or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Wireless carriers reportedly surprised by Apple's iMessage feature
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Wireless carriers reportedly surprised by Apple's iMessage feature - Page 4

post #121 of 145
I'm really wondering how much the telcos will actually lose.

To begin with if you have an iPhone (or any smartphone really) you usually have text/picture messaging thrown into the plan anyway. I really wonder how many smartphone users have restricted messaging plans? Heck which smartphone user doesn't have unlimited (or effectively unlimited) messaging plans these days? This might reduce overages perhaps but since it's not cross-platform, it won't be sufficient for people to get rid of their messaging plans anyway.

And sure there's whatsapp, liveprofile, Google Talk, AIM, etc. but you still can't message a dumbphone with any of those. And the vast majority of phones out there are still dumbphones.

BBM didn't kill off text/picture messaging for Blackberry users (though it did curtail it somewhat). And iMessage won't kill off SMS/MMS for iPhone users either.

One interesting effect that my brother noted when he got a Blackberry was that he now uses SMS more often because his messaging habits became more like his BBM habits. A whole conversation of one line messages back and forth. He got so used to it on BBM that he would do the same thing when communicating with SMS.
post #122 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

If you are not an iOS user you don't deserve to get texts from me. Upgrade or be content with boring phone calls

You're forgetting that calls usually cost a lot more than SMS.
post #123 of 145
Awesome.....LOL.... sms or text plans are a total freaking scam. I actually still use a first gen iPhone.... but I think I'll finally upgrade for this feature... as well as the automated synching between my iPhone, iPad... and two iMacs. Just need to finish learning how to use my OS X server so I can use it as an iTunes server and start buying movies online instead of via DVD. I don't think any of us will truly be able to appreciate what all if this is going to do until we get it in our hands. Kind of like when you first got an iPad. At least it was that way for me. I thought it was cool but didn't realize just how useful and helpful it was until I had one for my own.

You think Ballmer is coming up with the next great idea for Ms now? hmmmmm.... ms cloud.... LOL. Jobs and Apple do such a great job of jumping 5-10 years ahead of everyone every time they introduce something new. Makes me laugh.... Good Job Apple...
post #124 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

You're forgetting that calls usually cost a lot more than SMS.

Yes... but it's one of those things where it's the principal of it. When you can send emails until you chew up your entire lot of bandwidth.... but if you text someone more than your allotment, then they're charging you 10-20 cents for a couple bits of data. That's why we all despise it. We're not talking some kind of technological wonder ware here.... we're just talking about a few bits of data... so it's still a rip off IMO too.

It's the nickel and dime technique..... how is it that my 800 minute cell phone package that costs $59/month (I think).... actually end up being closer to $100 each month?.... and I have tons of rollover minutes left.
post #125 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphodsplanet View Post

Awesome.....LOL.... sms or text plans are a total freaking scam. I actually still use a first gen iPhone.... but I think I'll finally upgrade for this feature... as well as the automated synching between my iPhone, iPad... and two iMacs. Just need to finish learning how to use my OS X server so I can use it as an iTunes server and start buying movies online instead of via DVD. I don't think any of us will truly be able to appreciate what all if this is going to do until we get it in our hands. Kind of like when you first got an iPad. At least it was that way for me. I thought it was cool but didn't realize just how useful and helpful it was until I had one for my own.

You think Ballmer is coming up with the next great idea for Ms now? hmmmmm.... ms cloud.... LOL. Jobs and Apple do such a great job of jumping 5-10 years ahead of everyone every time they introduce something new. Makes me laugh.... Good Job Apple...

Really? What idea is 5-10 yrs ahead? All I saw yesterday was a bunch of features that already existed in one shape or another implemented nicely by Apple but nothing really innovative nor ground breaking.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #126 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

It would take quite a bit of texting to bump up data usage significantly! I wish them luck with that...

They'll just increase pay per use/a la carte data rates to compel people to subscribe to data plans.

