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Rumor: Final Cut Pro X on sale, third-party Thunderbolt products unveiled next week

post #1 of 33
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Apple may appeal to its high-end video production customers next week with the release of Final Cut Pro X on the Mac App Store, as well as the announcement of new third-party products that will take advantage of the high-speed Thunderbolt port found on new Macs, according to a new rumor.

The details came on Tuesday from Macotakara, which was told by sources that Apple will begin to sell Final Cut Pro X on the Mac App Store next week. That would come as no surprise, as Apple said earlier this year that the $299, 64-bit software will arrive in June.

What would be new, though, are products that take advantage of the high-speed Thunderbolt port. Sources also reportedly said that new Thunderbolt products from third-party partners will be announced when Final Cut Pro X goes on sale.

Last week, AppleInsider was first to report on images that claim to show off Final Cut Pro X, as well as the unannounced Motion 5 software from Apple, and rumors of a new version of Color. The last update to Final Cut Studio was released in July of 2009.

More images claimed to be of Final Cut Pro X appeared online on Sunday. The abundance of new material related to the upcoming software update suggests it is being openly tested before its impending release.



Apple offered a sneak peak of Final Cut Pro X in April to the National Association of Broadcasters conference in Las Vegas. There, the company touted the new release as being "as revolutionary as the first version of Final Cut Pro."

Final Cut Pro X is set to include support for all processing cores, as well as the high-definition 4K resolution. It will also allow editing during import, scalable rendering, a resolution-independent playback system, fully color-managed Final Cut based on colorsync, people and shot detection, and audio clean-up.



But since the official unveiling of Final Cut Pro X at the FCP User Group Supermeet at the NAB conference, Apple has not offered any new details. It also made no mention of any other Final Cut Studio applications other than Final Cut Pro.

Apple unveiled the high-speed Thunderbolt port, co-developed with Intel, on its new MacBook Pros in February. Since then, Thunderbolt has also been added to updated iMacs, and is expected to arrive on the rest of the company's Mac lineup this year.

Thunderbolt pairs Intel's PCI Express interconnect with DisplayPort on the same connector, offering transfer speeds of up to 10Gbps. That's twice as fast as the 5Gbps offered by USB 3.0, and 20 times faster than the 480Mbps with USB 2.0.
post #2 of 33
I have a feeling that some of the people who are most vocal about demanding Thunderbolt hubs that will include displayport, firewire 400/800, USB 1/2/3 and other connections all in the same unit are going to be a tad upset when they see the price of those things. That's just a guess on my part.
post #3 of 33
I will definitely be in the market for large, fast HDD storage.

I currently use 24 TB of external disk drives:

-- 2 1TB Drives
-- 11 2 TB Drives

I have had some of these drives since 2003 and all run well.

They are all LaCie drives.

The one problem I have had is with the LaCie external power supplies (bricks)

Currently, I have 2 working power supplies for 13 drives. LaCie has indicated that they will replace 5 power bricks free of charge (units under warranty). I will need to buy replacements for the others @ $35 each.

The LaCie disks shown in the Thunderbolt video appear similar to my current LaCie drives. It is not shown, but it appears that the TB drives will use an external PS brick -- similar to the one that I have had bad experiences.


Normally, I would not bring this up in a public forum -- but I am considering a major upgrade/purchase of HDDs.

I would like to hear any recommendations from others.

Soccer season is about to start and I burn through GB of HDD storage at the wink of an eye.

TIA

Dick
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post #4 of 33
Speaking of....

