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Wireless carriers reportedly surprised by Apple's iMessage feature - Page 3

post #81 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

There are no differences in utility between iMessage and BBM? I'm not well versed in BBM so I'm honestly asking, but from what I can tell iMessage uses Apple's messaging servers, like FaceTime, but then uses open protocol standards for the service.

On top of that it looks like iMessage has NAT that will allow not just Apple's cellphones, but all their other products to connect to each other as if they are same. Does BBM have the rich media option and letting you know when someone is typing? Is BBM even an IP service?

Yes it does tell you when the other party is typing. It's routed through RIMs servers, there's no character limit, one can send pics, videos and audio files over it. The biggest advantage Apple has is the ability for all IOS devices to use the service. I'm pretty sure the Playbook does not support BBM.
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post #82 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigi View Post

With iMessage and Facetime, I do not recognize Apple on that point.

Why they bring Facetime when they got already iChat. Why they bring iMessage when they got already iChat.

Why iMessage doesn't talk to Mac too?


Why not just put iChat on the iPhone with all the same feature of iChat on the Mac. Then you got video, text, file transfer etc...

now it's like a mess, on the Mac we got iChat and Facetime. On the iPhone, Facetime and iMessage

It look like the department work all in their corner without talking to each other, it look like microsoft strategie

You should recognize this as it has Apple's DNA all over it. iChat is already on the iPhone from 3rd-parties as Meebo, Beejive, etc. All iChat and other such apps do it connect to another companies IM service. FaceTime and now iMessage are Apple's messaging system. There servers! There setup, not just their wrapper UI connecting to someone else's system.

Now that iMessage has been made available I wouldn't be surprised to see it launch on Lion before too long the way FaceTime is built into Lion.
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post #83 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

Apple needs to release an Android client for this. Too many people I know do not have iPhones.

It's called Google Talk, it's available on most OS's which include Android and Iphone.
post #84 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Yes it does tell you when the other party is typing. It's routed through RIMs servers, there's no character limit, one can send pics, videos and audio files over it. The biggest advantage Apple has is the ability for all IOS devices to use the service. I'm pretty sure the Playbook does not support BBM.

With the number of people that have iOS-based iDevices but use Windows for their PC Apple could release an iMessage/FaceTime client for Windows and put a hit on AIM, Yahoo, GTalk, and Skype. I can't help but wonder if this is an afterthought attack on MS' Skype purchase.
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post #85 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

With the number of people that have iOS-based iDevices but use Windows for their PC Apple could release an iMessage/FaceTime client for Windows and put a hit on AIM, Yahoo, GTalk, and Skype. I can't help but wonder if this is an afterthought attack on MS' Skype purchase.

Man that would be killer.
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post #86 of 145
/edit

"Wireless carriers reportedly surprised by sudden, loud sucking sound when looking through customer accounts"
post #87 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexus View Post

It's called Google Talk, it's available on most OS's which include Android and Iphone.

I hadn't really paid attention to Google Talk/Google Mail recently. Thanks for mentioning it. There's a lot of changes in there since last year.

http://mail.google.com/mail/help/about_whatsnew.html
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post #88 of 145
I saw a T-Mobile commercial while watching the Heat beat the Mavericks and it was the best cell phone commercial yet. Especially the end where the guy is being held upside down, "sent too many emails!"

Reminded me of the old "I'm a PC" Apple commercials. It's how I feel every month. ATT and Verizon are bad companies!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YS7gTk2M7M

iMessage is just the first step for Apple. Apple got the Music industry to accept single songs sales and cheaper albums compared to CD's. Apple is now working on the Movie/TV/cable industry and now they have set their sights on the cell phone companies. First step was to make the iPhone available on all carriers. Hopefully Sprint will offer the iPhone for $79/mo unlimited. Sprint would get so much business. I wish Apple would buy Sprint.

Best
post #89 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You should recognize this as it has Apple's DNA all over it. iChat is already on the iPhone from 3rd-parties as Meebo, Beejive, etc. All iChat and other such apps do it connect to another companies IM service. FaceTime and now iMessage are Apple's messaging system. There servers! There setup, not just their wrapper UI connecting to someone else's system.

Now that iMessage has been made available I wouldn't be surprised to see it launch on Lion before too long the way FaceTime is built into Lion.

Why not migrate iChat on their own server??? and unify all that mess in one app called iChat?

In Lion, their is a new thing for ichat that nobody talks about, they now made possible to install plug-in. I see that on the screen behind Phil Schiller when he describe some of the 200 new feature of Lion.
post #90 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Seriously? You act like this is new. People with BBs have had this for years and the carriers are alive and well.

