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What would your perfect death be like?

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by devolved

If I was ever to choose an assisted suicide as my way off this mortal coil, I always imagined it would have been somewhere near the end.

This video is interesting - it is so calm and surreal, but there is something dark and calculating about it that makes it troubling to watch.

Anyway - sooner or later we may be faced with a decision like this mans.

Strangely enough his last wish is for water, which is refused. His last wish (and words) were denied.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=23c_1308260561

(Quoted text is from another forum)

Haven't watched the video, would probably be too disturbing. I imagine mine being on a boat with a select few that closely share and support my spiritual beliefs. I would then take some sort of sedative/lethal injection. I'm attached to a weight, we are over a really deep part of the sea. As I climb overboard and let myself sink fast and deep into the ocean and the lethal injection starts to kick in. I get to rest deep in the earth (well, sea) and know that my body will be recycled and returned to nature over the years. Hopefully the lethal injection takes full effect before the sensation of drowning. If not, well, it will be too late then anyway... Though I hear drowning is horrible.

I have been practising a little before I go to sleep or while lightly meditating sometimes. I hold my breath, and imagine I'm sinking deep into the ocean. I don't hold my breath for too long (don't want any premature asphyxiation) but when I breathe in again it feels like... LIFE. Surprisingly this calms me down a bit.

My original assisted suicide fantasy even as a kid was to skydive out a plane without a parachute. But after my first real scuba diving experience a few months ago, the sea is the best place to return to nature. The deep, deep sea.
post #2 of 25
If I was terminal I'd like to go out on a high side at laguna seca on a repsol honda.
post #3 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

If I was terminal I'd like to go out on a high side at laguna seca on a repsol honda.

A glorious albeit painful way to go.
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post #4 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

If I was terminal I'd like to go out on a high side at laguna seca on a repsol honda.

Great, and leave someone to pick up the pieces and wash the blood stains off the pavement...

Typical.
post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Great, and leave someone to pick up the pieces and wash the blood stains off the pavement...

Typical.

Now now, let's give him the benefit of the doubt and assume FloorJack would've made appropriate financial and other arrangements with the Laguna Seca office.
post #6 of 25
Tonton is displaying his ignorance again aka posting a reply.
post #7 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

If I was terminal I'd like to go out on a high side at laguna seca on a repsol honda.

To die in my sleep with no pain in my own bed at home.
post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Haven't watched the video, would probably be too disturbing.

There is some gurgling going on but there are worse ways to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Hopefully the lethal injection takes full effect before the sensation of drowning. If not, well, it will be too late then anyway... Though I hear drowning is horrible.

I'd always try to choose something with a backup plan. Drowning wouldn't be a nice way to go out and you might frighten a diver one day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

My original assisted suicide fantasy even as a kid was to skydive out a plane without a parachute. But after my first real scuba diving experience a few months ago, the sea is the best place to return to nature. The deep, deep sea.

Plus you can survive a parachute drop:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-survived.html

I'd probably like to go out taking part in an experiment like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR0f8n10DR4

Just feel the intense rush of speed and then nothing. In the event that a multi-million dollar jet aircraft experiment isn't at hand, I'd probably go the tried and tested route of a bullet to the head so that I could donate organs at least. That's not completely assured either though - google for "failed shotgun suicide" or "connie culp" - it's quite impressive how the human body can survive so much trauma. I guess that's what a couple of billion years of evolution buys you.

As for the meaning of it all, I doubt there's something beyond the life that we have here. Everything that you know and understand is a result of your sensory input and interpretation of it (which stems from genetic and external influence). Everything we have grown to accept can be wiped out by a single instantaneous event. In the video above, you can see how such a long life can be extinguished within seconds - does that make life worthless or invaluable?

When you see things like the genocide in Rwanda that wiped out hundreds of thousands of people (some estimates border on a million) in a matter of months, it seems like a life has no worth. When you bury a friend or relative, you treat them just like you would a pet. You drop them in a hole and walk away.

