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With later arrival of new iPhone, HTC may challenge Apple as top US smartphone maker - Page 2

post #41 of 108
6/10/11 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

-- Top of the line - ip4
-- lower price - ip3gs (I have seen it for $0.-) - Or were you thinking Apple will bring out a BRAND NEW lower cost model?

I think the point is that when they bring out the iPhone 5 they don't want to keep making the iPhone 3GS, but the iPhone 4 may not be suited to the low cost segment due to the intrinsically expensive construction and materials.

So we may see eventually an update to the 3GS that keeps the plastic enclosure but updates the internals, in much the same way as the MacBook is pretty much the same as a MacBook Pro but is just built of less expensive materials.
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post #42 of 108
6/10/11 at 9:34am
Apple continued to support the 3G with new OS updates after two years. iOS 5 will be supported on the 3GS which will be over 2 years old this Fall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

Of course, you have to factor in your two-year contract and the fact that you probably won't get software updates at the tail end of that contract after the iPhone 6 comes out, but it may be a good deal, depending on what the 5 has in it.
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post #43 of 108
6/10/11 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph L View Post

Everybody I know realizes that people define you by the phone you use.

And nobody wants to be defined as a cheapskate who likes to steal apps.

A lot of people don't mind to be defined with someone who likes to steal apps:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=21871

Thought one needs to be shallow to the extreme to define others by the phone they use, or to wish to be defined in that fashion.
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post #44 of 108
6/10/11 at 10:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

A lot of people don't mind to be defined with someone who likes to steal apps:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=21871

Yawn - that is such a non story. A guy wrote an app that used either non-public functions or some other prohibited method to modify the iTunes library, he gave it a generic name and a generic icon based on two previously existing iOS/generic icons.

Of course it was rejected by the App Store and of course the functionality ended up being a core part of iOS and of course the name and icon look just like his.

Again - there was and is NO legitimate way for a complying iPhone app to modify the iTunes library. There is no legal case here, there isn't even a moral case here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Apple continued to support the 3G with new OS updates after two years. iOS 5 will be supported on the 3GS which will be over 2 years old this Fall.

Yes, but at some point it will need a hardware refresh - the CPU will just be too slow to support the latest apps. The only real question is what they'll call it then.
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post #45 of 108
6/10/11 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Here's what I think Apple is going to do:

1) Offer 2 new iPhones
-- a top-of-the-line iPhone with all the latest and greatest features
-- a lower-price iPhone for less-demanding needs/users

More like they will do what they have been doing.

Create a new phone
Step the last model down to an even lower storage level with a lower price for those that don't need the absolute latest and greatest

Quote:

2) Make some creative package deals with the carriers

Unless Apple wants to get into the cell phone carrier business, they need the carriers compliance to support the iphones at all. To do that, they have to stand out of demanding too much in terms of upgrade rules, pricing etc.

The most they are likely to do is unlock the dang phones and let all carriers with the tech have them. Even if that means that someone on a Mom and Pop has to play the risky game of cutting down a Sim card to get it to fit in the tray. If they are that nutty, go for it. If they screw it up and a boinked Sim card is why the phone isn't working Apple can just send the person out to get a new sim from their carrier (rather than replace the phone itself) in keeping with their 'user damage' rules.

Perhaps they might even make a single phone that can handle both ATT and TMobile 3g plus Verizon (and the appropriate GSM little guys), just switching via a sim card and/or software adjustment.

With more choices to the user, the carriers will have to get savvy on their plans to win folks over and keep them after contracts end. I actually know a lot of folks that would be happy to pay full price for an unlocked US phone and then move around until they find the service they like. Folks like that are a carrier's nightmare


Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post


Of course it was rejected by the App Store and of course the functionality ended up being a core part of iOS and of course the name and icon look just like his.

