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Apple shows off its networking savvy at WWDC - Page 2

post #41 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I didn't see that. Link and time to start watching?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtuz5...layer_embedded

The auditorium reference is at 8:25, but whole presentation is worth watching (you can skip the obligatory City Council showboating that follows.)

What was funny was the very Jobs-ian hammering home of the basic concept, which was "We really want to stay in Cupertino." (along with the implied horse's head in the bed.)
post #42 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Agreed! And their is the positive effect on the environment, too. No water to bleach the cardboard for the boxes, no trees used, no toxic colored inks, no fossil fuel used to make the plastic, no manufacturing waste and no fossil fuel used to ship or go to the store to pick it up.

To insist on an optical disc is short sighted, to say the least. Good for Apple!

The only contention I can see for a counterargument is the installer offers on option to create a Restore Disc or Disk, as the case my be. This is something will be useful until Apple starts shipping Macs with Lion at which point the 8GB flash drive will become their Restore Disc.

There is an option in Recovery HD which is accessed by holding down Option key during boot up to reinstall Mac OS X Lion but I can't get it to work. I'm not sure if this is rollover code from when this setup was part of the Restore Disc or if they have plans to have the Installer files moved to an area that Recovery HD can locate.
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post #43 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama View Post

If Steve says you don't need one, then you don't get one. To say otherwise will bring down the wrath of the AI community, as you can see from the responses.

I think they should give you a choice of optical media for a fee. I wonder if you buy a new iMac truck after lion is out if it will come with any restore disc or repair tools?

Of course no one buys iMacs anymore. Everybody loves iPads. A new iMac doesn't even rate the front page of the website for one single day. It's not as sexy as a white iPhone or a cloud service.

Sounds like somebody is still getting over the decision to remove floppy drives from the 1999 iMac.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #44 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The only contention I can see for a counterargument is the installer offers on option to create a Restore Disc or Disk, as the case my be. This is something will be useful until Apple starts shipping Macs with Lion at which point the 8GB flash drive will become their Restore Disc.

There is an option in Recovery HD which is accessed by holding down Option key during boot up to reinstall Mac OS X Lion but I can't get it to work. I'm not sure if this is rollover code from when this setup was part of the Restore Disc or if they have plans to have the Installer files moved to an area that Recovery HD can locate.

Good to know, thanks!
post #45 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by dualie View Post

Yet, I can get Cyberduck for free from Macupdate.com, but it costs $23 at the App Store. So much for lowering costs. And still no mention of a solution for corporate firewalls that block the App Store.

The only problem with your analogy here is that the Free one prompts you to Donate if at all possible. The one on the MAS does not ask you for this, as you have already "donated".

-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Fanatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027

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-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Fanatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027

Reply
post #46 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

Burn a copy to a DVD.

Perhaps there should be an asterisk on the $29.99* cost.

*does not include DVD. That cost is now passed to you (please provide your bandwidth and USB drive. If you want to burn a disc, please buy an external DVD drive for your Macbook Air).

OR

You could just offer a DVD version Apple. "it just works".
post #47 of 120
Aw, I read this headline expecting something new and exciting. They have those screens EVERY year. Author must be a WWDC-virgin.
post #48 of 120
DVD install is painfully slow. Praise be to the sense to get rid of them.
post #49 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

Where are the new Airport and Time Capsule?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

Apparently that was a bogus rumor

Maybe just a rumor whose time is yet to come.


When iCloud is released to the general public, and when the initial novelty wears off, then I suspect we'll see a Local-iCloud Server announcement.


I've been playing around with iCloud Backup for my iP4, iPad 2, and iPad 1. The initial backup takes a bit of time -- as you'd expect. But the Delta backup takes just a few minutes.

PhotoStream works great!

All iCloud services are mot present in the beta -- but I like what I see!
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post #50 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandelay Industries View Post

You could just offer a DVD version Apple. "it just works".

Enjoy your LC 575. It can't run OS X anyway. I know, I tried. And then I hit 12 and learned the difference between the Motorola and IBM chips and why OS X couldn't run on the LC 575.

Originally Posted by helia

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Originally Posted by helia

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post #51 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama View Post

If Steve says you don't need one, then you don't get one. To say otherwise will bring down the wrath of the AI community, as you can see from the responses.

I think they should give you a choice of optical media for a fee. I wonder if you buy a new iMac truck after lion is out if it will come with any restore disc or repair tools?

Of course no one buys iMacs anymore. Everybody loves iPads. A new iMac doesn't even rate the front page of the website for one single day. It's not as sexy as a white iPhone or a cloud service.

OK!

You've performed as expected!

