Sony's next-gen PlayStation Vita priced to compete with iPod touch - Page 2

Show me a full fledged game like this on iOS and i think its safe to say that iOS games are not comparable in the slightest.

249 is a very reasonable price considering the hardware that you're getting, and against the competition which is mainly the 3DS. While an iPod Touch would be overall more capable due to the App Store, a Vita would be chosen for its obvious main purpose which is gaming while the iPod Touch would not.

Vita is a gaming device with multi-media tacked on, while the iPod Touch is a multi-media device with gaming tacked on. As a gamer the decision is easy, as a regular consumer with 250 bucks to burn the decision gets a hell of a lot tougher.

I never heard of Texels comparison before, since a Texel is a texture elements of unspecified size it's absolutely meaningless to used this as point to compare 3d performance.

And the Raytracing demo from Sony was demonstrating CPU performance only.

But you're right about title, the iOS don't got lots of big title yet, but games like Infinit Blade, Dead Space and Real Racing have already prove the iPad and iPod Touch are successful and powerfull enough gaming devices for the mass. The iPad is already more powerfull than 3DS and PSP go, and pretty much the same DNA of the new Vita.

I got better graphics in Infinity Blade and Dead space on my iPad 2

To me, that uncharted screenshot doesn't actually look all that impressive. Surely it's a much more interesting game to play than inifinity blade on iOS, but it doesn't look better. in fact, it looks worse than epic citadel on my 3GS.

Graphics like this should be perfectly possible on an A5 powered iPod touch. Also, remember that right now, handheld games are constrained more by CPU power than GPU. You can scale down graphics to compensate for fill rate and polygon throughput and you don't need too much of those on a small screen with a relatively low resolution anyway. You can't scale down AI, physics, and other game logic without compromising gameplay though, and in the Sony Vita case it all remains to be seen how much better this elusive 4-core CPU is for games.

I'm not saying the Vita (man I hate that name, what idiot came up with that?) won't be the most powerful handheld when it launches, but it won't be for too long, and its specs won't automatically declare it a victory for Sony. A handheld console platform should last at least 5 years or something, but within a year after its release, every smartphone will have similar specs. I really think Sony is heading for a big disappointment.

let''s try something a bit more familiar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixAyLhD5s0U

The black AppleTV is the best thing since sliced bread. Use a netflix account. It's better than any netflix streaming on xbox, playstation or any other platform. Netflix and Apple are the only ones using HTTP streaming instead of RSTP. And this ends up in a picture quality quality that is 2x higher than what you can watch on xbox with HD.

We watch nothing but AppleTV using netflix w/Apple's great UI in the bedroom. Any movies we download that aren't from iTunes I stream from our desktop computer or from my iPhone to the AppleTV. It's fantastic.

Everyone I know in northern california (silicon valley) has one, even the xbox engineers use the AppleTV with there iPhones for streaming pictures, video, music from the iPhone to the device. With iOS 5 we're all running around playing group games showing on the office HDTV.

It's not about performance. I work in a lab with a SUPER computer that's the #5 fastest on the planet.
Yet if I put you in front of the console you would quickly leave because the software doesn't allow you to do anything but command line calls.

It's about the UI, Sony and Nientendo fail because they never understand that it's about the beautiful user interfaces, they win people over, they make them iPhone lovers, Mac lovers, people who refuse to leave the platform for any reason because it's the first time they used something that just worked, that remembered where they left off, that functions without any learning curve.

I agree with you 100%.

And since in the gaming console world is up to the game developer to recreate the user experience for every game, Nintendo and Sony have to maintain very little OS without any standardize UI API for developer to use in their project. Nintendo nor Sony got a OS that can do more from launching a game.


Apple heard you, with iOS 5 you will be able to do video mirroring thru Airplay.

I'd possibly be interested in it to get the exclusives - if they put Heavy Rain, LA Noire and Uncharted on it, I'd be interested in it and I think that price is very competitive.