And you'll be suprised how much data you can use on one of these services. Keep in mind that it's not restricted to just texts. Wait until friends start sending you pictures or videos, your data usage will go through the roof.

Apple may be costing the carriers SMS revenue but with this, the OTA updates, iCloud, Apple has ensured that every iPhone users will need at least a 1GB data plan.
post #127 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Listen to me. Apple has given everyone on the planet free infinite texting.

And free infinite e-mail, and free infinite instant messaging, and free infinite Skype messaging, and free infinite Twitter direct messaging.

Free 'text messages' have existed the moment smartphones were born, the problem was no agreed standard (do I Skype, Twitter, MSN or e-mail to reach person X?) and no immediate notification as SMS have (naturally you can setup notifications for any texting protocol but there is no guarantee that your opposite correspondents has), you cannot switch off notifications for SMS, and no fallback for dumbphones.

Apple's approach of transparently integrating iMessage into SMS/MMS means it:
a) no need to agree on a texting protocol with anybody, it falls back to SMS on non-iOS phones
b) immediacy
c) fall-back for dumbphones
post #128 of 145
Most everyone I know has an iOS device of some kind and uses it TM me. I'll definitely be canceling my TM plan as soon as iMessage comes out. The telecos are taking money for TM that they have no right to ask for. A TM is as much a part as a data plan as anything else. It's disgusting what they have gotten away with.

One more reason to be excited for iOS 5!
post #129 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

And free infinite e-mail, and free infinite instant messaging, and free infinite Skype messaging, and free infinite Twitter direct messaging.

What do those have to do with anything? They've always been free. There's an inherent difference in what iMessage promises to deliver.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #130 of 145
There is very little SMS spam because SMS is costing the spammer, this opens the gate for iMessage spams (though you'd really need a Mac client for this for the spammer to operate easily).
post #131 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

What do those have to do with anything? They've always been free. There's an inherent difference in what iMessage promises to deliver.

But you did not touch on what that difference was.
post #132 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

But you did not touch on what that difference was.

Why do I even have to say it? Honestly.

Texting. Costs. Money. Money that no one should have to pay and that no one needs to pay any longer. iMessage also isn't a separate application. It's inline with everything else. If you still have to send SMS during your (immediate circle of contacts) period of transition, you don't have to go somewhere different or change any settings to do so. You send SMS when you need to send SMS and you send free iMessages when you're able to do so. Eventually you won't be sending any SMS and you'll get to cancel that plan.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #133 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac.World View Post

For which version of Android should Apple create a specific client?

All of them
post #134 of 145
We can't drop SMS altogether. There're tons of services and competitions that uses text messages as a form of revenue and entry requirements. I would be most happy if my regular competition entry make use of iMessage.
post #135 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by samban View Post

All of them

Either let their own developers make them (for free or no one will install) or,
Apple stepping on GOOGLE territory like what they did with Maps, Voice etc. on iOS and make this app which includes within this app iAD impressions for revenue, a way to maintain iMessage user base and to gather Android user data (they don't mind/care with this bit, do they?).
post #136 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

There's an inherent difference in what iMessage promises to deliver.

And that difference is that it is limited to iOS devices (similar to facetime).

Unlimited free texting is good, but unless they make it able to talk to other devices many people are still going to need to keep their text plan. Why not come up with something that talks to other text message protocols (same with facetime, why not make it talk to the other protocols so it's that much more useful)?
post #137 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Oh, yeah. That's happening this side of 1994, that's for sure.

The idea behind iMessage is that in less than a year, too many people you know won't have anything but iOS devices.

Listen to me. Apple has given everyone on the planet free infinite texting.

If that doesn't instantly appeal to the younger scene, I don't know what does.

Seriously, I really don't know what appeals to kids these days. Do they still text out the wazoo? Then their parents will buy them iOS devices so they don't have to pay out the ear for texting plans. And then they'll get them for themselves so they can message back and forth.

