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Apple accused of appropriating rejected 'Wi-Fi Sync' app - Page 3

post #81 of 195
What most (all?) seem to be overlooking is that the Apple official app is fundamentally different from the student's app. The official app syncs with the owner's reference repository in Apple's cloud, not a repository on a local Mac or PC. The student's app couldn't do this because that infrastructure did not exist before iOS 5. If Apple had allowed the app it would have introduced significant confusion for customers who really don't want to think about and try to understand subtle technical issues.

Apple is the platform creator and owner with their own roadmap for how the platform will evolve. The contested app was probably a very clever hack that used private API's and/or reverse engineering of data structures. Apple was reserving wifi syncing for syncing to the cloud. Apple's decision can be justified for unsentimental technical reasons.
post #82 of 195
Apple doesn't have to steal apps from Developers. We should realize the Apple Labs have many features under development that we don't know about or may never see. If they don't have something in an OS and they want it bad enough, they can just purchase it. $70 Billion Cash can buy almost anything.
post #83 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTBuzz View Post

Apple doesn't have to steal apps from Developers. We should realize the Apple Labs have many features under development that we don't know about or may never see. If they don't have something in an OS and they want it bad enough, they can just purchase it. $70 Billion Cash can buy almost anything.

I guess you don't understand the issue. It has little to do with "copying" of the functionality. It has do with the use of the same app name and the striking resemblance of the logos.
post #84 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

I guess you don't understand the issue. It has little to do with "copying" of the functionality. It has do with the use of the same app name and the striking resemblance of the logos.

People have already pointed out that both the names and logos were essentially generic and neither was trademarked.
post #85 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenclaw View Post

Whoa there chief, that's a completely subjective place you are arriving at.

The simplest explanation to me is that the app got jacked.

Can you explain why you think this is the simplest explanation when Apple had wireless sync, even via iTunes, long before there was a public SDK for iOS?
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post #86 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksons View Post

You need to brush up on your knowledge of this area of the law.

Ah, no. He needs to brush up on the real facts of the situation. You need to learn to read.

Just kidding


Sort of ...
post #87 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Can you explain why you think this is the simplest explanation when Apple had wireless sync, even via iTunes, long before there was a public SDK for iOS?

Well, it is a simple explanation. No explanation needed unless one is not particularly bright.

However, a simple explanation is often not the real version of what happened.

Would Apple just "jack" some kid's app, including the logo and app name? Really, Apple is that brazen, not to mention stupid? How long would it take them to design a completely different logo? Did this kid really $500k? How much of this is believable?

Let's not forget - until Apple spoke up, it looked pretty clear, not to mention "simple", that they were tracking the location of iPhone users.

Then Apple spoke up and ... Duh! All those who stayed up all night to decode the data stored had it all wrong! I suspect this situation will turn out to be similar.
post #88 of 195
The concept:

Obvious, and talked about since long before the first iPhone. Any hints/rumors of an Apple device that could play your music and had network ability led to the obvious idea of syncing songs wirelessly. The Zune did it too. Apple was inevitably going to do it. This guy didn’t invent the concept, nor did Apple “copy” it from him. He knew all along that he was only filling a temporary gap while iOS, a young OS, rapidly evolved. I’m glad he helped some people and saw some sales in the meantime.

The name:

Not even a brand. Just the obvious words that describe it: WiFi sync. There’s no other common term for either of those words.

The logo:

He copied it from Apple’s own icons. That doesn’t give him ownership of Apple’s WiFi and iSync icons. How could Apple not use its own icons to represent WiFi syncing once the feature was ready?

The app:

Is not what Apple’s doing at all. Apple’s feature is OS-level.

The scandal:

Tea Party Logic at its finest. Some people will see what they expect in the world. Evidence not required.

The free publicity:

Probably won’t do that much for this guy in the end. I feel bad that his sales will taper off. That’s inevitable for a software product, and particularly for this one. No one could be surprised.
post #89 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by now4real954 View Post

this was a douche thing to do without even giving the guy a bone...just wrong

He didn't use any approved APIs. He didn't follow any instructions for making his application.

And then the Cydia wireless sync guy doesn't even have any right to complain at all.