I don't think it would sway casual gamers at all but you don't really make a device like this for casual gamers. The reality is that iOS still doesn't have a single title that holds up to the likes of Uncharted or Little Big Planet and there is a big market out there for people who want immersive titles with long gameplay.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. While the NGP gets Uncharted the best we have on iOS has little more complexity than Tetris. While it may ultimately fail like the PSP, the dismissive comments from people that quite possibly think that every game is a Mario game (or Bejeweled) don't exactly improve the image gamers have of Apple users..

That's just a stupid thing to say While I agree that Infinity Blade looks overall almost on par, it uses fewer polygons and a static world compared to Uncharted

What disturbs me the most is how no developer seemed to have created a good control scheme for FPS's on iOS. Really, there are ways to make it almost as easy to control as a analog+shoulder button combination, but no one seems to care...

It's a theoretical maximum fill-rate so will use the most basic forms of texturing to measure it. The real-world rates will vary based on how you process the textures but all the manufacturers try to score the highest amounts so in the end they all use a common yardstick. It is to some extent another of those marketing tags like clockspeed but they can at least give some indication of relative performance. There are many factors to consider:

http://planetquake.gamespy.com/View.....Detail&id=209

Advanced shader processing performance is something that doesn't get mentioned much and plays a big part in how modern games look. You can sometimes get an idea from the number of SPs and their clockspeed but again, they are hard to compare, even with actual GFLOP stats it's difficult.

The PS3 is undoubtedly faster than the XBox theoretically but most of the time, XBox games look better. LA Noire was the first game I've heard of that turned out better on the PS3.

It's not how much performance you have but how you use it and my only criticism of the iOS platform is how developers are not using the performance they have to make great games.


It demonstrates the scalability of graphics depending on resolution. What I was saying was that although the iOS devices and even the NGP have lower theoretical performance, it's countered by their lower screen size so they can achieve visually comparable graphics output to the big consoles.


I think the iOS devices are perfectly capable for gaming but they need better games. Not just visually better games but games with depth. Most of the big franchises have easily identifiable stories, characters or art styles. Like if I mentioned Splinter Cell, you'd know about Sam Fisher, Echelon, NSA, JBA, the multi-vision goggles, the stealth gameplay, the interrogations, the rappelling, the snake-cam and always having to hear about something happening to Sam's daughter. If I mentioned Infinity Blade then you just think about swiping a sword around. There's no depth to the games.

Developers have of course made Splinter Cell Conviction for the iPhone and it's not bad (comparable to PSP versions), but most of the time, you get the impression developers don't try as hard with the iOS platform as they do with the well-established game platforms. Likely because they are held to a higher standard by Nintendo and Sony. With the App Store, almost anything goes. Not to mention the driving down of the selling price as a result.


Can it run /usr/bin/Crysis?


I'd say that much is true for the multi-function parts but when it comes to games, isn't buying an off-the-shelf game, plugging it in and playing easier than trying to hunt through a pile of mostly terrible low-quality apps, where you just get Angry Birds advertised at you all the time, followed by a download/sync process and then tap the app to open and it crashes because you just have an older iPod or iPhone?

I think Apple needs a filtering system. I know people will say that it's unfair to automatically set a game from EA apart from e.g the first-time development efforts of a single autistic kid (especially considering the games would likely be of a similar calibre) but really, we have to accept that games take time and resources and if a game studio ploughs hundreds of thousands of dollars into a game, it will most likely have better production values.

I'm not saying filter apps/games based on studio but based on effort. If an app just turns on the flashlight, give it a tag of 'low-utility' and let me ignore these apps. If I want to find a specific 'low-utility' app then I'll go looking for it. Until then, I want to browse apps that people have put some effort into.

This task is made harder by the popularity of mind-numbingly basic games but as long as they are categorised properly (which they aren't - according to iTunes, Tetris is an action game) then it would help.

