post

Last I checked we don't generate electricity from petroleum.

Not directly, but we do use petroleum for moving coal to power plants.
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post #56 of 131
6/5/11 at 10:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear View Post

Not directly, but we do use petroleum for moving coal to power plants.

Actually, there's a diesel-powered electrical power plant in my town.

But it's small, and usually kicks in only on summer days when peak air-conditioning demand is high.
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post #57 of 131
6/5/11 at 10:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

Yay!

Finally someone has figured out how to solve the hassle of having all my data, songs, apps, books, and movies available with me at all times and replaced it with the convienence of downloading it all over and over again over slow public wi-fi!

And for just $25.00 per year I will be able to listen to music I've already paid for whenever I want (after I download it over said slow public wi-fi)! That's lightyears ahead of what I'm forced to do now: listen to it instantly for free.

And Apple's policy of not telling their customers when someone steals their data from their servers is just the cherry on top!

magicj - as usual, your comments are offensive, ridiculous and generally clueless. Says a lot about you. The benefits of cloud storage go way beyond a ridiculously low price of $25 per year. And you haven't even seen or heard about the full features and benefits of the new service but you still have your head all the way up your....
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post #58 of 131
6/5/11 at 11:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Snitch View Post

Gruber's a flaming clown, but he's often quite right on Apple/Mac issues. I think he's correct here: Apple's 'cloud' is designed mainly to replace the role your computer & iTunes play in regard to your iOS device.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

You nailed him. On both counts.

I don't get this. It seems to come up a lot-- that Gruber is right about stuff but he's a "clown."

Why? I read him all the time, he's generally pretty analytical. He has a weakness for pointing out some of the really bad prognostication tech pundits do around Apple and the industry, but I don't see why he's a clown.
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post #59 of 131
6/5/11 at 11:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

All Apple mobile devices should have gotten wireless charging already. It'll come eventually, but the sooner the better.

Really? Why?

Is it too difficult for you to plug in a charging cable? In it's current form inductive charging is inefficient so Apple are unlikely to choose it at this time as it's not green enough.
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post #60 of 131
6/5/11 at 11:20pm
Which data? My contacts? photos? banking info notes? ... Why worry about Google scandals or Bush/bama snooping: just turn it all over to a corporation ???!!!! WTH IS WRONG WITH US ???!!!!
WHY ARE WE NOT OUTRAGED ?????!!!!!!




Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

Yay!

Finally someone has figured out how to solve the hassle of having all my data, songs, apps, books, and movies available with me at all times and replaced it with the convienence of downloading it all over and over again over slow public wi-fi!

And for just $25.00 per year I will be able to listen to music I've already paid for whenever I want (after I download it over said slow public wi-fi)! That's lightyears ahead of what I'm forced to do now: listen to it instantly for free.

And Apple's policy of not telling their customers when someone steals their data from their servers is just the cherry on top!
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post #61 of 131
6/5/11 at 11:23pm
This is the same guy who began all of that ridiculous retina display nonsense for the iPad. By tomorrow, we'll all know the real deal straight from Steve Job's mouth.

If iCloud turns out to be some great thing where anybody can access their entire music/video libraries and more from all of their devices, then suddenly my 16 GB iPad2 doesn't feel so cramped for space anymore.

Could this actually hurt Apple hardware sales or at least affect them slightly? If people can store everything in the cloud and have quick access to their files and massive libraries, then fewer people would opt to buy the most expensive devices with more memory in them. Why store thousands of songs or a ton of videos on a device that costs more, when you can just get the cheaper device and have all of your media on the cloud with easy and fast access to it.
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post #62 of 131
6/5/11 at 11:38pm
...I think I get it. It's all about going Back to the Mac. Making Mac OS X more like iOS.

With iCloud taking care of all the sync functions what is iTunes for? iTunes sole purpose is to purchase/rent media. It's soley a digital music store, more like iTunes in iOS. A single purpose app made for purchasing content.

Let's take this logic one step further. Front Row is now gone. Could it be replaced with an iPod app, again like iOS. An app that would allow you to manage, and consume media in iOS.

So the process becomes exactly the same on both Operating Systems.

Example: On your Mac, you buy a song in iTunes, listen to in the iPod app. Now you head out for a jog, pick up your iPhone and "magically" have your newly purchased song in the iPod app on your iPhone.

The process works exactly the same in both directions. Im not sure how well this would work on windows? But I'd imagine that iTunes in it's current form would still work.

The App Store in Mac OS is a clear indicator of what iTunes could look like as a stand alone store. And funtionally it would be incredibly similar to how the App Store and iTunes work in iOS today.
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post #63 of 131
6/6/11 at 12:00am
Just a small addition to my previous post. iWork was just released for iOS making it available for every Apple device.

Think of the possibilities.. Creating a document in iOS on a train. Finishing it up at home your Mac. Having colleague's view and comment on the document in iWork.com (unless that's rolled into iCloud, likely) Getting back to work and printing it from iCloud.com

This is the kind of the reason "The Cloud" makes everything better.

Its all about having the same apps in Mac OS and iOS, and having the iCloud in between them to keep everything organized.
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post #64 of 131
6/6/11 at 12:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I don't get this. It seems to come up a lot-- that Gruber is right about stuff but he's a "clown."

Why? I read him all the time, he's generally pretty analytical. He has a weakness for pointing out some of the really bad prognostication tech pundits do around Apple and the industry, but I don't see why he's a clown.



Yeah, I'm with you on this one. I wasn't understanding where the Gruber vitriol was coming from. Can anyone comment?
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post #65 of 131
6/6/11 at 12:26am
I'm personally seeing a tighter integration of media.