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post #90 of 195
While the fuctionality may be the same, most likely the operative code and premise is different.
While the creator of the App may feel his idea was stolen, this is a generic concept which perception can interprut in many ways.
post #91 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenclaw View Post

Whoa there chief, that's a completely subjective place you are arriving at.

The simplest explanation to me is that the app got jacked.

Nonsense. You know that billion dollar data center Apple has been building? That is what they target for wifi sync. The Apple wifi sync will work even if you don't own a Mac or PC (for instance if you own multiple mobile devices like an iPod touch and iPad). Apple certainly had this planned before they started spending all that money building their first data center.

The two products are vastly different. The similarities are all superficial. There is no legitimate case here if you understand any of the technical issues involved. Forget about it, Jake, it's chinatown (or in our case it's a post-PC world).
post #92 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

He didn't use any approved APIs. He didn't follow any instructions for making his application.

And then the Cydia wireless sync guy doesn't even have any right to complain at all.

Slightly off-topic, but if Apple's SDK *lets* developers see un-approved APIs then someone at Apple needs to read a book.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #93 of 195
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.
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post #94 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

Slightly off-topic, but if Apple's SDK *lets* developers see un-approved APIs then someone at Apple needs to read a book.

Right, because on most platforms, private APIs are entirely undiscoverable.
post #95 of 195
1) The idea of Wi-Fi Sync is pretty obvious. It's implementation method that counts...

2) The icon thing is head-slappingly obvious. WiFi+Sync = WiFi Sync. Radio waves + Arrow Circles = Radio waves inside of arrow circles.

3) Having said that, I'll reserve judgement... I don't know how either this guy's nor Apples' implementation works. If there's code from his app in Apple's Wi-Fi Sync, then there's a problem. I haven't seen a line of code from either one so I'm admittedly ignorant on it...
post #96 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicNReason View Post

You're kidding right?
He's probably upset since he made an app for the iPhone, it was rejected, and now the company that rejected it is using it. While I don't think he'll have a case against Apple (unless they used his code...which is doubtful), if you're throwing this away as some moron wanting attention, you're...well...idiotic.

Haven't seen anyone post the obvious here... That Apple rejected it precisely BECAUSE they had wireless sync slated for release. Same reason many publishers don't take unsolicited submissions. The very act of accepting opens them up to charges of stealing.
post #97 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormj View Post

I'm really disappointed with Apple Insider for pushing this trash.

Of the numerous ways in which this "article" is just plain wrong, let me catalog just a couple.

First, it shows an utter lack of understanding of the firmament in which claims like this exist. I wrote on an AppleLink forum in 1991 that I thought a color Mac Classic would be a great idea. Does that mean Apple can't do it? No. As other commenters have pointed out, this douche did not invent wireless synching.


This is a copyright case, not a patent case. "Invention" is not an element of the Copyright Law. Did Apple copy his code and/or design? is the question to be answered.
post #98 of 195
So last year he submits an app to the store. The employee that takes a look at it and realizes what he is looking at. He jumps up from his chair and runs into Steve Jobs office yelling I've discovered iCloud. Apple immediately formulates the entire concept and announces it one year later. Don't we really think that Apple had this concept in mind prior to his submission? I am thinking that Apple recognized how close he was to what they were doing and rejected it to avoid this situation later. Apple would have been smart to dip into petty cash and buy this student off for say one million.
post #99 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Well, it is a simple explanation. No explanation needed unless one is not particularly bright.

However, a simple explanation is often not the real version of what happened.

Would Apple just "jack" some kid's app, including the logo and app name? Really, Apple is that brazen, not to mention stupid?

Apple doesn't need to be brazen or stupid. Of the 12,000 Apple employees in Cupertino, only one such employee needs to screw up to make Apple liable. To speak of Apple as a person capable of being "brazen" or "stupid" is quite ridiculous.
post #100 of 195
I don't recall Apple publicly commenting on any application it has rejected. It probably rejects thousands. Why would it publicly comment on this one? You also seem to assume a whole bunch. Namely, everything the kid says is true, and Apple must be underhanded and dishonest.