This is a fate common to all of us. It's hard to accept such an empty existence so people like to guess at alternatives but it doesn't matter. We're all part of the same game regardless. No matter the hand you are dealt, whether you fold too soon or hold out until the natural end, your hand is accounted for - an infant might die of starvation in poverty and be forgotten and someone else might influence millions of people over decades. Their lives are equally insignificant in the big picture because they are all just dots of volatile information. We keep information alive with repetition but it's only there to maintain survival and the enjoyment thereof - it's a zero-sum game with no winners.

The best you can do is to live a life that makes you happy. It's the only assured positive outcome we have. The way you achieve it is irrelevant - you might dream of a life beyond, you might adapt to love the life you have, you can work to earn the life you want - the effect is the same. If you live a discontented life, then checking out early is a likely outcome and there's nothing wrong with it IMO if you are dealt a bad hand. I wish more people were open-minded enough to accept this and prevent suffering that can easily be avoided.

After all, it's just a ride.
post #9 of 25
As for ignorance, a wise man once said that we all display a certain amount of it each time we speak, but those who choose not to speak, generally have much more of it to hide.
post #10 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

After all, it's just a ride.

Very interesting.

And yeah, you can survive a parachute drop, gunshot and falling from a building.

I'd like to donate my organs but that means you have to be close to civilisation and the "authorities" which makes any assisted/unassisted suicide a bit more tricky.

Jumping in front of a train apparently is quite effective but I don't want anything where my body is left to be found in some mangled, disturbingly semi-recognisable state. Too traumatic for family members.

Also I obviously don't want to endanger others. Which rules out jumping from buildings. Also lacks a bit of dignity.

I reckon going down a few hundred metres under the sea, still dropping like a rock with no conceivable way to get any air or come up to the surface seems pretty foolproof. That's on top of if the lethal injection fails for whatever reason. Additionally, the rapid increase in pressure would probably disorientate and numb you already so if the sensation of drowning may be less worse... But if you're determined to end it what's a little pain. More important would be that you don't accidentally survive. I'd say this plan has several layers of backup. LOL I'm such a perfectionist and dreamer at the same time. I even imagine we are wearing white robes and there is a dish with yellow flowers on the boat. No specific symbolism, just the image that pops to mind.
post #11 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I'd probably like to go out taking part in an experiment like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR0f8n10DR4

That would be cool. Literally "Ashes to Ashes, Dust to Dust".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

As for the meaning of it all, I doubt there's something beyond the life that we have here.

Au contraire (and this is where I disagree with you) ... once you experience "it", you will "know" what's beyond this so-called life. Yes, I'm being cryptic, but I don't want to derail the thread too much at this stage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Everything we have grown to accept can be wiped out by a single instantaneous event. In the video above, you can see how such a long life can be extinguished within seconds - does that make life worthless or invaluable?

It makes this life... a very temporary thing. Then again, I have a multiverse-related theory where you never die, your consciousness just shifts universes to the universe where you didn't die. For example, say you are in a car crash, at that point there are a many universes which unfold, some of which where you die, some of which where you survive. I wonder if it is possible that your consciousness naturally shifts to the universe where you survive. Whereas, in other universes where you die, well, you just die. Other people survive and remain in that previous universe, and that's why we observe different people living and dying, while we ourselves may live forever if we keep shifting to universes where we live forever. Just a theory for now. It covers things like accidents and diseases but what if you were very old? You'd just keep getting older and older? Or could you then jump to another universe where, I don't know, you exist only digitally, as energy, etc...

Ah, the age old questions of existence.
post #12 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

To die in my sleep with no pain in my own bed at home.

Very peaceful. But just curious, if you die while dreaming do you just drop into a further dream state kinda like Inception?

Hundreds of thousands of years of human evolution, thousands of years of civilisation, centuries of science, and we all still have virtually ZERO friggin clue what happens when we die.

Something is amiss.
post #13 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Very peaceful. But just curious, if you die while dreaming do you just drop into a further dream state kinda like Inception?

