Apple releases Final Cut Pro X, Motion 5 and Compressor 4 on Mac App Store - Page 5

I may not be a pro editor, (this says it all) if you were actually an editor your comments would be different. Upgrades are not to take features away but to make life easy for our day to day task.
Clearly a move away from the Professional market to Prosumer/Education...AND NO I AM NOT A BIG
EDITING HOUSE..merely 3 editors who are disappointed with all the hype and no deliver
Avid & adobe are ecstatic!

As a professional, then identify yourself. Otherwise your comments are outright FUD.

Todays students are going to get FCPX now. They are tomorrows professionals. They cannot afford the investment to maintain the status quo.

That doesn't mean that today's crop of so-called 'Pro's' won't be obliterated just because they stayed with their current investment.

Why anybody would even attempt to transition an FCP6 or 7 to FCPX project is beyond me. As any real 'pro' would know, now is not the time to screw around with what is already working.

New projects yes. Until one is fully familiar with the new offering, switching horses in midstream and betting your career on it is just plain stupid.

And suggesting that current FCP6/7 Professionals are going to migrate to AVID and Adobe just because Apple created a new paradigm is equally stupid.

At $300 a pop, it is a no-brainer for the up and comers. Unless, of course, your dad is expecting you to take over the business. However, even he will appreciate the value of this offering in today's environment; technologically and economically, this latest offering, even if it is shy of what has been the standard, but combined with his years of artistic, creative and technological expertise could only promote continued success.

Yes, by all means, let's ditch hundreds of thousands of hours of archived material and go tapeless. If it wasn't' shot in the last six months, who the hell wants to look at it anyhow?

Tapeless is the way to go in the future, but it's going to be a long time before producers stop needing a way to integrate traditional formats into their work. In my mind, "pro" is synonymous with "options", and I think that's what a lot of people are upset at losing. Taking out multicam and adding face recognition or share to facebook isn't just a loss of features, it's a loss of focus on the product.

I'm mostly happy with what I've seen in FCP X so far. It handles AVCHD from my Canon 60D wonderfully, and I love love LOVE the new timeline features. But I found the project management setup to be a joke, and am upset that there are few options (there's that word again) for where FCP will now place various files. Menus that used to be full of customization now look like something out of iMovie. I'm definitely more of a prosumer than a professional user, so I can adapt somewhat easier, but I certainly understand the pain of people who fear this is going to become another iApp.

Reading these posts it seems like there is a disconnect with Apple fans and what editing professionals are trying to say.

For months there has been a huge anticipation buzz surrounding FCPX. I am one of the main Moderators and contributors over at Cinema5D.com. Professional editors and filmmakers have been talking about this release constantly. Then it arrived yesterday. To say the response from the professional community is NEGATIVE is putting it mildly. This is like a punch to the stomach.

Many of the pro level features are missing. Backwards compatibility with previous projects is missing. Mutli camera ability is missing. Being able to Save As is missing. The list is HUGE. The massive deal breaker for professional edit houses is how clunky FCPX is for multi station arenas. This is really iMovie Pro for single users. The other fact is that all of the existing pro titles have been discontinued. Apple really seems to have made it clear: they are getting out of the Pro applications business. Unless Apple fixes this mess in a hurry you will find a ton of pros will go to Adobe, Avid and alternative platforms.

Applications like FCP is why many media professionals invest in large expensive desktop systems like the Mac Pro. Professionals are concerned about this as well. If Apple kills the pro applications will the pro hardware be next? Walk into any Apple Store and odds are you will never even see Mac Pros on display. Its now all about the iCandy stuff now. Remember back in the darkest days for Apple it was the media and design professionals who really stayed with Apple and kept them afloat.

Make no mistake about: this move by Apple has shaken the professional community who invest in pro level Apple software and hardware. There are a lot of pro oriented forums filled with Apple fans and users who could not wait for this FCPX release. They now feel duped and shocked. Apple needs to address this as soon as possible. Waiting years is not an option as users were waiting for a major upgrade to the FCP suite already. Steve Jobs and Apple promised FCPX would be the next big thing. Its not! What comes next? The folks who spend the money on this stuff have been waiting for this release. Now that it is here many will be evaluating if it makes sense to go with Adobe, Avid, etc. There will be hardware choices as well.

In short Apple has alienated like 90% of editing and film making professionals in one day. This is a watershed moment, but of the really ominous kind. Hopefully Apple will pay attention and correct this direction...

Yeah, that guy is Randy Ubillos -- the guy who wrote FCP when it belonged to MacroMedia -- later sold to Apple and been with it ever since.

Final Cut Pro


I do believe he has more video editing chops than most posters to this forum, myself included.

Thought of another major bonus.

Reinstalled FCS at work today on a new computer. Took several hours.