Free text. Images. Video. FREE. INFINITE. The carriers are dead.


I haven't researched this YET, but it seems to me, that Apple is merely THROWING DOWN THE GAUNTLET.

Sure, this probably only works with Apple Devices now -- but it also means, that carriers or devices NOT having unlimited messaging, are going to get a "what's the deal?" from their customers.

It's a lot like the DRM-free gauntlet, the "I can actually browse the web on my phone" gauntlet, and the "I don't have to pay for each user" Gauntlet (for Mac OS X Server -- that was more of a small glove because it didn't get much traction).


>> I don't think Carriers are dead -- but Apple is treating them more as a Network. All the ISPs are trying to be Netflix, so they charge for bandwidth and add caps so that THEIR content is cheaper -- I think Apple is trying to PREVENT the same thing with Cell Phones.

>> I don't think Apple thinks it is going to monetize Messaging, nor was it planning to REALLY make much money from selling Music -- it's about creating a distribution model for their Customers. The REAL money is in Distribution -- so if the Wireless Carriers -- I mean, what we now "call" Cell Phone Providers, do nothing but set up Pay Tolls, it's up to the Cell Phone manufacturers to set up ways to navigate around.

I predict, that just with the Music providers, the Cell Phone companies are going to miss the boat -- not that they aren't VERY aware of this already, but their PROFIT is all at the expense of the Consumer -- NOT in creating better networks, or ease of use, or anything else -- their business model is PAY TOLLS, and they've treated Text Messaging as a Golden Goose.

>> Basically, their GOOSE is cooked -- but the Cell Phone companies are nowhere near dead. Instead of trying to keep getting revenue off of their toll booth, they need to EXPAND how people use communications and data -- and they could make a lot more money from ME if they had unlimited bandwidth and tethering and better connections, so that MORE devices were using cell networks, rather than more people trying to bundle into the same family plan.


PREDICTION:
>> There will be a behind-the-scenes scuffle about this, but Apple is being coy and Smart and their going to FORCE the Cell Phone providers to ask them to "turn off this feature." So it will probably only work on a Wireless Network at home. I think the same thing kind of Happened with Amazon.com's electronic books, and some of Googles apps as well. Apple puts out a feature that "oops, I'm sorry, were you charging for that?" and then the customer says; "Well, why does it cost money when X can do it for free?"
post #138 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Why do I even have to say it? Honestly.

Texting. Costs. Money. Money.

that no one should have to pay and that no one needs to pay any longer. iMessage also isn't a separate application. It's inline with everything else. If you still have to send SMS during your (immediate circle of contacts) period of transition, you don't have to go somewhere different or change any settings to do so. You send SMS when you need to send SMS and you send free iMessages when you're able to do so. Eventually you won't be sending any SMS and you'll get to cancel that plan.

You said there is an inherent difference between the 'texting tools' I mentioned (e-mail, MSN, Skype, Twitter) and iMessage. But your first mentioned 'difference' here and in your first post is money, which is exactly not a difference between 'traditional' texting tools and iMessage as they are all free.
post #139 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

And that difference is that it is limited to iOS devices (similar to facetime).

Unlimited free texting is good, but unless they make it able to talk to other devices many people are still going to need to keep their text plan. Why not come up with something that talks to other text message protocols (same with facetime, why not make it talk to the other protocols so it's that much more useful)?

Probably because:

A) That would actually be breaking their Terms Of Service with the cell phone providers.

B) It's going over the SMS channel -- so it is no longer free unless they use an Apple messaging server to send out the SMS over the internet -- so that means; "see A" above.

C) I'm guessing this is more of an add-on to benefit THEIR users, and it's not just about free messaging. It's just an easy add-on because they HAD to make it happen for their iCloud strategy to work anyway. Updating an 'addressbook' or calendar entry, is basically a fancy text message anyway.


