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Apple may freeze new Mac introductions until release of Mac OS X Lion - Page 3

post #81 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefinite View Post

iWeb still works in Lion, so there's no reason there to delay upgrading. Also, you can use iWeb to publish to your own host via FTP. It's true Apple won't be updating iWeb anymore, but iDVD has already gone through two iLife cycles without an update and it still works. As long as you don't need MobileMe and publish your site to a new host, you'll be able to use iWeb for at least another few years.

Thanks for the explanation, thefinite. Good to know!
post #82 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

I may be cynical but I think a big chunk of this is that they want to be able to show how fast Lion is taken up versus windows 7. Found an old graph from Q1-2010 and take up of 10.6 wasn't that impressive. They want the equivalent graph this time to be more impressive

It certainly makes it more appealing at WWDC because developers using the new APIs like the iCloud APIs would like to know that there are enough people out there to actually benefit from the effort and the install base vs competing systems helps too.

That graph shows pretty clearly that people just don't take the time to upgrade systems even if the upgrades are inexpensive and take a few minutes and the more full-featured operating systems become, the less need there is to upgrade anyway.
post #83 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetroRichie View Post

By a lot of folks, do you mean, like, 37?

I voted last week - bought my new iMac so I didn't have to put out 50% of its cost replacing hardware and software which requires Rosetta. For just $30 I will be able to install Lion on a second volume, after the first couple of updates make it stable. Just as well Apple had recently refreshed the iMac.
post #84 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by davida View Post

Not if the new machine won't boot Snow Leopard.

Why wouldn't it? Hold the option key upon startup and OSX shows you all available boot devices. Unless you have reason to believe that Lion will specifically prohibit this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

If you buy an early 2011 MBP or iMac you may or may not be able to boot it using your old Snow Leopard install. It's possible that you'll have to track down the special Snow Leopard DVD for that particular model in order to get it to work.

If you buy a mid 2011 Mac of any kind it will ONLY boot Lion.

Has that been confirmed? Or is that speculation?
post #85 of 134
I am saving my money now so I can get a new MBA...
post #86 of 134
You're wrong on most of this.

iOS 5 is not delayed. It's Apple's schedule, not yours.

As a developer, I've used Lion. You want to use it. It's an improvement over snow leopard.

To AI, iCloud is slated for the fall when iOS 5 is released. While I'm sure Apple wants the platform ready, people purchasing Macs with Lion next month are not going to have access to iCloud yet.

But yes, a hardware refresh shipping with the new software is better than trying to get everyone to pay $30 a month or two after they bought the computer. Lion is a big enough new experience that they want people upgraded and that's a good thing.

To Mr. Rosetta, if your HP printer never had its drivers updated, shame on HP, not Apple.
post #87 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

If running legacy and outdated software is very important or vital to somebody, then they can simply keep their old hardware just in case. Do what I do. I still have older machines running OS 9 if I absolutely need to use some old software, which is quite rare in my case at least.

I don't know if Quicken is "outdated software". It runs on my Mac today. I hate them for not updating their app but unfortunately I have years of Quicken data. I might have to look into migrating my Quicken data to Windows version of Quicken just in case anything happens to my Mac.
post #88 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by njmax View Post

Well, I would love to "step into the new century", but that can be a challenge when you are on a budget. I would love to buy the latest and greatest of everything, but have to pace my self and my wallet.

You've had 5 years to pace yourself and your wallet. What do you use that is so good that new software isnt free or much better at a reasonable price?
post #89 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

That graph shows pretty clearly that people just don't take the time to upgrade systems even if the upgrades are inexpensive and take a few minutes and the more full-featured operating systems become, the less need there is to upgrade anyway.

In many ways, this is a good thing. It just means the OS along with the apps we have running on our Macs is working great.
post #90 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Touch is where it's at. I hardly ever use a mouse anymore and I probably won't ever buy one again for as long as I live. The Magic Trackpad is great, and I would recommend that everybody gets one.

I second this, except for when my fingers stick to the pad and I wish I had a mouse. Needs to be a bit more silky smooth.
post #91 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Instead, the Mac maker is said to be locked on waiting till it can image the new notebooks with a Gold Master build of Lion so that buyers are afforded the latest and greatest Apple experience. <snip>
The same methodology is believed to be in place for Thunderbolt-equipped versions of the Mac mini and LED Cinema Display

So, the LED cinema Display is being held back so that it can ship with Lion?
The only possible reason would be touch, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchelljd View Post

Honestly, adding touchscreen capability to the entire laptop product line ought to be possible and an easy manufacturing upgrade for Apple to accomplish. They could do it in the same form factor without major changes.