Am at home now and downloaded FCPX. It took all of 7 minutes, and I didn't have to fiddle with seven discs.

(For the whole set I figure at 15 minutes.)

Yep. Downloaded and up and running all three apps in 15 minutes.

Well its certainly not the first time. Can we count the list of things Apple has done where people swore they were crazy and have doomed themselves to failure.

Shaking things up and pissing people off is exactly how Apple has gotten itself to where it is today.

Been on it from the beginning.

Can we hold on to this for future reference?

Here's one way to view this situation: Steve Jobs didn't sneak into anyone's facility last night and remove their FCP 6 or 7 installs. You can still do exactly what you have been doing with absolutely no change. You can also buy and install FCP X and start trying it out. This way you get both worlds and can wait to see how FCP X shakes out.

Personally I agree with those who say Apple is moving away from the hard core edit, color, finish world and is embracing the lower quality web/interactive market. That is okay. Those of us who need the missing features can wait to see if they arrive later or we can move to another brand of software.

Everyone relax and have another cocktail.

Both Adobe and AVID offer fully functional 30 day trials.

Once again Apple looks to have taken 3 steps forward and 3 and a half back. It's a very limited niche now, unless they make some changes. iMovie users might want to move up but many don't have to (I still fire up my old G4 for an old version of iMovie instead of the current one, but that's another story). A pro user isn't put off by a $1,300 price tag if it does the job and neither are they enticed by a $300 price if it doesn't.

I just can't see Apple shoring up their dwindling pro editing presence with this release. There are lots of hobbyists who can plunk down $300, and that's who they've targeted.

One of the biggest problems they face is that AVID, while they seem to be holding pretty steady from what I see in editing suites and also as the audio standard, having Digidesign so omnipresent in audio studios, they've screwed up their new mid range audio offerings pretty badly. Lots of bugs, hardware issues and lack of support except for their user forums. Apple can't sell FCPX to users who were on the fence but decided to get a Windows computer and Cakewalk/Sonar because of that, and those are exactly who Apple needs.

I think AVID is turning this huge mid range portion of potential Mac buyers away from committing to it as a platform, and they were exactly where the features/price of this landed. If I were big into conspiracy theories... : )

Ya' know...

I am not a "pro" editor -- and never will be!

So you "pros" feel free to ignore the words of one who has less training, experience and qualification than you.


But, I do want to tell "stories": using words, pictures, audio, video and effects -- whatever is available.


My first attempt at doing this was some years ago with an early version of QuickTime and SMIL -- anyone remember that? Anyway, with QuickTime/SMIL I was able to put together "stories" with a series of pictures, sounds and effects.

Later, iMovie came on the scene and I had another tool to help me tell "stories" even better.

But, I still used QuickTime -- and even a little SMIL, now and then.

Over the years, I acquired newer, more powerful, versions of iMovie as well as ever more capable computers, cameras and audio equipment.

At some point, I wanted to include things in my "stories" that were beyond the capabilities of iMovie, QuickTime and other tools I had acquired. I looked longingly at Final Cut (Pro) but couldn't justify the cost.

Then FC Express was released and I bought this inexpensive new tool to help me tell "stories" even better.

Later, Apple offered a cross-grade to full FCP that I couldn't resist.

I have been an FCS user ever since (and yes, it is a bitch to install on an new computer).

I have invested more money in FCP training and plugins than in the FCP product suite itself. These include things such:
-- Silhouette Rotoscoping
-- Karaoke - synched titling - follow the bouncing ball

I really got into Motion to create "stories" with [animation of] still images, sounds and effects -- basically the 2011 edition of my decades old QuickTime/SMIL effort.


Yesterday I bought FCPX and the Motion [upgrade].


I still use QuickTime!

I still use iMovie!

I still use Final Cut Studio!

I still use PhotoShop, Pages (yes, Pages) for some things I can't do with the other tools.


I suspect that I will gradually replace most of my FCS and iMovie work with FCPX -- especialy as the FCPX product matures.


So why am I writing about this?

1) My goal is to tell "stories" with AV!

2) Over the years I've acquired various "tools" that help me attain that goal!

3) FCPX is just another tool in my tool-bag.


Shouldn't FCPX be viewed as just another tool in the "storyteller's" tool-bag -- be he amateur or pro?

+++ QFT

Where do you live? Cocktail? It's 11 AM here

Can you link to any supporting evidence that their pro editing presence is dwindling?

No, he can't since the opposite is true - FCP has been growing in pro usage over the last few years as pretty much everyone knows and has been touted on so many high profile television and feature film productions.

Well, perhaps until the release of this monstrosity...

I am starting a personal campaign to bring back the three Martini lunch. I'm in Austin so the clock says drink.

What if in the long term FCP becomes more popular than ever because Apple took the risk of totally reinventing how an NLE works? What if Apple actually has a grand vision that we do not yet know about?