Groundhog day is over... You've seen your shadow... Time to crawl back into your hole!
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post #52 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Did anyone else watch Steve's presentation to the Cupertino City Council about the new 'mother ship', and note his comment about the auditorium?
Specifically about how they always have to come up to SF for presenations?
I guess things like WWDC keynotes will continue to be at the event venue, but suspect that we'll soon see all flat-out announcements taking place at the new facility.

Actually, they already run some show-and-tells at their current location. Of course, those are typically smaller and more intimate.
post #53 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by juandl View Post

I think it would be a good idea for Apple to consider making WiFi available for Cupertino. It will no doubt be a big undertaking. But they could at least draw up what it would require, and provide the needed equipment. They could then have a separate company do the actual work. Of course it would be abig expense to them. But it would be a huge gift to the city that everyone associates Apple with. Maybe they would be given some kind of Tax relief.
Seem to remember that Google is planning on doing the same with one particular town. That was chosen for many direct-indirect reasons. They could have easily have chosen Mountain View, but they didn't. Apple could one up them there.
One other thing. Google isn't doing this just to be good guys (again). There is a business
to be made of this. There are LOTS of towns and cities out there that are paying close attention to what Google is doing. Could be some money there. All Apple would have to do would be hire another person (like the guy they had overseeing the Data Farm construction) oversee this project(s). I bet there wasn't very many Apple engineers involved in the actual construction.

Some Cupertino City Councilwoman tried to bully/shame Steve into providing free WiFi for the city at the recent preso for the new campus (totally out of line).

Classic Steve replied (paraphrased): "I'm a simple person -- I believe that we should pay the taxes and the City should provide the services. Now, if you want to trade off the taxes..."
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post #54 of 120
How about copying Lion to a disk after it is downloaded? Is that something that can be done? I wouldn't know since i haven't used the mac app store and are unaware of any technical hurdles in the way.
post #55 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotea9999 View Post

Yeah truly awesome for those people who can't get a fast connection and have caps on downloads. Truly wonderful. It will leave lots of people out of snow lion since it is download only.

I mean let's take a look at the general population (US only for simplicity's sake) information to see what that number could look like:

According to census numbers:
Total US population - 285,230,516
Urban US population - 225,956,060
Rural US population - 59,274,456

so ~20% of population has obvious connection challenges. That means that roughly out approximately 75 million active Mac users only 15 million, potentially have download issues - that is assuming they have no other means of accessing a fast internet connection, and your concern assumes that there are no other means by which those downloads can be done. This would be ignoring the nearly 100,000 free to the public WiFi zone across the US, let alone access via friends' and neighbors'. Yes by all means, Apple should temper it's innovation to make sure that 100% of Mac users are fully convenienced and no one is "left behind".

Because innovation should always be shackled to whatever is best for all. And of course Apple has made absolutely NO provision for those with connection challenges...
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post #56 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandelay Industries View Post

When my HD fries, or I want to upgrade, I'll have to install SL, then download 4GB (again), to get the OS up.

Just give me the option to burn an ISO at least.

Then of course, if I have 3 macs to upgrade, that's 12GB of downloads each time. No thanks.

(I'm not interested in cloning or TM backups. I prefer clean installs.)

Some people only have 3G connections, this is ridiculous.

EDIT: Dorotea9999 I agree.

You of course would have noticed that a disc image is included in the download, so you can download once, burn and sneakernet the disc to your other machines, or *gasp* cross-load from the first machine on your own personal network.

Quote:
Perhaps there should be an asterisk on the $29.99* cost.

*does not include DVD. That cost is now passed to you (please provide your bandwidth and USB drive. If you want to burn a disc, please buy an external DVD drive for your Macbook Air).

Or you could, as I have already mentioned use the 21st century technology at your fingertips and simply cross-load on your network. Seriously - this IS the 21st century, Steampunk is geek fashionable, Ludditing is not.


Choices - they just work
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post #57 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtuz5...layer_embedded

The auditorium reference is at 8:25, but whole presentation is worth watching (you can skip the obligatory City Council showboating that follows.)

What was funny was the very Jobs-ian hammering home of the basic concept, which was "We really want to stay in Cupertino." (along with the implied horse's head in the bed.)

Thanks. That was interesting and makes me want to get a job at Apple.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunabku View Post

How about copying Lion to a disk after it is downloaded? Is that something that can be done? I wouldn't know since i haven't used the mac app store and are unaware of any technical hurdles in the way.

Sure. It's an app in your /Applications folder so copying is a breeze.
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post #58 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandelay Industries View Post

Perhaps there should be an asterisk on the $29.99* cost.

*does not include DVD. That cost is now passed to you (please provide your bandwidth and USB drive. If you want to burn a disc, please buy an external DVD drive for your Macbook Air).

OR

You could just offer a DVD version Apple. "it just works".

Good Idea!

Apple should offer a DVD version for $79.99 plus shipping and handling.

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post #59 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL View Post

The Lion installer is an application.