Lets also consider that wireless syncing is the natural next step, one that folks have been yelling for since day one and one that Apple has probably been working on for that long. So it's unlikely that they had to 'rip off' his version because they were already creating their own, better one. Which is why they really rejected it. They just didn't want to show their hand on the feature just then so they took a little time to see if there was another legit reason for the rejection. Which added to the time it was taking just due to tons of apps being submitted every day to be reviewed by perhaps 50 people tops.
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post #46 of 108
6/10/11 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Here's what I think Apple is going to do:

1) Offer 2 new iPhones
-- a top-of-the-line iPhone with all the latest and greatest features
-- a lower-price iPhone for less-demanding needs/users

2) Make some creative package deals with the carriers
-- less expensive family plan
-- shared data
-- more- flexible contracts
-- better warranty replacement
-- easier, less-expensive 12 or 18 month upgrade
-- One-stop shopping

The objectives:
-- A compelling reason for every person in the family to have an iPhone
-- A competitive offering for those who cannot currently justify an iPhone

Tim Cook has said that Apple is going to do the lower-price option.

At some point, we will have reached the capacities (CPU cores, GPU cores, SSD, RAM, etc.) that are meaningful for a phone -- we may be close to this now.

Services, such as iCloud and iMessage will reduce some of the hardware requirements of new iPhones.

AGREED
except
maybe take all of number.> 2 << reasons and instead maybe apple will handle the contracts and handle all carrier stuff them selves . apple would buy time for us direct from the carriers .
with the smaller nano phone .

just talking

9

apple already owns a patent on the SW >>>> MVDO <<< WHICH CAN SWITCH FROM CARRIER TO CARRIER when on a call .

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...highlight=mvno
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post #47 of 108
6/10/11 at 10:19am
Point being that Apple promised to only support iOS updates for two years. And have gone beyond the two years they promised. Of course eventually support will be cut off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Yes, but at some point it will need a hardware refresh - the CPU will just be too slow to support the latest apps. The only real question is what they'll call it then.
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post #48 of 108
6/10/11 at 10:23am
Do you really believe Apple suddenly got the idea to build a billion dollar cloud service and give it away for free because of this developer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Again - there was and is NO legitimate way for a complying iPhone app to modify the iTunes library. There is no legal case here, there isn't even a moral case here.
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post #49 of 108
6/10/11 at 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Which is why they really rejected it.

No - they really rejected it because it was non-compliant. They reject ALL apps that use non public functions - and the iPhone security model is such that Apps can't access other Apps' files. So either his app was breaking the security model or it was using non public functions - or both.

It would be the same if I wrote an app that copied your friends music ratings into your iTunes library where you had the same songs. Even though Apple may have no interest in doing it I would be breaking the development rules by writing into the iTunes DB.

On the other hand if I wrote a music player that browsed the iTunes DB, allowing me to play whatever I wanted from it and then broadcast the names of what I was playing to my friends that would be allowed, even if it directly competed with ping - because that is all supported functionality.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Do you really believe Apple suddenly got the idea to build a billion dollar cloud service and give it away for free because of this developer?

Did I ever say I did? Or are you quoting me because you're agreeing with me? I'm confused
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post #50 of 108
6/10/11 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

I think the point is that when they bring out the iPhone 5 they don't want to keep making the iPhone 3GS, but the iPhone 4 may not be suited to the low cost segment due to the intrinsically expensive construction and materials.

So we may see eventually an update to the 3GS that keeps the plastic enclosure but updates the internals, in much the same way as the MacBook is pretty much the same as a MacBook Pro but is just built of less expensive materials.

+1
I think this is a strong possibility.
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post #51 of 108
6/10/11 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

-- Top of the line - ip4
-- lower price - ip3gs (I have seen it for $0.-) - Or were you thinking Apple will bring out a BRAND NEW lower cost model?

I am thinking a new low-cost model -- so there is some product differentiation, lower manufacturing costs, and higher manufacturing capacity.

