or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Space Shuttle Columbia Explodes over Texas
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Space Shuttle Columbia Explodes over Texas - Page 2

post #41 of 278
Yeah, those are views of the *contrail* as it drifts over the area, NOT the debris, as the CNN ditz was saying.

Let's see... Columbia broke apart at ~9am CST, these views are of 11:30amCST... yeah, that's the debris, still hovering in mid air over two hours later. *sigh*
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
post #42 of 278
not the time for critics.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #43 of 278
[quote]Originally posted by Kickaha:
<strong>Yeah, those are views of the *contrail* as it drifts over the area, NOT the debris, as the CNN ditz was saying.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oops. I should've realized that.
post #44 of 278
talking heads fall apart when they have to report news as it happens. the veneer comes off.
post #45 of 278
NBC reported that they have "reason to believe" body parts have been found
post #46 of 278
I believe its been estimated by NASA that one in a hundred shuttle missions will end in disaster, due to the inherent dangers involved. Tragically this estimate seems to have been correct.
post #47 of 278
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>not the time for critics.</strong><hr></blockquote>

When they're reporting on something important, and screwing it up so badly on simple empirical facts, hell yes criticism is needed. It's their *JOB* to report things accurately, and we *rely* on them to do so in times of crisis... this just shows how poorly they do that job.

Out of respect for the crew and their loved ones though, I'll reserve the vitriol against the idiots reporting this for later. I will continue to correct misinformation as I see/hear it however.

I am deeply saddened by this, as are we all. I watched the Challenger launch live 17 years ago, and this is too similar.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
post #48 of 278
[quote]Originally posted by RodUK:
<strong>I believe its been estimated by NASA that one in a hundred shuttle missions will end in disaster, due to the inherent dangers involved. Tragically this estimate seems to have been correct. </strong><hr></blockquote>

NBC just said 1 in 75

sooooo


man......

im sorry, what exactly is the "contrails" made up of?
post #49 of 278
I've been listening to the radio all morning. This is terrible.

Apparently the shuttle was at a point where the stress was highest, so if there was anything wrong, that would be when it happened.

The shuttle's cabin is fairly self-contained and well-armored, but it doesn't have any provision for ejection, or for softening a landing. It's not an escape pod. They might investigate that, but frankly, I'm not sure if ejecting astronauts - with or without a pod - at 12,500MPH 20 miles over the ground, and in the immediate vicinity of a giant tank of incredibly toxic, volatile fuel, would ameliorate anything. The Space Shuttle is not a jet.

I expect that things will be reexamined and reengineered in detail. I'm not sure how much NASA spending or policy will be reformed, because the central problem is that its budget is set more by politics than by science and engineering, and that's not likely to change.

But NASA is not finished. As one aviation expert was quoted as saying, we are pushing the limits of our expertise, and we are undertaking a high-risk venture. Everyone understands that. The astronauts do what they do knowing full well what the risks are, and it would not honor their memories to stop flying into space.

We should mourn the brave astronauts we have lost today. We should investigate the crash down to the bristles on the toothbrushes to figure out exactly what happened, and what could be done to make it less likely to happen again - with the knowledge that perhaps nothing significant could be done, given the sheer number of variables and the sheer magnitude of the stresses involved. And we should continue.

[ 02-01-2003: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
Reply
"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
Reply
post #50 of 278
NBC said body parts were found?!
post #51 of 278
Using some Newtonian Physics:

Assuming that the debri was going 12,500 mph that is about 5588 m/sec.
Using the equation distance = initialvelocity*time + .5*acceleration*time^2
with distance equal to 60,960 m (200,000 ft)

The debri would have fallen for about 11 seconds before hitting the ground.

(This is very inprecise because I assumed that the shuttle was falling at 12,500 mph at the moment of the explosion) If we knew the angle of attack the calculation would be better, since alot of the velocity vector is moving forward not directly down.)

If the debri was motionless at the time of the explosion it would have taken 1.8 minutes. So the real answer is some where inbetween.

But any way this proves that CNN anchors have no knowledge of physics what so ever.
PC Free Since 1999

"Don't copy that floppy!"
Reply
PC Free Since 1999

"Don't copy that floppy!"
Reply
post #52 of 278
[quote]Originally posted by jante99:
<strong>Using some Newtonian Physics:

Assuming that the debri was going 12,500 mph that is about 5588 m/sec.
Using the equation distance = initialvelocity*time + .5*acceleration*time^2
with distance equal to 60,960 m (200,000 ft)

The debri would have fallen for about 11 seconds before hitting the ground.

(This is very inprecise because I assumed that the shuttle was falling at 12,500 mph at the moment of the explosion) If we knew the angle of attack the calculation would be better, since alot of the velocity vector is moving forward not directly down.)