Hundreds of thousands of years of human evolution, thousands of years of civilisation, centuries of science, and we all still have virtually ZERO friggin clue what happens when we die.

Something is amiss.

Well, all the evidence says you just die. Period.
The electrons quit flowing through you brain and it's just over. There IS nothing else. There are plenty of people who argue that point, but there's no evidence to support their claims and nothing can be proven without actually dieing... So....


As for me? ... I'd like to die an old man... Killed by the jealous husband/boyfriend/father of a young woman!
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post #14 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

once you experience "it", you will "know" what's beyond this so-called life.

I have a multiverse-related theory where you never die, your consciousness just shifts universes to the universe where you didn't die.

Jet Li has a similar theory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiFZM4huHi0

I suspect you mean infinite possibilities are played out but they can't really because it would require creating an entire universe for every choice, which would suggest the entire sequence of all events would have to mapped out in full. I'd hate to be the guy who had that job, there would be about 50 more universes every time your girlfriend finally decides on which dress and shoes to put on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

I wonder if it is possible that your consciousness naturally shifts to the universe where you survive.

if you die while dreaming do you just drop into a further dream state kinda like Inception?

This assumes (sub)consciousness exists independently from the body but it relies on the neuron patterns formed in your brain tissue - it has to otherwise it can't generate imagery from your own sensory input.

If you think of everything in 3 categories: information storage, information exchange and information processing it puts them on a very common level. Most things you interact with are in the category of information storage - configurations of molecules/energy. The interaction you make is information exchange - light from the sun hits objects and parts of the light spectrum are absorbed and the rest is exchanged into your sensory input. Your interpretation is information processing which combines the exchanged information with the information storage in your brain tissue - it matches the received light you observe to an association you had previously defined by repeated information exchange and determines shape and colour - children don't instinctively have this stored association.

This process defines our emotions, our thoughts, our beliefs and ideas so if everything metaphysical has a physical dependence then it must also be physical and subject to the existence of the physical processes that sustain it, or to put it succinctly, I am therefore I think.

The only way to ensure continued existence outside of your own physical being is to create a store of information that people want to repeat. That's why we remember Newton, Einstein, Edison, The Beatles, Elvis, JFK, RFK, MLK etc - they formed/strengthened information people still want to repeat. The people who didn't, have their voices silenced by the dampening effects of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Hundreds of thousands of years of human evolution, thousands of years of civilisation, centuries of science, and we all still have virtually ZERO friggin clue what happens when we die.

Something is amiss.

There is an assurance with a physical dependence that only the physical can influence what we know.
post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

Well, all the evidence says you just die. Period.

There are numerous accounts of ghosts and other "spiritual," paranormal occurrences. So the evidence would seem to say that one does not "just die." You may choose to ignore ghost stories because they don't fit-in to your science, but to me this is basically the same as the Vatican ignoring Heliocentricism. There is probably something out there.
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post #16 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

As for ignorance, a wise man once said that we all display a certain amount of it each time we speak, but those who choose not to speak, generally have much more of it to hide.

Is this a Chinese saying?
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Is this a Chinese saying?

Nope.
post #18 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

You may choose to ignore ghost stories because they don't fit-in to your science

It's not that they don't fit, there's just no verifiable evidence - 'numerous accounts' aren't good enough. If they were, then we'd also accept accounts from 20 or so eyewitnesses and several doctors that JFK was shot from the front instead of ballistics and video evidence that says he was not.

This is probably why we invent so many theories about there being something else out there. If we can't trust what we see, then what we describe as 'real' has no more importance than what we describe as fantasy. A real friend has no more importance than a virtual one on Facebook.

Some see that as a dangerous way of thinking as it is clearly a route to diminish responsibility for your actions such as shooting your parents in the head:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,87414,00.html

However, when these things happen as part of everyday life such as the story of the doctor who was beaten beyond recognition, his wife and youngest daughter raped and all three burned alive:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...h-Winfrey.html

such as the story of the mother stabbed in the neck by a drug addict who later hung himself and she ended up paralysed from the neck down:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ye-poetry.html

such as the model/TV presenter who had acid thrown in her face after being raped:

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/notw...tie-Piper.html

and countless other stories, you question what is the point of it all anyway. It seems chaotic.

