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Apple may freeze new Mac introductions until release of Mac OS X Lion - Page 2

post #41 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

Io5 delayed. Almost 4month after schedule
Iphone 5 delayed because Ios5 delayed
Ipad2 still has huge production problems. Was about 2 month late when released.
The new Imac: People who ordered custom build SSD imacs has waited 4-6 weeks and still not got the imacs
no macmini refresh for a year
no macbook air refresh almost a year
no macbook refresh almost a year
no macpro refresh over a year. New intel CPUs released 2 month ago. MacPro usually got newest CPU a couple of month before official release.
Ipod classic not updated for almost 2 years. There are hard drives that could enable a 320gig model.
Time capsule has not been updated for years. 3 terra disk available.

How shall Apple do if they want to have a release window of 3-4 weeks between products?

On time?: Ipod touch. ipod nano, appleTV take3

To be introduced 2011:
AppleTV LCD version

q1 2012
Ipad3. (they have to wait for 28nm ARM processors)

Stupidity: Kill of Xserver Xraid
Apple builds computer centre for 500 million and uses HP servers instead of Xserve/Xraid. I would sell my Apples shares if I find out that they use windows server.

Fun: Steves current obsession is Retina displays and Anoretic computers. Lets hope for an all retina display lineup. From Iphone to 30 inch cinema display.

Sad: Apple computer is dead. Its all about Ios/Iphone/Ipad. I know that Apple make most of its money from Iphone. The backlash against Apple has started with fAndroid. Using 5 year old CPUs in many computers is not good.

interesting: Apples exclusive agreement with intel runs out any day now. After that Apple can use AMD/ARM cpus in their lineup.

I am not sarcastic in the following: thank you for taking the time to enumerate what I am feeling
post #42 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by njmax View Post

Is it true that Lion will not have Rosetta to run older applications?

Its true, Rosetta will not be supported at all in Lion, not even as an optional download. You'll have to stick with Snow Leopard if you have applications that depend on it.
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post #43 of 134
"Lion comes out next month, so it makes sense for Apple to wait a month until they release new models. It's a no brainer. And for anybody complaining about rosetta, get with the times and step into the new century."


Well, I would love to "step into the new century", but that can be a challenge when you are on a budget. I would love to buy the latest and greatest of everything, but have to pace my self and my wallet.
post #44 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by njmax View Post

Well, I would love to "step into the new century", but that can be a challenge when you are on a budget. I would love to buy the latest and greatest of everything, but have to pace my self and my wallet.

If running legacy and outdated software is very important or vital to somebody, then they can simply keep their old hardware just in case. Do what I do. I still have older machines running OS 9 if I absolutely need to use some old software, which is quite rare in my case at least.
post #45 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

I'm sorry, I know I'm going to be tagged as overly pessimistic here, but Lion is not nearly as revolutionary as previous OS X upgrades have been. Delaying hardware releases out of convenience for customers so they don't need to download it makes sense. Especially since in the past they'd just slip an upgrade disk into the box before shipping it, and now there are no upgrade disks.

Delaying the hardware because they are locking it into Lion so you can't downgrade to Snow Leopard is the more likely reason.

It's easy peazy to make a Lion install DVD. I respectfully disagree Lion is less revolutionary than previous versions. I think it is the most Revolutionary version yet because it's MPG centric: Multi-Touch, Physics, Gestures. Who would want to downgrade to Snow Leopard? That would be absurd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by commun5 View Post

A lot of folks will say: No Rosetta, no Lion.

Very few if any. The benefits of Lion far outweigh the loss of Rosetta.
Quote:
Originally Posted by min_t View Post

makes no sense at all. the upgrade is free for new mac purchases. delaying the release of new hardware inconveniences the buyer and is a potential lost sale.

But many would postpone til they couldn't or forget to go through the machinations Apple would require to give out the free Lion Redemption codes. Human nature doesn't lend your theory much credibility.

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post #46 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuusharo View Post

Its true, Rosetta will not be supported at all in Lion, not even as an optional download. You'll have to stick with Snow Leopard if you have applications that depend on it.

I haven't messed around with virtualization on the mac very much except running a version of Parallels to use Windows on my MBP. I'm wondering if you could run both Lion and Snow Leopard in separate partitions in case you needed to use Rosetta. I'm also not sure how one installs Lion from scratch on a freshly formatted drive since it is more like an App installation than the old boot from the CD style method.

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post #47 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multimedia View Post

I think it is the most Revolutionary version yet because it's MPG centric: Multi-Touch, Physics, Gestures.