IN this day and age of service fees and copyright -- just because something CAN be done and it is BETTER -- well, that probably means their are 13 lawsuits that would prevent if from taking place. Patents and Copyrights are the biggest hindrances to innovation these days, and of course, "service providers" are the biggest hindrances to Customer Service.
post #140 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

Wireless Carriers offer a ubiquitous texting service...which is easy to use, always on, and works with any texting device.
.


ubiquitous, depends on who they have signed agreements with...
Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
Reply
Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
Reply
post #141 of 145
People seem to be missing the point here. The benefit of iMessage isn't primarily that you eliminate the small charge for sending an SMS between iPhones - though that is a benefit.

A bigger deal is that iPads and iPods that don't have SMS are supported as both senders and receivers, out of the box, with no fuss or 3rd party apps required.

Also there's additional convenience because you will be able to communicate with any iOS device globally, irrespective of carrier agreements.

Possibly most important of all you will be able to set read receipts. I have to stress how useful this is - texts can be extremely unreliable, especially international texts. I've had texts that take hours, sometimes even over a day to get through. There is nothing more frustrating than being stood at an airport terminal, waiting for a friend and not knowing if they never got your text, if you never got their text, or if something else happend
post #142 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

You said there is an inherent difference between the 'texting tools' I mentioned (e-mail, MSN, Skype, Twitter) and iMessage. But your first mentioned 'difference' here and in your first post is money, which is exactly not a difference between 'traditional' texting tools and iMessage as they are all free.

And as I said later in the paragraph, none are integrated into the legacy SMS system. As iOS users grow, your immediate circle of friends will be able to receive fewer SMS and more iMessages until you finally have no need for SMS at all. Then everyone drops their texting plans.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #143 of 145
I would image that most iPhone users also know other such users will find their SMS usage drop dramatically with the way iMessage will work.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #144 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Really? What idea is 5-10 yrs ahead? All I saw yesterday was a bunch of features that already existed in one shape or another implemented nicely by Apple but nothing really innovative nor ground breaking.

You kinda remind me of a guy who's article I read on ZDnet today. Sore loser and was just bashing Apple and everything just released. No... it's not an iPad or an iPod.... but it's the simplicity of bringing it all together so seamlessly. Something I can't say the same for with Windblows 7. I've managed not to have to touch a PC for almost 5 years now.... and OMG. The stupidity that is Windows 7 is an endless headache.

So ya gonna synch your Zune with the MS cloud and your PC? Ops... didn't they stop making the Zune... the iPod killer?

What's so "great" about it.... is that it will enable all my devices to work together without me having to mess with them. And guess what? That saves me tons of time. Not like the insanity of trying to make sure an HP laptop running win 7 was actually up to date... or if it wasn't?.... or if this software I had never heard of before was actually something to check the versions of things... or if it was a virus.... and then trying to install another application while dealing with the endless.... and I mean freaking endless stupid pop up windows that come from everywhere and anything ... for God only knows what.

Back when I was stuck using a PC... there were times where I actually hoped I'd get within arms reach of Gates or Ballmer so I could punch them in the nose. Literally... the tens of thousands of dollars in my wasted time messing with their crappy software is an insult to humanity. Their products have always sucked and still do I've now found out. With my Macs.... uh... they work and don't waste my time. What Jobs and Company have done is just take it all a step further. And like I didn't appreciate the iPad nearly as much before getting one... I'm sure I can't do true justice to the benefits all these tweaks make across the board until I've made the updates.

Which I can't wait to do.
post #145 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

People seem to be missing the point here. The benefit of iMessage isn't primarily that you eliminate the small charge for sending an SMS between iPhones - though that is a benefit.

A bigger deal is that iPads and iPods that don't have SMS are supported as both senders and receivers, out of the box, with no fuss or 3rd party apps required.

Also there's additional convenience because you will be able to communicate with any iOS device globally, irrespective of carrier agreements.

Duly noted..... and I hadn't thought about the text on iPad.... will be very very cool....
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Wireless carriers reportedly surprised by Apple's iMessage feature