Right now, we have this slightly clunky system where to play music, you have to open the iTunes application. Want to stream to your AppleTV? Well you gotta open iTunes and let it sit there, not doing anything but serving your apps. I see that going. I see the Media Controls, like a constantly running iTunes and the only thing you bring up is an OS window to access the controls and view the Store. It will all snyc with iCloud right built in.
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post #66 of 131
6/6/11 at 12:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

So do I, if they can execute it well but that's a big "IF".

It appears to be a billion-dollar "IF".
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post #67 of 131
6/6/11 at 1:13am
Quote:

Gruber's a flaming clown, but he's often quite right on Apple/Mac issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

You nailed him. On both counts.

Agreed. But he makes a good living being the supreme Apple fanboy. He's accurate because he makes sporadic predictions, and only when he gets a real tip from true insiders. Goes way too far in flaming those who say even one bad word against Apple. Even called Page, Schmidt, Rubin and Brin f***ing ass****s because Android is not truly open. His act is tiring, frankly.
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post #68 of 131
6/6/11 at 1:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Fine Line View Post

Yeah, I'm with you on this one. I wasn't understanding where the Gruber vitriol was coming from. Can anyone comment?

3/4 of Daringfireball posts are links to other people's articles, with two sentences added, if at all. Gruber is coasting.
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post #69 of 131
6/6/11 at 1:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

So do I, if they can execute it well but that's a big "IF".

Execution worries me too... iDisk has never performed very well, and didn't their main data centre genius quit recently? But on the other hand iTunes Store is pretty reliable. But sometimes you rent a movie and it takes hours to download, and sometimes only 10 minutes, which is weird. Anyway I am excited to see what iCloud is and really hope it works out for them. Just to be clear, server side is the *only* place I sometimes doubt Apple's ability to execute, or at least, don't take it for granted.
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post #70 of 131
6/6/11 at 1:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

The iTunes desktop software (Mac or PC) is the worst part of being an iOS user in my opinion.

All apps are saturated by its hosting OS, and platform app culture. I don't think Lion will change that as drastic for Macs as iOS has done for mobile computing. Therefore the next iTunes/Cloud will probably look and behave like the current iTunes. Boring, I guess.
Its cloud functionality though will be very interesting to follow, and hopefully syncing will become an issue of the past.
And the ever growing media storage will perhaps soon also become an issue of the past.
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post #71 of 131
6/6/11 at 1:53am
I am personally satisfied with iTunes. Not great but not that bad. Cannot name a single client app that better handles a huge library of media. The fact that it is becoming too big has to do with nature of the app itself. This may be why they didn't integrate iBooks into it. But that's a shame. Without books available on iTunes and available only on iOS, iBooks cannot compete with Kindle. With Amazon Kindle, I buy the book once and can read on multiple platforms. Sweet. Perhaps iCloud can fix that too.
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post #72 of 131
6/6/11 at 1:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

3/4 of Daringfireball posts are links to other people's articles, with two sentences added, if at all. Gruber is coasting.

I hear you on that. But then, are we just envious because the man is making an easy living?
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post #73 of 131
6/6/11 at 2:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

Since they don't tell anyone when it gets stolen, there are no examples to point to.

Do you really think that implies their servers can't be broken into?

Now you're getting into dangerous conspiracy theory territory. As in, "the reason we have no evidence of alien visits is because the government has been hiding THE TRUTH from us!!"

I'm not saying that Apple is impervious to attack, or that data has not been stolen from their servers. But it's impossible to prove a negative. In other words, it's impossible for Apple to prove that they've never been hacked, just like it's impossible for you to prove that you've never killed someone. That's why most modern societies have adopted the "presumed innocent" policy. Of course, it's important to be cautious and be careful with your personal data, but it's presumptuous to suspect them of malfeasance without either evidence (heck even anecdotal evidence!) or probable cause. If Apple had a notorious history of playing fast and loose w/ people's personal data (like Google and Facebook have), then I would say you're justified in being suspicious of Apple in the present. But historically, Apple (IMHO) has been a pretty good steward of their customers' personal information and data.
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post #74 of 131
6/6/11 at 2:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

I hear you on that. But then, are we just envious because the man is making an easy living?

I'm envious of anyone who makes an easy living.
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post #75 of 131
6/6/11 at 2:26am
If the Cult of Mac story is correct, it will work just like everyone has been saying, except it won't be Apple's servers it will be your own Time Capsule. It will set itself up as an Internet server.

I wonder if this could be correct?
http://www.cultofmac.com/what-is-ste...-time-capsules
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post #76 of 131
6/6/11 at 2:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

Given a lack of published policy, it's reasonable to assume they don't inform you.

Taken at face value, a lack of policy simply means decisions will be made on a case by case basis. I think it's quite cynical to take it to mean there's a negative policy.
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post #77 of 131
6/6/11 at 2:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

But you're still left with slow or expensive syncing and the pointlessness of syncing when everything is already on your device.

I think the pointlessness or otherwise will depend on the details, let's wait and see. Central file store as such is not inherently pointless.
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post #78 of 131
6/6/11 at 2:54am
The other option is that icloud simply knows what you have and when you select a song it streams it much like Apple TV. You don't upload anything. The problem will be music that you did not buy off iTunes or rip from a CD I'm not sure how it would know if the metadata is messed up or not complete. It would also be hard for those with artists that iTunes does not carry. I'm not sure how Apple will deal with other data, apps, and I don't think movies are part of the deal yet.
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post #79 of 131
6/6/11 at 3:07am
Let's get this straight:

It is often very difficult and sometimes impossible to prove a negative. But you cannot categorically say it is impossible to prove a negative.
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post #80 of 131
6/6/11 at 3:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

Do you think data on Apple's devices or servers can't be stolen?

That will be the one more thing announcement - your data have been stolen.
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