Lol wut? Mass Effect 3? Uncharted 2? Killzone 3? (last 2 are exclusive, yes, but look better than Halo and Gears)


Someone has got to take the first step. Once the money starts rolling in the publishers will finally allow more resources to be spent on iOS games. Infinity Blade was a nice start in the graphics area...


... and there's the next step.

EDIT: also remember that "games generally look better on 360" because 1- they are mostly developed for 360 and simultaneously ported to PS3 and 2- that little "free antialiasing" chip

IMO, the most impressive game controller I've ever seen is coming from Nintendo. Forget Sony. The totally cool capabilities are highlighted about mid way thru the stage presentation video. So just ignore the boring opening minutes.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/07/t...ller-revealed/

Seems to me that these handheld units are on the way out in favor of the touch and iPhone. Games from the App Store now fill out every level... free, cheap, moderate and expensive.

the beautiful user interface that leaves your view impeded with fingers?

Analogue sticks have an awful lot going for them

i have been a loyal cutomer of the ipod touch sine the 1st gen (currently on the 4th generation got every gen there was) i had never really wanted the iphone. the thing that i have always wanted is 3G connectivity option because the device depends on the internet a lot i never wanted the 3G ipad because it was too big and im an extremely mobile person and would like to just tag songs on sharzam on the go, i never understand why people act like they have wifi signal cooming out of their as*. anyway now sony did it (3G option) they have just sealed the deal for me..

do you honestly believe this? i suspect you weren't serious in this remark.

the boundaries between cheap, moderate and expensive are quite arbitrary. as such, one can easily categorise games available on the PlayStation Network (PSN) into the same levels of cheap, moderate and expensive.

Why do you think Sony has been getting hacked so much lately? its because they pissed off the hardcore / geek community.

Basically, it went down like this:

Sony sold the PS3 promoting the ability to run linux on it as one of its features.
Sony then decided to drop linux functionality, and released the PS3 Slim without linux support.
George 'GeoHot' then published a workaround to reenable linux functionality of the PS3 Slim.
Sony sues GeoHot.
In the course of the lawsuit, Sony gets permission to confiscate GeoHot's computer, his paypal records, as well as the IP addresses of anyone who has visited his website.
Hardcore / Geek community gets pissed.
Sony taunts them, telling them to 'bring it on.'
Sony's databases starts getting hacked.

While I can understand Sony's position, the way they handled this entire ordeal has been a PR nightmare.

Links:
Sony drops linux support:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ps3...ack,10035.html

GeoHot sued:
http://www.dailytech.com/Geohot+Fail...ticle20645.htm

Court gets IP addresses:
http://psgroove.com/content.php?837-...t-Site-Vistors

Geeks get pissed:
http://www.dailytech.com/Anonymous+E...ticle21282.htm

and the rest... well, just google "Sony hacked"

The reason they were hacked is because there are a lot of tossers in the world.

The amount of people that purchased the PS3 to install Linux is very small, next to nothing. If these people wanted to continue running Linux on it, they had the option, the didn't have to install the update which got rid of it.

The Other OS feature wasn't advertised as a big feature, in fact due to the large number of extra features they provided us over the years it didn't worry me one bit that they removed it.

Just because they have an issue with Sony's business practice doesn't give them the right to commit criminal acts, and inconvenience millions of users.

And what you got against Dead space? or Epic citadel?. My point was iOS device can out perform current gen of mobile gaming device and can handle without any trouble bigger games.

Ok I admit, they got a lot of stuff in their "home screen" but they don't have a lot of API for developer and tool box for making small apps, once the OS boot up a game, everything need to be redefine by the developer, you can't reuse basic UI elements from the home screen.

Beside, look at the ugly Wii IOS slot mess and you will know Nintendo is unable to maintain a full OS.

game consoles are not typically designed for small apps


UI elements of the XMB interface is available to game developers. you apparently don't own or have used a PlayStation 3 for any appreciable amount of time so please don't spread misinformation.

which has nothing to do with your assertion that the Sony brand is toxic.