This is the way Apple has garnered such success in other parts of the electronics industry. They were willing to take a risk in doing things differently from how everyone else is doing it. That risk turned out to be the right direction and many people are willing to get on board.

The transition at times can be a little painful and confusing because Apple never fully reveals what its long term plans are. Some people jump on board immediately - others cautiously wait to see where things are headed.

Thus far Apple has had a stellar track record with this way of creating its products.

In the end its competitors scramble to recreate the direction that Apple has gone within various ways.

BTW wasn't there talk last year about some big upheaval within the FCP team at Apple? Something about they bit off more than they could chew and had to scale back, some people were fired etc, etc. Seems like this release could be a manifestation of that turmoil. They just couldn't get it all done and decided to release what was ready. They got the cutting and metadata parts in there, but everything else just isn't done yet.

Just a thought.

Apple does not dictate how films are made and completed. They have failed to meet industry standards with this release. While FCP is a wonderful piece of software, it certainly didn't alter the way post was done for film (regardless of what some may think) since they were relatively late to the NLE game.

I'm not sure where you felt I was saying that Apple dictates how films are completed.

Do you not believe its possible to introduce a radically different tools that works better than the previous tools that people are used to?

This is an interesting perspective from two video pro's.

They bring up some interesting points. They made some good points about questions that have not been answered by Apple. I felt they made some "the sky is falling" predictions simply based on the fact that they don't know what Apple is going to do.

Parts of their complaints are simply complaining because FCP X will force them to do things differently from what they are used to. They even acknowledge that FCP X will likely make editing much easier than it is today.

http://library.creativecow.net/harri...iscardi/FCPX/1

I bought Steve Martin's tutorial on FCPX.

Apple Pro Video Series: Final Cut Pro X

Steve is well respected and I have found him to be an excellent teacher.

For anyone who is unsure about FCPX, this is an excellent preso of the pluses and minuses on FCPX vs FCS -- as well as a detail tour of how to use the system.

I've only finished a few lessons, but based on experience with Ripple and Steve Martin -- this is $40 very well spent.

I suspect that many FCPX nay-sayers would be well served by watching this tutorial -- and amazed at what FCPX can do in the hands of an expert --- with a clear sense of his objective in mind.

Yes, of course, there is always room for change. However, at this juncture where HD digital has started to really be accepted there are processes in place that have been developed over the last decade and are an ingrained part of the workflow, accepted by those in the industry.

The (current) inability to conform to those standards by FCPX does not make it a viable product for the professional industry who REQUIRE those tools to deliver films for color grading and post sound. Given the absence of those tools and the complete lack of any alternative provided by Apple, it becomes something purely useful for experienced amateurs or pros who wish only to conform picture with no intent of distributing product for domestic and international delivery standards.

I don't disagree with this assessment of where FCP X stands as it is.

What is my broader point is that there is complaint about these missing features as though it is not possible for Apple to ever add them in. We've seen this play out with Apple's other products. People complain about this or that.

Eventually Apple matures the product into a leader in its category. Seeing this pattern people still exhaust energy in complaining - repeating the cycle.

One hopes that you are correct in this. It's not as though I was planning on just dumping FCP7 yesterday for an untried piece of software, but having purchased FCPX with the understanding that it was the replacement for FCP7 (which was pulled from the Apple site yesterday) I was surprised that it lacked those tools 'out of the box', so to speak, since they have been an integral part of FCP for some time now.

I think many of us also took it hard because so many in the industry are unabashed Apple fanboys who have come to expect miraculous things (okay, not always immediately, agreed) from the company that this seemed a major letdown. Of course, I own it now and will certainly give it a chance when I hear that they have made some improvements. In the meantime, back to work on FCP7....

From an amateur's perspective.

I often use iMovie-created files within FCP and vice-versa.

There are some significant advantages to each tool.


1) Wouldn't it be possible to use a $300 tool (FCPX) to create a clip, or series of clips, that could be processed by FCS -- to compensate for those features not yet implemented in FCPX?

This is a serious question -- I sometimes use other tools such as Photoshop, Motion, Pages, iMovie, Silhouette, etc. -- that can do parts of a project easier, simpler, faster, cheaper, better than FCP.

From what I've seen of FCPX, so far -- it has some significant advantages and can do some things that it is just not practical to do in FCP.

2) Is it reasonable to ignore the potential benefits of FCPX just because it is not a superset of FCP?

You can run them both at the same time!

The clear way to look the situation. Is that this is not FCP 8 as a direct lineage of code from FCP 1.0 - 1999. This is FCP X 1.0 - 2011.


I can agree that Apple has left the industry at large with a a completely known timeline of the future of FCP X. Those who want to stick with FCP can wait and see what Apple does. I think its fair for those who need more assurance in the future of their software may begin to look for other solutions.

