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First taste of Apple's iCloud available with iTunes 10.3, iOS App Store - Page 2

post #41 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

In my opinion today's announcements raise lots of questions about what is tied to an Apple ID. It can't be uncommon for multiple household members to share an Apple ID.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsblair View Post

I wish apple would come up with sub accounts for use in iTunes so that I my kids could each have their own ID and pw and I could put so much of a credit on their account. That way they don't go overboard, but we can all share our purchases.

Interesting points. There are a lot of scenarios where Apple, the record labels, TV/movie distributors, etc., will eventually need to have a policy and some sort of customer service mechanism for resolving:

1. Marriage -- Would Apple allow you to merge your accounts so you can combine your music and apps?

2. Divorce -- Does the judge award the account to somebody? Would Apple issue separate accounts that each have all of the content? Do you have to show Apple a copy of the divorce decree?

3. Sub-accounts for kids -- Would all of the purchases also show up on the parent account? Should that be a Yes/No option?

4. Migrated accounts for kids -- When a kid turns 18, can he take his sub account with him? Does the stuff disappear from the parent account?

Some of this sounds silly, but it's going to come up -- especially as the number of $1k-plus music/app data bases continues to increase.
post #42 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

What about family members? Or do you actually think that people living in the same house should pay for multiple copies of the same content?

They definitely need to make it easy for this service to handle multiple users/multiple accounts.

I'm not saying it's good, I was just explaining how it works as far as I understand it.

I was being a bit sarcastic because I too thought that "Home Sharing" was basically sharing media amongst the inhabitants of my home and was upset to find out when I activated the feature that it really isn't that at all.

At least this is my understanding form the reading of the agreements and setting it up in my home. Everything has to be tied to one ID and the various inhabitants of the house "share" the stuff on that ID, but it still "really" belongs to the one ID only.

The only solution I can think of for folks in this position today, is that "Home sharing" does allow for you to copy files into other people's iTunes accounts. So if all the content under the one ID was copied into the various other iTunes accounts around the house before it was synced, then it might work.

In other words, maybe if you made an new iTunes account and ID for the daughter (or whomever), and then copied "her" stuff out of your iTunes installation, across the home network and into into her new iTunes account, and then synced to the new iCloud, the accounts would then be separate and working with all the stuff separate in her new account but still in your old account? Maybe?
post #43 of 94
That's still a terrible solution since it would require having so many copies of the same media. Apple REALLY needs to figure out a way to handle multiple users, multiple devices, and shared media versus media bought by just one person (not to mention things like playlists and play counts).

And anyone have 10.3 yet? AI, you need to start doing a little fact checking before posting stories.
post #44 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

...Apple REALLY needs to figure out a way to handle multiple users, multiple devices, and shared media versus media bought by just one person (not to mention things like playlists and play counts).....


Clearly we don't have all the facts yet. I just really want to know if members of a household who have been sharing an Apple ID will have to each get their own - and repurchase Apps, etc - to get the full benefits of iCloud.

I don't expect to have that answer today, so I'm going to stop talking about it.
post #45 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porchland View Post

Interesting points. There are a lot of scenarios where Apple, the record labels, TV/movie distributors, etc., will eventually need to have a policy and some sort of customer service mechanism for resolving:

1. Marriage -- Would Apple allow you to merge your accounts so you can combine your music and apps?

2. Divorce -- Does the judge award the account to somebody? Would Apple issue separate accounts that each have all of the content? Do you have to show Apple a copy of the divorce decree?

3. Sub-accounts for kids -- Would all of the purchases also show up on the parent account? Should that be a Yes/No option?

4. Migrated accounts for kids -- When a kid turns 18, can he take his sub account with him? Does the stuff disappear from the parent account?

Some of this sounds silly, but it's going to come up -- especially as the number of $1k-plus music/app data bases continues to increase.

What stands out the most here from this musing, is how awkward and complicated it gets if Apple allows people to share accounts.

I think the reasons you outline here are exactly *why* Apple doesn't really let you share accounts. How would a judge decide (or Apple for that matter), what stuff in "your" account, was "really" bought for your kids or your spouse so as to separate it off from your account after the divorce?

And since the accounts are free, how much work would Apple be letting itself in for if it had to divy up accounts and media files in such situations? The more I think about the practicalities of it, the more I think this will never happen ("true" sharing of accounts).