Touch is where it's at. I hardly ever use a mouse anymore and I probably won't ever buy one again for as long as I live. The Magic Trackpad is great, and I would recommend that everybody gets one.
post #48 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I still have older machines running OS 9 if I absolutely need to use some old software, which is quite rare in my case at least.


Good. Now I know who to call on when some old file is needed which was saved with a bad filename like graphic designers used to do in the 90s using option ƒ character as in 'final'. Impossible to even list the directory using OS X, Windows or UNIX with that character in the filename.

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post #49 of 134
Just makes economic sense. Pre-load Lion to avoid unhappy customers later.

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post #50 of 134
I still use some PowerPC apps. If I was in the market for a new Mac I'd have two choices: (1) buy right away and stick with Snow Leopard, or (2) "obtain" a copy of Snow Leopard Server and run it in a virtual machine.

But I'm not in the market this year. Next year I'll have rid myself of PPC software except old games I rarely play, Thunderbolt peripherals should exist and Apple may finally support my USB 3.0 drive array at full speed.
post #51 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

no macbook air refresh almost a year
no macpro refresh over a year. New intel CPUs released 2 month ago. MacPro usually got newest CPU a couple of month before official release.

Not exactly.

MacBookAir, refreshed October 20, 2010
MacPro, refreshed July 27, 2010

To my knowledge the new Sandybridge Xeons that are suitable for the MacPro are coming this fall, as widely discussed on this forum. The ones that are already out are of a different kind.
post #52 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

I still use some PowerPC apps. If I was in the market for a new Mac I'd have two choices: (1) buy right away and stick with Snow Leopard, or (2) "obtain" a copy of Snow Leopard Server and run it in a virtual machine.

But I'm not in the market this year. Next year I'll have rid myself of PPC software except old games I rarely play, Thunderbolt peripherals should exist and Apple may finally support my USB 3.0 drive array at full speed.

You could always backup your current machine onto an external drive and just boot from that when you need to access your legacy stuff.

That's what I plan to do anyway.
post #53 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

...Next year I'll have rid myself of PPC software except old games I rarely play, Thunderbolt peripherals should exist and Apple may finally support my USB 3.0 drive array at full speed.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that last part unless Apple or someone else makes a Thunderbolt to USB3.0 adaptor.
post #54 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

I wouldn't hold my breath on that last part unless Apple or someone else makes a Thunderbolt to USB3.0 adaptor.

Why? When everyone has Thunderbolt, no one will NEED a USB adapter.

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post #55 of 134
I am equally pumped!(Raising my fist) It's the end of Microsoft and Dell.
post #56 of 134
If there is no built-in Rosetta, and you can't buy it from the app store, then a lot of people will be frustrated to find that they have data they need in some old app, and they can't get to it.

An example: say you need to calculate tax basis for some stock purchased several years ago, and you want to find out exactly when you bought it and for how much. An easy search in Quicken. Until you find out you can't use it anymore.

Certainly Apple could pay for maintaining Rosetta if they sold it on the app store. They would also avoid many pissed off customers who only find out they need it after migration to Lion.
post #57 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Except no chips exist, so they can't possibly be updated. Normally Mac Pro refreshes go a year and a half between, so we're not overdue, anyway.



You're right. It's idiotic vertically. However...



More so. This won't happen EVER.



What "schedule"? What "delay"? You can't possibly know this.



See above.



So it was late... when it was released early. Okay.



That's perfectly normal.



And this is the only part of your quote with which I agree. Except your numbers are off.



And? Average time is a year and a half.



Having absolutely nothing to do with the Mac Pro. The Mac Pro uses these. Xeon E5 LGA 1356. The Mac Pro has always used those. They're not due until Q4.



It's dead. The ten year anniversary will be its funeral.



Apple has never updated the Time Capsule's capacity with any semblance of urgency.



Posts don't allow enough to adequately express how much this won't happen.



1. No one wants beautifully-designed server hardware.
2. Apple's replacing the XServe/Mac Pro/something later this year. Stay tuned.



Are... you talking about people still using PPC Macs? I don't get this.



Interesting: How you think you could possibly know this or that it can even happen.



You've seen this, yes? Can't work on AMD chips. Not going to happen ever.


are you on a debating team or something?
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post #58 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeph View Post

You could always backup your current machine onto an external drive and just boot from that when you need to access your legacy stuff.

That's what I plan to do anyway.

Not if the new machine won't boot Snow Leopard.
post #59 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by xgman View Post

are you on a debating team or something?