I was on the hunt last night for the Promise Pegasus R4 thunderbolt RAID that was announced a few months back to go along with my new iMac that just arrived yesterday.... Promise's site sucks and they offer no information on where to buy this or what it costs to buy it.. all their vendors' sites suck too. So I emailed their support/sales people and I heard back from him this morning. The email said

Quote:
Thank you for your email. The R4, with either 1 or 2 TB SATA drives can now be ordered at the Apple web store (store.apple.com)

Nice reply and all... but a search for this item still turns up nothing at all. So maybe this means that they're finally on sale but just haven't propagated through Apple's store system yet or something. But they need to come on out with this stuff... the market for people who want to buy FCPX and thunderbolt stuff isn't really the market that should be treaded with shrouds of secrecy like the iPod/iPhone market. At the very least they should have a price, an availability date, and where we can buy.
post #5 of 33
That HDD. transfer (and read/write) rate is super quick! Way better than my Crucial C300 SATA6 SSD.
post #6 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhReallyNow View Post

Speaking of....

I was on the hunt last night for the Promise Pegasus R4 thunderbolt RAID that was announced a few months back to go along with my new iMac that just arrived yesterday.... Promise's site sucks and they offer no information on where to buy this or what it costs to buy it.. all their vendors' sites suck too. So I emailed their support/sales people and I heard back from him this morning.

Hopefully these guys will have a Thunderbolt product soon.

http://www.activestorage.com/products.php

Active has a superior product and superior support. Plus, the company was founded by the guy who designed the original Xserve. Very Mac centric company and products. There is something about Promise that has always seemed a little off.
post #7 of 33
I understand that Thunderbolt is a lot faster than other formats, but where are the bottleneck in all this?

HDs are still 7200 RPM or SSD's... So they can Read/Write no faster than before, and same with Processors on Macs... My favorite analogy for that is a car that is speeding so it can start waiting at the red light sooner!

I remember reading somewhere that the most obvious difference with Thunderbolt will be when Data is being copied from one Thunderbolt HD to another Thunderbolt HD... Otherwise Read/Write from to Thunderbolt HD from Mac is no faster, or not much faster...

So, where are the bottleneck in all this? Hope someone can clearly explain this, and include examples!

Thanks in advance!

I'll be Upgrading soon, and I'd love to see Thunderbolt HDs! OWC http://www.macsales.com is my favorite HD vendor! It be also nice to see SSD Prices drop quicker everywhere!

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post #8 of 33
Yes Lacie power bricks are very poorly made. Lacie will confirm this by the fact they they are ALWAYS back ordered when you try to order a power supply because people constantly need new ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I will definitely be in the market for large, fast HDD storage.

I currently use 24 TB of external disk drives:

-- 2 1TB Drives
-- 11 2 TB Drives

I have had some of these drives since 2003 and all run well.

They are all LaCie drives.

The one problem I have had is with the LaCie external power supplies (bricks)

Currently, I have 2 working power supplies for 13 drives. LaCie has indicated that they will replace 5 power bricks free of charge (units under warranty). I will need to buy replacements for the others @ $35 each.

The LaCie disks shown in the Thunderbolt video appear similar to my current LaCie drives. It is not shown, but it appears that the TB drives will use an external PS brick -- similar to the one that I have had bad experiences.


Normally, I would not bring this up in a public forum -- but I am considering a major upgrade/purchase of HDDs.

I would like to hear any recommendations from others.

Soccer season is about to start and I burn through GB of HDD storage at the wink of an eye.

TIA

Dick
post #9 of 33
The first Thunderbolt RAID 4TB system (Pegasus) is listed in the Apple Store for $999, which is not that much more than other 4TB RAID systems. The difference in speed will more than make up for any extra cost, especially for busy people.

La Cie also has a portable Thunderbolt disk coming out that they are pitching at reporters.

This is going to be big and the people who really need it and will really benefit from it will not gripe about any slightly higher entry cost.

The last time I added a new backup drive it took nearly 3 hours to transfer stuff over FW 800. Thunderbolt will bring this down to under 20 minutes. Two and a half hours that I could be working, or having a beer across town because I don't need to watch the file transfer. I'm sold and have asked my local shop to order a Pegasus system as soon as they can.