Where I don't have any clue is how/what Apple determines the minimum capabilities and capacities for a low-cost model.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


2) Make some creative package deals with the carriers
-- less expensive family plan
-- shared data
-- more- flexible contracts
-- better warranty replacement
-- easier, less-expensive 12 or 18 month upgrade
-- One-stop shopping

Isn't that all up to the carriers?

It always has been -- but that doesn't mean it cannot change.

Remember how ATT changed VoiceMail to cater to the original iPhone.

I believe Apple has more negotiating power with the carriers than any single competitor.

I believe Apple has some exclusive offerings (planned and currently available) that give it great negotiating power:

For example Apple's online and Stick and Stucco stores. Currently, when you go to upgrade to a new iPhone you are given a flat Yes or No ($299 vs $499), based on your contract date. How about Apple suggests to the carrier: "Why don't we find a way in Apple Stores (supported by you the carrier) to give the customer what he wants -- prorate the contract, eliminate ETFs, and encourage sign-up and hand-me-down of the older model as a working iPhone (instead of a SIMless iPhone serving as an iPod Touch).

So, the above customer pays, maybe, $399 and gives the older model to his child.

So, the customer who wants to buy now, is given a way to do so -- rather than being told: "No iPhone for you today -- you must wait".

That's just Sales 101.

Also, Apple has a lot of services (and presumably much more coming) that consume bandwidth -- exactly what the carriers are selling and making profits on. Apple could negotiate with the carriers to provide more of these services in exchange for reduced data charges and higher (or eliminated) caps.

As an illustration:

Apple: Our new iPhone Nano only has 8 GB SDD, so we want to encourage users to redownload songs and apps from the iTunes stores whenever needed -- over 3G as well as WiFi. How about we, Apple, reimburse you, the carrier, $.01 for each song and $.05 for each app our customers download over your 3G.

Now, there's a snowball's chance that the above would happen -- but there are things that Apple can do for the carriers to the benefit of customers, carriers and Apple, alike.
Quote:
iCloud will only reduce the storage capacity requirement. But I am not sure to what extent. The way I see it iCloud is more about (multiple) device and content management, and about making future purchase decision lean towards Apple, whether that be a computer, laptop, tablet or smartphone, and less about catering to new customers on a limited budget.

I agree... what we know about iCloud today. But, if that's all there is, I doubt that Apple would have bothered. iCloud is currently WiFi only -- but I suspect that plans are in place for cell radio support.

Also what about streaming content -- I suspect we will see that within a year after the iCloud roll out.
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post #52 of 108
6/10/11 at 10:56am
I guess I was confused by your statement and checking on what you meant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Did I ever say I did? Or are you quoting me because you're agreeing with me? I'm confused
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post #53 of 108
6/10/11 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

I think the point is that when they bring out the iPhone 5 they don't want to keep making the iPhone 3GS, but the iPhone 4 may not be suited to the low cost segment due to the intrinsically expensive construction and materials.

So we may see eventually an update to the 3GS that keeps the plastic enclosure but updates the internals, in much the same way as the MacBook is pretty much the same as a MacBook Pro but is just built of less expensive materials.

Exactly!

Maybe, the entry iPhone has an A4 (256 RAM) and no retina display -- hardware/cost tradeoffs based on the anticipated usage of the target market.

At the end of a model period (not necessarily a year) the older model of iP and iPEntry will be offered at a discount until stock runs out -- instead of continued manufacturing of last-years model.

The release of iP and iPEntry could be staggered if there were advantages to doing so.
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– Alan Kay –
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– Alan Kay –
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post #54 of 108
6/10/11 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post

Strange to think that Microsoft makes $5 on every HTC Android handset sold. They're making more money from Android right now than WP7.