I think your account is your account and that's it, (regardless of whether you were "sharing" the media with other people in your household).
post #46 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsblair View Post

I wish apple would come up with sub accounts for use in iTunes so that I my kids could each have their own ID and pw and I could put so much of a credit on their account. That way they don't go overboard, but we can all share our purchases.

iOS devices can have content from more than one iTS account (5 is the limit as far as I remember). Your kids can have their own accounts and all apps can be shared.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #47 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsblair View Post

Agree completely. I had an in depth conversation with an APple Store employee in Chicago a week ago about this. We use one iTunes apple account in our household. Between 2 iPads, 3 iphones, and 4 iPod Touches, we all use one apple ID for purchasing apps and music. I don't want to give my kids my Apple ID password for obvious reasons. Apple does have the mobileme family plan which we have and I'm curious to see what happens with the iCloud announcement.

I wish apple would come up with sub accounts for use in iTunes so that I my kids could each have their own ID and pw and I could put so much of a credit on their account. That way they don't go overboard, but we can all share our purchases.

I like your idea. Hopefully Apple is thinking along the same line of thought if not better.
post #48 of 94
It's easier if the parents just set up the kids own account. Give the kids Itunes gift cards if you want them to have money to purchase things on their iOS device.
post #49 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

That's still a terrible solution since it would require having so many copies of the same media. Apple REALLY needs to figure out a way to handle multiple users, multiple devices, and shared media versus media bought by just one person (not to mention things like playlists and play counts).

And anyone have 10.3 yet? AI, you need to start doing a little fact checking before posting stories.

This is a rumors site. WTF? \ You are bringing down the curve for everyone.
post #50 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsblair View Post

Agree completely. I had an in depth conversation with an APple Store employee in Chicago a week ago about this. We use one iTunes apple account in our household. Between 2 iPads, 3 iphones, and 4 iPod Touches, we all use one apple ID for purchasing apps and music. I don't want to give my kids my Apple ID password for obvious reasons. Apple does have the mobileme family plan which we have and I'm curious to see what happens with the iCloud announcement.

I wish apple would come up with sub accounts for use in iTunes so that I my kids could each have their own ID and pw and I could put so much of a credit on their account. That way they don't go overboard, but we can all share our purchases.

Actually you can create sub-accounts on iTunes. It's called iTunes Allowance. Instructions are here: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht2105
post #51 of 94
I'll echo the earlier question: Has anyone actually succeeded in getting iTunes 10.3?

I'm still seeing 10.2.2.
post #52 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

What stands out the most here from this musing, is how awkward and complicated it gets if Apple allows people to share accounts.

I think the reasons you outline here are exactly *why* Apple doesn't really let you share accounts. How would a judge decide (or Apple for that matter), what stuff in "your" account, was "really" bought for your kids or your spouse so as to separate it off from your account after the divorce?

And since the accounts are free, how much work would Apple be letting itself in for if it had to divy up accounts and media files in such situations? The more I think about the practicalities of it, the more I think this will never happen ("true" sharing of accounts).

I think your account is your account and that's it, (regardless of whether you were "sharing" the media with other people in your household).

But this in no way comports with reality of daily life. In the 1990s, did you go buy a CD, and then if your spouse liked it he/she would go buy the same CD? No, you'd just trade it back and forth, or copy a cassette off the CD, etc. One purchase, multiple listeners in multiple settings.

In our case, I was given an iPod as a gift years ago, and so ripped all our CDs (mine, his, ours) into iTunes, under my AppleID. Then got him a Nano for Xmas, but it uses the files that I originally saved to iTunes (I presume its linked to my AppleID, then). Then he gets an iPhone and opens his own AppleID, etc. - it becomes a bit of a who-owns-what mess, but it doesn't make sense that we have to parse every music track and app just on the basis of which account happened to purchase it in a household.
post #53 of 94
The new iTunes agreement states that "a device can only be associated with one account at a time". That seems to mean no more sharing of music if you want a separate iCloud each. It also possibly rules out the ability to put songs purchased on different accounts on one device as you can now...
post #54 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL View Post

iOS devices can have content from more than one iTS account (5 is the limit as far as I remember). Your kids can have their own accounts and all apps can be shared.

You're the second person I've seen posting that info - I had no idea. Maybe I have nothing to worry about...
post #55 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elijahg View Post

The new iTunes agreement states that "a device can only be associated with one account at a time". That seems to mean no more sharing of music if you want a separate iCloud each. It also possibly rules out the ability to put songs purchased on different accounts on one device as you can now...