When you're faced with that. much. wrong., there's not much more you can do than refute every point. I did what I could. Some things were right, some things no one can know, but most was just. plain. wrong.

FUD abounds. Nip it in the bud if you're going to do anything about it at all.

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post #60 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Instead, the Mac maker is said to be locked on waiting till it can image the new notebooks with a Gold Master build of Lion so that buyers are afforded the latest and greatest Apple experience.

That would REALLY suck for those of us who have to use DAW software and audio interface hardware that's highly unlikely to be "Lion ready" in July...

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post #61 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

When you're faced with that. much. wrong., there's not much more you can do than refute every point. I did what I could. Some things were right, some things no one can know, but most was just. plain. wrong.

Your valiant efforts against the forces of unreason are noticed and appreciated. We have to fight the kipple, if we don't fight the kipple the kipple wins.
post #62 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

I wouldn't hold my breath on that last part unless Apple or someone else makes a Thunderbolt to USB3.0 adaptor.

I don't think it'll be Apple, I think it'll be WD or some similar storage company.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Why? When everyone has Thunderbolt, no one will NEED a USB adapter.

Because there will be people with USB 3.0 drives? They'll probably be cheaper than Thunderport drives and they are available today. Add in the fact that HP is throwing their weight behind USB 3.0 and I think you can count on Best Buy, etc. stocking a lot more USB 3.0 hard drive SKUs than Thunderport SKUs.

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post #63 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Touch is where it's at. I hardly ever use a mouse anymore and I probably won't ever buy one again for as long as I live. The Magic Trackpad is great, and I would recommend that everybody gets one.

Me too. I'm a heavy iPad 2 user and just ordered my first Magic Trackpad from B&H this morning for use with my Mac Pro and Kensington Turbo Mouse I've been using since 1985.

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post #64 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Good. Now I know who to call on when some old file is needed which was saved with a bad filename like graphic designers used to do in the 90s using option character as in 'final'. Impossible to even list the directory using OS X, Windows or UNIX with that character in the filename.

I haven't tried it in OS X, but in Unix you could simply do an 'ls -li' which will allow you to see the inode number of the file and then you a 'find -inum # -exec' to rename the file. Just a thought. I only assume that since OS X is basically a Unix variant that this would work similarly there also.
post #65 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multimedia View Post

Me too. I'm a heavy iPad 2 user and just ordered my first Magic Trackpad from B&H this morning for use with my Mac Pro and Kensington Turbo Mouse I've been using since 1985.

I think that you'll like the Magic Trackpad. I have an iPad2 also, and I find that using a Magic Trackpad with a Mac is very similar to using a touch screen. Hopefully you have some rechargeable batteries also, because you do have to change them out if you use the trackpad a lot.
post #66 of 134
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post #67 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by svnipp View Post

I haven't tried it in OS X, but in Unix you could simply do an 'ls -li' which will allow you to see the inode number of the file and then you a 'find -inum # -exec' to rename the file. Just a thought. I only assume that since OS X is basically a Unix variant that this would work similarly there also.


The problem is that the file is read only since it is on a non ISO CD so you cannot -ls the file or -cp it.

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post #68 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

It'll be a while, especially if we're talking worldwide (currently around 3%) instead of just the US (5%).

You stats seem to be out of date. As of the end of 2010 Apple was already at 9.7% (Gartner's Preliminary U.S. PC Vendor Unit Shipment Estimates for 4Q10 (Thousands of Units)
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post #69 of 134
Sounds, like it would be easier to own 2 macs. I have a 2000 Pismo Powerbook for any older software.
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post #70 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by commun5 View Post

A lot of folks will say: No Rosetta, no Lion.

It seems ironic that the only software I own that uses Rosetta is Rosetta Stone language software.
post #71 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by njmax View Post

"Lion comes out next month, so it makes sense for Apple to wait a month until they release new models. It's a no brainer. And for anybody complaining about rosetta, get with the times and step into the new century."


Well, I would love to "step into the new century", but that can be a challenge when you are on a budget. I would love to buy the latest and greatest of everything, but have to pace my self and my wallet.

I could send a link to ebay so you all you guys can buy a old iMac for under $100 so you can run all your old software.
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post #72 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by modernmagic View Post

Sounds, like it would be easier to own 2 macs. I have a 2000 Pismo Powerbook for any older software.

I have a Pismo too, though it hasn't been working for about 5 years now. The drive died and I haven't bothered to replace it yet. I should probably hurry and get one, because those IDE 2.5" drives aren't very common anymore.
post #73 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Object-X View Post

It seems ironic that the only software I own that uses Rosetta is Rosetta Stone language software.