If the debri was motionless at the time of the explosion it would have taken 1.8 minutes. So the real answer is some where inbetween.

But any way this proves that CNN anchors have no knowledge of physics what so ever.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Youy have to take into account the resistence of wind and the aerodynamic profile of the debris. And I think it comes in pretty flat, so 1.8 minutes must be in real low end.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
post #53 of 278
What about the information coming out about the foam that came off during lift-off that could have damaged the shuttle? I have heard about this and wondered why the crew aboard didn't go out and investigate this...probably because they weren't equipped for a space walk?

Well, some questions have to be answered here. But still, this is a high-risk operation evertime they go up...
I AM THE Royal Pain in the Ass.
Reply
I AM THE Royal Pain in the Ass.
Reply
post #54 of 278
The space shuttle Columbia is lost with its crew. A very sad news, reminescent of the 1984 tragedy of Challenger.
« Jparle pas aux cons, ça les instruit. »

From Les Tontons Flingueurs


חברים יש רק באגד
Reply
« Jparle pas aux cons, ça les instruit. »

From Les Tontons Flingueurs


חברים יש רק באגד
Reply
post #55 of 278
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>im sorry, what exactly is the "contrails" made up of?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Water vapor. Cloud.

Any fast moving body through a sufficiently hydrated air space will cause them. You see them behind most jets in the sky, if they're at a high altitude.

A friend within NASA has told me that they believe the vertical stabilizer (tailfin) came off.

[ 02-01-2003: Message edited by: Kickaha ]</p>
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
post #56 of 278
[quote]Originally posted by Artman @_@:
<strong>I have heard about this and wondered why the crew aboard didn't go out and investigate this...probably because they weren't equipped for a space walk?</strong><hr></blockquote>

It sounds like they weren't equipped for a space walk, since they didn't have any planned for the mission. They didn't have any robotic arms/cameras to inspect the damage, either.
post #57 of 278
[quote]Originally posted by Artman @_@:
<strong>What about the information coming out about the foam that came off during lift-off that could have damaged the shuttle? I have heard about this and wondered why the crew aboard didn't go out and investigate this...probably because they weren't equipped for a space walk?

Well, some questions have to be answered here. But still, this is a high-risk operation evertime they go up... </strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm wondering that too, and my initial thoughts were that that had something to do with this, perhaps the tiles that insulate the shuttle during reentry became damaged... but apparently there is a more likely explanation according to this article on time.com:

<a href="http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,418462,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,418462,00.html</a>

Some sort of "aerodynammic structural breakup"...

[ 02-01-2003: Message edited by: ironchef82 ]</p>
post #58 of 278
ironchef's link is better than my ignorant speculation.

[ 02-01-2003: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</p>
post #59 of 278
[quote]Originally posted by Immanuel Goldstein:
<strong>The space shuttle Columbia is lost with its crew. A very sad news, reminescent of the 1984 tragedy of Challenger.</strong><hr></blockquote>


1986
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #60 of 278
Where can video be found on this to download?
post #61 of 278
[quote]Originally posted by thegelding:
<strong>they still haven't changed the <a href="http://www.apple.com/powermac/" target="_blank">powermac</a> site nor random images of 20" lcd at Apple...does anybody know how to get in touch with apple?? even if they can't change the image, perhaps a short memorial? g


edit...gone now

[ 02-01-2003: Message edited by: thegelding ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

post in the right forum much?

<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" />
post #62 of 278
This is a very sad for America. Although This shuttle was the oldest, that should not be a factor since there have been at least 2 if not 3 complete system overhauls since the start of the shuttle program. That is not to say that NASA has the most advanced computers. Because of the radiation in space (which can mess up transistors) a long process of hardening takes place before a computer can opperate in space, so multiple old processors are linked together to perform operationl tasks. I suspect that a substantual anount of tiles came loose the heat then ignited some combustable material, and the rest is history.
"The only second chance you get in life is the chance to make the same mistake twice"
Reply
"The only second chance you get in life is the chance to make the same mistake twice"
Reply
post #63 of 278
On that video that keeps replaying, you see this large white thing break off and wall downward, away from the streaking shuttle. Is that the tail? A wing? Part of a wing?

:eek:



Just seconds after that is that initial bright flare and then you start to see other pieces break away and eventually the large flare breaks into several smaller streaking chunks, each with their own smoke trail.

So sad.

Freakier even is the closeness in time to the Challenger explosion (which, by the way, was memorialized by this crew in space a few days ago). Add to THAT, the 1967 Apollo launchpad fire that killed astronauts White, Chaffe and Grissom during a training exercise. That happend January 27.

