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Apple planning massive 12,000 capacity "spaceship" campus in Cupertino - Page 2

post #41 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

Cube made of bricks can be beautiful if done right. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Art is all subjective. Some people can look at a blank canvas and see absolutely nothing and other people can look at that same canvas and see something amazing.
post #42 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Art is all subjective. Some people can look at a blank canvas and see absolutely nothing and other people can look at that same canvas and see something amazing.

Art is universal. When something is really beautiful it's really beautiful. You can have your own opinion all you want but it's just that: opinion. But what you're really wrong is.. if anything, the importance of architect is somewhat underrated.

PS: and if you think brick is ugly, two words: Mario Botta.
post #43 of 304
now has a west coast response to the Pentagon.

As to solar, it looks like they've gone with a structural glass roof across the entire thing. I would be surprised if some of that light doesn't penetrate deeper into the structure through light wells and more use of structural glass - as Jobs notes during the presentation - Apple have a lot of experience using monumental architectural glass.

Using sunlight to naturally light interiors is far better than inefficiently converting it to power, then inefficiently converting it back into light.
post #44 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowededwookie View Post

Because solar is still extremely inefficient. There is more power from a gas turbine than could be made with a massive array of solar panels which is actually an environmental nightmare when you're talking about so many trees.

The reflection from the panels will make those trees a ticking time bomb and I'm sure that's exactly what California needs is more risk of fire.

Uh, you really don't understand how solar works at all, do you?

Trees catching on fire? Really? Go work out the geometry and learn that even if they were 100% perfect mirrors that the reflected light doesn't go anywhere near the ground. (And solar panels are designed to be the opposite of mirrors - their entire purpose is to collect as much sun light as possible, not reflect it back.)

------

I think what Google did with solar was quite admirable, and wish that Apple did more of the same. Unfortunately solar panels are generally at odds with aesthetics, which is why they aren't part of the Big Donut. It appears that they could be slated for the buildings that run along I-280, but that wasn't called out. In any case, there would still need to be an additional power source since solar probably couldn't supply all of Apple's needs.
post #45 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

I don’t understand the questions of residents’ gains and free WiFi? Sorry I am not American.

I read some of your comment and I still don’t understand. Please Lighten up on things.

Do the “council” have the power to say no? And why would they say no?

I didn’t watch the video yet. I hope it was a joke. It seems Jobs was threatening them who is in charge, who is more powerful and who pays their salary.

No problem, watch the video, then come back to this thread.

It's the other way around. In the USA, anyone (literally, if you watch the video) can become a city councillor. And in this case, it wasn't a case of Steve saying, DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM???, he was respectfully presenting the plans and answering questions, of which some were legitimate concerns, and some were silly like the city councillors wanting free iPads and what not.

As you are not American (and neither am I, though I have travelled a lot), you would normally assume Steve Jobs would walk in there and "threaten" them. Like I said, in most developing countries, someone like Steve Jobs wouldn't even have to show up. Whatever he wanted, the government (country, state, city, village, whatever) would simply bow to whatever his wishes were.

I'm living in a country where you can't even be Prime Minister if you are not Muslim, even if you are a citizen. And this ain't the Middle East. The government recently paraded all the Christian church leaders out in front of the media as they were accused of "plotting to put a Christian Prime Minister in power".

Anyway, with regard to the actual approval process, I'm sure someone more familiar with Silicon Valley can comment. They can say "No", but that would be suicide for the city. All they need to do is due dilligence, or at least show some of that if it's just rubber-stamping the approval.

Steve has had a lot of problems with another city, well, town, in this case Woodside, with regards to his plan to demolish an old house of apparent historic value which he bought. I think this Cupertino presentation was a big PR and perhaps an expression of "wanting to play by the rules" move to make sure no problems crop up with the new Apple campus.
post #46 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

It's in California, a lot of commies and liberals live there. They were looking for free handouts.

Your not doing too well today with your comments, perhaps you should just just take today off... Gesh.
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post #47 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

But what you're really wrong is that.. if anything, the importance of architect is somewhat underrated.

I'm not really saying that though. The wrong architect or a bad architect on a particular project can be disastrous. I was mainly trying to say that it doesn't take a genius to come up with a square or a rectangle or a circle shaped structure.
post #48 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

I wish I could recount some of the stories I heard about the custom architecture of the NeXT campus back in the day, but I don't have time right now.

