or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Athiests know there is a God
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Athiests know there is a God

post #1 of 98
Thread Starter 
With all of the raving atheists who make it their purpose in life to hate believers and God something has become very clear to see if you peel up a corner of the rug and look beyond the rhetoric.

Atheists (claim) and act like there is no God. This is really their immature and rebellious way of taking a swipe at God because they have been convinced that they don't like who God is so they are going to throw a temper tantrum and give God the finger. Saying there is no God is their way of throwing a fit. These Atheists know there is a God in fact and they Hate (based on misunderstanding) this God and those who love and proclaim God.

Look at their behavior and tell me this is not so.

Christopher Hitchens is just seeping with a hatred towards the God and the faithful of this God that he pretends he does not believe exists.

If you don't believe in God you would not act as if you Hate this God that you say does not exist. It must be hard to hate something that "does not exist" wouldn't you think?

This is because Atheists know God does exist and they hate God and God's children.

They really hate themselves but that is another matter all together. They want everyone else to become infected with their hate as well.

Sorry,, No thanks from me.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #2 of 98
This will not end well.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #3 of 98
He does not hate God, he hates Christians, because they are judgmental, and try to force their beliefs on other people. They try to change school curriculum, try to kill science funding, oppress gay people. There is really no upside to Christianity.

If they minded their own business and did not try to control all non-Christians, nobody would hate them.

Fellowship - imagine if you lived in a Muslim theocracy, and you hated all the things that they made you do. For example, if your wife was not allowed out of the house without a Burkah - would the resentment you felt be proof that God exists? No - it would just be you hating the overlords.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #4 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

He does not hate God, he hates Christians, because they are judgmental, and try to force their beliefs on other people. They try to change school curriculum, try to kill science funding, oppress gay people. There is really no upside to Christianity.

If they minded their own business and did not try to control all non-Christians, nobody would hate them.

Fellowship - imagine if you lived in a Muslim theocracy, and you hated all the things that they made you do. For example, if your wife was not allowed out of the house without a Burkah - would the resentment you felt be proof that God exists? No - it would just be you hating the overlords.

You make it sound as if autocratic governments only spring from religious mindsets when quite the opposite is true.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #5 of 98
What about us non-raving atheists?


God is currently smoting Hitchens anyway. He'll be dead soon enough.
post #6 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

You make it sound as if autocratic governments only spring from religious mindsets when quite the opposite is true.

Prove it. What government situation caused this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Great_Awakening

Are you suggesting that the US is more autocratic than Canada? Because religion in Canada is very weak - my rural town had only about 40-50 church goers out of 1000 residents.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #7 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Prove it. What government situation caused this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Great_Awakening

Are you suggesting that the US is more autocratic than Canada? Because religion in Canada is very weak - my rural town had only about 40-50 church goers out of 1000 residents.

I think the point is that autocratic governments like soviet union, China, Cuba, Venezuela ... sprung from a non-religeous base.
post #8 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

This will not end well.

No, but it will be fun. Time for popcorn again!


Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

He does not hate God, he hates Christians,

Eh...probably both.


Quote:
because they are judgmental assholes for the most part, trying to force their beliefs on other people.

Most don't. In fact, no true Christians forces his or her beliefs on others. Some evangelize, though I certainly don't.

Quote:
They try to change school curriculum,

Very few do that.

Quote:

try to kill science funding,

Let me guess...stem cells? I can only assume this is what you mean. If this is what you think, I don't believe you understand many Christians' position, the issue or the policy very well.

Quote:


oppress gay people.


Let me guess again...gay marriage? So you're saying that not changing the millennia-old definition of marriage constitutes "oppression?"

Quote:


There is really no upside to Christianity, it sucks.

There is a huge upside. Christian groups do much good for the world, as do many churches.

Quote:

If they minded their own business and did not try to control all non-Christians, nobody would hate them.

Pardon me, but I call BS. Christians would be attacked by non-Christians no matter what. Also, who are they trying to control? Which Christians?