They might be making more money on HTC phones than HTC itself!
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post #55 of 108
6/10/11 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

AGREED
except
maybe take all of number.> 2 << reasons and instead maybe apple will handle the contracts and handle all carrier stuff them selves . apple would buy time for us direct from the carriers .
with the smaller nano phone .

just talking

9

apple already owns a patent on the SW >>>> MVDO <<< WHICH CAN SWITCH FROM CARRIER TO CARRIER when on a call .

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...highlight=mvno

Ha! Apple certainly has that option in it's back pocket. And, It should be a great invisible "elephant in the room" when negotiating with carriers.

However, I would bet against Apple getting into the MVNO business any more than they would get into the Song/Movie/Book publishing or Cable business.

There are more profitable opportunities for Apple -- and they can use those profits to negotiate for what they want form the carriers, etc.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
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– Alan Kay –
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post #56 of 108
6/10/11 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Exactly!
Maybe, the entry iPhone has an A4 (256 RAM) and no retina display -- hardware/cost tradeoffs based on the anticipated usage of the target market.

Something like that, though it may actually have internals that are close to the big brother phone. I'm not sure that the price difference between A4 and A5 is all that great, and it's imperative that both phones run the same suite of apps. They may also use their diffusion line to introduce colour bodies back into their product line. The current crop of iDevices are very masculine in aesthetic and very modernist - but remember how insanely well the first crop of iPod mini's sold with women?

A plastic fascia allows for cheaper construction, more use of colour and even greater opportunity for co-branding, because those crazy asians sure do love their co-branding.

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post #57 of 108
6/10/11 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Handset maker HTC has seen strong sales of its Android-based smartphones on all four U.S. carriers, putting the Taiwanese company in a position to contend with Apple for the title of top smartphone seller in the U.S.

Sales of the HTC Thunderbolt on Verizon and Inspire 4G on AT&T have not topped the iPhone on each carrier's network, but those devices are said to be by far the top-selling Android-powered handsets.

And with the addition of smartphone sales through carriers Sprint and T-Mobile -- two carriers where Apple's iPhone is not available -- HTC is "set to challenge" Apple's position as the top U.S. smartphone maker, according to sources that spoke with DigiTimes.

The HTC Thunderbolt is said to be the second most popular smartphone on Verizon's network, trailing only the iPhone. And on AT&T, the Inspire 4G is also the best-selling Android phone, with sales almost three times higher than the Motorola Atrix 4G.

With sales on Sprint and T-Mobile, HTC took second place in terms of hardware sales in the first quarter of 2011, trailing only Apple. And HTC may find itself in a position now to threaten Apple's spot at the top of the U.S. market, the report said.

"With the absence of a next-generation iPhone, and the fact that rival Motorola has been forced to postpone the launch of its 4G models, HTC has a chance to further narrow the gap in market share against Apple before the third quarter," sources reportedly said.

"Most Popular", "Best Selling", "Highest Sales"...but NOT "Best Phone"
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post #58 of 108
6/10/11 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

I call BS. Only a naive, self absorbed, pretentious wanker would believe they are defined by, or can define others by, a phone.

You can't possibly know so many of these people.

Birds of a feather and all that....
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post #59 of 108
6/10/11 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

1) Offer 2 new iPhones
-- a top-of-the-line iPhone with all the latest and greatest features
-- a lower-price iPhone for less-demanding needs/users
.
.
.
Tim Cook has said that Apple is going to do the lower-price option.

At some point, we will have reached the capacities (CPU cores, GPU cores, SSD, RAM, etc.) that are meaningful for a phone -- we may be close to this now.

Services, such as iCloud and iMessage will reduce some of the hardware requirements of new iPhones.

Good points. I'm going to throw a wild card out there. Apple gets rid of the second tier and goes to a single model with a lower price. A $149 (on contract) iPhone 4S/5. It's far fetched but I think there's merit to the idea. Apple doesn't sell last year's iPad. Why would they need to sell last year's iPhone?

Today, they do it as a way to offer a cheaper handset for half the on-contract price. However, they could easily split the difference, get rid of the lower model and pocket quite a few sales.