 

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post #10 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by macologist View Post

I understand that Thunderbolt is a lot faster than other formats, but where are the bottleneck in all this?

HDs are still 7200 RPM or SSD's... So they can Read/Write no faster than before, and same with Processors on Macs... My favorite analogy for that is a car that is speeding so it can start waiting at the red light sooner!

You are assuming people are using single drives, which is really not the case for high performance needs. We have 60TB over six RAIDS. Striped and configured correctly, they can get an aggregate of about 800MB/sec. Over our 4Gb SAN, we are lucky to get 400MB/sec sustained DR. Since the only bridge to Fibre at this point is still only 4Gb, our bottleneck will still be our switch unless and until we move to 8Gb - at which time I hope full 10Gb support will be available on TB. So the real answer to your question is that there are many bottlenecks in practice. Thunderbolt handles only one among them, but at least it's handled. It will also be a lot cheaper than our ATTO fibre cards. I'll be waiting to see how people's XSAN performance will be affected by TB being added in the mix.
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post #11 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by macologist View Post

I understand that Thunderbolt is a lot faster than other formats, but where are the bottleneck in all this?

HDs are still 7200 RPM or SSD's... So they can Read/Write no faster than before, and same with Processors on Macs... My favorite analogy for that is a car that is speeding so it can start waiting at the red light sooner!

I remember reading somewhere that the most obvious difference with Thunderbolt will be when Data is being copied from one Thunderbolt HD to another Thunderbolt HD... Otherwise Read/Write from to Thunderbolt HD from Mac is no faster, or not much faster...

So, where are the bottleneck in all this? Hope someone can clearly explain this, and include examples!

Thanks in advance!!

Max read/write speeds of hard drives are definitely a bottleneck, which is where RAID technology comes in. Not sure if you know how RAID works or not, but just in case you don't, I'll quickly explain:

By combining multiple hard drives into one case and treating them as one drive (let's use a four-drive RAID as an example) the RAID splits the files up into four parts and copies one part to each drive simultaneously, making the overall file transfer speed up to four times faster (theoretically).

So you're correct in that Thunderbolt will make no speed difference if you were to buy a single drive with a Thunderbolt port, other than the drive-to-drive transfer differences you mentioned; but it opens up a huge potential for faster transfer speeds of RAID systems, if you're able to spend the big dollars for one of those. As the previous poster mentioned, for businesses that use that level of storage, these types of transfer speed differences will pay off very quickly in work hours saved.
post #12 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by macologist View Post

So, where are the bottleneck in all this? Hope someone can clearly explain this, and include examples!

The fastest external port that comes on a Mac is FW800. Most high performance hard drives, not to mention SSD drives, can transfer data faster than what the FW800 will allow in real world applications.

The other option, estata, only is available through third party add-ons. Which means you have to deal with potential driver problems.

Having Thunderbolt ports built-in should make for a more stable, high performance connection that will be available to laptops, iMacs, and Mac Pros without the need for a 3rd party device (if one is even available.)

On the subject of Final Cut and Thunderbolt add-ons, maybe Apple will take this opportunity to announce updated Mac Pros and Airs with Thunderbolt ports? Fingers crossed.

-kpluck

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post #13 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by macologist View Post

...I remember reading somewhere that the most obvious difference with Thunderbolt will be when Data is being copied from one Thunderbolt HD to another Thunderbolt HD... Otherwise Read/Write from to Thunderbolt HD from Mac is no faster, or not much faster...

Well, if nothing else, it'll let an external drive perform as well as an internal one. Not something you can claim with USB 2.0 or FW800.
post #14 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

On the subject of Final Cut and Thunderbolt add-ons, maybe Apple will take this opportunity to announce updated Mac Pros and Airs with Thunderbolt ports? Fingers crossed.

