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Apple's AirPort Utility points to next-gen Time Capsule, AirPort Extreme

post #1 of 59
Thread Starter 
A routine update to Apple's Airport Utility application contains references to new 4th generation Time Capsule and 5th generation AirPort Extreme devices, according to a new report.

After Apple released the AirPort Utility 5.5.3 update for Windows and Mac on Monday, device listings were uncovered in the update's binary, MacRumors reports. Apple's documentation for the 10MB downloads lists only that it "resolves an issue that caused the AirPort Utitlity to unexpectedly quit during setup."

Of particular interest are listings for "K31 K30B Time Capsule (Simultaneous Dual-Band, Gen3)" and "K10B Apple AirPort Extreme (Simultaneous Dual-Band, Gen3)." Elsewhere in the code for the utility, the rumored devices are reportedly listed as "Time Capsule 802.11n (4th Generation)" and "AirPort Extreme 802.11n (5th Generation)."

Apple's current simultaneous dual-band AirPort products, which were last updated in October 2009, are described as "Gen2."

Recent reports have suggested that available stock of Apple's AirPort and Time Capsule wireless base stations has dwindled ahead of a product update. The latest rumors claim Apple may shift the base stations to run iOS.

iOS-based AirPort base stations could allow for more robust features, such as print and media streaming services, integration with iCloud, and cached wireless software updates. Code references in AirPort Utility seem to support the likelihood of software update caching, according to people familiar with the matter.

Also, indications that Apple is working on wireless drivers for non-Intel CPUs may point to the possibility that Apple plans to enable iOS devices to setup and configure new AirPort or Time Capsule devices without the help of a Mac or Windows PC. Such a move could align with Apple's Post PC strategy, as the company recently revealed that the forthcoming iOS 5 has been designed to be "PC Free" by way of wireless activation, syncing and backup.


post #2 of 59
I wonder why the generation skip.
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2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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post #3 of 59
Probably no generation skip.

Most likely it's a typo, transcription error, something heavily tied to the sketchiness of reporting tech rumors.

Heck, I'd say that 98% of all articles posted to Apple rumor sites are wrong. Why would anyone expect this one to be any different?
post #4 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

Probably no generation skip.

Most likely it's a typo, transcription error, something heavily tied to the sketchiness of reporting tech rumors.

Heck, I'd say that 98% of all articles posted to Apple rumor sites are wrong. Why would anyone expect this one to be any different?

Given that I have seen shots of AirPort Utility embedded into iOS5, this seems entirely accurate. Post PC indeed.
post #5 of 59
^ true, but that doesn't necessarily suggest ARM (A4/A5) processors are on it's way to AEBS ... though admittedly, that would be pretty nifty!
post #6 of 59
I think the Software Update service makes sense, but I hope they don't get too carried away with services on this thing. There's a lot to be said for security through simplicity and this is an internet facing device.
post #7 of 59
If they are able to carry print drivers onboard so AirPrint works automatically then I'm buying one. If not, I'll just content myself with what I've got.
post #8 of 59
Hopefully the next generation of Time Capsule will serve as an iTunes & AppleTV server.
post #9 of 59
A built in ADSL modem would be nice... So you could use it as a cable 'or' ADSL router.

I wouldn't have thought it would add much to the cost of manufacture and they are way overpriced already, so it would add value.

It just seems very un-Apple like, to have to rely on a load of different boxes plugged into each other.

I'm not sure how common ADSL is in America... maybe that's the problem.
post #10 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Downpour View Post

A built in ADSL modem would be nice... So you could use it as a cable 'or' ADSL router.

I wouldn't have thought it would add much to the cost of manufacture and they are way overpriced already, so it would add value.

It just seems very un-Apple like, to have to rely on a load of different boxes plugged into each other.

I'm not sure how common ADSL is in America... maybe that's the problem.

You do know how many version of xDSL there are? ADSL, ADSL2, ADSL2+, VDSL ...

And we are aiming for fibre! So ... no ... not on this planet!
post #11 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by tumme-totte View Post

You do know how many version of xDSL there are? ADSL, ADSL2, ADSL2+, VDSL ...

And we are aiming for fibre! So ... no ... not on this planet!