The benefit would be, that they could reduce the number of years they have to support a handset to 2 years. That's very valuable in the fast moving mobile world.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

2) Make some creative package deals with the carriers
-- less expensive family plan
-- shared data
-- more- flexible contracts
-- better warranty replacement
-- easier, less-expensive 12 or 18 month upgrade
-- One-stop shopping

The objectives:
-- A compelling reason for every person in the family to have an iPhone
-- A competitive offering for those who cannot currently justify an iPhone

Fat chance. As much as people hate them, the carriers have to make a profit too. After Apple just threatened to erode a huge profit centre (SMS/MMS) for them, they aren't going to be likely to be in a mood to deal much unless it can really be shown that such deals will lead to more net revenue. And the only way that works, is if Apple can actually show that a family plan will lead to family paying more overall. Or more specifically, enough to offset the cost to give each member of the family an iPhone.

Here's my prediction: you won't see anything about service plans.

Apple's just going to try and sell more phones by getting on more carriers.
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post #60 of 108
6/10/11 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I am thinking a new low-cost model -- so there is some product differentiation, lower manufacturing costs, and higher manufacturing capacity.

Where I don't have any clue is how/what Apple determines the minimum capabilities and capacities for a low-cost model.



It always has been -- but that doesn't mean it cannot change.

Remember how ATT changed VoiceMail to cater to the original iPhone.

I believe Apple has more negotiating power with the carriers than any single competitor.

I believe Apple has some exclusive offerings (planned and currently available) that give it great negotiating power:

For example Apple's online and Stick and Stucco stores. Currently, when you go to upgrade to a new iPhone you are given a flat Yes or No ($299 vs $499), based on your contract date. How about Apple suggests to the carrier: "Why don't we find a way in Apple Stores (supported by you the carrier) to give the customer what he wants -- prorate the contract, eliminate ETFs, and encourage sign-up and hand-me-down of the older model as a working iPhone (instead of a SIMless iPhone serving as an iPod Touch).

So, the above customer pays, maybe, $399 and gives the older model to his child.

So, the customer who wants to buy now, is given a way to do so -- rather than being told: "No iPhone for you today -- you must wait".

That's just Sales 101.

Also, Apple has a lot of services (and presumably much more coming) that consume bandwidth -- exactly what the carriers are selling and making profits on. Apple could negotiate with the carriers to provide more of these services in exchange for reduced data charges and higher (or eliminated) caps.

As an illustration:

Apple: Our new iPhone Nano only has 8 GB SDD, so we want to encourage users to redownload songs and apps from the iTunes stores whenever needed -- over 3G as well as WiFi. How about we, Apple, reimburse you, the carrier, $.01 for each song and $.05 for each app our customers download over your 3G.

Now, there's a snowball's chance that the above would happen -- but there are things that Apple can do for the carriers to the benefit of customers, carriers and Apple, alike.


I agree... what we know about iCloud today. But, if that's all there is, I doubt that Apple would have bothered. iCloud is currently WiFi only -- but I suspect that plans are in place for cell radio support.

Also what about streaming content -- I suspect we will see that within a year after the iCloud roll out.

All this assumes that Apple cares about your monthly bills. They don't. They care about selling phones. They will work with carriers to that end. No more. No less.

Remember when there were rumours about SIM-less iPhones and the carriers in Europe threatened to drop subsidies for the iPhone?

Make no mistake about it, iPhone sales would be drastically cut without carrier subsidies. And the only reason carriers subsidize these handsets now is because they do well from the contracts. Fat chance that Apple is going to rock that boat, just to save you a few dollars a month.

And that goes for all those contract terms, ETFs. etc. They aren't raising them for no reason.
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post #61 of 108
6/10/11 at 12:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

I think the point is that when they bring out the iPhone 5 they don't want to keep making the iPhone 3GS, but the iPhone 4 may not be suited to the low cost segment due to the intrinsically expensive construction and materials.

