The Bush admin is still lying to start a war - Page 12  

What is also interesting is that everyone that has any expertise is saying that it is FAR from clear. From UN inspectors to the CIA, folks are finding it much easier to point out the flaws in that assessment:

http://www.dailykos.com/archives/002879.html

the link to the UN staff assessment is earlier in the thread.

Do people not think through anything? Hey guy, if the goal is to save the most innocent lives, there are much more pressing situations than the one in Iraq. If the goal is to make life as pleasant as possible for the most people, or for the people that are suffering the most, there are many places that are MUCH more in need of our help than Iraq. Like...oh, maybe...Afghanistan. Or have you forgotten along with everyone else? Or have you just not noticed that Afghanistan is getting little substantial help from the US, and certainly nothing close to the scale of Iraq. Maybe you are unaware of what going on in Congo. Hell, we could go down a whole list of regions that make Iraq seem like disneyland.

Oh, and as far as prisoners go, did you forget that Saddam released just about all of them last year, including all of the murderers and rapists? Isn't it ironic that perhaps one of the biggest human rights offenses the regime committed in the last year was to release the prisoners?!?!

And how is it that someone in one of the last developed countries to execute prisoners is condemning another nation for doing the same thing?


PS: I should also remind you that those large mass graves in the south were very much our fault, too, since we prompted the uprising and basically handed them to the Iraqis. Also those deaths happened in the context of a civil war, of which there are many that we never get involved in.

If you want to talk about the UN, it did not support the war. The UN does not support your position, plain and simple.

Here's a guardian article on it, too

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...968581,00.html

This is what you said in your post:

And the UN does not agree.




Don't worry. I don't want your job.

The reason it took so long is that no one really bothers to go over the UN reports and see what was there. Everyone just keeps saying 'WMD, WMD, WMD' ignoring the fact that we are talking about something in particular. What was the important things that were unaccounted for?

. maybe 500 tons of Mustard Gas, though this number only comes from a discrepancy in ONE document of bombs dropped and previous stock during the war with Iran. Mustard gas alone is not enough of a threat since many nations have it,it has been used since WWI and is difficult to deliver in non-military environments. It is also something that would not (not even in a fantasy world) have been deployed against the US.

Beyond that, what do we have?

. Chemical agent that would have degraded by now and would be useless.
. Biological weapons that would likely be useless at this point, though they always were since bio weapons are not very practical (which is the main reason the US doesn't have a large bio weapons program anymore).

Every piece of information on nuclear weapons, from the non-existant IAEA reports cited by Bush to the forged Nigerian docs, were pure BS. The claims that large chem facilities were being rebuilt is NOW KNOWN TO BE FALSE.

And this is what is so important, and why we don't need more time. The facilities were not rebuilt. Iraq did not produce new large stocks of these weapons. Period. That's why we don't have to wait and see.

This is exactly why anyone that repeats the 'Saddam has/had WMD' mantra is so backward! None of them have bothered to look into what they are really talking about.

These are the same folks that ignore that the 'bio-lab trailers' not only make no sense, but are a claim that sits on little (if any) evidence.

This is also why these same folks will eat up anything that is planted, which is not without precident and becoming increasingly more likely as the political situation gets tougher. When and if it happens, those that have actually studied what is possible will speak out about it, but the american public, whose depth of thought hasn't gone far past the phrase 'WMD' will eat up the marketing.

A little bit more on the trailers from Federation of American Scientists:


So not only is Bush still flat out lying (or at the extreme least, he's misrepresenting the facts in a dramatic way), we also have a good example of a situation where the American public, including people here in AO, eat up claims without being aware of the particulars of each case. Hell, they aren't even aware of the fact that there are particulars.

I think the reason Americans are so unquestioning is that they fall victim to belief in, as one intel expert called it, "Hollywood rinky-dink." Some of you guys think that, like in the movies, details don't matter and terrorists are all good looking and drive speedboats. Well, here in the real world, details matter much more than the phrase 'WMD.'

What ever crazier, however, is the number of people that are too dense to realize that they politicians rely on this same ignorance to sell their policies, like Bush has been all along with this war.