ADSL2+ is backwards compatible and Fibre would just use the ethernet connection surely?

Fibre is years away for most of the UK.

My point is... why not make a device that everyone can use (as a standalone device for most of them), instead of just limiting it to cable users?

It seems wasteful plugging a wireless adsl modem router into a wireless Apple router, when all you really want is one wireless device, that combines the functionality of the two.

The only visual difference to the Time Capsule/AirPort Extreme would be a tiny little RJ11 port, that all the cable users could ignore.

I thought Apple products were supposed to 'Just Work'... but as it stands, this situation is as confusing as Hell, to the average home user.
post #12 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Downpour View Post

ADSL2+ is backwards compatible and Fibre would just use the ethernet connection surely?

Fibre is years away for most of the UK.

My point is... why not make a device that everyone can use (as a standalone device for most of them), instead of just limiting it to cable users?

It seems wasteful plugging a wireless adsl modem router into a wireless Apple router, when all you really want is one wireless device, that combines the functionality of the two.

The only visual difference to the Time Capsule/AirPort Extreme would be a tiny little RJ11 port, that all the cable users could ignore.

I thought Apple products were supposed to 'Just Work'... but as it stands, this situation is as confusing as Hell, to the average home user.

If DSL would be the thing I can agree. But there is one more thing with the xDSL-modems. And it's not technical at all. In many market's it is part of a "rental"-contract, i e the xDSL hardware comes with the subscription to the service. The subscriber does not own it but rather rent it. And it is not only a business case thing but also a network management thing. Different service providers would want different management set ups. And they will depend on other internals of a typical xDSL-modem, rather than the xDSL protocol as such.

It has never been the business case of Apple to make their AirPorts part of that set up. It may be tiny as you say to add xDSL but knowing that Apple rather strips things out of hardware I would say this is not likely.

On top pf that comes other lower layers such as Cable (CATV based broadband), VDSL now rolling out in many places, fiber with BPON & EPON (CommonAsia) and GPON (France, Verizon and many others) as well as point to point fibre (Sweden, Netherlands, UK, Switzerland and many others). Apple better stick to a Ethernet WAN port and let others mess with lower levels of communication.

Also - who would want their AirPort Extreme wasted if you change subscription or there is a lightning strike? Not me at least.
post #13 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by tumme-totte View Post

If DSL would be the thing I can agree. But there is one more thing with the xDSL-modems. And it's not technical at all. In many market's it is part of a "rental"-contract, i e the xDSL hardware comes with the subscription to the service. The subscriber does not own it but rather rent it. And it is not only a business case thing but also a network management thing. Different service providers would want different management set ups. And they will depend on other internals of a typical xDSL-modem, rather than the xDSL protocol as such.

In a lot of markets the subscriber owns the DSL modem, it would be a waste of money to rent one, they are dirt cheap. And who cares about what the service provider wants on their setup, that's why you set them up when you get them. It makes sense for Apple to release a unit with built in dsl modem.
post #14 of 59
After the Airport Utility Update this morning I noticed that my Time Capsule now has (1st Generation) after it. I'm pretty sure that this is new. I would think this is more evidence that a new Time Capsule that would support staging of updates is likely.
post #15 of 59
Anybody know how to enable Time Machine to backup wirelessly to an external hard drive connected to an Airport Extreme? I do not want to use a Time Capsule since they fail so often and are not upgradeable.
post #16 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Downpour View Post

A built in ADSL modem would be nice... So you could use it as a cable 'or' ADSL router.

I wouldn't have thought it would add much to the cost of manufacture and they are way overpriced already, so it would add value.

It just seems very un-Apple like, to have to rely on a load of different boxes plugged into each other.

I'm not sure how common ADSL is in America... maybe that's the problem.

Am I reading your post correctly...you can already use TC as a cable modem?
post #17 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by msuberly View Post

Am I reading your post correctly...you can already use TC as a cable modem?

He did seem to say that, but the TC is *not* a cable modem. There are too many different ways people connect to the internet. That's why the Apple products just stick to ethernet for the physical connection. Adding extra hardware in there would only benefit a few, but cost everyone.
post #18 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Sukalewski View Post

Anybody know how to enable Time Machine to backup wirelessly to an external hard drive connected to an Airport Extreme? I do not want to use a Time Capsule since they fail so often and are not upgradeable.