So we may see eventually an update to the 3GS that keeps the plastic enclosure but updates the internals, in much the same way as the MacBook is pretty much the same as a MacBook Pro but is just built of less expensive materials.

I dunno, we're talking about a bill of materials that's probably only a few dollars apart. And for that Apple would have to take a huge hit on per unit margins? What's the point? Isn't it better to put those resources towards making more current year handsets and selling them at full price. After all, it's not like Apple has a shortage of willing buyers for its merchandise.

I've always understood that the reason they sold last year's device was to maximize their return on the tooling and machining to make the device. It gives them a 2 year production run instead of one. I think its far simpler to keep this practice that try to "artificially" introduce product differentiation. Though, given how fast this tech is starting to move and how quickly the competition is starting to catch up, it's debatable how sustainable the current practice is. Might just be better off to bite the reduced ROI on tooling and just make as many current year models as possible.
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post #62 of 108
6/10/11 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

I dunno, we're talking about a bill of materials that's probably only a few dollars apart. And for that Apple would have to take a huge hit on per unit margins? What's the point? Isn't it better to put those resources towards making more current year handsets and selling them at full price. After all, it's not like Apple has a shortage of willing buyers for its merchandise.

Given that the iphone-4 has an industry leading LCD panel and the 3GS doesn't I'd imagine that it's more than just a few dollars.



Quote:
I've always understood that the reason they sold last year's device was to maximize their return on the tooling and machining to make the device. It gives them a 2 year production run instead of one. I think its far simpler to keep this practice that try to "artificially" introduce product differentiation. Though, given how fast this tech is starting to move and how quickly the competition is starting to catch up, it's debatable how sustainable the current practice is. Might just be better off to bite the reduced ROI on tooling and just make as many current year models as possible.

You have to remember that Apple isn't a firm who redesigns for redesign's sake. The iPhone has undergone rapid change in the design over the last few generations in much the same way that the powerbook did. However as it gets closer to an 'optimal' design from Apple's perspective the changes will become far smaller and the tooling will be switched over far less. We'll end up in a similar situation to the unibody macbook pro which hasn't changed much since it was launched back in 2008.

So at a certain point their premium offering will have a stable form factor with improvements being limited to software and component quality. The iPhone 4 probably isn't quite there, but I think we're getting close.
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post #63 of 108
6/10/11 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph L View Post

Pretty much nothing. The only ones sold are BOGOS.

There hasn't been BOGOs since last year. Please try to keep up
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post #64 of 108
6/10/11 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Good points. I'm going to throw a wild card out there. Apple gets rid of the second tier and goes to a single model with a lower price. A $149 (on contract) iPhone 4S/5. It's far fetched but I think there's merit to the idea. Apple doesn't sell last year's iPad. Why would they need to sell last year's iPhone?

Today, they do it as a way to offer a cheaper handset for half the on-contract price. However, they could easily split the difference, get rid of the lower model and pocket quite a few sales.

The benefit would be, that they could reduce the number of years they have to support a handset to 2 years. That's very valuable in the fast moving mobile world.

That's an interesting alternative.

Quote:
Fat chance. As much as people hate them, the carriers have to make a profit too. After Apple just threatened to erode a huge profit centre (SMS/MMS) for them, they aren't going to be likely to be in a mood to deal much unless it can really be shown that such deals will lead to more net revenue. And the only way that works, is if Apple can actually show that a family plan will lead to family paying more overall. Or more specifically, enough to offset the cost to give each member of the family an iPhone.

Here's my prediction: you won't see anything about service plans.

Apple's just going to try and sell more phones by getting on more carriers.

Well, Apple could, say, reduce the price the carrier pays for the iPhone to compensate the carrier for more flexible plans to Apple's advantage.