What would make you think you could have one master account and multiple user accounts with all that file space from the cloud?
post #56 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

You're the second person I've seen posting that info - I had no idea. Maybe I have nothing to worry about...

I've never heard of his info in the four years iOS has existed. I'd be wary.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #57 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

What stands out the most here from this musing, is how awkward and complicated it gets if Apple allows people to share accounts.

I think the reasons you outline here are exactly *why* Apple doesn't really let you share accounts. How would a judge decide (or Apple for that matter), what stuff in "your" account, was "really" bought for your kids or your spouse so as to separate it off from your account after the divorce?

And since the accounts are free, how much work would Apple be letting itself in for if it had to divy up accounts and media files in such situations? The more I think about the practicalities of it, the more I think this will never happen ("true" sharing of accounts).

I think your account is your account and that's it, (regardless of whether you were "sharing" the media with other people in your household).

To me, it should be Multiple IDs sharing a 'single' account (credit card account). The master ID (the one sharing the name on the Credit Card), can assign who to share the account data with.

Eventually, I'd like to see IDs have some sort of access control (mom/dad can keep all the R[ahem] rated movied to themselves;-)), ala ACLs. Children's files in the cloud can be soft locked, but the parents can get the key to unlock, if the proper paperwork is filed (where children have the right of privacy from their parents... in some states that may be as young as 12). Yes that is work, but it's rare. much less rare than having kids that want to share data, and you don't want them to have the password to your credit card enabled account.

I'd love to give each of my kids an ID (and ideally a separate account for their gift cards) with read access nto my ITMS, ideally some sort of spending/auth limit per ID (you can spend $5/month without me needing to approve) and my wife (okay, you get more than $5) as well. And be able to peel off my kids as they reach the age of adulthood. At that point, the 'separation of assets' has to occur. Apple doesn't care, and it could be as easy as 'sync content to your iDevice [in full], create a new account, adhere your ID to that account, assign account to iDevice, upload' Remember, all this stuff is DRM free now.


As for divorce... well to the age of marital assets including 'digital property' (you get the paypal account, and I get iTunes). Again, Apple doesn't care if the dissolution has some assets that get 'copied' (DRM Free). From what I know of divorce... anything that has no 'real' value is counted as $0.00.
post #58 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

What would make you think you could have one master account and multiple user accounts with all that file space from the cloud?

People are discussing wanting to have some kind of separate iCloud for each person (i.e. people living in their house) sharing their ID for music. I'm just trying to clarify that Apple has really ruled it out with the agreement. Many people share their music with their partner, just as you would if you went and purchased a physical CD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I've never heard of his info in the four years iOS has existed. I'd be wary.

It's not a lie, I have purchases from two separate account synced to my iPad and iPhone.
post #59 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimhill View Post

I'll echo the earlier question: Has anyone actually succeeded in getting iTunes 10.3?

I'm still seeing 10.2.2.

Same problem here. I am still disappoint.
post #60 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elijahg View Post

People are discussing wanting to have some kind of separate iCloud for each person (i.e. people living in their house) sharing their ID for music. I'm just trying to clarify that Apple has really ruled it out with the agreement. Many people share their music with their partner, just as you would if you went and purchased a physical CD.



It's not a lie, I have purchases from two separate account synced to my iPad and iPhone.

And when the sharing model moves from the Local Net sharing to the Distributed Many-to-Many model the living in the same house under a One-To-Many shared [NATing] approach to file sharing would result into two options:

The creation of a Master Account [M] with sharing ala the Telcos Family Plan or each member of the family needs to set up their own iCloud account [5GB] [Node=N] and to share [virtually expand their total Music Pool via one virtual drive] that gives one access to M more accounts as an N+M account would require a separate Monthly Service Tier that would have to be flushed out and scaled accordingly.

I sure as hell wouldn't provide cloud services to a Family who buys one 5GB account and then give them M more accounts, each with 5GB, to extend their total account and not get financially compensated. Would you?
post #61 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I've never heard of his info in the four years iOS has existed. I'd be wary.

An iOS device can have content from 5 iTS accounts at the same time.

http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/us/terms.html

"You shall be able to store App Store Products from up to five different Accounts at a time on a compatible iOS Device."
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #62 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggsjm View Post

Any word on whether Apple will allow you to consolidate Apple IDs? I have like 5 that I've used over the past few years. Many are one's that I could no longer use due to losing a domain or a mobile me user name that I lost after discontinuing service.