-kpluck

I sure hope so. I've been sitting on the fence waiting for the iMac refresh. Now that they're here, I'm still waiting to see what the system requirements will be for FCP-X. Once I know that, the only missing piece of info will be what the specs of refreshed Mac Pros will be. As you said, maybe we'll get lucky and Apple will refresh the Mac Pros when FCP-X gets released. Then, finally, I'll be ready to upgrade.
post #15 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanthohappy View Post

So you're correct in that Thunderbolt will make no speed difference if you were to buy a single drive with a Thunderbolt port, other than the drive-to-drive transfer differences you mentioned; but it opens up a huge potential for faster transfer speeds of RAID systems, if you're able to spend the big dollars for one of those.

There's another option. Something like an MBA with a small SSD might have enough storage for travel, but not enough to store all your files, etc. It would be possible to have an SSD and an external single disk Thunderbolt drive - and get essentially the same performance as if you had an internal drive for the 'big' stuff, while still running the OS and apps at SSD speeds.

It will be inconvenient because you have an extra drive, but might be a solution for some people.
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post #16 of 33
Thx for sharing my video of the supermeet Apple FCPX Sneak Peek
if you want there is the 2nd part here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAXL7L9fToQ
post #17 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Currently, I have 2 working power supplies for 13 drives. LaCie has indicated that they will replace 5 power bricks free of charge (units under warranty). I will need to buy replacements for the others @ $35 each.

That's quite a failure rate. You should be able to get the bricks cheaper online e.g:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LaCie-12Volt-2A-...#ht_500wt_1156

If you match the spec, you can get them even cheaper:

http://cgi.ebay.com/12V-5V-AC-Power-...#ht_2738wt_907

If it's the other kind of plug, 3rd parties will have those too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

The LaCie disks shown in the Thunderbolt video appear similar to my current LaCie drives. It is not shown, but it appears that the TB drives will use an external PS brick -- similar to the one that I have had bad experiences.

They will likely be the same, although the portable ones will have smaller bricks and you would be able to run a single drive off the 10W provided by the port.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash-reverse

That HDD. transfer (and read/write) rate is super quick! Way better than my Crucial C300 SATA6 SSD.

They are using multiple external drives in RAID-0 though, which is fine for benchmarking but not for reliability. There will be an SSD model though and it has two internal SSDs in RAID so that should be pretty fast but not cheap.
post #18 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

That's quite a failure rate. You should be able to get the bricks cheaper online e.g:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LaCie-12Volt-2A-...#ht_500wt_1156

If you match the spec, you can get them even cheaper:

http://cgi.ebay.com/12V-5V-AC-Power-...#ht_2738wt_907

If it's the other kind of plug, 3rd parties will have those too.

Yes it is a terrible failure rate. What I didn't mention was that in 2008, LaCie replaced 5 of these power bricks free of charge -- so: 11+5 failures out of 13+5 bricks is an 88.9% failure rate.

I asked the LaCie rep (through email) if a customer shouldn't expect the power brick to last as long as the HDD. No Answer.

I also told him that over the years, since 1978, I have bought hundreds of devices and could count on one hand the number of power supply problems. Oddly, my 1978 Apple ][ had a power supply problem & Rod Holt came to my house to replace it.

Based on this experience, I doubt I will purchase another LaCie HDD -- though I love the drives.

I am looking for a way to remove the drives and include them in a multi-drive enclosure with a robust power supply -- make them into a RAID -- if this is possible.

This is unfortunate, because the 2TB LaCie drive makes an excellent (power-efficient, quiet, fast, reliable) TimeMachine backup device for an individual Mac.


Thanks for the links -- but that is for a less powerful PS brick.

The one LaCie recommends is:

LaCie Power Supply - 57 Watt
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post #19 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

I sure hope so. I've been sitting on the fence waiting for the iMac refresh. Now that they're here, I'm still waiting to see what the system requirements will be for FCP-X. Once I know that, the only missing piece of info will be what the specs of refreshed Mac Pros will be. As you said, maybe we'll get lucky and Apple will refresh the Mac Pros when FCP-X gets released. Then, finally, I'll be ready to upgrade.