You, also must realize that Apple is getting into mobile content services -- where it will be to Apple's advantage to sell services in addition to physical phones. The family unit is a natural starting point for these services.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
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– Alan Kay –
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post #65 of 108
6/10/11 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

All this assumes that Apple cares about your monthly bills. They don't. They care about selling phones. They will work with carriers to that end. No more. No less.

Remember when there were rumours about SIM-less iPhones and the carriers in Europe threatened to drop subsidies for the iPhone?

Make no mistake about it, iPhone sales would be drastically cut without carrier subsidies. And the only reason carriers subsidize these handsets now is because they do well from the contracts. Fat chance that Apple is going to rock that boat, just to save you a few dollars a month.

And that goes for all those contract terms, ETFs. etc. They aren't raising them for no reason.

That's just silly! Of course Apple cares about your monthly bills -- they are one of the major deterrents to buying a smart phone.

In our household we have a family plan of 5 -- 2 adults and 3 children. 2 iPhones and 3 brand x feature phones. All 3 kids have SIMless older iPhones as iPod Touches.

One deterrent to an all iPhone household is the inflexible contracts. Another is the monthly cost of the plan -- shared data would do much to mitigate this.

We have 6 iPads -- 3 are 3G enabled.
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post #66 of 108
6/10/11 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksons View Post



l can only infer that you don't own or run a business. Maybe you can enlighten us on why this is a winning strategy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph L View Post

What a surprise. Make craptastic products and give them away practically for free.

But who is making the biggest profits? That's the company I do business with!

Joe's right on this point, Jack.

Thought Apple may sell only 5% of the phone market, it takes in 20% of the cash and rakes in 55% of profits. The leftovers, 45% of profits are shared among the other companies who sell 95% of the phones. Any businessman in the know would be salivating over such a winning strategy.
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post #67 of 108
6/10/11 at 3:29pm
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Originally Posted by Jexus View Post

I believe the number you are looking for is 1.42 Billion: http://www.knowyourmobile.com/blog/9...o_precise.html

For the non-accountants here: Your article references consolidated sales. Sales is not profit, and consolidated means HTC + all subsidiaries for which it is required to consolidate.
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post #68 of 108
6/10/11 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shen View Post

People who are too ashamed of their cheap phones to take them out and use them in public...

Hence the demand for shameless copies of the iPhone
There's even a copy of Apple's signature white earbuds floating around flea markets and import shops, lest anyone think you've got a non-Apple music player in your pocket.

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post #69 of 108
6/10/11 at 3:55pm
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Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Hence the demand for shameless copies of the iPhone
There's even a copy of Apple's signature white earbuds floating around flea markets and import shops, lest anyone think you've got a non-Apple music player in your pocket.

Though I always think you can spot the real apple geeks because they don't use the apple earbuds
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post #70 of 108
6/10/11 at 4:43pm
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post #71 of 108
6/10/11 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

I think the point is that when they bring out the iPhone 5 they don't want to keep making the iPhone 3GS, but the iPhone 4 may not be suited to the low cost segment due to the intrinsically expensive construction and materials.

So we may see eventually an update to the 3GS that keeps the plastic enclosure but updates the internals, in much the same way as the MacBook is pretty much the same as a MacBook Pro but is just built of less expensive materials.

I dunno.

The iPhone 4 factories are already built and humming along quite nicely. It would make more sense to keep them running for another year to make the $99 iPhone 4... especially if the iPhone 4S or 5 uses the same design.

I'd love to know how many iPhone 3GS Apple makes today... it's gotta be tiny compared to the iPhone 4.

While the iPhone 4 does use more expensive materials... I bet Apple wants to get away from the old plastic cases that came out in 2008.