One aspect of all that glass that I'm not fond of is the heat load from the sun. If not done properly the south-facing rooms all have their blinds drawn most of the time, and the air-conditioning becomes a huge operating cost. I would hope and assume that the architects know all this and compensate accordingly, but I would rather see something in that climate with a lot more shade overhangs.

(I've spent summers in Silicon Valley, and it typically hovers around 80-90 degrees fahrenheit for five months out of the year. Corporate architects and clients often have more design ego than brains, and I don't think Jobs, for all his accomplishments, is above this.)

Does any one know whether some of the glass panels are actually solar panels? May be that could be a surprise SJ did not want to reveal !!
post #49 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

now has a west coast response to the Pentagon.

As to solar, it looks like they've gone with a structural glass roof across the entire thing. I would be surprised if some of that light doesn't penetrate deeper into the structure through light wells and more use of structural glass - as Jobs notes during the presentation - Apple have a lot of experience using monumental architectural glass.

Using sunlight to naturally light interiors is far better than inefficiently converting it to power, then inefficiently converting it back into light.

While true about natural light being nice, most office modern buildings even need cooling in the winter. Remember, all the computers, lights and people add up to alot of heat. It's only on the weekends or long shutdowns of the building that heat would be required.
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post #50 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

Did you watch the entire presentation?
Do you realize the 'green' efforts and accomplishments that Steve has lead Apple to achieve?
Is your home solar powered?

No, my home is not solar powered. Then again, I do not employ 12,000 of some of the best employees on the planet and make billions of dollars in profit each month.

The design and the efforts made into the new Apple campus is significant. I'm just saying it's not on the absolute cutting edge of "green buildings".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

It's in California, a lot of commies and liberals live there. They were looking for free handouts.

Aw come on, everyone wants free iPads and free WiFi, not just commies and liberals

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

At the Cupertino City Council, they ought to treat him like Jesus. He just proposed an environmental improvement, a sensitive architecture landmark and 12,000 jobs?!

This is one of the kind of things preventing the absolute collapse of Western civilisation. That one of the richest and most powerful men on Earth can be humble (at least outwardly) and at least give an appearance of "playing by the rules", is... hopeful.
post #51 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I'm not really saying that though. The wrong architect or a bad architect on a particular project can be disastrous. I was mainly trying to say that it doesn't take a genius to come up with a square or a rectangle or a circle shaped structure.

Architects generally do more than draw a simple geometric shape on paper and hand that in.

The fact the end result looks so simple and part of the landscape is part of the reason you hire them - they know what they're doing. It's all about the size relative to other structures, the angles and curves and edges and lines and making sure that it is engineeringly possible.
post #52 of 304
So... Anyone want to be the window washer for this place?
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post #53 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

Did you watch the entire presentation?

Do you realize the 'green' efforts and accomplishments that Steve has lead Apple to achieve?

Is your home solar powered?

Seriously. Anyone not thinking that this is a green building is smoking some of that weed.

He mentioned natural gas as their primary power source. Probably to power Bloom boxes (fuel cells) which can be switched to renewable fuel sources.

http://www.bloomenergy.com/products/

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...ted;photovideo
post #54 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Y.M.S.BUSHAN View Post

Does any one know whether some of the glass panels are actually solar panels? May be that could be a surprise SJ did not want to reveal !!

It was the "One More Thing"... If he had said that the crowd in the city council building would have gone wild!

"But there is... One More Thing... Notice how the building is shaped like a particle accelerator. Well, that's exactly how we're going to generate our own electricity. We call it, iCollider. By 2020 all our Apple Retail Stores around the world will be powered by their own iCollider nano, and available to the public in 2025.

Just like we make our own hardware to take advantage of our amazing software, iCollider will only power Apple-curated appliances, devices and transportation, because we want the customer to have the best renewable energy experience possible.
"
post #55 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Y.M.S.BUSHAN View Post

Does any one know whether some of the glass panels are actually solar panels? May be that could be a surprise SJ did not want to reveal !!

I don't think curved glass is effective as a solar panel.
post #56 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

The councillors were of course just asking some due diligence questions for the sake of PR and procedure, etc... Apologies for my prior race-related comment if it was offensive.

