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With later arrival of new iPhone, HTC may challenge Apple as top US smartphone maker

post #1 of 111
6/10/11 at 4:54am
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Handset maker HTC has seen strong sales of its Android-based smartphones on all four U.S. carriers, putting the Taiwanese company in a position to contend with Apple for the title of top smartphone seller in the U.S.

Sales of the HTC Thunderbolt on Verizon and Inspire 4G on AT&T have not topped the iPhone on each carrier's network, but those devices are said to be by far the top-selling Android-powered handsets.

And with the addition of smartphone sales through carriers Sprint and T-Mobile -- two carriers where Apple's iPhone is not available -- HTC is "set to challenge" Apple's position as the top U.S. smartphone maker, according to sources that spoke with DigiTimes.

The HTC Thunderbolt is said to be the second most popular smartphone on Verizon's network, trailing only the iPhone. And on AT&T, the Inspire 4G is also the best-selling Android phone, with sales almost three times higher than the Motorola Atrix 4G.

With sales on Sprint and T-Mobile, HTC took second place in terms of hardware sales in the first quarter of 2011, trailing only Apple. And HTC may find itself in a position now to threaten Apple's spot at the top of the U.S. market, the report said.

"With the absence of a next-generation iPhone, and the fact that rival Motorola has been forced to postpone the launch of its 4G models, HTC has a chance to further narrow the gap in market share against Apple before the third quarter," sources reportedly said.
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post #2 of 111
6/10/11 at 5:12am
non story


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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #3 of 111
6/10/11 at 5:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

non story


9

Damn, you beat me to it!

Who cares, Apple is making all the right moves, making gobs of money, and pumping out excellent products.
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post #4 of 111
6/10/11 at 5:39am
Until the next iPhone.

Projected sales for iOS devices (especially iPad) look pretty insanely great for 2012. I'd watch for that.
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post #5 of 111
6/10/11 at 5:52am
Decissions decissions, decided not to upgrade my 3GS last year and have patiently waited for the iPhone 5. But now that it's delayed and all the reports point to a modest upgrade at best is there any point in waiting.

There are a lot of good iPhone 4 deals around at the moment, still Apple might pull a rabbit out of the hat and release an amazing upgrade, Argh such a touch choice!
iPad, Macbook Pro, iPhone, heck I even have iLife! :-)
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iPad, Macbook Pro, iPhone, heck I even have iLife! :-)
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post #6 of 111
6/10/11 at 5:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Decissions decissions, decided not to upgrade my 3GS last year and have patiently waited for the iPhone 5. But now that it's delayed and all the reports point to a modest upgrade at best is there any point in waiting.

There are a lot of good iPhone 4 deals around at the moment, still Apple might pull a rabbit out of the hat and release an amazing upgrade, Argh such a touch choice!

If you wait until the iPhone 5 comes out and decide it is not worth the upgrade, the 4 will most likely still be around for $99. Of course, you have to factor in your two-year contract and the fact that you probably won't get software updates at the tail end of that contract after the iPhone 6 comes out, but it may be a good deal, depending on what the 5 has in it.
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post #7 of 111
6/10/11 at 6:12am
HTC ain't sh**!
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post #8 of 111
6/10/11 at 6:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Decissions decissions, decided not to upgrade my 3GS last year and have patiently waited for the iPhone 5. But now that it's delayed and all the reports point to a modest upgrade at best is there any point in waiting.

There are a lot of good iPhone 4 deals around at the moment, still Apple might pull a rabbit out of the hat and release an amazing upgrade, Argh such a touch choice!

I'm still using the first iPhone, it works well does what I need, I will only buy a new one if this one croaks.
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post #9 of 111
6/10/11 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Decissions decissions, decided not to upgrade my 3GS last year and have patiently waited for the iPhone 5. But now that it's delayed and all the reports point to a modest upgrade at best is there any point in waiting.

There are a lot of good iPhone 4 deals around at the moment, still Apple might pull a rabbit out of the hat and release an amazing upgrade, Argh such a touch choice!

don't work from rumors, i'd wait, as long as your unit works, wait then decide from knowing
its only a few months, even if evolutionary probably cdma and gsm together, then you can buy the phone from where ever then work a deal
thats what i'm doing

so where is apple with their patent case against HTC???
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #10 of 111
6/10/11 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

non story

Totally agree. Another Anal-----yst, trying to make their hit count for the week.

Market share only counts on a level playing field. Apple is so far up the hill that no one comes close.

UI, hardware, software, all just works. and now its the environ. iCloud, iOS, OS. All just working great together.