Apple has not enabled recognition of a USB-connected external hard drive to an Airport Extreme or Express for Time Machine backups
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post #19 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Sukalewski View Post

Anybody know how to enable Time Machine to backup wirelessly to an external hard drive connected to an Airport Extreme? I do not want to use a Time Capsule since they fail so often and are not upgradeable.

Airport Extreme does not support Time Machine. As for Time Capsule, I guess some fail and some don't. But why do you say it's not upgradeable? Apple has updated the software several times, and you can easily swap the hard drive.
post #20 of 59
I won't be satisfied until there are more-than-one RAIDed drives for redundancy. It doesn't have to be hot swappable, have dual power supplies, or other enterprise-level requirements, just multiple drives so that no single drive can cause the failure of all data.
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post #21 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I won't be satisfied until there are more-than-one RAIDed drives for redundancy. It doesn't have to be hot swappable, have dual power supplies, or other enterprise-level requirements, just multiple drives so that no single drive can cause the failure of all data.

As a backup device, the Time Capsule drive can fail and you haven't lost any data because it's still on your Mac. You replace the TC drive, and off you go.
post #22 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

As a backup device, the Time Capsule drive can fail and you haven't lost any data because it's still on your Mac. You replace the TC drive, and off you go.

Stating "Home Server" clearly indicates I want more than just a network Time Machine drive from Apple.
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post #23 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

Airport Extreme does not support Time Machine. As for Time Capsule, I guess some fail and some don't. But why do you say it's not upgradeable? Apple has updated the software several times, and you can easily swap the hard drive.

AirPort Extreme does support Time Machine! If you attack extern HD it's possibel to runt Time Machine to them. We do daily on at least three sites.
post #24 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

Airport Extreme does not support Time Machine. As for Time Capsule, I guess some fail and some don't. But why do you say it's not upgradeable? Apple has updated the software several times, and you can easily swap the hard drive.

Thanks for the link. I assume that this voids the Apple warranty.

As for the failure of some Time Capsules, please see this link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...-replace-fault

Has Apple changed the design of the Time Capsule to allow it to run cooler and not burn up?
post #25 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by tumme-totte View Post

AirPort Extreme does support Time Machine! If you attack extern HD it's possibel to runt Time Machine to them. We do daily on at least three sites.

Please link to the "how", as Apple doesn't support it.
post #26 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Stating "Home Server" clearly indicates I want more than just a network Time Machine drive from Apple.

Sorry. I missed your title. I have a 13" MacBook connected to a Drobo. My Drobo has all of the media on it, and the MacBook is the home server. It works great.

Note that a Drobo (or other RAID device) only protects against drive failures, and still needs to be backed up if you value the data on it.
post #27 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by tumme-totte View Post

AirPort Extreme does support Time Machine! If you attack extern HD it's possibel to runt Time Machine to them. We do daily on at least three sites.

Thanks for that. I set one up a while back (at least two years ago I think) but discontinued it. I recall managing to do a back up locally then with some hacking getting the back up to continue wirelessly. Reading all the 'definitive you can't' messages I thought Apple must have changed something. Out of curiosity are you backing up multiple Macs to the same external drive on the AE?
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post #28 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

Please link to the "how", as Apple doesn't support it.

Found this using google . This is how I did it a few years back. The trick is getting the sparse file started locally I think or was back in 2008.

This is what I did (advice taken from the Apple Support Discussion Forum)

1. Plug external HDD to Mac computer via USB 2.0
2. Once the Volume has "mounted" - proceed to format it as Mac OS Extended (Journaled) using AirPort Disk Utilities
3. If you want to partition this external HDD, make sure it's Map Partition Scheme is GUID (and not the external HDD's Master Boot Record - which is used for Windows).
4. Once everything is done, proceed with setting up TM under System Preferences. It should read that there is an external HDD connected and you let it connect to that.
5. TM should recognise this and "Prepare for backup"
6. Let TM run for a minute (when you can see it is actually transferring files to the external HDD - through it's progress bar).
7. STOP TM.
8. Eject Volume
9. Hook it to the back the AirPort Extreme Base Station and make sure you see it being mounted in the Finder window.
10. Enter TM SYSTEM PREFERENCES and "Change Disk" to point to the volume connected to the AEBS.
11. START TM.
12. It should resume from the last backup (which was the interrupted 1 minute backup).