The problem, e#, is generally not Christians. In many cases the problem is atheists who think all religious references should be banned from public life. They despise Christianity and will attack Christians just because they believe differently.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #9 of 98
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

This will not end well.

I just thought it would make for good fun. I don't really expect anything profound to come from it.

I thought I would be BR for a day but instead of of just throwing accusations around in any random thread that had nothing to do with it I started a new thread at least.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #10 of 98
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

No, but it will be fun. Time for popcorn again!




Eh...probably both.




Most don't. In fact, no true Christians forces his or her beliefs on others. Some evangelize, though I certainly don't.



Very few do that.



Let me guess...stem cells? I can only assume this is what you mean. If this is what you think, I don't believe you understand many Christians' position, the issue or the policy very well.




Let me guess again...gay marriage? So you're saying that not changing the millennia-old definition of marriage constitutes "oppression?"



There is a huge upside. Christian groups do much good for the world, as do many churches.



Pardon me, but I call BS. Christians would be attacked by non-Christians no matter what. Also, who are they trying to control? Which Christians?

The problem, e#, is generally not Christians. In many cases the problem is atheists who think all religious references should be banned from public life. They despise Christianity and will attack Christians just because they believe differently.

Well stated reply SDW2001 I agree with what you said.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #11 of 98
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

He does not hate God, he hates Christians, because they are judgmental, and

Then why is the name of his book "God is not Great" and not something more like "Christians are not great"?

And you say because (Christians) are "judgemental"

May I point you to some Atheists and their "judgemental" behaviour? If you don't see it then you are simply choosing to pick and choose your reality.

So save your judgemental accusation. We are all judgemental but Jesus taught us not to be.

Now what about that teaching do you disaree with?

As per your arguments about living in a theocratic society under islamic laws I agree completely this is oppressive.

Christian belief is not one of oppression. It is one of love. So this does not apply. If anything our society has become more decayed and liberalized as we move away from the more Christian-centic former ways. So don't harp about Christians trying to change what is taught in schools. I think they are asking for intelligent design to be discussed as a theory as well as the theory of evolution. But those who worship at the alter of evolution don't want any competition.

You liberal fundamentalists are the true tyrants.

Jesus is not a tyrant.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #12 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

Then why is the name of his book "God is not Great" and not something more like "Christians are not great"?

You never read the book did you? Glancing at the title is not a substitute.

Jesus was not a tyrant, but modern day Christians are nothing like Jesus.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #13 of 98
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post




Jesus was not a tyrant, but modern day Christians are nothing like Jesus.

It is hard to be like Jesus but it is worth a try. Unless of course you hate Jesus and those who love him.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #14 of 98
Thread Starter 
Jesus is our redeemer. If you read through the Bible you see foretastes and parables which give us a preview and a window into the love of our Lord. Boaz had a certain respect for Ruth that in those days was supreme and uncommon. Read the account of Ruth and you see a picture of how Jesus is our Boaz.


Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #15 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

It is hard to be like Jesus but it is worth a try. Unless of course you hate Jesus and those who love him.

Fellows

I don't hate Jesus, I hate modern Christianity - assuming that the two are intertwined is the logical flaw in all your posts on this thread.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #16 of 98
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I don't hate Jesus, I hate modern Christianity - assuming that the two are intertwined is the logical flaw in all your posts on this thread.

I just want you to know who you are talking to here. I have been somewhat critical of some of the modern "Church" tactics and methods. I and my wife have moved Churches from time to time due to some disheartening things which took place. Man screws up from time to time but there is good news. It is ok that we screw up. We can learn from our mistakes. We can allow our lives to be restored and we can serve our neighbors both close to come and far off places.

AND we can love God and worship Him as well. We live in a free society where this is possible.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #17 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I don't hate Jesus, I hate modern Christianity - assuming that the two are intertwined is the logical flaw in all your posts on this thread.

I don't think you have any clue what "modern Christianity" entails. You hate a caricature of it.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #18 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

Then why is the name of his book "God is not Great" and not something more like "Christians are not great"?