You have anti-social louts who get rich while contributing nothing to society:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-millions.html

thieves living in luxury for decades:

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...less-criminal-

people who are paid to protect the public endanger them:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/no...convicted-rape

people who control and ruin the financial services we all depend on are unaccountable:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/po...6908-22911144/

No one can look at all this and see a meaningful, purposeful system in which the only order is the one we choose to follow. Some people will then dismiss it and dream of fairer alternatives, others will accept it as all there is and either drop out or try to find happiness in what they can but we will all keep asking the same question: Why?

Why is there something rather than nothing? No one will ever find the answer because in a zero-sum game, the answer is zero. You can't know happiness without knowing suffering, success without failure, love without rejection, comfort without fear, calm without anger, wealth without poverty, life without death. A system under these rules has no meaning, it's just a balanced displacement from nothing.

All we can do is try to reach the positive states but when we reach them, we would be pretending if we thought there was something profound in it. We are merely overcoming adversity that has no reason to be there.
post #19 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

There are numerous accounts of ghosts and other "spiritual," paranormal occurrences. So the evidence would seem to say that one does not "just die." You may choose to ignore ghost stories because they don't fit-in to your science, but to me this is basically the same as the Vatican ignoring Heliocentricism. There is probably something out there.

No evidence ... (hearsay and anecdotes are not evidence.)

But we DO have evidence ... controlled studies... that find that the human brain can create such stuff on it's own... and these internal creations can be greatly enhanced through the use of certain chemicals...

So there's still no EVIDENCE to support anything other than "you just die."
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post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

It's not that they don't fit, there's just no verifiable evidence

What is evidence to you?
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post #21 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

What is evidence to you?

Something that has a reproducible element for an enquirer. If you tell me you can talk, your evidence if I question it is to talk to me. If you tell me you can talk to God, your evidence has to be to be to allow me to perform the same or be able to observe you talking in a way that backs up your assertion, otherwise, there's an event taking place that requires a different definition.

There are different categories of evidence of course and eyewitness testimony is admissible in court but it can't be verified by a 3rd party directly as the examination doesn't produce the same result.

When it comes to ghosts, the assertion is that someone has seen one or photographed one suggesting they interact with the visible spectrum of light, which should be reproducible. They also take on a recognisable form, almost always the characteristics at the point of death. Yet there is no physical material to replicate the bodily movements of the muscles or bone structure. There is no reason why the material they are formed from only occasionally interacts with visible light and the vast majority of the time doesn't. There's no reason why such occurrences happen so infrequently and so many times to people who need to sell a magazine or want their 15 minutes of fame.

Yeah, there are photographs that are circulated around such as the ones here:

http://paranormal.about.com/od/ghost...-Ghost-Photos/

and some have been verified by 'experts' just like the leaked Mac photos that come out every now and again are examined by 'Photoshop experts'. In none of the cases is there a way to reproduce what has been seen so they have to be fabrications or technical defects e.g fog on camera lenses, distortions caused by temperature, defects in the processing of old photographic film and so on.

There is of course footage of ghostly activity, which is hard to pass up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo8CP9Hhb58

but almost all of it has no substance. The scientific community will overturn everything the second that reproducible, verifiable evidence is presented but it never has been. The legions of believers will go away muttering 'well, I still believe it anyway' and 'I know what I saw' but it won't persuade a lowering of evidentiary standards.
post #22 of 25
"Strangely enough his last wish is for water, which is refused. His last wish (and words) were denied"

I wanted to comment on this. The "escort" who sits with the person while they are dying has probably done it dozens if not hundreds of times, and probably though experience has worked out things not to do... Giving a glass of water to a man who is about to slip into a deep drug induced coma might not be such a great idea. Literally seconds after requesting the water, he fell into unconsciousness. He would have dropped the glass, or the water would have gone down his windpipe, leading to fits of coughing etc. which could have been horrifying for his wife. Alternatively, he might have vomited up the water, which would have also meant vomiting up the drugs, and then he would be back where he started from. Therefore I think she probably did the right thing refusing the request for water.