And presto! You're done. I've had this set up and still chugs along just fine.
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post #29 of 59
Netgear "soursa" is a dual raid drive w Ethernet port. It supports time machine and is cheap at (from memory) $169 at Best Buy. It's really a NAS with a simplified interface. Wasn't quite what I was looking for, so no hands on experience. Seems they made some interface trade offs regarding music streaming (browser). But... you said RAID backups were you key need.

My Book Live II also does two drive RAID fairly inexpensively - Frys at $199
post #30 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

Note that a Drobo (or other RAID device) only protects against drive failures, and still needs to be backed up if you value the data on it.

Sure, I back my data up to external HDDs which then get shipped to an underground bunker in the heart of a mountain. I also burn Blu-ray discs of my backups to protect against EMPs. Just in case that isn't enough I also have employee a team of craftsmen to chisel my OS contents in binary onto stone tablets.

In all seriousness, my longterm desire is to have an iOS-based Apple Home Server with 3-4 drives that can be made into one using RAID or used as a single drive. I want this to be the hub so iDevices can truly become post-PC insofar as the "PC" is no longer the central hub within a household, the Home Server is. So far we have iOS 5.0 becoming untethered from iTunes, iCloud as the conductor of your content, and rumors of an iOS/ARM-based TC and impending update so at least part of my wish is coming to a head.
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post #31 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Found this using google . This is how I did it a few years back.

I researched this last year. As I recall, Apple said at the introduction of Time Machine that Airport Extreme would support it. But that didn't happen when Leopard was released. I think I found some information on the net that suggested Apple left the feature out because it wasn't reliable.
post #32 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I won't be satisfied until there are more-than-one RAIDed drives for redundancy. It doesn't have to be hot swappable, have dual power supplies, or other enterprise-level requirements, just multiple drives so that no single drive can cause the failure of all data.

My feeling exactly! In fact I took the path of creating my own TIme Machine based on a DLINK DNS-323 (linux based) ext drive enclosure running a very custom of software that fully implements Apple's AFP protocol including the extensions required for proper Time Machine operations. I run the DNS-323 (two drives) in RAID 1 (mirrored) using enterprise class server drives. It has been rock solid. The path to convert a bare DNS-323 to a "roll your own" TM is convoluted and involves a LOT of effort, but I and many others have tested the setup time and again and it has saved my butt on several occasions when for whatever reasons, I needed to fall back to a previous version of a file.

BTW, as the DNS-323 is GigE only, I have it connected to a GigE switch that is in turn connected to my Airport Extreme which in turn connects to my MBP via 802.11N running @ 5GHz. I did connect my MBP directly to the switch for the initial backup, but since, wireless mode is used.

I have also implemented the same software setup using a 4 drive Drobo enclosure (linux based) for my sister. This solution is more expensive (approx $1000), but offers even better drive failure support as the Drobo implements pooled drive management with hot swap capability/recovery. Their setup supports two Macs backing up alternately (15 and 45 minutes after the hour...yes it is possible to force TM into a set time of the hour start). As with the DNS-323, this setup has been rock solid (18 months of operation).

As a sidenote, the Airport Extreme with an attached disc drive WILL support TM functionality, but there are some key cache flushing capabilities that are missing from the AE AFP implementation. So, while use of the AE as a TM is NOT supported by Apple, it does work, but with some risk (ie all the risks of a TM plus a few additional ones due to unsupported APF functionality in the AE)

If Apple implemented anything along the lines of what I described above, I would be all over it.

david
post #33 of 59
Perhaps I'm old, but it seems even with the cloud one still needs to have an onsite physical backup or two. In the past I've always had things on iDisk, drop box and everything on an ext. HD. I even made sure I had two macs sync'd with eachother. A desktop iMac and a MB. If one broke, I wasn't dead in the water.

It's hard to let go of having the desktop iMac being the Hub as Stevo suggested, but I'm going to try. An ip4, an iPad 2, ATV, iCloud, iOS5 and that's it! I'm really going to pare down my digital footprint. I'm sorry I won't take advantage of a new timecapsule or Lion!