MacBook Airs make sense as the first laptop to add touch. Touch makes a lot of sense as an addition (not replacement) to the mouse or trackpad - once you use the iPad and iPhone everywhere you can find yourself reaching for the screen on the laptop occasionally.

But it's not enough of a benefit yet. I don't think Apple will do this throughout their products until the extra cost of touch is minimal.
So are we there yet?
post #92 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbansprawl View Post

iCloud is slated for the fall when iOS 5 is released. While I'm sure Apple wants the platform ready, people purchasing Macs with Lion next month are not going to have access to iCloud yet.

I'm pretty sure that for Lion and iCloud they said July. iOS 5 was fall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In addition to seamlessly syncing data, contacts and calendars across multiple devices -- including Macs and PCs -- Apple's iCloud also promises to simplify users' lives, making it easy to access photos, videos and personal files without the need to manually transfer or back up. Apple has boasted that its offering will be more full-featured than its rivals, namely Google and Amazon, as well as third-party services like Dropbox.

Where did iCloud promise access to videos or personal files? I get that iDisk can store your documents folder, and I get that individual apps can now store their data on the cloud instead of on your computer - but that's not quite the same is it?
post #93 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchelljd View Post

I wonder if holding back on new macs will mean:

1- New Mac Pro's with better thunderbolt accessories
2- New Apple HD Monitor with Built in HD cam + which is touch screen capable
3- New Mac-Mini with Thunderbolt
4- Macbook with touchscreen and combo Hard drive SSD drive.
5- Macbook Air with touchscreen and combo Hard drive SSD drive.
6- Macbook Pro with touchscreen?


Honestly, adding touchscreen capability to the entire laptop product line ought to be possible and an easy manufacturing upgrade for Apple to accomplish. They could do it in the same form factor without major changes.

The only upgrade as an option i would like is Blu-Ray Recording, even for storage. At this point Apple is ridiculous by not offering it in their desktop line. BD is widely adopted, and a great format for sharing movies on in HD.

not everyone wants to be connected to internet and stream everything.

Where have you been? Touch screens are not an option, and for so many reasons. Thats why we have multi-touch built into our software, and multi-touch mice now shipping with our desktops.
post #94 of 134
Guys Guys This is a typical wait on quarter to end. They have already made their quarter blowout numbers. Go long now.
post #95 of 134
Win/win... Apple is not only coordinating a hardware and OS upgrade. When the reviews come in declaring MBA the must have gadget of 2011 the company won't bump into a 4 week backorder. Sounds the they've been hoarding MBAs!
post #96 of 134
I've seen Lion and I wasn't too impressed with the GUI changes. It is ok. Maybe I just need more time with it. It was only preview 3 or something like that though. For $29 bucks I'll get it anyway.
post #97 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeph View Post

Has that been confirmed? Or is that speculation?

No model of computer can run an earlier version of software than the first version with which that model was shipped.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #98 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

Io5 delayed. Almost 4month after schedule

Bull. There was never a public schedule for iOS 5, so how would you know it was delayed?


Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

Iphone 5 delayed because Ios5 delayed

Bull. There was never a public schedule for iPhone 5, so how would you know it was delayed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

Ipad2 still has huge production problems. Was about 2 month late when released.

Says who? Apple never announced a schedule for iPad 2. In fact, most of the iOS devices are updated on roughly yearly schedules, so iPad 2 was early. And "still has huge production problems"? Baloney. They're shipping millions of units and current lead time is 1-2 weeks from Apple.com - and they're in stock at most Apple stores.

If you want to talk about production problems, compare it to something like the Wii - which was impossible to find in stores even 2 years after the launch - even though sales had dropped off dramatically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

The new Imac: People who ordered custom build SSD imacs has waited 4-6 weeks and still not got the imacs

So? Somehow the inability of a supplier to get Apple enough SSDs means that Apple has failed without Jobs? You're delusional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

no macmini refresh for a year

How does this indicate a failure? The mini was never state of the art and was always a low-end entry level machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

no macbook air refresh almost a year

February 2011 is 'almost a year' ago? Wow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

no macbook refresh almost a year
no macpro refresh over a year. New intel CPUs released 2 month ago. MacPro usually got newest CPU a couple of month before official release.
Ipod classic not updated for almost 2 years. There are hard drives that could enable a 320gig model.
Time capsule has not been updated for years. 3 terra disk available.