Install Lion onto a USB stick, external HDD or something like that at put the installer application on that.

Boot from the stick and run the installer when you need to intall on a blank disc.

Embracing 21st century technology!!!!!
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post #60 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post

I mean let's take a look at the general population (US only for simplicity's sake) information to see what that number could look like:

According to census numbers:
Total US population - 285,230,516
Urban US population - 225,956,060
Rural US population - 59,274,456

so ~20% of population has obvious connection challenges. That means that roughly out approximately 75 million active Mac users only 15 million, potentially have download issues - that is assuming they have no other means of accessing a fast internet connection, and your concern assumes that there are no other means by which those downloads can be done. This would be ignoring the nearly 100,000 free to the public WiFi zone across the US, let alone access via friends' and neighbors'. Yes by all means, Apple should temper it's innovation to make sure that 100% of Mac users are fully convenienced and no one is "left behind".

Because innovation should always be shackled to whatever is best for all. And of course Apple has made absolutely NO provision for those with connection challenges...



I thought that, after he invented the Internet, AlGore wired the US for Internet -- I saw the pictures of AlGore and Free Willie with cables over their shoulders -- Didn't our taxes pay for that?




Edit: Couldn't resist:




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post #61 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotea9999 View Post

Yeah truly awesome for those people who can't get a fast connection and have caps on downloads. Truly wonderful. It will leave lots of people out of snow lion since it is download only.

On which remote mountaintop do you live where the local tax-funded public library that you're already paying for doesn't offer super-fast free wifi?
post #62 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Good Idea!

Apple should offer a DVD version for $79.99 plus shipping and handling.


An extra $50 for pressing a DVD, packaging and shipping seems too high. I can a $20 premium and not even announcing it until after they receive enough complaints to make it warranted, then not shipping it until a month or so after Lion officially ships via Mac App Store.

On top of that, if you can't get a 4GB download then you are gonna have problems with Mac App Store apps so they could try to make a bundle with iLife and iWork on the disc, but that pushes the price up to $129-ish.

As a shareholder I'm not concerned about these people, and even less concerned about those botching about needing to first buy SL so they can DL Lion. If you are using a C2D-based Mac and aren't running SL because $29 was too much then I don't know why they all or a sudden want the $29.99 Lion. These are fringe people with specious complaints.
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post #63 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaperducer View Post

On which remote mountaintop do you live where the local tax-funded public library that you're already paying for doesn't offer super-fast free wifi?

Northeast Indiana.

Oh, sorry, you were asking someone else. Carry on!

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #64 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post

so ~20% of population has obvious connection challenges.

Rural doesn't necessarily mean connection-challenged. There are lots of places in the wide-open spaces that have great internet connectivity. I think of my parent's place in extreme remote upstate New York, a friend's place that is actually off the grid (he uses satellite internet) on the Minnesota-Canada border, and a place I used to live in New Mexico that had more lizards than people.

I think the number of Americans for whom this is actually going to be a problem will be limited to the usual pack of whiners, complainers, and Windows users.

However, I do see problems in certain other countries, where someone may have to take a daytrip to a city to an internet cafe to make the download.
post #65 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Why? It makes no sense. Might as well just download it. It will take less time than a disc, anyway.

Not everybody has unlimited broadband with 50MB/sec download!

Not sure how things are in the US but here in the UK most of the ISPs have a 'Fair Use' policy or limited (e.g. 2GB/month) allowance so a 4GB download is going to be inaccessible for a huge number of people. Speed is an issue as well with the average around 2MB so a 4GB download will take a lot longer than a DVD!

A thumb drive would be a good option over DVD - light on packaging and reusable (swapping files between Macs and PCs - or to give your Windows friends who won't have Air Drop!
post #66 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Northeast Indiana.

Oh, sorry, you were asking someone else. Carry on!

Be more specific, so I can prove you wrong.

Or, here's a solution for all those who would pay a premium for a disc -- spend $1.00 on a short coffee at one of the 4,000 Starbucks locations across America and use the free wifi. Or spend 49 cents on an ice cream cone at one of the 14,000 McDonald's locations across the country and use the wifi there.

If you won't pony up 49 cents, then enjoy your Altair.

I've been all around northeast Indiana. If you can't find a McDonald's, then you're blind.
post #67 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandelay Industries View Post

I want a disc. No lion for me.

because you don't actually own a Mac, I'm guessing....
post #68 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

As a shareholder I'm not concerned about these people, and even less concerned about those botching about needing to first buy SL so they can DL Lion. If you are using a C2D-based Mac and aren't running SL because $29 was too much then I don't know why they all or a sudden want the $29.99 Lion. These are fringe people with specious complaints.