Quote:

And you say because (Christians) are "judgemental"

May I point you to some Atheists and their "judgemental" behaviour? If you don't see it then you are simply choosing to pick and choose your reality.

Exactly. Most Atheists (from my experience) don't "leave Christians alone" at all. I'm friends with one on Facebook. He posts some ridiculous link from some site like "The Friendly Atheist" and then I call him on some of the content. He flips and goes into an anti-Christian rant, telling me he can post whatever he wants on his page, etc. And Christians are the judgmental ones?

Quote:

So save your judgemental accusation. We are all judgemental but Jesus taught us not to be.

Now what about that teaching do you disaree with?

Good luck getting an answer of any kind to that question.

Quote:

As per your arguments about living in a theocratic society under islamic laws I agree completely this is oppressive.

Christian belief is not one of oppression. It is one of love. So this does not apply. If anything our society has become more decayed and liberalized as we move away from the more Christian-centic former ways. So don't harp about Christians trying to change what is taught in schools. I think they are asking for intelligent design to be discussed as a theory as well as the theory of evolution. But those who worship at the alter of evolution don't want any competition.

You liberal fundamentalists are the true tyrants.

Jesus is not a tyrant.

Fellows

I would be for at least a mention of Intelligent Design as an alternative theory. The problem here, though, is that Creationists have somewhat hijacked the meaning of the term and have used it to try and push their agenda into schools. My understanding of Intelligent Design as it is supposed to be is that evolution cannot explain all, and that Intelligent Design proposes that the development of life was guided. The issue with discussing it in-depth is that it cannot be scientifically proven.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #19 of 98
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I don't hate Jesus, I hate modern Christianity

In my youth I had been to several different denominations of Churches. Episcopal in the beginning then Luthern later on to others. I don't care so much for the denominations. I would however show you a link to a Church that I attended as a younger person in my home town.

http://www.lwlc.com/

Under the worship tab go to "sermon videos" and watch some sometime when you have time.

Tell me what this pastor is teaching that you hate? I say this because many Christians don't fit the stereotype that you may have in your mind. I emplore you to watch a sermon or two by this Pastor Eibel and tell me your findings.

I think windows media is the streaming file type.

Watch it and see the gentle nature of this pastor. See how he teaches the heart of God. Watch how he teaches out of the Bible.

It is hardly hate-worthy. WATCH IT and see...

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #20 of 98
This sums up my viewpoint, I think, better than I could myself:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/phil-z..._b_830237.html
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #21 of 98
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

This sums up my viewpoint, I think, better than I could myself:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/phil-z..._b_830237.html

There are many Christians who make Christians look bad. But this is no reason to give up the passion for what Jesus taught us. Don't allow negative views of failed mankind to tarnish your soul.

Live for the living God.

Watch this and let me know what there is to hate.

http://www.lwlc.com/sermon_052911E.wmv

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #22 of 98
Thread Starter 
In that Huff piece about evangelicals I could reply the following:

I do associate with and help the poor directly and inderectly. I talk to a homeless man named tony on a weekly basis and I encourage him. He used to be a truck driver but fell out of employment and had some issues to deal with. I know people who have flat out said he is a piece of trash but I disagree with that hateful assessment and I enjoy talking with him. I do not tell him about Jesus or anything like that as he is actually a Christian himself and he caries his Bible with him. He is a wonderful person when you allow yourself to get to know him. He has some issues to work out per employment but I have encouraged him and he has even traveled by bus out of state even to go on Job interviews. Some of my co-workers can't believe I talk with him because they think he is "garbage" as some have flat out said of him.

I do not support the death penalty but I do support life in prison.

I do not support MANY wars.

I do believe people are people and not necessarily lazy if they are on welfare or without employment. I love people. I don't want to judge them.

I have helped people in hard times before. Once I gave a guy $400 to pay a past due bill and I told him not to worry about paying me back.

I am a decent person Christian or not.

But this is not the point. The problem with the huff post piece is that it draws attention to personal rightiousness or lack thereof.

I am not impressed with man's rightiousness. I am interested in the teachings of my Lord and saviour.