I had this a while back. They did mine. You have to ask them to do it for you and they will.
post #63 of 94
Interesting. I am able to re-download previously purchased tracks with iTunes on my iPhone but a couple dozen of them are downloaded as 128 Kbps DRM versions. So much for that 256 Kbps business. Also, a few music videos give me a "cannot be re-downloaded" error.

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     197619842014  

     Where were you when the hammer flew?  

 

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post #64 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1984 View Post

Interesting. I am able to re-download previously purchased tracks with iTunes on my iPhone but a couple dozen of them are downloaded as 128 Kbps DRM versions. So much for that 256 Kbps business. Also, a few music videos give me a "cannot be re-downloaded" error.

Not all music has been updated to iTunes + by the record companies, and some music isn't available in the store anymore.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #65 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL View Post

Not all music has been updated to iTunes + by the record companies, and some music isn't available in the store anymore.

I just checked and the music videos are still on the iTunes Store and I've confirmed that at least two of the audio tracks are available as iTunes Plus.

     197619842014  

     Where were you when the hammer flew?  

 

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     197619842014  

     Where were you when the hammer flew?  

 

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post #66 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

I sure as hell wouldn't provide cloud services to a Family who buys one 5GB account and then give them M more accounts, each with 5GB, to extend their total account and not get financially compensated. Would you?

What you're saying doesn't make much sense. Considering it's free anyway, i.e. you don't "buy" your iCloud account, it wouldn't really make much difference to Apple. Songs that that are not on the iTunes store, and thus uploaded, will probably only be on Apple's server once. A Dropbox-like algorithm will be employed so files are compared, and identical ones deleted in the cloud to save space. i.e. A file is uploaded, and has a checksum calculated. Another user uploads a file with the same checksum, and so Apple just links the second user's upload to the first, saving space.

Plus, the users have actually bought the device from Apple in the first place, so it's not like Apple's not getting paid in a roundabout way.

Perhaps they could have a system to share only music between accounts. Then all other data could be separate, but music would stay in sync between devices owned by different people in the family. However, I really don't see the labels allowing that.
post #67 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1984 View Post

I just checked and the music videos are still on the iTunes Store and I've confirmed that at least two of the audio tracks are available as iTunes Plus.

Some are, some aren't not to hard to understand. Things get removed from the iTunes Store all the time. As for the 128Kbps, if this is all they have then this is all they have. Buy the CD and rip a higher bitrate version but please don't start whining about it.
post #68 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1984 View Post

Interesting. I am able to re-download previously purchased tracks with iTunes on my iPhone but a couple dozen of them are downloaded as 128 Kbps DRM versions. So much for that 256 Kbps business. Also, a few music videos give me a "cannot be re-downloaded" error.

I believe you only get the 256kbps AAC with the new Match service at $24.99 a year.
post #69 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

What stands out the most here from this musing, is how awkward and complicated it gets if Apple allows people to share accounts.

Whether apple "allows" it or not, account sharing is a fact of life, particularly among families. And trying to handle a family situation with all separate accounts is no better, in some ways far worse.

The situation exists, and apple needs to figure out ways to handle it or end up with lots of pissed off customers. "Don't hold it that way" isn't really a solution.

Personally I like the proposed solution of sub accounts. And let users split those accounts up later and decide which content goes to which account in those situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

This is a rumors site. WTF? \ You are bringing down the curve for everyone.

WTF indeed. I can't even figure out what you're whining about - if you disagree with something, disagree with it, don't just prattle on without getting anything across.
post #70 of 94
After I download it and try to install, it keeps telling me I just got the 32bit version and I need the 64bit.

Is anyone having this issue? I need the 64bit but for some reason keep getting the damn 32bit.
post #71 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

No. Apple uses the other meaning of "sharing."

When you are "sharing" your AppleID, you are just letting someone else have access to your stuff.

You are not both "sharing" the same ID (the normal sense of "sharing").

I think a lot of folks will be bitten in the bum by this with the new setup. Apple says your "sharing" the account, but the word isn't really being used in the sense most people think it is.

There's almost a transition between 2 systems.

#1: The original goal was just to allow a user's purchase to be played on up to 5 of the user's computers.

#2: The goal now is to allow a user's purchase to be played on all their devices (I think...)