Ah, that would explain why my Hindi, Japanese, and Irish wouldn't install...

I'm still not in the "Rosetta's good" camp, by the way. Rosetta Stone'll update their software posthaste once Lion comes out, that's for sure. By all of the mall Apple Stores I've ever seen, there has ALWAYS been a Rosetta Stone kiosk in the hall right next to them.

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post #74 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by min_t View Post

makes no sense at all. the upgrade is free for new mac purchases. delaying the release of new hardware inconveniences the buyer and is a potential lost sale.

Even with an upgrade being free, it's not likely people will immediately know about it or how to install it. I'd say it's far better to ship them with the latest OS and that way ensure that there's a good base of 6-7 million people on Lion over the next 6 months.

If they upgraded the Macbook Air, Macbook and Mini before Lion, that leaves only the Mac Pro a certainty for an install base for a good 8 months.

I also think the NAND memory has something to do with this. Toshiba won't start mass production until July at the earliest and I don't think it would be a good idea to keep the Air with 64GB on the entry model. It needs to keep progressing in all areas to take over from the MB, even if that doesn't happen at this revision.
post #75 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by physguy View Post

Not sure what one has to do with the other. I would be almost certain (never certain until tested) that the current iWeb will still run on Lion, just would be able to buy it going forward. Of course it hasn't been update for something like 2 years in any case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiles77 View Post

Oh no, you can install iWeb fine on your Lion machine. The death of iWeb is merely the removal of site hosting (which you cannot avoid as it occurs server-side) and no further updates to iWeb. Your concerns about iWeb's demise should not impede your upgrade to Lion in the slightest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefinite View Post

iWeb still works in Lion, so there's no reason there to delay upgrading. Also, you can use iWeb to publish to your own host via FTP. It's true Apple won't be updating iWeb anymore, but iDVD has already gone through two iLife cycles without an update and it still works. As long as you don't need MobileMe and publish your site to a new host, you'll be able to use iWeb for at least another few years.

I hope you are all right. Assume as least one of you is a developer and has been testing Lion compatibility on legacy iLife apps. Big relief. Still hope Steve relents and (1) spares iWeb, and (2) allows hosting on iCloud. Just smooths out my work flow.

I have heard others say, "just use Facebook, that's the future of personal web pages." Well, not for me as a college prof. I have all kinds of quizzes, practically an entire book of text, and other stuff that just doesn't work on a Facebook page. Does Steve really think personal websites are dead for ordinary users? There's a lot more to our usage than just social interaction.
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post #76 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Even with an upgrade being free, it's not likely people will immediately know about it or how to install it. I'd say it's far better to ship them with the latest OS and that way ensure that there's a good base of 6-7 million people on Lion over the next 6 months.

I may be cynical but I think a big chunk of this is that they want to be able to show how fast Lion is taken up versus windows 7. Found an old graph from Q1-2010 and take up of 10.6 wasn't that impressive. They want the equivalent graph this time to be more impressive

post #77 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Unfortunately, I'm one of those 37. I have an HP Color LaserJet 2840 that requires Rosetta. It is a very expensive printer and it would be an absolute shame if it is not supported in Lion.

Drivers for 2840 are included in Snow Leopard.
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post #78 of 134
To reply to everyone who has quoted me:

If you buy an early 2011 MBP or iMac you may or may not be able to boot it using your old Snow Leopard install. It's possible that you'll have to track down the special Snow Leopard DVD for that particular model in order to get it to work.

If you buy a mid 2011 Mac of any kind it will ONLY boot Lion. Having your old Snow Leopard disk in an external drive won't help you one bit.

USB 3.0 drives are available today from pretty much any place that sells computer peripherals. Prices are only slightly higher than USB 2.0 ones. Thunderbolt peripherals, hmmm, still waiting to see one and expecting it to cost $$$$$.

Intel is supposed to be including USB 3.0 support in their Ivy Bridge chipsets. Thus new Mac models introduced in 2012 should support USB 3.0.
post #79 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by modernmagic View Post

You stats seem to be out of date. As of the end of 2010 Apple was already at 9.7% (Gartner's Preliminary U.S. PC Vendor Unit Shipment Estimates for 4Q10 (Thousands of Units)

I could be wrong, but I think he meant overall installed base, not just the quarterly shipment volumes. Like, out of all the computers in use today, how many are Macs.
post #80 of 134
Edit: Removed by Christopher126.
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