This is different. You'll question how (or even just ignore that it is). Okay. That's fine. But this is Apple about which we're talking. Blackberry's the old way of doing things. We'll see teens buying iPod touches because they text more than they talk. We'll see tens of millions of texting plans cancelled and texts blocked to devices.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #91 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

This is different. You'll question how (or even just ignore that it is). Okay. That's fine. But this is Apple about which we're talking. Blackberry's the old way of doing things. We'll see teens buying iPod touches because they text more than they talk. We'll see tens of millions of texting plans cancelled and texts blocked to devices.

No I clearly see how it's different but it's definitely not new. Even at the height of BBs popularity they didn't hurt the carriers nor will Apple. Teens are constantly on the move and iPods need a wifi connection. I doubt they'll give up their constantly connected devices for a iPod.
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post #92 of 145
So BBM has what, like 50M active users? Pretty sure iMessage will dwarf that number by the end of the year. Once it becomes the number one messaging platform, RIM is on a burning platform.
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post #93 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCMacUser View Post

Actually if I remember my GSM specs correctly, SMS isn't treated as data per say, it's sent on a bearer channel, so really it costs the carriers nothing, MMS maybe different, but a strait txt msg, pure profit. So I don't doubt they aren't happy but it's not all bad, as Apple's message app I would assume will use your data plan..

They still get their blood, just alittle less...

SMS is sent over the carriers "Overhead" on a Channel. Bascially it is not sent over the carriers "Payload", MMS uses Data connections but the carriers do not charge for Data for those on a SMS/MMS plan.
post #94 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

If you are not an iOS user you don't deserve to get texts from me.

Spoken like a true jack ass...this is a great feature but we need competition, I am glad there are people that like Android, BB, WinPh7 and so on and I hope they all survive and compete - Were it not for Android, we woulda never seen half the cool stuff that we got in ios 3 4 and now 5 because why spend the dev money when there is no one to compete with? Long live Google and RIM...Keep out innovating eachother, the race benifits everyone!
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post #95 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by mplaisance View Post

SMS is sent over the carriers "Overhead" on a Channel. Bascially it is not sent over the carriers "Payload", MMS uses Data connections but the carriers do not charge for Data for those on a SMS/MMS plan.

Yep. From my understanding, SMS travels on the signals the phone uses to maintain a connection to the tower. Which is interesting, because the big carriers in Canada are planning to increase SMS fees from 15 cents to 20 cents later this summer. This is a textbook definition of an uncompetitive market.
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post #96 of 145
Text messaging should be free. It's just another type of data.

The failure of the cell companies is in not thinking about the phone as a computer sooner. They had to know this day was coming.
post #97 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Final nail in RIMs coffin...

I watched the keynote, and they showed a nice pie chart with iOS representing 44% of the mobile OS market, with Android being -- I'm guessing -- something like 30%, and the rest being "other."

"Other," my friends, is RIM, predominantly.

When I saw that chart I thought, "boy, if apple had that "other" wedge, too, they would really have the upper hand, a true majority.
post #98 of 145
6.6.2011

Apple > we haz iMessage

Carriers > we iz surprizd

6.7.2011

Carriers > o wait. we r betraid

Customers > o rly? we were gouged. thnx aapl. bai carriers - lrn 2 valu custmrs

---

I mean seriously - does anyone else get the impression that while Apple makes money by delighting their customers that the carriers view theirs as nothing but a revenue stream to optimize?

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post #99 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

This sounds a lot like FaceTime for text. Which is to say it seems like it's using the same basic server setup and network protocols just with considerably lower bandwidth and packet QoS requirements.

PS: The only mention of FaceTime appears to be from Schiller when referring to Lion. I would bet Face will be more prominently mentioned hopefully with open sourcing in the September event.

The proprietary to Apple device texting is actually alarming to me, makes me skeptical that Apple will ever fulfill their promise to open up facetime. If they opt to keep FaceTime locked in a box then I for one will be looking to alternatives like Skype, which is sad because I don't really care for Skype. Only a few people in my family have a Mac or iOS device & a world where everyone uses Apple is just not realistic.