Odd, I just got updates to FCPX and [the new] Motion through Software Update -- not through the App store.

I haven't dl'd it and will stick with v 7 for a while until things shake down.

I thought I'd head over to the Cow to see what the reviews were like - well holy sheeeit check this out.
Never thought I'd read anything like this ever from Walter http://library.creativecow.net/artic...alter/FCPX.php
<shakes head>

It looks like Apple has removed all comments about Final Cut Pro X on the App Store.

The pro video community that Apple has had has been hedging their bets for years, some would say since the debacle with Compressor a decade ago. Apple has sold a lot of FCP no question, and most houses have FCP suites as well as other formats. And if you're talking about the creative independent world Apple is doing well, and even most editors I know here in NYC who specialize in another format have picked up FCP and learned it as a tool to increase their worth. But not all professional editing is Mac by far, and not all pro Mac editing is FCP.

But the entire spectrum of video post- network news, syndicated shows, sports, major special events- it's not the same story. FCP dominates the midrange Mac niche, but "FCP has been growing in pro usage over the last few years as pretty much everyone knows and has been touted on so many high profile television and feature film productions" is half good penetration and half great PR. This version of FCPX will unfortunately leave much in the way of openings for the other options. In fact, AVID is already jumping all over it with advice on how to switch over if FCPX is missing features you need.

I'm a registered Apple apologist, but Apple has put out a very useful and affordable tool for video work. But if you don't think they've been slipping in the pro arena even as they've been selling more units you're an armchair quarterback. Go buy some trade mags and read up,

Hold on there...I knew it was built from the ground up and not compatible with FCP, but it can't communicate with the other Apple Pro apps? You can't assign the audio tracks for stems? No true video output? What we see is always a preview, you can't switch from that to true video output? No OMF or XML export OR IMPORT? (I dont but I have friends who LIVE on OMF and XML importing and exporting.)

Wow...Just wow...

Thanks for the link, Rob.

And mstrat, I also noticed the comments were removed from the app store : (

They did leave this,though : (

App store shows 251 reviews when I look at Final Cut.

Yep, they seem to be back now. But those comments! Brutal : (

And I have never seen such a response in any of the Apple app Discussions after an update.

https://discussions.apple.com/commun...inal_cut_pro_x

They've basically handed over the pro video editing on a Mac to AVID.

There's a lot of naiveté amongst editors. Many complained about how FCP was getting long in the tooth and in danger of being left behind. Many wanted native editing of more codecs and 64-bit support.

Few understood, even at a basic level, the amount of work required to rewrite FCP in cocoa and support 64-bit and modern codecs.

Is FCPX ready now? No. Is it now based on a modern codebase that will allow Apple to iterate versions more quickly? Yes.

$400 for what costed a grand before. I think FCP maintains marketshare and even grows.

TenoBell, I think you're misinterpreting their issues with it. They acknowledge it makes the basic act of editing easier for anyone, but they're saying that the removal or lack of presence of so many key functions means that pros cannot use it the way they need to, not as they'd like to. To imply that they could work with it at the level it forces them to implies that they should be happy being a prosumer edit house doing wedding videos instead of a professional one doing feature films.

You cannot take certain capabilities out of a pro studio's set up and not replace them with something else. There is no "sky is falling" predictions when you don't have months or years to find out if plugins will be supported. If a client needs plugins they will go where they can use them. If Apple isn't talking, the pros won't wait around. Personally, the lack of audio routing, unless I'm misinterpreting it, is a stupifying dealkiller no matter how easy it is to create a home movie.

This is all true enough, and God knows I share the dismay at how limited the new FCP is, but a lot of the discussion about market share seems predicted on the idea that everyone has to either chose to upgrade to FCPX now or abandon the platform.

That, of course, is simply untrue, and it seems unlikely that some significant number of FCP post houses are abruptly going to jump ship just because this version of Final Cut doesn't cut it. As others have noted, no one's copy of FCP 7 is suddenly going to be rendered useless.

Now, 6 months from now if Apple hasn't made demonstrated some trend towards adding back key pieces of functionality, or at least made some kind of public statement regarding their intentions, then I could see people starting to plan ahead for a post Apple future. But I think it's too soon to just declare that Apple has abandoned the pro and that therefore everyone must burn their copies of Final Cut immediately and get with their next NLE.

I would say that in 6 months, if Apple has not DELIVERED the missing functionality people will begin a real exodus. They have a limited window here since FCP 7 was already behind Media Composer and Premiere in several areas.

Yes I do understand that. And acknowledged it. At the same time they went way out on the line with assumptions based on what they do not know.


The "sky is falling" predictions come from people not really being clear on exactly where Apple is going to go with FCP X. So they just make up stuff to fill in the gap.

The only choice is to wait to see what Apple does - or move on to a different NLE that you feel suits your needs better.