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"Let's Fight To The Death For Tax Cuts For Billionaires" That's "DUMB" America.

post #1 of 15
6/7/11 at 5:03pm
Thread Starter 
"The economists arguing for a minimum-wage boost compared it to stimulus action, saying that it pumps money into local economies and can even lead to job growth. Such an increase is like food stamps or unemployment benefits in that the recipients, who tend to be low-wage workers and their family members, usually have to spend the money rather than sock it away.

"The labor market absorbs the minimum wage," said Reich. "Turnover goes way down when there's a minimum-wage increase. Employees -- when they stay longer, they'll be more experienced and more productive. And the employers will have lower turnover costs."

According to Shierholz, jacking the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $8.25 would give a raise to 10 million workers, including many currently earning their state minimum wage. That could ultimately pump as much as $9 billion into the economy, she said. "At a time like this, there is nothing else putting upward pressure on wages.
~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_872617.html

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #2 of 15
6/7/11 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

"The economists arguing for a minimum-wage boost compared it to stimulus action, saying that it pumps money into local economies and can even lead to job growth. Such an increase is like food stamps or unemployment benefits in that the recipients, who tend to be low-wage workers and their family members, usually have to spend the money rather than sock it away.



The "economists" who said that are either not really economists, they are idiots or they are lying in order to find out who is ignorant enough to believe what they said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

"The labor market absorbs the minimum wage," said Reich. "Turnover goes way down when there's a minimum-wage increase. Employees -- when they stay longer, they'll be more experienced and more productive. And the employers will have lower turnover costs."



Here again, this statement gives us evidence of Reich's economic ignorance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

According to Shierholz, jacking the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $8.25 would give a raise to 10 million workers, including many currently earning their state minimum wage. That could ultimately pump as much as $9 billion into the economy, she said. "At a time like this, there is nothing else putting upward pressure on wages.
~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_872617.html



What's most unnerving is that you (and others) actually believe this claptrap.

Geez.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #3 of 15
6/7/11 at 8:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post



The "economists" who said that are either not really economists, they are idiots or they are lying in order to find out who is ignorant enough to believe what they said.

Proof? Or lie of your very own? My guess is the latter.

Quote:
What's most unnerving is that you (and others) actually believe this claptrap.

What's unnerving is predetermined idiots dismissing it offhand, without a second thought.
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post #4 of 15
6/7/11 at 9:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Proof? Or lie of your very own? My guess is the latter.

What's unnerving is predetermined idiots dismissing it offhand, without a second thought.

It doesn't require (nor is it worthy of) a second thought. It goes against pretty much all that's understood about basic economics.

Proof? Read about the laws of supply and demand. Read about marginal utility. You might also read about marginal labor productivity.

The problem here is that there are people running around in this world that think that economic reality can be suspended by a combination of good intentions, wishful thinking and a dash of legislative fiat. It can't. Every attempt to do so ends in failure but not before usually inflicting some pain and misery onto unsuspecting victims...usually some of the very people the good intentions were meant to help.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #5 of 15
6/7/11 at 9:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

It doesn't require (nor is it worthy of) a second thought. It goes against pretty much all that's understood about basic economics.

Wrong. It goes against the simplistic understanding that you have of basic economics. Which pretty much is limited to "supply side, free market good, demand side, bad." That's honestly the absolute limit of your understanding. In other words, you are ignorant.

The fact that you state demand side doesn't even deserve a second thought only drives the fact of your selective ignorance home.
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post #6 of 15
6/7/11 at 9:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Wrong. It goes against the simplistic understanding that you have of basic economics. Which pretty much is limited to "supply side, free market good, demand side, bad." That's honestly the absolute limit of your understanding. In other words, you are ignorant.

The fact that you state demand side doesn't even deserve a second thought only drives the fact of your selective ignorance home.

Your misconceptions of my understanding and knowledge of economics aside, you can get back to me when you do have some and demonstrate it. Your profound ignorance of this subject area is showing, particularly in your misunderstanding of the things I was pointing you to.

More succinctly: You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

I'm so tired of trying to educate marxists and socialists. You guys could at least pretend to try.

Do some reading and study. Or don't. I don't really care. I gave you three or four key economic subject areas to start with that will help a lot. I'd add some reading about price controls (that would summarize those other areas into the specific subject of the effects of wage controls.) Maybe you'll do something with that. Probably not though.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #7 of 15
6/7/11 at 10:46pm
Haha, you grouping all Social Democrats and Keynesian thinkers into "Marxist and Socialists" doesn't help your case.
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post #8 of 15
6/8/11 at 3:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Haha, you grouping all Social Democrats and Keynesian thinkers into "Marxist and Socialists" doesn't help your case.

Exactly.

He doesn't know what those words fucking mean.

OR

He's insanely partisan.

Either way, it's hard to take his OUTRAAAAAAGE seriously.
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post #9 of 15
6/8/11 at 4:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Haha, you grouping all Social Democrats and Keynesian thinkers into "Marxist and Socialists" doesn't help your case.

Actually there's a clear connection. Both groups basically believe society can be arranged however you want and people are just little pawns you can manipulate on your way to utopia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Exactly.

He doesn't know what those words fucking mean.

OR

He's insanely partisan.

Either way, it's hard to take his OUTRAAAAAAGE seriously.

Would it help if he pissed himself? Does that make one's outrage serious? It seems to be the bar you carp about in all the other threads.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #10 of 15
6/8/11 at 5:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Actually there's a clear connection. Both groups basically believe society can be arranged however you want and people are just little pawns you can manipulate on your way to utopia.

You've nailed it of course. To elaborate further the whole "social democrat" mindset it fundamentally and essentially rooted in marxist thinking about capitalism and its weaknesses (as Marx saw them) and the classes (capitalists and labor) and the allegedly "exploitive" nature of these relationship between these classes. Furthermore, many of the proposed solutions from so-called "social democrats" are rooted in Marxist solutions as well.

Essentially they're afraid of and embarrassed by being lumped into that category (and should be) so they cling to a new label that doesn't sound so bad and seems okay to the vast majority of people who don't understand it's underlying political-economic view of the world and philosophy.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #11 of 15
6/8/11 at 6:47am
Let's not make this another urination contest. Raising the minimum wage at present is stupidity. It will cause employers to hire fewer workers. Anyone that thinks we can help solve our economic problems by jacking up the minimum wage has got to be on crack.

The end.
To save time, assume I know everything.
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To save time, assume I know everything.
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post #12 of 15
6/9/11 at 1:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


Would it help if he pissed himself? Does that make one's outrage serious? It seems to be the bar you carp about in all the other threads.

Trumptman, you're undoubtedly the expert on clenching your fists and stamping in a puddle of your own piss in these parts, so you tell me.
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post #13 of 15
6/9/11 at 2:44am
Wouldn't it be hilarious if it turned out that supply-side conomics was actually one of Karl Marx's ideas?
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post #14 of 15
6/9/11 at 5:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Wouldn't it be hilarious if it turned out that supply-side conomics was actually one of Karl Marx's ideas?

It would be even more hilarious if those who were critical of it understood the concepts behind it.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #15 of 15
6/9/11 at 6:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Wouldn't it be hilarious if it turned out that supply-side conomics was actually one of Karl Marx's ideas?

Do you actually want to discuss something, or just argue? The OP argued argued for a one dollar increase in the minimum wage, which he says will benefit the economy because people will spend it. I say that's incredibly stupid and wrong, and that it will have the opposite effect.

Discuss.
To save time, assume I know everything.
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To save time, assume I know everything.
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AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › "Let's Fight To The Death For Tax Cuts For Billionaires" That's "DUMB" America.