Overall the messaging isn't that impressive to me at all, in fact I thought it was a waste of presentation time. We've long had IM & group chat via jabber services that are completely open & free. for a few bucks I can get an app that lets me facebook chat with people too, & far more people use facebook than have an iOS device. Sorry Apple, the chat feature to me was a huge yawner, especially since it is 100% proprietary to Apple hardware. BIG FAIL!
post #100 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKpro View Post

Yep. From my understanding, SMS travels on the signals the phone uses to maintain a connection to the tower. Which is interesting, because the big carriers in Canada are planning to increase SMS fees from 15 cents to 20 cents later this summer. This is a textbook definition of an uncompetitive market.

Rogers already did their increase a couple months ago.

And yes, SMS ride on the control channel. Routing might add some overhead, but transmission itself is free.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/business/28digi.html

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post #101 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

Apple needs to release an Android client for this. Too many people I know do not have iPhones.

That would be hilarious:-)
post #102 of 145
I've already got unlimited SMS/MMS as part of my plan so this doesn't really affect me.

Also in Australia we don't pay to receive SMS/MMS, it seems to be an American thing.
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post #103 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhReallyNow View Post

That is, except for the husbands who fool around on their wives, but also share an Apple ID with them. They won't like this feature one bit.

They make a new Apple ID. Problem solved.

My only don't like on this one is that it is a separate app. I think it would have been much better if they had rolled SMS, iMessage and Mail into one app. Especially since they have the same basic interface. They could have done an "All Messages" box like they have for All Inboxes in mail now. Or you could go into them style by style.

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post #104 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

I've already got unlimited SMS/MMS as part of my plan so this doesn't really affect me.

Also in Australia we don't pay to receive SMS/MMS, it seems to be an American thing.

It's primarily an American thing because we like to monetize everything, it's how we roll.

Canada is stuck with the same problem but that's because Anti-trust regulators weren't really paying attention until their telecom market was gone.

I've heard that every time that the government starts a new telecom company and releases it on it's own that it ends up being devoured, usually by Rogers I believe.

But again, I've only heard things like so. Canadians care to comment?
post #105 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

As soon as I saw them messaging between iPad and iPhone, i wondered how this would work. Would the iPhone have two separate messaging apps, one called iMessaging for chatting between iOS users and another called Messages for everyone else?

From the sounds of it there is one app. The first time you try to message someone it sends a little query into the system to see if that person is registered into it via an iOS device. Yes, then it uses iMessages, no and there's a mobile phone number it sends a regular text. All in about 2 seconds that you don't even notice go by.

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post #106 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinglesthula View Post

6.6.2011

Apple > we haz iMessage

Carriers > we iz surprizd

6.7.2011

Carriers > o wait. we r betraid

Customers > o rly? we were gouged. thnx aapl. bai carriers - lrn 2 valu custmrs

---

I mean seriously - does anyone else get the impression that while Apple makes money by delighting their customers that the carriers view theirs as nothing but a revenue stream to optimize?

I am by far NOT an advocate for the carriers but realistically we need them. Of course it's in their best interest to gouge us, because where can we go? Wifi, you say? Who provides it? Ummmmm, a carrier. We will always need them to carry our service. Wanna be delighted? Try going without a carrier for a week. You'll quickly be delighted and impressed when you start receiving your phone calls, SMS/MMS, emails, etc...when the week is up. And don't kid yourselves Apple is not going to buy a carrier.
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post #107 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dullblade View Post

Why does someone have to remember it? Let the iphone do that. Doesn't it already? There is the option to list an iphone number in the contacts already.

Still, that's two apps. If you were to review someone's text from yesterday, for example, you'd have to know which of two apps to check. Let's say you want to send a group message and one has an iOS device and one doesn't.
post #108 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

No I clearly see how it's different but it's definitely not new. Even at the height of BBs popularity they didn't hurt the carriers nor will Apple. Teens are constantly on the move and iPods need a wifi connection. I doubt they'll give up their constantly connected devices for a iPod.

No, but they'll give them up for an iPhone with texting blocked. Texting plans are now dead thanks to the sheer number of iOS devices. This will be particularly useful for iPad users.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #109 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by enjourni View Post

Text messaging should be free. It's just another type of data.

The failure of the cell companies is in not thinking about the phone as a computer sooner. They had to know this day was coming.

Texting is free in many countries. But not in Amerika.
post #110 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhReallyNow View Post

That is, except for the husbands who fool around on their wives, but also share an Apple ID with them. They won't like this feature one bit.