When I list the things above about me it is not my goal to brag about me. I don't like self-rightiouness and for good reason.

self-rightiouness is folly. God's rightiousness is what matters.

Man can argue all day long about who has the greater morals etc.

I care more about the teachings of Jesus.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #23 of 98
I can't watch videos at work, but really it does not matter what the video contains - since it is not the entirety of Christianity. You can't go from a single example to the whole - if the apple is mostly rotten, it does not matter than there is a small piece that is not.

The part of Christianity that people hate is not that one piece, it is the rest - and them hating it is not proof that God exists (as per your OP).
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #24 of 98
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I can't watch videos at work, but really it does not matter what the video contains - since it is not the entirety of Christianity. You can't go from a single example to the whole - if the apple is mostly rotten, it does not matter than there is a small piece that is not.

The part of Christianity that people hate is not that one piece, it is the rest - and them hating it is not proof that God exists (as per your OP).

What the world needs is not condemnation and ridicule. The world needs people to love each other. When you decide to hate all of christianity you do nothing to help it. You take the lazy way out I would argue.

Anybody can call a homeless man a piece of garbage. But this does not mean this is the case. The case may be that we ALL need encouragement at times in our lives.

The last thing I want to do is wash my hands of helping my neighbor and then ridiculing him because he reads his Bible.

But this is what many lofty (in their heads anyway) liberals do.

There is more to life than hating Christians.

This is why I can't stand Ayn Rand and her Objectivism. She thinks everyone should sink or swim on their own. She thinks that people should not help their neighbor.

She is so selfish that it hurts. But that is HER morality. Not God's mind you.

God's trumps hers and it trumps mine and it trumps yours.

God's morality is the only morality that really matters as we humans are far from perfect.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #25 of 98

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #26 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

This sums up my viewpoint, I think, better than I could myself:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/phil-z..._b_830237.html

That pretty much sums up the ignorance of non-Christians.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #27 of 98
By the way, anyone see a problem with this?





Seriously, let me address that article more in-depth.

Quote:
Evangelicals are the most supportive of the death penalty, draconian sentencing, punitive punishment over rehabilitation, and the governmental use of torture.

There is a lot of debate here. "Eye for an eye" also applies. And many Christians do not support the death penalty. As for "torture," the author is clearly showing his bias here. He cannot comprehend that many people don't believe water boarding and changing temperature constitute torture.

Quote:
And yet Evangelicals are the group of Americans most supportive of easy-access weaponry, little-to-no regulation of handgun and semi-automatic gun ownership, not to mention the violent military invasion of various countries around the world.

What does access to weaponry have to do with anything, especially if said weapons are for defenseless purposes? What if the war is to liberate a nation? Does the author think that we shouldn't have gone to war with Nazi Germany? That's the logic he's using.

Quote:
Jesus was very clear that the pursuit of wealth was inimical to the Kingdom of God, that the rich are to be condemned,

No, he wasn't.

Quote:
and that to be a follower of Him means to give one's money to the poor.

All of one's money?

Quote:
And yet Evangelicals are the most supportive of corporate greed

They are? Does he support that?

Quote:
and capitalistic excess,

What does that mean and who gets to decide what is excessive?

Quote:
and they are the most opposed to institutional help for the nation's poor -- especially poor children.

What a slime ball! Ewww! He provides no support for this, but let's assume it's true. They oppose "institutional" help (read: government) because they believe religious institutions and private entities can do it better. They believe that modern welfare programs destroy one's dignity and incentive to work. And they are right.

Quote:
They hate anything that smacks of "socialism," even though that is essentially what their Savior preached.

Wait..he preached that the government should do all and that we should be taxed to death?

[quote]They despise food stamp programs, subsidies for schools, hospitals, job training -- anything that might dare to help out those in need. [/qupte]

Uh...OK. Show of hands...who despises food stamps? School funding? Hospitals? Job training? What the HELL is this guy talking about? He then proceeds to give us his version of "what happened" to "liberal" Christianity.