I suspect that the current MacBook Pro's will be able to handle FCPX. Tons of media people use them and La Cie is marketing its Thunderbolt drive at them. Lots of small outfits also use iMacs for their work, so I would assume they can handle it, too. Of course, the new MacPros will probably fly past those others, but they will do for some users.

Just ordered the new iMac 27" decked out with 8GB RAM, i7 3.4 GHz CPU, SSD+2TB HD to replace a failing MacPro. Should arrive in another couple of weeks (CTO takes 4+ weeks), shortly after Lion and FCP and some other goodies come out. Christmas in July.

 

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post #20 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

The first Thunderbolt RAID 4TB system (Pegasus) is listed in the Apple Store for $999, which is not that much more than other 4TB RAID systems. The difference in speed will more than make up for any extra cost, especially for busy people.

Could you please provide a link? I looked and did not find it.
post #21 of 33
I have two LaCie Big Disk Extreme 2TB drives that look strong and high quality but both of their power supply bricks also failed. I searched on Amazon and it seems that this is a common problem on my hard drive model. It's disappointing to read that this is still an ongoing problem with their other drives.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I will definitely be in the market for large, fast HDD storage.

I currently use 24 TB of external disk drives:

-- 2 1TB Drives
-- 11 2 TB Drives

I have had some of these drives since 2003 and all run well.

They are all LaCie drives.

The one problem I have had is with the LaCie external power supplies (bricks)

Currently, I have 2 working power supplies for 13 drives. LaCie has indicated that they will replace 5 power bricks free of charge (units under warranty). I will need to buy replacements for the others @ $35 each.
post #22 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Just ordered the new iMac 27" decked out with 8GB RAM, i7 3.4 GHz CPU, SSD+2TB HD to replace a failing MacPro. Should arrive in another couple of weeks (CTO takes 4+ weeks), shortly after Lion and FCP and some other goodies come out. Christmas in July.

Nice build! If I go the iMac route, I'll be ordering almost the same configuration. Only thing is, I'll be getting the stock RAM and then buying 16GB from OWC for less than half the price as Apple. 4x4GB Samsung original modules comes to $240.00 vs $600.00 from Apple.
post #23 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I will definitely be in the market for large, fast HDD storage.

I currently use 24 TB of external disk drives:

-- 2 1TB Drives
-- 11 2 TB Drives

I have had some of these drives since 2003 and all run well.

That's an amazingly poor record for the power supplies. Definitely not going to buy one of those, myself.

I do have this little toy, though, that might solve much of your problem. And for good measure, you can add two of these for really absurd amounts of storage. And if you want to get really silly, and take advantage of the bonded interface, here's a fairly cheap switch that'll let you do that. And FWIW, Provantage also has the best price I've found for the DS1511+ alone or in combo with the DX510.

Hmm... so how much space would you need for all the games for the World Cup?
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post #24 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash-reverse View Post

That HDD. transfer (and read/write) rate is super quick! Way better than my Crucial C300 SATA6 SSD.

That's because SSD storage isn't actually all that fast in terms of sustained throughput, it's actually slower than a good disk solution, especially a RAID array. SSD murders disk on seek time though and burst speeds.

for a single disk setup SATA-6 is faster than thunderbolt, because it's an absolute certainty that internally the external-thunderbolt drive is using SATA.
post #25 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanthohappy View Post

So you're correct in that Thunderbolt will make no speed difference if you were to buy a single drive with a Thunderbolt port, other than the drive-to-drive transfer differences you mentioned; but it opens up a huge potential for faster transfer speeds of RAID systems, if you're able to spend the big dollars for one of those. As the previous poster mentioned, for businesses that use that level of storage, these types of transfer speed differences will pay off very quickly in work hours saved.