Obviously low priority products or Apple doesn't see the value in updating them. How does the fact that Apple has not updated a few products in a few months indicate that Apple is failing?.

The bottom line is that Apple continues to do extremely well. They're leading the entire industry not only in profitability and market cap, but also continue to provide the leadership that everyone else wants to follow.

It really amazes me how people will actively look for evidence to support what is, essentially, a stupid thesis (that Apple is failing since Jobs isn't there).
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post #99 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by min_t View Post

what would be the benefit of downgrading to Snow Leopard?

Seriously? Where have you been hiding the last 3 months? Ever here of Rosetta?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davida View Post

If there is no built-in Rosetta, and you can't buy it from the app store, then a lot of people will be frustrated to find that they have data they need in some old app, and they can't get to it.

An example: say you need to calculate tax basis for some stock purchased several years ago, and you want to find out exactly when you bought it and for how much. An easy search in Quicken. Until you find out you can't use it anymore.

Certainly Apple could pay for maintaining Rosetta if they sold it on the app store. They would also avoid many pissed off customers who only find out they need it after migration to Lion.

While I think it's a mistake for Apple to dump Rosetta at this time (eventually yes, but just seems to soon to me), it's an ever bigger mistake how they are handling it. Lion is only weeks away and Apple has said nothing about the loss of Rosetta. The only people who even know about it are the small percentage of people who read Apple blogs and news sites. Apple needs to be upfront and clearly communicate this change to any potential upgrader before they purchase Lion and install it. It will be a very rude awakening when people find out the hard way that they can't run some of their software.

They need to create and release some sort of Can I Upgrade utility to check the person's computer for PPC software so they know what they will lose if they upgrade. They did too good of a job with Rosetta making it nearly impossible for the average user to know they are even running PPC software. With Classic it was obvious if your software was OS 9 software. They should have demoted Rosetta in Lion and made it somewhat inconvenient/obvious to run PPC software. A nag-ware type prompt or something to warm the user they are running deprecated software that will soon be unsupported in the next OS version.

I think there are going to be a lot of surprised people who find they have software that no longer works. But Apple doesn't seem to care. Welcome to the new Apple.
post #100 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

USB 3.0 drives are available today from pretty much any place that sells computer peripherals. Prices are only slightly higher than USB 2.0 ones. Thunderbolt peripherals, hmmm, still waiting to see one and expecting it to cost $$$$$.

Intel is supposed to be including USB 3.0 support in their Ivy Bridge chipsets. Thus new Mac models introduced in 2012 should support USB 3.0.

While you're right that Thunderbolt peripherals will likely be considerably more expensive than their USB 3.0 counterparts (just like FW peripherals were vs. USB 2.0), a simple fix is a USB 3.0 hub that should cost <$30 and should give 4 USB 3.0 ports that go into 1 Thunderbolt port.
MBA 13" i7/4GB/256GB

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post #101 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post

I don't know if Quicken is "outdated software". It runs on my Mac today. I hate them for not updating their app but unfortunately I have years of Quicken data. I might have to look into migrating my Quicken data to Windows version of Quicken just in case anything happens to my Mac.

I refuse to give Intuit any more money. They've been writing too much crapware - for both Macs and Windows, although their Mac software is much worse. I'm looking at alternatives that run on Macs. I wasn't happy with previous versions, but they're supposed to have gotten better. From what I've read, iBank, SEE Finance, and Moneydance are the ones most likely to suit me.

All of them claim to be able to import your Quicken history, but I haven't tested them yet.
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post #102 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbansprawl View Post

I second this, except for when my fingers stick to the pad and I wish I had a mouse. Needs to be a bit more silky smooth.

Lay off the cheetohs and french fries, dude.
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post #103 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multimedia View Post

Me too. I'm a heavy iPad 2 user and just ordered my first Magic Trackpad from B&H this morning for use with my Mac Pro and Kensington Turbo Mouse I've been using since 1985.

I've been using a Magic Trackpad at work since it was released, no more cramps from using a mouse. Love it.
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post #104 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

Seriously? Where have you been hiding the last 3 months? Ever here of Rosetta?



While I think it's a mistake for Apple to dump Rosetta at this time (eventually yes, but just seems to soon to me), it's an ever bigger mistake how they are handling it. Lion is only weeks away and Apple has said nothing about the loss of Rosetta. The only people who even know about it are the small percentage of people who read Apple blogs and news sites. Apple needs to be upfront and clearly communicate this change to any potential upgrader before they purchase Lion and install it. It will be a very rude awakening when people find out the hard way that they can't run some of their software.