Best
post #34 of 59
and want to give a sarcastic "thanks" to those here.

Before I bought this I posted a question: Will Apple be updating these soon? Or is it safe to buy? I got a resounding "NAAAAH.. there's nothing to update... blah blah." I even pointed out that the ship times were getting long usually indicating an end of life. Sheesh.
post #35 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyDogHasFleas View Post

and want to give a sarcastic "thanks" to those here.

Before I bought this I posted a question: Will Apple be updating these soon? Or is it safe to buy? I got a resounding "NAAAAH.. there's nothing to update... blah blah." I even pointed out that the ship times were getting long usually indicating an end of life. Sheesh.

Where is this post of yours? Who made a comment 2 months ago about information that is only just surfacing? Have you not get 2 months of utility out of the device? Why did you buy it if you thought an update was imminent?
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post #36 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

I researched this last year. As I recall, Apple said at the introduction of Time Machine that Airport Extreme would support it. But that didn't happen when Leopard was released. I think I found some information on the net that suggested Apple left the feature out because it wasn't reliable.

I was simply responding to your request :"Please link to the "how", as Apple doesn't support it."
It worked fine for me BTW.
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post #37 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Hopefully the next generation of Time Capsule will serve as an iTunes & AppleTV server.

If it moves beyond simply backing up files and becomes a media server, I hope it contains twin drives so a failure doesn't result in data loss.
post #38 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by msuberly View Post

Am I reading your post correctly...you can already use TC as a cable modem?

Sorry if I was unclear, there are so many possible configurations it is difficult to put into words.

Normally if you are setting up wireless (in the UK at least) there are two types of wireless router you can purchase:

1) A cable router like Apple provides (the cable modem is separate and comes from your supplier).
2) An ADSL modem router (this includes the modem and can plug directly into the phone line.)

Apple devices like the AirPort Extreme and Time Capsule, don't include the ADSL modem, so like option 1, have to be plugged into a separate router/modem for use with ADSL, when modem routers from other manufactures, wouldn't have to.

I hope that is clear, like I said it is difficult to explain.

My suggestion was for an Apple device that could function on any type of connection, in the simplest way possible.
post #39 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

In a lot of markets the subscriber owns the DSL modem, it would be a waste of money to rent one, they are dirt cheap. And who cares about what the service provider wants on their setup, that's why you set them up when you get them. It makes sense for Apple to release a unit with built in dsl modem.

No it doesn't make sense. At all.

What doesn't make sense is:
a) that you have said that you're a home user,
b) a knowledgeable post has been written why it's not feasible... and,
c) YOU ARE still bleating about wanting one with dsl and claiming Apple should waste thier money just for you?

Geez! Extreme-Ego-spastik!
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post #40 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Found this using google . This is how I did it a few years back. The trick is getting the sparse file started locally I think or was back in 2008.

This is what I did (advice taken from the Apple Support Discussion Forum)

1. Plug external HDD to Mac computer via USB 2.0
2. Once the Volume has "mounted" - proceed to format it as Mac OS Extended (Journaled) using AirPort Disk Utilities
3. If you want to partition this external HDD, make sure it's Map Partition Scheme is GUID (and not the external HDD's Master Boot Record - which is used for Windows).
4. Once everything is done, proceed with setting up TM under System Preferences. It should read that there is an external HDD connected and you let it connect to that.
5. TM should recognise this and "Prepare for backup"
6. Let TM run for a minute (when you can see it is actually transferring files to the external HDD - through it's progress bar).
7. STOP TM.
8. Eject Volume
9. Hook it to the back the AirPort Extreme Base Station and make sure you see it being mounted in the Finder window.
10. Enter TM SYSTEM PREFERENCES and "Change Disk" to point to the volume connected to the AEBS.
11. START TM.
12. It should resume from the last backup (which was the interrupted 1 minute backup).

And presto! You're done. I've had this set up and still chugs along just fine.


Thanks for sharing this great tip! I was waiting for a TC update to purchase one solely for the reason that I thought using TM to backup to NAS was not possible (unless the NAS happened to be TC).
Question - does the router have to be an apple router (airport/AE), or any router will work?
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