But certainly the councillors were almost squealing like schoolgirls, how many office campuses put a smile on their face like that.

This whole thing was like William Shatner going to some Star Trek nerd's basement to help out in a scene they were recreating (ala Galaxy Quest).

You can imagine the only reason why Apple is in Cupertino is because Steve grew up there and doesn't want to move. As hinted by some of the councillors, one can only imagine what other mayors, governors and heads of states of all kinds of countries would have offered Steve. For example ILM has a Singapore office now, met a guy that just moved there from the SF Bay Area when I went on holiday to a popular Malaysian island (not too far from Singapore).

If it was not for all the talent, Apple could move to some country that is no income taxes. Or just keep the R and D in CA and move the headquarters to a tax free country or principality like Monte Carlo. Manufacturing is in China anyway. CA has hi confiscatory taxes on top of the Fed taxes. Not to mention a sense of entitlement especially with the politicians! Yea, free WiFi!
post #57 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

Architects generally do more than draw a simple geometric shape on paper and hand that in.

The fact the end result looks so simple and part of the landscape is part of the reason you hire them - they know what they're doing. It's all about the size relative to other structures, the angles and curves and edges and lines and making sure that it is engineeringly possible.

I agree with everything that you wrote. I was mainly referring to the initial design idea. Of course it would take a whole lot of knowledge to build that simple looking circle and make it structurally sound, aesthetically pleasing, environmentally friendly etc.
post #58 of 304
I thought the point of being off the grid was interesting. Not sure I understand that. If the main grid goes down due to earth quake most likely gas will be shut off. I get the impression it's a jab at the rolling blackouts that occur during peak usage times in heat waves. Google and others have some fuel cells, i wonder if thats what is in mind? Thoughts anyone?
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post #59 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Maybe I've missed this one, but do they have a pyramid somewhere yet?

Haven't you heard, Apple bought the Louvre. Just last week I think.
post #60 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Aw come on, everyone wants free iPads and free WiFi, not just commies and liberals

Cheap people could always just head on down to their nearest Starbucks or McDonalds if they want free wifi.
post #61 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Cheap people could always just head on down to their nearest Starbucks or McDonalds if they want free wifi.

I know, I know.

Like I said though, sadly, in most parts of the world, giving an official an iPad 2 or iPhone 4 is *literally* all you need to do to get your building project approved.
post #62 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

No problem, watch the video, then come back to this thread.

It's the other way around. In the USA, anyone (literally, if you watch the video) can become a city councillor. And in this case, it wasn't a case of Steve saying, DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM???, he was respectfully presenting the plans and answering questions, of which some were legitimate concerns, and some were silly like the city councillors wanting free iPads and what not.

As you are not American (and neither am I, though I have travelled a lot), you would normally assume Steve Jobs would walk in there and "threaten" them. Like I said, in most developing countries, someone like Steve Jobs wouldn't even have to show up. Whatever he wanted, the government (country, state, city, village, whatever) would simply bow to whatever his wishes were.

I'm living in a country where you can't even be Prime Minister if you are not Muslim, even if you are a citizen. And this ain't the Middle East. The government recently paraded all the Christian church leaders out in front of the media as they were accused of "plotting to put a Christian Prime Minister in power".

Anyway, with regard to the actual approval process, I'm sure someone more familiar with Silicon Valley can comment. They can say "No", but that would be suicide for the city. All they need to do is due dilligence, or at least show some of that if it's just rubber-stamping the approval.

Steve has had a lot of problems with another city, well, town, in this case Woodside, with regards to his plan to demolish an old house of apparent historic value which he bought. I think this Cupertino presentation was a big PR and perhaps an expression of "wanting to play by the rules" move to make sure no problems crop up with the new Apple campus.

Have you watched the entire video?

This was not the first time many of the councillors, city planners/building department were apprised of Steve's plans. The formal presentation to the councillors is a standard protocol for any developer, particularly of this magnitude.

Amazing the number of folks here are of such high levels of expertise to be directing Steve, Apple, the City Council and community members of what, how and when to do things. And that is without even watching the video, let alone being apprised of the many meetings with individual council members and onsite presentations to the various city departments that are involved in the licensing/permitting necessary to even start the project, let alone build it.
post #63 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Seriously. Anyone not thinking that this is a green building is smoking some of that weed.