Plus... I'm sure Apple has more than paid for the tooling for the iPhone 4 design. Switching over the few remaining 3GS factory lines to make iPhone 4 designs shouldn't be too costly.
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post #72 of 108
6/10/11 at 4:54pm
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post #73 of 108
6/10/11 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

I think that apple should offer a different form factor instead of offering a 'entry model,' since the n-1 generation iPhone already has that covered. One of the big reasons that people choose a different smartphone than an iPhone is because they want a different form factor (eg. they want a bigger screen or a hardware keyboard, etc). IMO apple would be better off offering a phone that addresses that market instead of one that competes with the previous generation iphone.

The keyboard form factor suggestion is valid -- except for Apple: "No livin' way".

Apple is dedicated to the touch interface. The biggest concession I see Apple making is a BT kb accessory -- thus not for an entry phone.

OTOH, Apple could offer a touch alternative to the physicat 10+ key keypad.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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– Alan Kay –
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post #74 of 108
6/10/11 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

OTOH, Apple could offer a touch alternative to the physicat 10+ key keypad.

Apple just needs to do this as the final step before a full multitouch desktop OS.

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post #75 of 108
6/10/11 at 8:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

I think that apple should offer a different form factor instead of offering a 'entry model,' since the n-1 generation iPhone already has that covered.

The problem is that iOS app developers already have to support 3 different resolutions, and adding a fourth isn't a great option. On small screens it's very important that the App is optimized for the actual display parameters,

Its homogeneity is one of the big advantages that Apple has over Android as a development platform.
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post #76 of 108
6/11/11 at 12:43am
HTC is building great phones. The EVO 3D is hard to beat, Apple has a lot of catching up to do:

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post #77 of 108
6/11/11 at 12:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

The problem is that iOS app developers already have to support 3 different resolutions, and adding a fourth isn't a great option. On small screens it's very important that the App is optimized for the actual display parameters, Its homogeneity is one of the big advantages that Apple has over Android as a development platform.

No need for different resolution. 4.5" iPhone could have the same resolution as 3.5" iPhone. It's like desktop computer can display the same 1024 x 768 resolution on 15", 17" or 22" or whatever screen.

The same applicable to Android phones. For instance, 5" Dell Streak, 4.3" HTC HD7S and 3.7" HTC Desire - all have the same 480 x 800 resolution.

3.5" iPhone is just too small and it's the only one size option. Apple should also offer a larger version.

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post #78 of 108
6/11/11 at 1:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post

HTC is building great phones. The EVO 3D is hard to beat, Apple has a lot of catching up to do:


The Evo3D is a very impressive device.
That being said, I feel like that table distributes checks randomly?
And why the heck is swype input something people should look at? I'm all for options, but that is the most overrated keyboard known to man.
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post #79 of 108
6/11/11 at 6:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post

HTC is building great phones. The EVO 3D is hard to beat, Apple has a lot of catching up to do:

image: http://s215240594.onlinehome.us/3phones.png

That is the worst spec sheet ever.

For starters, it shows the battery size, not the duration for which various tasks can last with that HW, drivers and OS. Next it marks against the iPhone for not having an 8Mp camera, which it oddly makes as a category, instead of comparing sensor size or quality of photos. I could go on with the other foolish comparisons but I'll be nice and stop there.

PS: Those devices have enough positive points that people don't have to make up silly reasons why they are better than the iPhone.
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post #80 of 108
6/11/11 at 6:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post

HTC is building great phones. The EVO 3D is hard to beat, Apple has a lot of catching up to do:


Some of these seem to be rather subjective, such as the screen size, haptic feedback, Swype, and HDMI output (what a useless "feature.") The battery metric is misleading. It implies that those phones have a longer battery life, but they do not. A removable battery is only a feature for those who can't figure out how to make the power button work when the operating system freezes.

This is why Android-based products will always fall short of iOS. The entire Android community has this unnatural obsession with technical specifications. They spend more time trying to figure out how to cram more overpowered hardware into a phone than they do thinking about improving the user experience.
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  • With later arrival of new iPhone, HTC may challenge Apple as top US smartphone maker
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