Joking aside as I'm sure you are - shareholders should be concerned if Apple unintentionally disenfranchises its existing and future user base for the sake of an alternate loading medium!
post #69 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post

Not everybody has unlimited broadband with 50MB/sec download!

Not sure how things are in the US but here in the UK most of the ISPs have a 'Fair Use' policy or limited (e.g. 2GB/month) allowance so a 4GB download is going to be inaccessible for a huge number of people. Speed is an issue as well with the average around 2MB so a 4GB download will take a lot longer than a DVD!

But... but... but... Britons on the internet (see Slashdot, Fark, et.al.) have been crowing for years that their internet is faster, cheaper, and more ubiquitous than in the United States. Do you mean that your country is really as backwards as the actual statistics indicate?

Caps are your problem, not Apple's. You made the choice of getting cheap internet service.

I have a 13 megabit Clear connection, so according to this web site, I'll download it in about 40 minutes. Even a slow DSL connection (2 megs) will do it in 4 hours.

1. Start download Friday night.
2. Go to sleep.
3. Wake up Saturday morning and finish install!

Problem solved.
post #70 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post

Joking aside as I'm sure you are - shareholders should be concerned if Apple unintentionally disenfranchises its existing and future user base for the sake of an alternate loading medium!

I'm with him, and also a shareholder. If Apple can ship a Lion install for 50 cents worth of bandwidth instead of $4.00 worth of packaging and material, then screw the edge cases.

it's also the "green" solution, so we can save the dying gay baby whales. Or something.
post #71 of 120





















Notice anything(s) missing?


We call that progress!
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post #72 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaperducer View Post

But... but... but... Britons on the internet (see Slashdot, Fark, et.al.) have been crowing for years that their internet is faster, cheaper, and more ubiquitous than in the United States. Do you mean that your country is really as backwards as the actual statistics indicate?

Caps are your problem, not Apple's. You made the choice of getting cheap internet service.

I have a 13 megabit Clear connection, so according to this web site, I'll download it in about 40 minutes. Even a slow DSL connection (2 megs) will do it in 4 hours.

1. Start download Friday night.
2. Go to sleep.
3. Wake up Saturday morning and finish install!

Problem solved.

Faster, and cheaper than FedEX overnight service!
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post #73 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

As a Network Engineer for over 15 years, these are standard views and reports from a major Wifi Vendor (not Apple). Apple did not create this. They are simply just another WiFi Vendor customer (like many thousands of other corporate customers).

Yup. Too bad Apple doesn't have a clue about how to do WiFi themselves. The Airport Extreme is a miserable excuse for a wifi solution... and the laptops are worse with broken wifi sharing.
post #74 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Notice anything(s) missing?


We call that progress!

It's only progress if you take everyone along on with your vision. Uber-geeks and the well heeled aside the option of a thumb drive will keep more people on side or the lack of an alternative will encourage others to stay on the dark side that Redmond keep offering.

As much as I love Apple it won't be progress until MS joins in on Windoze 8!
post #75 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaperducer View Post

Be more specific, so I can prove you wrong.

You can't. Our library doesn't have Wi-Fi. That was the point.

Quote:
Or, here's a solution for all those who would pay a premium for a disc -- spend $1.00 on a short coffee at one of the 4,000 Starbucks locations across America and use the free wifi. Or spend 49 cents on an ice cream cone at one of the 14,000 McDonald's locations across the country and use the wifi there.

If you won't pony up 49 cents, then enjoy your Altair.

I've been all around northeast Indiana. If you can't find a McDonald's, then you're blind.

Hold on there, Jethro, I have no complaints about download-only software.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #76 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post

It's only progress if you take everyone along on with your vision. Uber-geeks and the well heeled aside the option of a thumb drive will keep more people on side or the lack of an alternative will encourage others to stay on the dark side that Redmond keep offering.

As much as I love Apple it won't be progress until MS joins in on Windoze 8!


I see nothing in the definition that includes "if you take everyone along".

There will always be those who will resist change -- that's their choice.

But, If you have a vision of the future it is important to draw a line in the sand, so those who are willing can progress -- rather than shackle everyone with the detritus of the past.
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post #77 of 120
Anyone know what the networking equipment was/is for WWDC? I can guarantee it's not a bunch of APX routers. Maybe Cisco, Juniper, or perhaps Aruba?
post #78 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandelay Industries View Post

I want a disc. No lion for me.

Your loss, we don't care...
post #79 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Maybe. But if they really want to impress me, how about fixing Internet Sharing, which has been broken in every version of Snow Leopard?

how so? im using it now...
post #80 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Enjoy your LC 575. It can't run OS X anyway. I know, I tried. And then I hit 12 and learned the difference between the Motorola and IBM chips and why OS X couldn't run on the LC 575.

that 36 MB ram barrier was the first issue with the LC575... but at least it wasnt a 32 bit "dirty" mac.
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