They need to create and release some sort of Can I Upgrade utility to check the person's computer for PPC software so they know what they will lose if they upgrade. They did too good of a job with Rosetta making it nearly impossible for the average user to know they are even running PPC software. With Classic it was obvious if your software was OS 9 software. They should have demoted Rosetta in Lion and made it somewhat inconvenient/obvious to run PPC software. A nag-ware type prompt or something to warm the user they are running deprecated software that will soon be unsupported in the next OS version.

I think there are going to be a lot of surprised people who find they have software that no longer works. But Apple doesn't seem to care. Welcome to the new Apple.

I believe Apple switched to Intel in 2004is that correct?which makes Rosetta technology about seven years old now. If you're a designer and you've been using CS2 (can't remember if CS2 is Rosetta or full-on Intel-enabled), dude, it's time to move forward. If you're concerned that your printer and/or scanner or other peripheral won't work, it's really up to the manufacturer to upgrade their drivers, and most good ones are doing a pretty good job of staying on top of things in that regard. If the manufacturer of your particular printer has not updated their software in six or seven years, it's time to seriously think of switching to a brand that's a little more caught up with the times.

I'm fairly certain that peripheral makers and driver developers are aware that Apple is moving forward with Lion. If they refuse to move forward as well, then that's their (and their customers') problem, not Apple's. It's not Apple's responsibility to accommodate those manufacturers and developers who are dragging their feet.

I'm also fairly certain that pretty much any software you've purchased in the last four years is for Intel-based Macs only, and is hence, post-Rosetta. Software developers who want to keep their customers need to provide post-PPC upgrade paths for their software. It's the developers' responsibility to stay up-to-date. Again, it's not Apple's responsibility to wait around for stragglers.
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post #105 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

I believe Apple switched to Intel in 2004

2006...

Quote:
I'm also fairly certain that pretty much any software you've purchased in the last four years is for Intel-based Macs only, and is hence, post-Rosetta.

Or Universal Binary, but yes.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #106 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

I've been using a Magic Trackpad at work since it was released, no more cramps from using a mouse. Love it.

Has anyone played Starcraft 2 on a trackpad? I've tried and it's not gone well. I find a mouse is much better/easier. Unless or until Blizzard comes out with a multi-touch patch for their games.
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post #107 of 134
http://www.apple.com/icloud/what-is.html

As I said, iCloud for anything, coming this Fall. It won't be visible or enabled in Lion next month. It will arrive with iOS 5, since that's it's greatest purpose anyway.
post #108 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

2006...

Right. Thanks.
Quote:
Or Universal Binary, but yes.

Also thanks!
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post #109 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

Lay off the cheetohs and french fries, dude.

Haha, I'll keep that in mind!

But in my case Tokyo gets hot and sticky and even on my MBA trackpad sometimes my sparkling clean fingers start to drag. Yeah...we're not really supposed to use AC too much this summer either ^^; (fear of power outages)
post #110 of 134
Hi,

Can anybody explain the benefits of Lion to me?

As far as I can see, it would turn my iMac into a 24" iPad - but without a touch screen.

And I believe it's lost iSync - so no more synching my Nokia phone.

Really - what's the point?

Mr Puzzled
post #111 of 134
I think most likely situation is Apple withholding introducing a totally new mac to coincide with OS X Lion.
You know, the one that appears as a patent application before... The all new iMac that can recline for finger-base operation and stand up for normal mouse/keyboard combination.

That's why pumped up.
post #112 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

I'm pretty sure that for Lion and iCloud they said July.

No, they said fall, and the website says fall.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

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post #113 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

I'm sorry, I know I'm going to be tagged as overly pessimistic here, but Lion is not nearly as revolutionary as previous OS X upgrades have been. Delaying hardware releases out of convenience for customers so they don't need to download it makes sense. Especially since in the past they'd just slip an upgrade disk into the box before shipping it, and now there are no upgrade disks.

Delaying the hardware because they are locking it into Lion so you can't downgrade to Snow Leopard is the more likely reason.

Actually, that is a very astute observation. Locking the hardware to Lion is very likely part of the strategy. And I've been criticised repeatedly for saying that there's nothing really fantastic about Lion, but at least you agree too. Also, seeing Craig Federighi (spelling?) struggling with the multi-touch gestures during the WWDC demo was just... somewhat disturbing. Yes, he was probably nervous, but still...