First, wi-fi syncing is not a new concept. Macs currently sync with wireless hard drives through Time Machine. Contacts, Calendars and Email also synced through MobileMe. Syncing is everywhere and offered by companies like Google and Microsoft as well.

Second, the kid does not hold a patent in any idea (at least not that has been reported), and it is highly unlikely Apple borrowed any of the kid's code as Apple's syncing works much differently so Apple hasn't committed a copyright violation.

Third, many non-developers are suggesting the kid didn't break the rules. That is from the kid. Yet, many developers are suggesting it wasn't possible to bring the kid's product to market without breaking the rules. The kid took his app to Cydia and made some money. Good for him. Doesn't prevent Apple from implementing the same feature.




Quote:
Originally Posted by now4real954 View Post

I remember this app coming out and I remember the hype and drama that ensued...and at no point do I remember Apple coming forth and saying that the App broke any rules of the App Store and I know I remember the discussion of this commentary from the Apple rep that gave him the bad news back then

so maybe Apple was working on it in the past before this guy brought his app to market...but it was not a working product and they should have allowed him to sell his app on the App Store...

he did the work and didnt break the rules so it should have been ok and maybe this guy would have made enough money to say..."hey I can retire and Apple can have my code"
post #101 of 195
Why when Apple could just reject the application for violating its rules? Even if the app wasn't violating a rule, Apple doesn't have to have a reason for not accepting an application.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kent909 View Post

So last year he submits an app to the store. The employee that takes a look at it and realizes what he is looking at. He jumps up from his chair and runs into Steve Jobs office yelling I've discovered iCloud. Apple immediately formulates the entire concept and announces it one year later. Don't we really think that Apple had this concept in mind prior to his submission? I am thinking that Apple recognized how close he was to what they were doing and rejected it to avoid this situation later. Apple would have been smart to dip into petty cash and buy this student off for say one million.
post #102 of 195
I'm bored.

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post #103 of 195
He was using Private APIs to do this Application Apple was already developing.

End of Story.
post #104 of 195
For starters, MacDailyNews claims that this guy's logo is very similar to the iSync logo Apple began using in 2003. The question is whether some kid who copied Apple can get away with suing Apple for copying him! As for the rejected app, more facts are needed. He is assuming that his app was submitted before Apple started working on a similar concept. Big assumption.
post #105 of 195
It's not hard to imagine that Apple already had this feature in the works for the past couple years and thought this man could help bring more to the table. Unfortunate coincidence.
post #106 of 195
One of my two iphones is jailbroken. I bought his app and it did not work for crap. I emailed the guy NUMEROUS times, got "help ticket numbers" and then he never responded, EVER. So maybe I should legally attack him for putting out a piece of crap that does not work very well, oh wait correction does not work AT ALL.

I sure wasted my money. NO CUSTOMER SUPPORT



I hope apple wipes him all over the carpet
post #107 of 195
"Smaller developers have faced similar situations in the past as Apple has progressively added features, such as the iBooks app and App Store recommendations, to iOS. The issue will likely be as the iOS developer ecosystem continues to grow."
WORD Perfect and Microsoft WORD, anyone?

"An Apple representative contacted Hughes to explain the rejection, saying the app didn't "technically break the rules," though it did "encroach upon the boundaries" of what is allowed in the App Store"
Complete bull. It was rejected for security concerns and use of closed APIs, pure and simple.

"According to him, the App Store representative he spoke with last year told him that the iPhone engineering team had seen his app and "were quite impressed."
DING DING! AND HUGES TAKES HOME THE SUPER-DUPER-EGO PRIZE!

He is so full of bullshit... An app that tricks iOS and iTunes into thinking the device is connected via USB vs an application that actually does a sync over WiFi without a hack, and silently in the background going off information in a user's cloud account - all of this just sounds like an attention seeking teenager getting very pissy without reading into it first. He's just seen the logo and name and went running in guns blazing.

If I see him in person, I'll pimp slap him.

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post #108 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by StangManDan View Post

...jailbroken... ...did not work...

And that's the risk you take. Get over it. It was five dollars.