Pardon the pun, but GOOD LORD.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #28 of 98
Jesus was pretty pissed off that the Romans didn't provide abortion services to the poor.
post #29 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Jesus was pretty pissed off that the Romans didn't provide abortion services to the poor.



Post of the year. I may need to make that my new sig.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #30 of 98
SDW - do you seriously think that Jesus was in favor of an "eye for an eye"? Being a Christian means you are supposed to reject some of the evil parts of the old testament, as Jesus did.

If you believe in an eye for an eye you are not a Christian, you are an orthodox Jew.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #31 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

SDW - do you seriously think that Jesus was in favor of an "eye for an eye"? Being a Christian means you are supposed to reject some of the evil parts of the old testament, as Jesus did.

It's possible your interpretation and theology is a bit askew here.

What, specifically, do you mean by "the evil parts of the old testament" and in what specific ways did Jesus reject these?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #32 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

It's possible your interpretation and theology is a bit askew here.

What, specifically, do you mean by "the evil parts of the old testament" and in what specific ways did Jesus reject these?

Here is an example: Do you think Jesus would be in favor of stoning adulterers. I think it is pretty clear cut - many (if not most) of the old testament rules are anti-Christian.

SDW - I think you need to go back and read what Jesus actually "said" (in quotes because I believe he never existed)

"If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #33 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Here is an example: Do you think Jesus would be in favor of stoning adulterers. I think it is pretty clear cut - many (if not most) of the old testament rules are anti-Christian.

This is an interesting example. Do you know what Jesus was doing with the woman caught in adultery (and with the people ready to stone her)?


Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

SDW - I think you need to go back and read what Jesus actually "said" (in quotes because I believe he never existed)

You believe Jesus never existed?


Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

"If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

It is important for Christians (and probably non-Christians also) to understand and interpret scripture in context. You have quoted this passage out of context and let it stand on its own. Doing so very often misleads.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #34 of 98
The stoning of the woman was a trap set for Jesus, and he got out of it by saying "let he without sin throw the first stone". Not sure what you were fishing for here, Jesus explicitly rejected the punishment set down by Moses.

I believe that Jesus is a conglomeration of previous mythological figures, like Horus and others - just like Moses is (Gilgamesh, etc).

Its not like the teachings of Jesus are particularly hard to understand, modern Christians just don't follow them.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #35 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

SDW - do you seriously think that Jesus was in favor of an "eye for an eye"? Being a Christian means you are supposed to reject some of the evil parts of the old testament, as Jesus did.

If you believe in an eye for an eye you are not a Christian, you are an orthodox Jew.




Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

It's possible your interpretation and theology is a bit askew here.

What, specifically, do you mean by "the evil parts of the old testament" and in what specific ways did Jesus reject these?

<makes popcorn>

Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Here is an example: Do you think Jesus would be in favor of stoning adulterers. I think it is pretty clear cut - many (if not most) of the old testament rules are anti-Christian.

SDW - I think you need to go back and read what Jesus actually "said" (in quotes because I believe he never existed)

"If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

You believe he never existed, but you're telling me about the principles of Christianity. WTF?


Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

The stoning of the woman was a trap set for Jesus, and he got out of it by saying "let he without sin throw the first stone". Not sure what you were fishing for here, Jesus explicitly rejected the punishment set down by Moses.

I believe that Jesus is a conglomeration of previous mythological figures, like Horus and others - just like Moses is (Gilgamesh, etc).

Its not like the teachings of Jesus are particularly hard to understand, modern Christians just don't follow them.

In one breath you tell the "true" tale of the stoning, yet in the next you again claim he didn't exist. Either way, the article is crap. It's filled with unsupported claims, half-truths outright lies, and inflammatory rhetoric. Really, I love when non-Christians try to tell Christians about being Christians. It's positively comical.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #36 of 98
Just because I think that Jesus is imaginary does not mean that I can't understand what he "said", or even that I think what he "said" is a bad idea. You are avoiding my points because you have no answers.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #37 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Just because I think that Jesus is imaginary does not mean that I can't understand what he "said", or even that I think what he "said" is a bad idea. You are avoiding my points because you have no answers.