He mentioned natural gas as their primary power source. Probably to power Bloom boxes (fuel cells) which can be switched to renewable fuel sources.

http://www.bloomenergy.com/products/

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...ted;photovideo

You are correct, it won't be green ... The color.
There are many levels of 'green' design. Didn't know they published this designs goals yet, have a link?

Yes, could be the bloom boxes, but renewable.... Gas? Not much around. The main benefit is they are not outrageous in price compared to other fuel cells, and in theory lower maintenance. It will be interesting.
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post #64 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morky View Post

I like the green space inside the circle. Looks like a beautiful walled garden!

To me it looks like a halo.
post #65 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morky View Post

I like the green space inside the circle. Looks like a beautiful walled garden!

Haha it is a beautiful walled garden! withs its own ecosystem
post #66 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

Have you watched the entire video?

This was not the first time many of the councillors, city planners/building department were apprised of Steve's plans. The formal presentation to the councillors is a standard protocol for any developer, particularly of this magnitude.

Amazing the number of folks here are of such high levels of expertise to be directing Steve, Apple, the City Council and community members of what, how and when to do things. And that is without even watching the video, let alone being apprised of the many meetings with individual council members and onsite presentations to the various city departments that are involved in the licensing/permitting necessary to even start the project, let alone build it.

Exactly.
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post #67 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

I thought the point of being off the grid was interesting. Not sure I understand that. If the main grid goes down due to earth quake most likely gas will be shut off. I get the impression it's a jab at the rolling blackouts that occur during peak usage times in heat waves. Google and others have some fuel cells, i wonder if thats what is in mind? Thoughts anyone?

Well, in 2000-2002 the rolling blackouts in the SF Bay Area was really shocking to me when I was there. I mean, all these major companies having to shut down operations or at least revert to backup power. At work our web team had to keep changing links on various company websites to point to the colocated servers instead of the in-house servers. This was the time when a lot of smaller websites could be run off in-house servers. Of course, today so much is in the "cloud".

It's obvious this campus is designed to be off-the-grid because of clean energy goals and also because Steve doesn't want any amazing, visionary work to ever be dependent on the mainstream energy companies. I hope they're earthquake-proofing it to the max as well.
post #68 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

Have you watched the entire video?

This was not the first time many of the councillors, city planners/building department were apprised of Steve's plans. The formal presentation to the councillors is a standard protocol for any developer, particularly of this magnitude.

Amazing the number of folks here are of such high levels of expertise to be directing Steve, Apple, the City Council and community members of what, how and when to do things. And that is without even watching the video, let alone being apprised of the many meetings with individual council members and onsite presentations to the various city departments that are involved in the licensing/permitting necessary to even start the project, let alone build it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

Exactly.

Yes, I watched the whole video. I assume it's just part of the regulatory process, but the PR element cannot be denied. It was *such* a big deal for Steve to actually turn up at WWDC and he looked like he was struggling. I am positive the last thing he would want to do was to have to go to the Cupertino City Council the very next day, let alone in the middle of Apple's most successful public event!

Like I said, I concede that I am no expert in the matter and there are a lot of pieces and procedures to the whole thing. I was responding to the poster saying "I'm not from America, can they say No to Steve?", whereby I said, yes, I'm sure it is possible, but of course there's a lot of bureaucracy in place and in motion. And I was reminding this poster this isn't like the developing world where you just walk in, flash some cash, jewels and promises and Boom! You have your permit.

Again, obviously this "presentation" is just a piece of the regulatory dance, but for Steve himself, during WWDC, with the status of his health and weight, to personally do all this is IMO significant regardless of how things are normally done in Cupertino.

What is also significant is the obvious shock and awe the councillors were in, and also some of the silly questions they asked for something of this magnitude.
post #69 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider View Post

Haha it is a beautiful walled garden! withs its own ecosystem

Yup, flora and fauna will be tightly curated. We'll be reading on AppleInsider how various employees who like certain plants don't get it "approved" for the courtyard.

Apple will have to come up with a statement:
"Because we want our employees to have the best garden courtyard experience possible, we make sure that only the plants that work best with our campus APIs are allowed."
post #70 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Seriously. Anyone not thinking that this is a green building is smoking some of that weed.