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post #109 of 195
As with all things related to the news media/blogging community, I am sure a lot of info in this article is false.

That said: This is not the first time Apple has ripped off app ideas from its developer community. That iAd app developed and submitted to the app store (and denied) was later written by Apple. Sherlock was a ripoff of Watson. The Dashoboard was stolen from Konfabulator. I am sure the list goes on and on...
post #110 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofabutt View Post

As with all things related to the news media/blogging community, I am sure a lot of info in this article is false.

That said: This is not the first time Apple has ripped off app ideas from its developer community. That iAd app developed and submitted to the app store (and denied) was later written by Apple. Sherlock was a ripoff of Watson. The Dashoboard was stolen from Konfabulator. I am sure the list goes on and on...

I'd like to bring up my Word Perfect and Microsoft Word argument again.

... at night.

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post #111 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

Where to begin? Perhaps they ain't so sophisticated down in Birmingham, but let's see...

-Kid knows that if syncing a device over WiFi was the job of an app store app, his wouldn't have been the first to the table. Its an OS thing, not an App thing.

-Kid develops a shotty and poorly functioning app. I myself paid $10 for his junk, that never ever once worked. He told me where to go, personally, when I asked for a refund.

-Kid put no thought or creativity into the name, he called it WiFi Sync, which is a description of what it does, not a name. Nothing proprietary about it.

-Did I mention his $%^& never worked?

-Kid obviously doesn't know that the Cydia storefront is illegitimate, and not somewhere where you get credit for your work. Its a public testing ground, and Apple keeps a close eye on it. Apple plucks many, many useful tweaks and features from this place, and uses the idea for a better implementation in the official OS.

-Wifi sync was never one of the features Apple "watched and stole". It was a common sense feature that had been held back for a while...and eventually rolled out as part of the overall iOS 5 catch-up-with-feature-requests release.

That about covers it. Hope this kid saved some of that $500,000 he made. He's going to need every penny of it if he's actually dumb enough to challenge Apple over this.



And thank you for this, end of story.

Okay, I'm enjoying a lot of the comments on this thread, but these are annoying. Just because his app didn't work well for you does not make what Apple allegedly did okay. That's the same rational as saying "I murdered someone because he wasn't functioning well in society." I'm sorry his app didn't work for you, but he still put a lot of hard work in it. Whether or not Apple stole this is up to debate (and a very good one, might I add ), but this developer's work is not in question. Don't be naive.
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post #112 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by StangManDan View Post

One of my two iphones is jailbroken. I bought his app and it did not work for crap. I emailed the guy NUMEROUS times, got "help ticket numbers" and then he never responded, EVER. So maybe I should legally attack him for putting out a piece of crap that does not work very well, oh wait correction does not work AT ALL.

I sure wasted my money. NO CUSTOMER SUPPORT



I hope apple wipes him all over the carpet

I've seen this kind of comment all over the web from people who bought the app from him. He's just not a good developer, or a very nice guy so it's hard to have much sympathy for him even if the facts were on his side (which they so obviously aren't).

The app itself is a sort of lazy, (if somewhat clever) hack and he never even supported it beyond the first release. Now he's pissed off, but he doesn't have a case, so instead of actually suing Apple, he's just whining all over teh Internets looking for sympathy.

Wah! sucky baby.
post #113 of 195
Hey, Apple did explained to him what's wrong with the app and why it was rejected. By selling it in the Cydia store, Apple don't have full obligation to him since Apple never approve this store and it's function for jailbreakers therefore, it is somewhat unrelated.
post #114 of 195
Get over it. Since the iPhone was first available, WiFi sync has been a major request. This is not a new idea to anyone. WiFi Sync is as generic a name as you can get. Even the logo, which superimposes Apples WiFi icon with that of Time Machines both on the menu bar, is generic at best. His arrows are poorly proportioned too. Hes just trying to get publicity for himself

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post #115 of 195
What's with the euphemisms? Appropriating? [R]ipping off? I read articles about this on other sites and most say apple accused of stealing?
post #116 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by eehd View Post

What's with the euphemisms? Appropriating? [R]ipping off? I read articles about this on other sites and most say apple accused of stealing?