Exactly my thought! It'll be like quietly picking up the phone in the bedroom to listen to someone else's phone call - hubby's typing away on the iPhone, so I blithely pick up the iPad "to play a game" and follow the conversation!
post #111 of 145
For the folks not happy that this is iOS only, use iMessage and download an app like Textfree that gives free texting and MMS to any phone on any network (that's what I use now). Then you can cancel your AT&T or Verizon texting plan. It really is as simple as that.
post #112 of 145
If iMessage eventually supports other services, like Google and BBM, it would be even better. In the same way that iChat supports AIM and MSN.
post #113 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuzumu View Post

Wait.... *trying to find sympathy for the wireless carriers*, nope, nothing. Suck it Verizon, AT&T et al.

I can't disagree. The fact that AT&T doesn't include texting in its data plans is infuriating. I finally got the $5 plan and started going over in a few months. I finally got the unlimited thing. I'm also grandfathered into unlimited data for now, at least.
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post #114 of 145
My parents both have LG phones, my wife has a Samsung, most of my friends and clients have phones other than and iPhone. If I drop SMS from my plan, I could txt with three people. Until everyone on the planet has the same cell phone, these closed loop, proprietary systems won't be vary useful to me.

Just my two cents.....
post #115 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawson100 View Post

Back on topic - I can only see it adding to confusion if someone has to use two separate text messaging apps and remember who has an iOS device and who doesn't. Even if they were to develop an Android app (really?!) it still excludes too many people.

It's just yet another instant messaging application.
I understand wanting to undercut the carriers, where SMS are priced way over data,
but releasing yet another messaging app, limited to one OS (iOS) seems just lock-in for unaware apple customers.

SMS are popular despite the cost, because they are end-device neutral.
While Skype/MSN/Google Talk/and all the various chat app have specific platform requirement.

if iMessage becomes yet another multi-protocol IM app
able to text chat with other clients, while offering a superior experience for those on the same platfmor (eg switch to video) then it may be a good thing.
post #116 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, but they'll give them up for an iPhone with texting blocked. Texting plans are now dead thanks to the sheer number of iOS devices. This will be particularly useful for iPad users.

And how many people do you believe will do that? Just reading this forum tells me not many.
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post #117 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

And how many people do you believe will do that? Just reading this forum tells me not many.

Funny, I've not seen a single thing that suggests that here.

But we don't matter, anyway. The people here aren't the ones about whom I'm speaking.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #118 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by edoard View Post

It's just yet another instant messaging application.
I understand wanting to undercut the carriers, where SMS are priced way over data,
but releasing yet another messaging app, limited to one OS (iOS) seems just lock-in for unaware apple customers.

SMS are popular despite the cost, because they are end-device neutral.
While Skype/MSN/Google Talk/and all the various chat app have specific platform requirement.

if iMessage becomes yet another multi-protocol IM app
able to text chat with other clients, while offering a superior experience for those on the same platfmor (eg switch to video) then it may be a good thing.


Couldn't agree more. Although, I think it's more than just gullible IPhone users becoming locked into yet another closed system. Apple really could make their messaging platform ubiquitous, and more powerful, and more useful for their users. They may yet make a platform agnostic messaging app but I doubt it. They are all about "closed", "complete control of user experience" etc. but wrt to SMS that makes just about as much sense as restricting the Apple's mail client to only email other Apple mail clients.

But I fully understand why they now mimic BBMS. Apple simply wants to lock in their customers, provide incremental value and frankly there is nothing wrong with that even though I'd prefer otherwise. Although it's amusing to read the few morons on this forum who probably truly believe Apple is doing it for merely altruistic motives.
post #119 of 145
The only thing I wonder about iMessage... am I going to have to specifically open iMessage separately from texting? I don't want to have to think about whether or not I'm texting someone with an iOS device. Apple's iMessage webpage DOES use the same icon that the text/mms app currently uses, so here's to hoping.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar View Post

How is this different from something like Textie? Am I missing something here? Textie has the extra ability to send free texts to non-iPhones.

Do you just not bother reading articles?

Yes, in some ways it's like the myriad free texting apps out there. But it also has:
Video/Pics/Contacts
Pushing to all devices (continue convo on any iOS device)
See when the other person is typing
Read Receipts
Works on Wifi (not sure if current free texting apps do this?)
Encryption (end to end)
post #120 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

They make a new Apple ID. Problem solved.

My only don't like on this one is that it is a separate app. I think it would have been much better if they had rolled SMS, iMessage and Mail into one app. Especially since they have the same basic interface. They could have done an "All Messages" box like they have for All Inboxes in mail now. Or you could go into them style by style.

It's not a separate app. It's built directly into the messaging app.

http://www.apple.com/ios/ios5/features.html#imessage
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