I'm not responding because your entire argument is intellectually dishonest. You don't believe He existed, yet you can claim that you have a full understanding of what he said--and the interpretation of the same? I mean really...you've got to be kidding. You also linked to that bogus and moronic article. So, two strikes for you. Care to try for a third?
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #38 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

The stoning of the woman was a trap set for Jesus, and he got out of it by saying "let he without sin throw the first stone". Not sure what you were fishing for here, Jesus explicitly rejected the punishment set down by Moses.

I'm not "fishing" for anything.

Actually the interesting thing is that he didn't explicitly reject the punishment. Instead he raised the standard by which one can execute the punishment. He basically said, "Sure. Go ahead. One catch though: Only the one without sin is allowed to do this." One must wonder why he did it this way rather than explicitly rejecting the law.


Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I believe that Jesus is a conglomeration of previous mythological figures, like Horus and others - just like Moses is (Gilgamesh, etc).

Okay.


Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Its not like the teachings of Jesus are particularly hard to understand, some modern Christians just don't follow them.

Fixed that for you.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #39 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

One must wonder why he did it this way rather than explicitly rejecting the law.

He did it as a political maneuver. It was a trap set for him and he got out of it, the way it was set up, they thought he would either have to agree to the stoning (which would invalidate his teaching), or go against the law (where he could be punished).

Quote:
Fixed that for you.

fair enough.

SDW - if you believe that nobody that disagrees with you can understand scripture, then it must be very easy to get agreement over it. The opinions of anyone else are invalid because they disagree with you.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #40 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

With all of the raving atheists who make it their purpose in life to hate believers and God something has become very clear to see if you peel up a corner of the rug and look beyond the rhetoric.

Atheists (claim) and act like there is no God. This is really their immature and rebellious way of taking a swipe at God because they have been convinced that they don't like who God is so they are going to throw a temper tantrum and give God the finger. Saying there is no God is their way of throwing a fit. These Atheists know there is a God in fact and they Hate (based on misunderstanding) this God and those who love and proclaim God.

Look at their behavior and tell me this is not so.

Christopher Hitchens is just seeping with a hatred towards the God and the faithful of this God that he pretends he does not believe exists.

If you don't believe in God you would not act as if you Hate this God that you say does not exist. It must be hard to hate something that "does not exist" wouldn't you think?

This is because Atheists know God does exist and they hate God and God's children.

They really hate themselves but that is another matter all together. They want everyone else to become infected with their hate as well.

Sorry,, No thanks from me.

Fellows

Fellowship, what's with the sudden outburst of hatred towards those who don't quite see existence in the same way as you, i.e. those who believe in (a) deity?

Atheists don't know that there is no God, any more than believers know that there is a God. Whatever God is. Both groups resort to faith, in the absence of knowledge.

Nobody KNOWS if the human (or animal) has a "soul". Anyway, what *is* the soul? Is it a quantifiable entity? Perhaps science has not advanced far enough for us to determine what the human soul is, that is, if it exists.. which we do not know (!).

Nobody KNOWS what happens after we die, so whether we "go to Heaven", or "reincarnate" or merely decay into organic material, helped along by bacteria (or larger creatures to munch upon), is a huge amount of valuable life/time wasted in useless, purposeless, speculation.

So why do we argue so much about the perennial unknowable? Perhaps because certain parties get wealthy from the fallout? Whoever was it who said "Religion is a magical device to transform unanswerable questions into unquestionable answers"... BRAVO!!!!

How about, as Rodney King famously interated some years back, that we "just get along"? I am sure Jesus, whoever he was, would approve of that.

**

Hitchens is not the typical atheist by any stretch. I am not an atheist myself, but I know quite a lot of self-described atheists, and their moral and ethical standards are definitely not inferior to those of religious people I know. In fact, I would say that on average (if average is the appropriate term), the atheists I know are on the whole people with much integrity, and they tend not to push their faith down others' throats.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Athiests know there is a God