Just a thought,
en
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post #11 of 111
6/10/11 at 6:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph L View Post

But who is making the biggest profits? That's the company I do business with!



l can only infer that you don't own or run a business. Maybe you can enlighten us on why this is a winning strategy.
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post #12 of 111
6/10/11 at 6:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldernorm View Post

Totally agree. Another Anal-----yst, trying to make their hit count for the week.

Market share only counts on a level playing field. Apple is so far up the hill that no one comes close.

UI, hardware, software, all just works. and now its the environ. iCloud, iOS, OS. All just working great together.

Just a thought,
en

Exactly- Has the Anal-----yst or source bothered to read the comments on this phone- crummy 2 -3 hour battery life, constant reboots, Can't charge w/ kickstand deployed, can't use while in car dock or w headphones. Not exactly well thought out by comparison

TC
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post #13 of 111
6/10/11 at 6:39am
Strange to think that Microsoft makes $5 on every HTC Android handset sold. They're making more money from Android right now than WP7.
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post #14 of 111
6/10/11 at 6:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldernorm View Post

Totally agree. Another Anal-----yst, trying to make their hit count for the week.

Market share only counts on a level playing field. Apple is so far up the hill that no one comes close.

UI, hardware, software, all just works. and now its the environ. iCloud, iOS, OS. All just working great together.

Just a thought,
en

thanks
i too is so thrilled with all the new goodies from APPLE
The APP store for my MBP is wonderful .
I f i lose an app i bought from a disc 3 yrs ago
i can down load it now
in fact they prompted me that it was lost and put it up for taking <<pages is what was gone >>
and freedom from inserting a disc each time i want to play a game is nice also

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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #15 of 111
6/10/11 at 6:57am
The strange thing is that as I travel around America all I see are iPhones. Who has all this Android phones?
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #16 of 111
6/10/11 at 7:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldernorm View Post

Totally agree. Another Anal-----yst, trying to make their hit count for the week.

Market share only counts on a level playing field. Apple is so far up the hill that no one comes close.

UI, hardware, software, all just works. and now its the environ. iCloud, iOS, OS. All just working great together.

Just a thought,
en

Agreed. The trouble with this data is that it most likely is derived from retail sales staff surveys. They call and ask what's their bestseller and 2nd best, and how large gap between, etc. It's just salespeople rattling off info from top of their head, no hard data.

Most important, retail store sales don't represent all handset sales. Much of the store traffic comes from people unsure of what to buy and are wanting to play around with demos. Every carrier has a "recommended" or "hero" device that they typically have volume commitments for. Thus, these handsets carry the largest rip (commission) incentivizing sales staff to aggressively push them.

What's missing are online sales and sales from Apple retail stores. Most iPhone buyers know they want an iPhone and don't need to make a trip to a physical store. Verizon said that 2/3 of iPhone sales are online. Therefore, sales data gleaned from retail sales staff is often misleading, especially in the case of the iPhone.
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post #17 of 111
6/10/11 at 7:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph L View Post

What a surprise. Make craptastic products and give them away practically for free.

But who is making the biggest profits? That's the company I do business with!

Thunderbolt is more expensive than the iPhone ....
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post #18 of 111
6/10/11 at 7:06am
Let see if something is giving away (HTC) verses having to the buy it (iphone) how many do you think will be in the market. All my kids friends who have their free HTC phones hate them, but their parent will not pay for them to have and iphone so free crap will always ship more.
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post #19 of 111
6/10/11 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

The strange thing is that as I travel around America all I see are iPhones. Who has all this Android phones?

Maybe they are Samsungs? \
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post #20 of 111
6/10/11 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

The strange thing is that as I travel around America all I see are iPhones. Who has all this Android phones?

People who are too ashamed of their cheap phones to take them out and use them in public...
OSX, because making UNIX user friendly is easier than debugging windows.
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post #21 of 111
6/10/11 at 7:14am
Regarding PCs, smartphones, tablets and such, the question arises do I want to buy a device because it has the largest market share or because it is the best? Sure, as a long time Apple fan and customer I revel in its recent dominance of several device markets but I didn't buy Apple products in the first place because they sold the most. I bought Apple products because I thought they were the best. Apple hating trolls have always claimed that the one with the most market share must ergo be the best. Of course they had to modify that claim when the iPod, iPhone, and iPad took over. Then it was only stupid people and "sheeple" who buy Apple products. But the point is market share and quality do not usually combine. It's the old "good enough" argument.

I have no doubt that Apple will eventually lose market share to cheaper knockoffs, the so-called "white boxes" but I will continue to buy Apple as long as they are the best and see no evidence of that changing any time soon. My youngest son recently switched from the iPhone to an HTC Android phone just because he wanted something different. At a recent family get together he lamented that the iPhone really is better than the Android. I just nodded in agreement.
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post #22 of 111
6/10/11 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

The strange thing is that as I travel around America all I see are iPhones. Who has all this Android phones?