Please tell me that was just a very deliberate troll XD

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post #117 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman619 View Post

...that of Time Machine...

That of iSync. Time Machine doesn't have squat to do with syncing or the icon.

Quote:
Hes just trying to get publicity for himself

Agree 100%.

Originally posted by Marvin

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post #118 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairb View Post

Just like the words "app" and "store" have been around for years. Apple puts them together and it is a trademark.

See any double standards here?

Oh come on man, I don't have a dog in either fight, and I'd like to think I come in here with a pretty objective viewpoint, but I just can't read a comment like that and think "hmm.. that's logical".

Maybe it's just my failing 24 year old memory, but I can't think of anything from anyone that was referred to as an "app store", publicly/officially, or even just by users, in the mobile device world - and as I sit here thinking about it, I can't even think of anything in the PC world either.

But let's set that aside and concentrate on the matter at hand..

So we know you (and if I'm being honest I'm really speaking to everyone) wouldn't argue that this kid invented the theory of wirelessly syncing an iPhone, because that would just be idiotic (if I'm being honest, I'd have a hard time believing "wireless syncing" wasn't on the docket since before the iPhone ever hit store shelves). Of course there is one potential reality that could exist, resulting in legitimate "injury" or "loss" (if we're speaking "lawyerese"), but the fact that not a single one of the comments I've read here refers to it, tells me that 99.9% of you people are same people that take every opportunity you get to rail against Apple simply because you don't like something about the company, not because logic or sound reasoning has anything to do with it - the same people that have no idea what Apple is getting at when the company points out that the Galaxy S is the inbred cousin of the iPhone 3G, and at the end of the day, the same people that destroy any chance of these "forums" becoming a place for intelligent discussion.

The one factor I'm referring to, and the one factor that anybody should even be discussing, is whether or not any of the actual code from the supposed "stolen app" exists in iOS 5. That's it. Because no one with a sane mind would ever conceive of arguing that the kid invented the idea of wirelessly syncing an iPhone, but on the other hand, if that copied code exists, none of that even matters because Apple is then morally, but more importantly (in court), legally, bound to pay the kid for his work.
post #119 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by utahnguy View Post

Oh come on man, I don't have a dog in either fight, and I'd like to think I come in here with a pretty objective viewpoint, but I just can't read a comment like that and think "hmm.. that's logical".

Maybe it's just my failing 24 year old memory, but I can't think of anything from anyone that was referred to as an "app store", publicly/officially, or even just by users, in the mobile device world - and as I sit here thinking about it, I can't even think of anything in the PC world either.

But let's set that aside and concentrate on the matter at hand..

So we know you (and if I'm being honest I'm really speaking to everyone) wouldn't argue that this kid invented the theory of wirelessly syncing an iPhone, because that would just be idiotic (if I'm being honest, I'd have a hard time believing "wireless syncing" wasn't on the docket since before the iPhone ever hit store shelves). Of course there is one potential reality that could exist, resulting in legitimate "injury" or "loss" (if we're speaking "lawyerese"), but the fact that not a single one of the comments I've read here refers to it, tells me that 99.9% of you people are same people that take every opportunity you get to rail against Apple simply because you don't like something about the company, not because logic or sound reasoning has anything to do with it - the same people that have no idea what Apple is getting at when the company points out that the Galaxy S is the inbred cousin of the iPhone 3G, and at the end of the day, the same people that destroy any chance of these "forums" becoming a place for intelligent discussion.

The one factor I'm referring to, and the one factor that anybody should even be discussing, is whether or not any of the actual code from the supposed "stolen app" exists in iOS 5. That's it. Because no one with a sane mind would ever conceive of arguing that the kid invented the idea of wirelessly syncing an iPhone, but on the other hand, if that copied code exists, none of that even matters because Apple is then morally, but more importantly (in court), legally, bound to pay the kid for his work.

Precisely
post #120 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anawrahta View Post

Yeah but did you actually go out and make a colour Mac classic? Of course not. No neural capacity for such a task.

That was his point. That he didn't make one and just having the idea for one doesn't give him any ownership claim. Perhaps you don't have neural capacity for understanding what he wrote.
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