The three worst things that have ever happened to our nation's space program have all happened within a 5 day span. Think about that: of all the decades this has been going on, of all the days in a single year, of all the flights, of all the training exercises, of all the other missions, etc. Could've happened any other time on any other missions. This one-week cluster of horrible events.



If I ran NASA, just to avoid tempting fate and "asking for it", I don't think I'd ever schedule another mission for January.
post #64 of 278
[quote]Originally posted by pscates:
<strong>If I ran NASA, just to avoid tempting fate and "asking for it", I don't think I'd ever schedule another mission for January.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Coincidence.
post #65 of 278
[quote]Originally posted by burningwheel:
<strong>

post in the right forum much?

<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

<a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=003737" target="_blank">Look here.</a>

It's relevant.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
post #66 of 278
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" />

I have no TV, so I just read this here right now.

I'm sad. I'll mourn.

Shit.

At first I thought it was a joke, but then I saw the coverage on cnn.com and others (your links). I thought someone was messing it up with Challenger.

Man, man ! why ? My prayers and thoughts are with the families of the astronauts and with the souls of the astronauts themselves.

<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" />
post #67 of 278
[quote]Originally posted by pscates:
<strong>On that video that keeps replaying, you see this large white thing break off and wall downward, away from the streaking shuttle. Is that the tail? A wing? Part of a wing?

:eek:



Just seconds after that is that initial bright flare and then you start to see other pieces break away and eventually the large flare breaks into several smaller streaking chunks, each with their own smoke trail.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

plasma bloom and vapourization combine with contrail to make all the pieces "white" as they re-enter... don't think it's possible to label any fragments as particular colour or component from the video i've seen so far

[quote]<strong>

So sad.

Freakier even is the closeness in time to the Challenger explosion (which, by the way, was memorialized by this crew in space a few days ago). Add to THAT, the 1967 Apollo launchpad fire that killed astronauts White, Chaffe and Grissom during a training exercise. That happend January 27.

The three worst things that have ever happened to our nation's space program have all happened within a 5 day span. Think about that: of all the decades this has been going on, of all the days in a single year, of all the flights, of all the training exercises, of all the other missions, etc. Could've happened any other time on any other missions. This one-week cluster of horrible events.



If I ran NASA, just to avoid tempting fate and "asking for it", I don't think I'd ever schedule another mission for January.</strong><hr></blockquote>

this exact coincidence of Jan 27/28 disasters was raised recently... mariners are superstitious folk at times... spacefarers ride the sky in ships... the bell on the ISS is tolling

surreal to hear the replay of Columbia's Tribute to Challenger/Apollo from earlier this mission

it's not that NASA won't fly this week in future, but i'd bet the january shift is double staffed for a few years

hopefully the result of this tragedy is a commitment to develop new technologies for spaceflight that INCREASE our explorations

the best memorial and method of recovery is a renewed vow to safely go back to space, go farther and stay longer, and go more often

ad luna, ad ares, ad astra

a sad week, but a chance to change the future

[ 02-01-2003: Message edited by: curiousuburb ]</p>
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
Reply
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
Reply
post #68 of 278
shit...
i just woke up 30 minutes ago...to this shit!
bah...i bet if i was awake i could have heard the sonic boom. there are reports from all over texas of people hearing this thing. i can't believe i slept through this! i hate this...
NASA is one of the things that i have always looked up to and always hoped to have the opportunity of joining...
well at least buzz aldrin is trying to get people to not give up on the space program. i sure as hell hope things go on.

i'm sorry, but watching this broadcast from johnson space center, where i've gone many times before, it's hitting me hard...
"If it weren't for my horse...I wouldn't have spent that year in college."

"If curling is an olympic sport, then oral sex is adultery. If anything, oral sex should be an olympic sport...cause it's...
Reply
"If it weren't for my horse...I wouldn't have spent that year in college."

"If curling is an olympic sport, then oral sex is adultery. If anything, oral sex should be an olympic sport...cause it's...
Reply
post #69 of 278
imagine what the two americans and one russian still aboard the ISS are going through right now...
what a terrible feeling they must be experiencing...
"If it weren't for my horse...I wouldn't have spent that year in college."

"If curling is an olympic sport, then oral sex is adultery. If anything, oral sex should be an olympic sport...cause it's...
Reply
"If it weren't for my horse...I wouldn't have spent that year in college."

"If curling is an olympic sport, then oral sex is adultery. If anything, oral sex should be an olympic sport...cause it's...
Reply
post #70 of 278
I live right around where this took place. I didn't hear it, but a friend of mine did...he said it rumbled his house. We went to the Ballpark in Arlington for opening day tickets, and while we had a good time, the mood out here is obviously very somber. It is truly a sad day.
post #71 of 278
America has been through this before.
America will go through this again.
America will not be stopped.