I admit never used or developed on the PS3, I've base my argue mostly on the Wii where I got a lot more knowledge on how his IOS works. I wanna to point out how the hardware gaming industry is lethargic those days, beside Nintendo no one is really stepping forward to present the next generation of game console, the current generation has been here for almost 6 year now and no one showed plan for the future. So I think single purpose gaming console is on its end and new gen console should be a lot more open to apps and online market place, Sony and Nintendo currently doesn't own such ecosystem for making developer outside gaming realms jump in like mobile platform currently does.

BTW your remark aren't totally right, while you can implement XMB interface within a game for accessing some feature like friend list or music but XMB API it's no UI API for making apps with.

But not free... one of the largest selling points for parents when deciding which device to buy.

Every generation of consoles has had on average a 5 year lifespan, some a little more. No one is "lethargic", it's just nintendo took the plunge first. They really haven't had any proper 3rd party support well, since before the N64 era, and they're trying to claw that back.

In fact the last 2 generations have already started with someone getting launch at least a year ahead of competition.

which is an absolute non-issue because the in-game XMB feature (available as of firmware 2.41 released three years ago in mid-2008), gives developers the necessary access to the OS interface.

a demo is a game; they are free on the PlayStation Network (PSN)

Like you said, the average life span for console is 5 year (could be more). Still, at this point we should have a glimpse of new console from Sony and Microsoft. Normally those 2 company made hasty announcement, and have to bring to developer infos about new hardware at least a year before releasing a new console. So the current gen are here to stay a year or two at least.

I still think the gaming console industry has become lethargic, Nintendo got a new console for being on par with the Xbox360 and the PS3 graphics. Sony and Microsoft are still riding on the motion capture hype. No one got a clue for next gen console.

Huh? my point was PS3 and Wii OS are weak and need much better APIs for developer to being able to bring more developer and more interest for a dying model industry. The next console war would not be about which bring the most powerful console but who will got the better ecosystem. Developers and killer apps are the key factor for any success, if third party doesnt support your hardware, you will fail no matter how good your platform is. And multiplying mandatory accessories does not help, right now it start to become a developer nightmare to port PC game and make good use of all different stuff on all consoles (PS3 Move, the WiiMote and Kinect).


I dont think SpamSandwich was referring to demo of game, which they are there to incite you for buying the full game. there is not much freebie games on PSN and Wiiware.

More cores are better than less, period. You make it seem as if 4 is somehow a large number, yet console developers have been coding on Cell which has 7 SPUs for years now.


Nope.


It hasn't shrunk at all. In North America the DS, a dedicated console, is still the highest in portable revenue. In Japan the DS and PSP do better than home consoles. When people talk about gaming as a billion dollar industry they're not talking about free or $0.99 iOS games. Perhaps the occasional iOS gamer won't feel the need for a portable console, but the gaming market in general will respond to it.

I would agree here, I think part of the problem is developers don't really know what consumers want.

You have a game about a doodle jumping on some platforms raking in over $3m and one about birds flying at pigs shipping 300 million units.
You have a hardcore war game making $1b but costs on the order of > $100m to make and ship.
You have obsessive online multi-player games like WoW with ~12 million people paying all the time ($250m/year) but limited to PCs mostly.
You have gimmicky interactive games like Wii Sports and Kinectimals which entice non-gamers but still sell well.

To maximise the profits, it obviously pays to cover as much as you can and the Wii U looks like it's trying to but it ends up looking quite clumsy.

I think in the long term, the mobile devices will win out and I was sort of hoping Sony would just have the PS Vita as their only console with some WiDi-like connection and then have a 3-year upgrade cycle with backwards compatibility but the big consoles still have some advantages.

subjective; not fact.


a gaming experience, at no cost to the consumer, is available via PSN.