Maybe you don't travel to any major cities like NYC or DC.
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post #23 of 111
6/10/11 at 7:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

My youngest son recently switched from the iPhone to an HTC Android phone just because he wanted something different. At a recent family get together he lamented that the iPhone really is better than the Android. I just nodded in agreement.

Unlike a lot of people your son has used both so he can make an intelligent and informed statement on the differences. The iPhone fit and finish even on the first iPhone is unrivaled. Battery life in iPhone beats anything out there but the keyboard and screen size is not so good in my opinion.
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post #24 of 111
6/10/11 at 7:25am
The HTC thunderbolt is a very nice 4G phone.... I know three people who chose it over the iPhone 4...

If I had to buy and a new phone now it would be the Thunderbolt......

Before the fan boys pile on, I own three Macs and two iPads. If Apple ever releases a 4G phone, that is when I'll retire my Motorola Droid.....
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post #25 of 111
6/10/11 at 7:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph L View Post

Everybody I know realizes that people define you by the phone you use.

And nobody wants to be defined as a cheapskate who likes to steal apps.

What a cheap and petty way to judge someone. In that metric Lady GaGa has contributed more to humanity than Albert Einstein. \
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post #26 of 111
6/10/11 at 7:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Regarding PCs, smartphones, tablets and such, the question arises do I want to buy a device because it has the largest market share or because it is the best? Sure, as a long time Apple fan and customer I revel in its recent dominance of several device markets but I didn't buy Apple products in the first place because they sold the most. I bought Apple products because I thought they were the best. Apple hating trolls have always claimed that the one with the most market share must ergo be the best. Of course they had to modify that claim when the iPod, iPhone, and iPad took over. Then it was only stupid people and "sheeple" who buy Apple products. But the point is market share and quality do not usually combine. It's the old "good enough" argument.

And I am sure the folks at Apple would agree. They have always claimed that they are not interested in market share for the sake of it. These forums are full of people who at one time or another have insisted that Apple MUST get into the corporate market and produce low cost computers. Those people clearly don't understand what drives Apple. Having said that, I am sure Apple loves market share as much as the next guy / company.
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post #27 of 111
6/10/11 at 7:31am
given that the iPhone had a huge increase in market share in the US last quarter, I'm not sure where this is coming from. In fact iPhone passed RIM last quarter to become the 4th biggest US handset maker. To put it into perspective, if last quarter's trends were continued, Apple would be 3rd biggest US handset OEM in under a year.

HTC is too low to even show on comScore's publicly released figures, so we don't know how much they gained over the last quarter. Unless they're rapidly replacing Sony-Ericson and Nokia market share they're unlikely to even pass RIM very soon.
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post #28 of 111
6/10/11 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

And I am sure the folks at Apple would agree. They have always claimed that they are not interested in market share for the sake of it. These forums are full of people who at one time or another have insisted that Apple MUST get into the corporate market and produce low cost computers. Those people clearly don't understand what drives Apple. Having said that, I am sure Apple loves market share as much as the next guy / company.

Agree PAX, marketshare does not matter for Apple. As long as they are profitable and make the best products. They are not out there to please everyone.
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post #29 of 111
6/10/11 at 7:38am
Yikes! So much HTC hate. I'm glad to read about some manufacturers actually turning a profit using Android as the OS since it's those circling the drain that are grabbing onto Android like a life raft. HTC made 1/2 billion in net profit last quarter. That should be good for consumers if they intelligently invest that into competing better against the top dog, Apple.
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post #30 of 111
6/10/11 at 7:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Yikes! So much HTC hate. I'm glad to read about some manufacturers actually turning a profit using Android as the OS since it's those circling the drain that are grabbing onto Android like a life raft.

Tbey're not the only profitable Android maker, Samsung is also profitable.
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post #31 of 111
6/10/11 at 7:43am
I'm not surprised. HTC makes a very well-built phone hardware wise. They also have the enthusiast appeal by not locking down their bootloaders. Only issue with them is that they're pretty slow on the update side of things.

And with them having high end, desirable phones on every network (Thunderbolt on verizon, Inspire on AT&T, Evo on sprint, and the G2 on t-mobile) its not really surprising that they're the top android manufacturer right now.
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post #32 of 111
6/10/11 at 7:43am
Is HTC a US smartphone maker? Don't think so. Maybe they will top the US market in the number of smartphones sold? Apple could be classified a US smartphone maker, but the iPhones are all made in Asia.

This article is the typical garbage spewed by "industry experts"

The "experts" always focus on market share, not profits. I doubt market share means little to Apple when they are making the profits they do from iPhones and all the associated services and media sales that go with them.