Erm - define big dollars? Thunderbolt will definitely be good with a 4 or 8 disk RAID system that is striped for speed, but those aren't really that pricey - I have a 4 disk NAS for home media use - it cost around $500. The big dollar solution is fibre-channel, and I don't see thunderbolt changing that at all.

Thunderbolt will be great in the mid-market though.
post #26 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Erm - define big dollars? Thunderbolt will definitely be good with a 4 or 8 disk RAID system that is striped for speed, but those aren't really that pricey - I have a 4 disk NAS for home media use - it cost around $500. The big dollar solution is fibre-channel, and I don't see thunderbolt changing that at all.

Thunderbolt will be great in the mid-market though.

Well, big dollars for me, and many others just needing a few extra terabytes for personal use. Anything over $400 is big dollars to me, and although you can get a $500 NAS, they don't yet have Thunderbolt. The cheapest I've seen with Thunderbolt is $1000. I'm not saying that's overpriced, as I know for many people and workflows that would pay off quickly and end up saving money, it's just beyond range of my own personal budget.

Since I was responding to someone who had asked about what kind of a difference it would make for a single drive, I was assuming they were in the market for a single drive in the $100-$300 range. Making the jump from there to a $1000 RAID is pretty substantial.

I can also see those prices coming down quite a bit over the next few years, but in the early stages of Thunderbolt I don't think I'll be able to afford a nice RAID that would truly take advantage of it.
post #27 of 33
Its been quite some time since Apple supported the docking station of the laptop and people in the corporate world do use docking stations. Implementing docking station via thunderbolt for laptops (provided all mac laptops have thunderbolt) would be a good idea.
post #28 of 33
Lacie had a run where the power supplies shipped with drives weren't rated correctly for the drives and so failed prematurely. We talked to them a few years back about this and they acknowledged the problem and told us that they were sorting it out (and supplied correct replacement supplies for our drives). They seem to have things in order now and most of the recent drives we've had from them have been good although we do also use a number of WD drives now for offsite backup.
post #29 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman View Post

Could you please provide a link? I looked and did not find it.

Just checked and it's not there; honestly, it was up when I posted that: I ran to my shop and showed them and asked them to get me one.

It had said "shipping in 6-8 weeks" so they might have pulled it to repost later.

Dunno.

 

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post #30 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Nice build! If I go the iMac route, I'll be ordering almost the same configuration. Only thing is, I'll be getting the stock RAM and then buying 16GB from OWC for less than half the price as Apple. 4x4GB Samsung original modules comes to $240.00 vs $600.00 from Apple.

My local shop will be installing RAM at half the Apple price, not to worry.

The SSD should make things snappy (sure did for my MBA) and with a Pegasus RAID off to the side, nothing to worry about.

That said, my current MacPro benchmarks at just over 8600. The i7 iMac 3.4 clocks in at over 11,000 and is less expensive than the MacPro (unless Apple does something amazing this summer...).

Just waiting for the shop to call to say it's arrived...

 

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post #31 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Just checked and it's not there; honestly, it was up when I posted that: I ran to my shop and showed them and asked them to get me one.

It had said "shipping in 6-8 weeks" so they might have pulled it to repost later.

Dunno.

Oh okay. I'm guessing they will wait for next week to announce Final Cut X along side a list of hard drivers and what not, that way they will be able to market them as going together.
post #32 of 33
A quick Google for "promise pegasus apple store" had two Apple Store items appear... Canada and Singapore, but neither link could find a page.

Anybody hear of updates to the other FCS apps? For my work, I am primarily interested in Soundtrack Pro and DVD Studio Pro.

 

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post #33 of 33
So will Apple continue to sell FCP 7 after X comes out? The reason I'm asking is we have some people who want to use our systems to do some cutting and they need FCP 7. We have one system that is ready and another that needs an upgrade from 6. Trying to decide if I have to buy it right now or can wait a bit.
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