But in between we have used it differently, and it's muddied the water somewhat. Each computer can have multiple iDevices. People have shared AppleIDs - my wife and I share an ID, why wouldn't we when we are listening to music on our single speaker system. I sent my brother a copy of a couple of my apps (he's authorised).

If you want to, the current system even lets you sync bookmarks/calendar/address book using one AppleID, iDisk on another ID, purchasing on a 3rd ID. It all works within Apple's usage model - but when the value of having a single AppleID increases, and if Apple starts storing a single ID in a device - then a single iCloud account is storing my safari reading list, book bookmarks, app settings, music/app/book purchases, my documents, and email - and it starts being really useful for me and my wife to have separate AppleIDs.

So I see where they're going. And it's probably closer to their original intention of how AppleIDs would work. But right now, there are problems with the past AND problems even in Apple's model. For example, if we have a separate AppleID it'll kill homesharing - I want my AppleTV to play content from iTunes on my MBP OR iTunes on my wife's iMac, and I want both our iPhones to be able to remote control the AppleTV.

It'll be interesting to watch this progress. For now we can probably get away with sharing the AppleID a little longer, as long as the OSes allow us to have separate emails.
post #72 of 94
WTF with this? Can they just put damn new version or not?

Which of us is the fisherman and which the trout?

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Which of us is the fisherman and which the trout?

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post #73 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenclaw View Post

Same problem here. I am still disappoint.

Still no dice in d/ling 3.0. \
post #74 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachB10 View Post

My iPad is showing the update in the App Store, but my Verizon iPhone doesn't show any iCloud feature as pictured above at all. Hmm. My iPad also made me agree to new T&C - no update on iPhone.

So far it only works with iOS 4.3 or better. Us Verizoners are still at 4.2.8
post #75 of 94
6;30 pm on the west coast an the above is still true... bad form...
post #76 of 94
I just received the following email:

"Dear MobileMe member,

We'd like to share some exciting news with you about iCloud — Apple’s upcoming cloud service, which stores your content and wirelessly pushes it to your devices. iCloud integrates seamlessly with your apps, so everything happens automatically. Available this fall, iCloud is free for iOS 5 and OS X Lion users.

What does this mean for you as a MobileMe member?

When you sign up for iCloud, you'll be able to keep your MobileMe email address and move your mail, contacts, calendars, and bookmarks to the new service.

Your MobileMe subscription will be automatically extended through June 30, 2012, at no additional charge. After that date, MobileMe will no longer be available.

When iCloud becomes available this fall, we will provide more details and instructions on how to make the move. In the meantime, we encourage you to learn more about iCloud.

Sincerely,

The MobileMe Team"


I currently use 20gb of iDisk space for sharing large files with my clients. After I upload all they have to do is click the link that's sent to them and it's done, quick n easy. What will become of this service? Will it all go to the cloud instead and continue, in a sense, as it is now? Will Apple up the, pathetic, 5gb to 20 once again? Or is Apple going to do away with iDisk altogether?

As far as cost/no cost this bring back memories of the .Mac / MobileMe transition. Once you sign up you've basically sold your sole. Nothing's for free.
--------------------------
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"Why join the navy if you can be a pirate?"
-Steve Jobs
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post #77 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

For example, if we have a separate AppleID it'll kill homesharing - I want my AppleTV to play content from iTunes on my MBP OR iTunes on my wife's iMac, and I want both our iPhones to be able to remote control the AppleTV.

You can still do these things with multiple AppleID's. You just need to use one of the AppleID's for logging into the Home Sharing account (in iTunes) on both of your Macs and also on the AppleTV and the Remote App on the iPhones. Think of it like this. AppleID is for each of your individual purchases and libraries but HomeSharing is a way for you to share the things you have independently bought with each other and your iOS devices in the same household. My wife and I use Home Sharing in all of these ways you describe above. We both have our own AppleID's. We both buy and maintain our own iTunes Libraries. We share our stuff using Home Sharing. Both of our libraries show up on the AppleTV. We can control our AppleTV with any of our iOS devices. I have some of her music on my iPhone. She has some of my apps. etc... That's how Home Sharing works.
post #78 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony1 View Post

Once you sign up you've basically sold your sole.

No small feet.
post #79 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by slinberg View Post

No small feet.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #80 of 94
I am not able to download itunes 10.3, at this point silly for Apple to be have links on their website to be advertised as avail. and it not be... Whats going on over at Apple?

They didn't finish the app compilation yet or what?
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