How much profit does HTC make from each phone?
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post #33 of 111
6/10/11 at 7:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Yikes! So much HTC hate. I'm glad to read about some manufacturers actually turning a profit using Android as the OS since it's those circling the drain that are grabbing onto Android like a life raft. HTC made 1/2 billion in net profit last quarter. That should be good for consumers if they intelligently invest that into competing better against the top dog, Apple.

I believe the number you are looking for is 1.42 Billion: http://www.knowyourmobile.com/blog/9...o_precise.html

Your statement, as an android enthusiast myself sees is correct. Any company content on releasing noticeable # of Android phones in a short period of time is in some sort of trouble.

An Analysis of all the major Manufacturers:

HTC: Android favorite, championed by the developer community, Phones have excellent build quality, Sense UI is most consumer/non-tech friendly android skin that doesn't directly rip iOS(COUGH, samsung, COUGH), and actually LISTENS to it's buyers

Samsung: Noted for excellent phones though they are usually plastic in build, Championed by Multi carrier enthusiasts, UI is TOO similar to iOS, criticized for Abysmally slow updates,
Developer community is neutral, Samsung is currently trying to win more support.

Motorola: Riding Verizon's "Droid" line, noted for metallic builds, loathed by developer community, Newer phones are not much better than the original phones, UI is HORRIBLE.

LG: Build quality is acceptable, Dev community is still not convinced, UI looks to similar to iOS, Newer premier phones experiencing multiple issues.

Sony: Little support shown for most phones, Gaming community attraction to Xperia Play died with Vita announcement, new player, Dev community not convinced.
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post #34 of 111
6/10/11 at 8:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph L View Post

Pretty much nothing. The only ones sold are BOGOS.

Incorrect, while HTC isn't as profitable as Apple it is making money - going from the research from Asymco HTC is only a little below RIM in terms of profit per phone.

http://www.asymco.com/2011/05/26/a-n...-market-index/

It's Motorola, SE and LG who aren't making money.
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post #35 of 111
6/10/11 at 8:09am
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Originally Posted by Jexus View Post

I believe the number you are looking for is 1.42 Billion: http://www.knowyourmobile.com/blog/9...o_precise.html

The article in your link is gibberish. $1.42 for "May 2011" while flip-flopping between the terms profit and sales as if they were the same and not qualifying the type of profit.

Here are couple real links:

•

http://www.bgr.com/2011/04/08/htc-q1...ndroid-phones/
• http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/08/h...riding-the-sm/
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post #36 of 111
6/10/11 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexus View Post

I believe the number you are looking for is 1.42 Billion: http://www.knowyourmobile.com/blog/9...o_precise.html

That article is a bit confusing. it states 1.42b in profits in the title, but the article states that's sales (so don't know if its referring to revenue or profit) in may alone.

Anyways, from WSJ: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...906345328.html

For the entire year of 2010, HTC had a revenue of NT$278b, with a profit of NT$39b. So right around a 15% profit margin. Not Apple levels, but not too bad either.
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post #37 of 111
6/10/11 at 8:24am
Here's what I think Apple is going to do:

1) Offer 2 new iPhones
-- a top-of-the-line iPhone with all the latest and greatest features
-- a lower-price iPhone for less-demanding needs/users

2) Make some creative package deals with the carriers
-- less expensive family plan
-- shared data
-- more- flexible contracts
-- better warranty replacement
-- easier, less-expensive 12 or 18 month upgrade
-- One-stop shopping

The objectives:
-- A compelling reason for every person in the family to have an iPhone
-- A competitive offering for those who cannot currently justify an iPhone

Tim Cook has said that Apple is going to do the lower-price option.

At some point, we will have reached the capacities (CPU cores, GPU cores, SSD, RAM, etc.) that are meaningful for a phone -- we may be close to this now.

Services, such as iCloud and iMessage will reduce some of the hardware requirements of new iPhones.
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post #38 of 111
6/10/11 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph L View Post

Everybody I know realizes that people define you by the phone you use.

I call BS. Only a naive, self absorbed, pretentious wanker would believe they are defined by, or can define others by, a phone.

You can't possibly know so many of these people.
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post #39 of 111
6/10/11 at 8:52am
This type of competition is great. It only makes Apple that much better. Just think of the secret features Apple will announce about iOS 5 come this fall.
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post #40 of 111
6/10/11 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

The strange thing is that as I travel around America all I see are iPhones. Who has all this Android phones?

I have a few geeky friends who have Android phones because they feel they can customize their droid phones to their liking and they just want to buck the trend of having an iPhone. They're dopes of course...
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