He mentioned natural gas as their primary power source. Probably to power Bloom boxes (fuel cells) which can be switched to renewable fuel sources.

http://www.bloomenergy.com/products/

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...ted;photovideo

Google been evaluating Bloom boxes for a couple of years now, their first real customer IIRC. While they can supply some of the needs for customers like Google or FedX, they're not yet anywhere near ready to replace traditional power sources for a project of this size, especially economically. With Apple nearly always focused on the bottom line, I don't see them making this kind of upfront investment that may never result in any cost savings.
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post #71 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Google been evaluating Bloom boxes for a couple of years now, their first real customer IIRC. While they can supply some of the needs for customers like Google or FedX, they're not yet anywhere near ready to replace traditional power sources for a project of this size, especially economically. With Apple nearly always focused on the bottom line, I don't see them making this kind of upfront investment that may never result in any cost savings.

Aren't you also going to chime in on how the Googleplex is somehow "greener", more "open", offers more "choice" and "freedom", and how employees can root their cubicles?
post #72 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

While true about natural light being nice, most office modern buildings even need cooling in the winter. Remember, all the computers, lights and people add up to alot of heat. It's only on the weekends or long shutdowns of the building that heat would be required.

Yes, but that's because most office buildings use traditional glass rather than low emission glass which reflects the thermal frequencies, while allowing optical wavelengths in. Then there's the really high tech smart-glass option, which Jobs certainly has the money to play with. Also most modern office buildings are built without any natural air-flow, because most are so high that open windows would cause huge problems. A groundscraper like this can have electronically controlled ventilation instead of recirculated air-conditioning except in the hottest weather.

There are LOTS of ways to build an efficient building, solar is just a totemic technology that a lot of people have a woody for. It's not necessarily the best approach, and incidentally part of the reason for that is thermal, solar panels by definition absorb a lot of light, only some of that is converted to electriicty, the rest becomes heat - increasing your cooling bills. Sticking panels on the roof is a good option if you have an existing bullding though.

Check out some of the information on the Rocky Mountain Institute's website http://www.rmi.org/rmi/Cooling+The+Warming the video there discuses a building designed to utilize almost entirely natural light during daylight
post #73 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

I dont understand the questions of residents gains and free WiFi? Sorry I am not American.

I read some of your comment and I still dont understand. Please Lighten up on things.

Do the council have the power to say no? And why would they say no?

I didnt watch the video yet. I hope it was a joke. It seems Jobs was threatening them who is in charge, who is more powerful and who pays their salary.

City Council, along with a City Mayor are the Law. They determine what can and cannot be built for the City. They are elected officials to do that and balance the City Budget. Get it yet?
post #74 of 304
NEWSFLASH: Steve Jobs reveals to council that Apple just loves Windows
post #75 of 304
it actually is a spaceship.
post #76 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by blimp View Post

NEWSFLASH: Steve Jobs reveals to council that Apple just loves Windows

Curved, glass windows.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #77 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Yes, I don't think Apple should have carte blanche to do what they want just because it's already so stunning... Maybe the real questions the city council as well as the state should be asking is what about solar? There are many new office buildings around the world being built that are already "greener" than this. Yes, architect students will come to see it but it's not really an epitome of a green building.
post #78 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... Apple also plans to supply its own power, using the city grid as backup. ...

It's got a built in battery. Fail.
post #79 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Aren't you also going to chime in on how the Googleplex is somehow "greener", more "open", offers more "choice" and "freedom", and how employees can root their cubicles?

Don't I always use those words when Google is mentioned?
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post #80 of 304
Steve Jobs is an utter hero. It obviously took a monumental expenditure of precious energy to make that presentation and he's doing it for Apple's future. He was gracious, fiercely intelligent as always, and stuck to his guns and made his points well. The city cannot help but try to pick up freebies but Steve isn't having that, and does it with humor and no-argue force.

Apple is beyond fortunate to have such a founder who is willing to put himself out there on Apple's behalf when any other person at this point would be resting at home. I pray for Steve every day and thank God for every time I have been blessed to see him in action. A rare Titan of a man. His courage and perseverance are outstanding. Witness a legend.
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