As for my death, If I needed to kill myself due to e.g., terminal illness or merely being sick of life, I'd prefer to use a handgun, unfortunately I live in a country where such devices are impossible to obtain by law-abiding citizens, so I guess I'd have to try and obtain appropriate drugs of some kind.
post #23 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

As for ignorance, a wise man once said that we all display a certain amount of it each time we speak, but those who choose not to speak, generally have much more of it to hide.

I've heard it said this way:

"It is better to keep one's mouth closed and be thought a fool, or open it and remove all doubt."
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post #24 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Something that has a reproducible element for an enquirer. If you tell me you can talk, your evidence if I question it is to talk to me. If you tell me you can talk to God, your evidence has to be to be to allow me to perform the same or be able to observe you talking in a way that backs up your assertion, otherwise, there's an event taking place that requires a different definition.

There are different categories of evidence of course and eyewitness testimony is admissible in court but it can't be verified by a 3rd party directly as the examination doesn't produce the same result.

When it comes to ghosts, the assertion is that someone has seen one or photographed one suggesting they interact with the visible spectrum of light, which should be reproducible. They also take on a recognisable form, almost always the characteristics at the point of death. Yet there is no physical material to replicate the bodily movements of the muscles or bone structure. There is no reason why the material they are formed from only occasionally interacts with visible light and the vast majority of the time doesn't. There's no reason why such occurrences happen so infrequently and so many times to people who need to sell a magazine or want their 15 minutes of fame.

Yeah, there are photographs that are circulated around such as the ones here:

http://paranormal.about.com/od/ghost...-Ghost-Photos/

and some have been verified by 'experts' just like the leaked Mac photos that come out every now and again are examined by 'Photoshop experts'. In none of the cases is there a way to reproduce what has been seen so they have to be fabrications or technical defects e.g fog on camera lenses, distortions caused by temperature, defects in the processing of old photographic film and so on.

There is of course footage of ghostly activity, which is hard to pass up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo8CP9Hhb58

but almost all of it has no substance. The scientific community will overturn everything the second that reproducible, verifiable evidence is presented but it never has been. The legions of believers will go away muttering 'well, I still believe it anyway' and 'I know what I saw' but it won't persuade a lowering of evidentiary standards.

I believe that is a very sensible answer.
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post #25 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard View Post

"Strangely enough his last wish is for water, which is refused. His last wish (and words) were denied"

I wanted to comment on this. The "escort" who sits with the person while they are dying has probably done it dozens if not hundreds of times, and probably though experience has worked out things not to do... Giving a glass of water to a man who is about to slip into a deep drug induced coma might not be such a great idea. Literally seconds after requesting the water, he fell into unconsciousness. He would have dropped the glass, or the water would have gone down his windpipe, leading to fits of coughing etc. which could have been horrifying for his wife. Alternatively, he might have vomited up the water, which would have also meant vomiting up the drugs, and then he would be back where he started from. Therefore I think she probably did the right thing refusing the request for water.

As for my death, If I needed to kill myself due to e.g., terminal illness or merely being sick of life, I'd prefer to use a handgun, unfortunately I live in a country where such devices are impossible to obtain by law-abiding citizens, so I guess I'd have to try and obtain appropriate drugs of some kind.

Good point on the denial of water. Like I said, I don't dare yet to actually watch the video.

As for gunshot suicide, as Marvin mentions there's probably a chance of botching it. You could end up paralysed, a vegetable or maybe just part of your face blown off. And yeah, not to mention the difficulty of obtaining such weapons in most orderly countries.

As for drugs, it is interesting how much overdosing the body can handle. I'm no expert, just from what I've read here and there.
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