Deepest, deepest sympathies to the Astronaut's families, my fellow Americans, and to the people of Israel.


Aries 1B
"I pictured myself sitting in the shade of a leafy tree in a public park, a stylus in hand, a shiny Apple Tablet computer in my lap, and a pouty Jennifer Connelly stirring a pitcher of gimlets a...
Reply
"I pictured myself sitting in the shade of a leafy tree in a public park, a stylus in hand, a shiny Apple Tablet computer in my lap, and a pouty Jennifer Connelly stirring a pitcher of gimlets a...
Reply
post #72 of 278
On a somewhat related (and, hopefully, lighter) note: could SOMEONE yank Dan Rather off the air ASAP?

What a doddering trainwreck of an anchorperson.

:eek:
post #73 of 278
[quote]Originally posted by pscates:
<strong>On a somewhat related (and, hopefully, lighter) note: could SOMEONE yank Dan Rather off the air ASAP?

What a doddering trainwreck of an anchorperson.

:eek: </strong><hr></blockquote>

agreed.
&lt;Switching Back to NBC&gt;

[ 02-01-2003: Message edited by: FormerLurker ]</p>
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
post #74 of 278
Why? What's wrong with Dan Rather today?
post #75 of 278
By the way, are there any reports of anyone (or any structures) on the ground that were harmed by any falling debris?

I've seen pieces lying on roadways and parking lots, 2-4 feet wide in some cases.

It's a miracle nobody was conked in the head by some of this stuff.

They show a cow pasture in Fort Worth with a fairly large and smoldering section of blackened land. There are investigators and cows milling around the site. Makes me wonder if there were any cows standing there when that thing hit?

There was footage of a piece about the size of a shoebox on the roof of someone's house (how it didn't blast through and go on straight to the cellar is beyond me).

I hear now that the debris is being located over five states.

:eek:
post #76 of 278
[quote]Originally posted by ShawnPatrickJoyce:
<strong>Why? What's wrong with Dan Rather today?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Do you remember how silly and weird he was acting on election night 2000? Shades of that.

He's just an odd bird: what he says, how he says it, his mannerisms, metaphors, quirky pauses, dramatic flourishes, stammers, deer in the headlights facial expressions, quivering lip, either on the verge of tears/indignation OR eulogizing in very lofty terms (and mangling that as bad as anything Dubya ever has), asks far-out/leading questions to various on-air guests, states the obvious, ignores the vague, fills space and dead-air in the clumsiest of manners, etc.

Just a huge difference compared to the other guys on the other channels. He just stands out a bit in his ways.

[ 02-01-2003: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #77 of 278
Oh, I thought you were talking about today. I didn't realize you were putting the man down generally speaking as well.

Anyway, Dan Rather's the best. Much better than any anchor on NBC or ABC. Although I like to think that intelligent news anchors went out when Walter Cronkite retired. That much we can agree on.

[ 02-01-2003: Message edited by: ShawnPatrickJoyce ]

[ 02-01-2003: Message edited by: ShawnPatrickJoyce ]</p>
post #78 of 278
I AM talking about today. But thanks for filling in the gaps I never intended.



As a frame of reference - since you asked - I said the way he acted on election night (bizarre commentary and all). Although, to his credit, he's not mentioned anything about cafeteria Jell-o today.

He's simply acting like some of these local 20-something reporters who has never spent much time in front of a camera, that's all. He's been around since the invention of dirt, but you'd never know it by today.

The people on ABC, NBC, MSNBC, Fox and CNN are all quite different. But don't take my word for it...turn on the TV and confirm for yourself.

[ 02-01-2003: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #79 of 278
[quote]Originally posted by ShawnPatrickJoyce:
<strong>Although I like to think that intelligent news anchors went out when Walter Cronkite retired. That much we can agree on.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well I don't know. I missed the bulk of his career and he retired a while ago and I wasn't exactly watching his broadcast every night. I'm not quite sure where you acquired such a Cronkite admiration from since he was probably mostly out of the picture by then.

Of the three networks, I like Jennings the best, then Brokaw.

I don't know enough about Cronkite to respond one way or the other. He's a legend, but I was a kid (or not even born) during his heyday.
post #80 of 278
FYI, Paul, there was some footage of a house on fire in Texas that was reported to have been started by falling debris. It was either on NBC or CNN, but they haven't followed up yet.

[spelling]

[ 02-01-2003: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</p>
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Space Shuttle Columbia Explodes over Texas