Anyways, I'll hold off on Lion for a few months, unless I get bored and just upgrade anyway. But I will definitely try to wait to see the initial reviews and what bugs crop up. In any case my Internet connection may not be good enough to do a presumably un-resumeable (like Xcode 4) 4+GB download (ie. it might take several tries over several days especially if it keeps timing out).
post #114 of 134
Lion is schmick. It's my favorite OS X ever, and not just because it's newest (I don't believe newer is always better), but because it's *polished*. It's like, they spent 10.0 to 10.5 adding major features to catch up with their competitors, 10.6 to improve performance, and 10.7 is where they get to have some fun.
post #115 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL View Post

No, they said fall, and the website says fall.

Lion July, iCloud Fall.

Repeat 10 times after me...

Lion comes spritely in July,
Oh Apple please don't lie...
iCloud comes brightly in Fall,
Oh Apple please don't drop the ball.
post #116 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

Has anyone played Starcraft 2 on a trackpad?

You should get an award just for trying.
post #117 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

You should get an award just for trying.

HAHAHA!! Right. Exactly.
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post #118 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No model of computer can run an earlier version of software than the first version with which that model was shipped.

Just plain false.

It's largely true for Macs (although it is sometimes possible to hack them to run earlier versions), but it is completely false for Windows, Linux, and other operating systems that are not tied so tightly to the OS. I can buy a brand new computer and install Windows XP on it without any difficulty (might have to spend some time looking for drivers, but that's it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by aiolos View Post

While you're right that Thunderbolt peripherals will likely be considerably more expensive than their USB 3.0 counterparts (just like FW peripherals were vs. USB 2.0), a simple fix is a USB 3.0 hub that should cost <$30 and should give 4 USB 3.0 ports that go into 1 Thunderbolt port.

First, many peripherals will have both USB 3 and Thunderbolt ports, so how do you conclude that it's going to cost more to use Thunderbolt?

Second, add in the cost of your USB hub - which isn't needed with Thunderbolt and some of the cost difference goes away.

Finally, Thunderbolt is much faster, so there's a tradeoff - even if you were correct about the cost.
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post #119 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Just plain false.

It's largely true for Macs (although it is sometimes possible to hack them to run earlier versions), but it is completely false for Windows, Linux, and other operating systems that are not tied so tightly to the OS. I can buy a brand new computer and install Windows XP on it without any difficulty (might have to spend some time looking for drivers, but that's it).

Yeah, I know. We're talking about Macs here. This is a Mac forum. I realize out of context my post could be ambiguous, but as I'm directly responding to someone talking about installing an earlier version of OS X on their Mac, it's implied.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #120 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

Fine for consumers maybe, but for business/government not so much.

Rarely does the professional market jump into a new OS as soon as it is released. Sorting out compatibility problems is just one reason among many that a new OS isn't instantly deployed.

That being said, as popular as OS X based computers are in various professional fields, from a percentage standpoint they are making up a smaller and smaller number of OS X hardware sales. If past history is any indication, this means Apple will start caring about them less and less. If Apple holds hardware back for an OS release and then the professional market cuts back orders for awhile, I doubt Apple cares much.

-kpluck

The entire "Cloud" idea might be "nice" for consumers, but it is stupid for businesses. Read the fine print of the service contract. Companies that offer "cloud" services state that they are not responsible for any corruption/loss of data. The end user also surrenders ultimate ownership and control of the data to the Cloud owners. Federal/State/Local governments may also be restricted by laws that state that government data must reside on government servers. No Cloud for them!

Apple is too busy with consumer handheld devices to care about the enterprise. Apple got rid of XServe. Is the Cloud supposed to replace the Xserve and the concept of having Apple products in the server room. If not, then are businesses expected to continue to use Microsoft servers for file and print. OD is crap. Anyone who has used both OD and AD know what I mean. It would be ideal if Apple could merge OD into Apple Remote Desktop and also release an updated version of Xserve. Exchange is an unpredictable, bloated piece of garbage. Sadly, Apple has zero interest in competing with Exchange. Apple should kill Exchange by offering a free, robust, feature-filled e-mail server. Does Apple want to kick Microsoft out of the server room, or not?\

*****By the way, does anyone know how I can delete my accounts from AppleInsider? Emailing the admin (Jambo) triggers ZERO response. Thank you.
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