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With release of Final Cut Pro X, Apple discontinues Express and Server - Page 2

post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by netiquette View Post

This is great for digital video. Express and Server editions were dead weight. Now Final Cut Pro will be able to take digital video to the next level by focusing on their core product.

FC Server is only dead weight if you don't need it. For situations where multiple editors use multiple systems, and require easy access to a large pool of media assets, it (or something like it) is a necessity.

Express was also not dead weight. It's fine for on-the-run cuts, or segment editing. FCExpress projects open right into FCPro 7, and fall right into a sequence.

So, with Server gone, I'll have no way to manage a pool of close to 60,000 assets in a consistent manner so that producers and editors can manage ongoing productions with any degree of efficiency. And, I'll have wasted about $50,000 in hardware and software, and over a year of my life putting it all together -- not to mention the cost training and certification.

This could spell the end of Final Cut in our organization. Much as I hate it, Avid's solutions are looking pretty darned good right now.
post #42 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Hawkeye_ View Post

What was the price of the now discontinued Final Cut Express? Looks like it might have been $199.

I can see Apple concentrating on just a single product, rather than two. But for low-end users, they now have to pony up another $100 more actually, because Final Cut Express could be found discounted, previously. So effectively, the cost has doubled for low-end users.

iMovie '11, believe it or not, now does as much or more than Express -- and it only costs $15. And, the UI and usage is quite similar to FC Pro X.
post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeWordIsTaco View Post

FCPX apparently:

- does not open FC Studio project files
- Does open iMovie files
- does not use FCP plugins
- does not have Multicam
- does not import from tape, save for some Firewire gear.
- is shiny

I am all for progress, but so far this is hard to take.

It's been stated elsewhere that this is not a final release -- there are a lot of things that Apple has indicated are "coming soon." I would hope that multi-cam would be one of those things.

I'm not at all thrilled about the inability to open files from previous versions of Final Cut Pro. However, I can also understand the technical hurdle that would have been involved. FCP did some pretty kludgy things, and it looks like Apple have wisely decided to throw away some less-than-ideal code.

Apple have also indicated that import from tape is forthcoming. The specifically mention support of Blackmagic, AJA and Targa products (though they don't specify which products).

Note that opening of iMovie files is limited to iMovie '11.
post #44 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gm7Cadd9 View Post

I think a lot of you guys don't get the enterprise world. Just because something works doesn't mean it passes audit!

I know you can use the same AppleID on all computers, but according the license you can't do that for a business. Each bay has an individual copy. $299 per bay is still cheap compared to what we pay for Media Composer, but even so... managing this is crazy.

We can't just give out the AppleID, and then change the password, all app updates are through the app store, which requires AppleID and password. Having an AppleID for each bay is just as crazy. Also, business prefer to work with PO's not Credit Cards. Try deploying this to 20 edit bays and tell me it's not a headache? I can spend probably $500 on my CC and no one will bat an eyelash but I have to imagine Finance wouldn't be happy to see $6,000 on my AMEX. If it's over $500 it needs a PO.

Sorry to bore you creative types with the business world, App store distribution allows Apple to reach far more users, but I fear it is at the expense of the pro users.

You think corporate is crazy. You oughta try working in higher education! I have no idea how we're going to do business now. We have a hard enough time as it is, as our department is split between academic and commercial usage. Licensing for us is a major nightmare!
post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gm7Cadd9 View Post

I don't mind buying individual licenses for each edit bay I have, what I do mind is having to manage AppleID's for each bay. Let me buy a volume license!

Sigh...

http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new...US_version.pdf

If you don't know who your Apple business sales rep is, find out and talk to them. Or your favorite authorized reseller.
post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerenm63 View Post

You think corporate is crazy. You oughta try working in higher education! I have no idea how we're going to do business now. We have a hard enough time as it is, as our department is split between academic and commercial usage. Licensing for us is a major nightmare!

I'm envious of you in education, you have a solution:

http://www.apple.com/itunes/education/

Find your Apple rep and start talking to them!

Also, an excellent blog even if he's across the pond:

http://speirs.org/
post #47 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerenm63 View Post

So, with Server gone, I'll have no way to manage a pool of close to 60,000 assets in a consistent manner so that producers and editors can manage ongoing productions with any degree of efficiency.

I'm curious - the app has been out less than 24 hours and Apple indicates they eliminated server because the functionality is now native to the app. Have you validated you have an issue, or are you running with "reviews" or comments on a product that has been out less than 24 hours?
post #48 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerenm63 View Post

Apple have also indicated that import from tape is forthcoming. The specifically mention support of Blackmagic, AJA and Targa products (though they don't specify which products).

AJA already has some Final Cut Pro X stuff: http://www.aja.com/pdf/FCP_X_and_AJA.pdf

I wish people would wait more than 24 hours before declaring the end of the world is here
post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerenm63 View Post

iMovie '11, believe it or not, now does as much or more than Express -- and it only costs $15. And, the UI and usage is quite similar to FC Pro X.

Hmmm, I've been using FCE for many years and have tried a few times to 'revert' to the new iMovie - hate it, just hate it. If FCX is like the new iMovie we'll pass. The fact it can't open FCE files is an even bigger killer - I have so much time invested in projects in FCE I'm simply not willing to give it up. I was really hoping for a new FCE - I'm disappointed - and I really hate the fact I can't get a demo.

I have no objection to buying through the app store, but I do want a demo.
post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeWordIsTaco View Post

FCPX apparently:

- does not open FC Studio project files
- Does open iMovie files
- does not use FCP plugins
- does not have Multicam
- does not import from tape, save for some Firewire gear.
- is shiny

I am all for progress, but so far this is hard to take.

According to those who have had some advance info from Apple, expect solutions for most/all of these issues in the near future. Except for the shiny part. It stays.

Delivery through App Store, by the way, allows for shorter upgrade/update cycles; don't expect the old 18-24 month wait between significant updates.
post #51 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Just because something works for someone's home computer doesn't mean it's going to scale well to companies with hundreds of employees. But some people just can't see past their own single computer in their living room.

And some others don't seem to have noticed that Apple has policies/procedures in place for enterprise customers. They should be announced shortly for FCPX, just as they already have been for Lion and iOS apps.
post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveH View Post

And some others don't seem to have noticed that Apple has policies/procedures in place for enterprise customers. They should be announced shortly for FCPX, just as they already have been for Lion and iOS apps.


Lion hasn't shipped yet, and they posted the info on how to upgrade. About 4 people on this board have all assumed I haven't read the PDF document. I think most people are missing the point.

Apple posted the Lion upgrade info prior to shipping Lion. Apple released FCP X with no documentation or even a hint other than what people logically ASSUME will happen (which is something similar to the Lion PDF).

I am sure it's safe to assume there will be a path outside of AppleID/App Store, but this is just one among many trespasses that is further upsetting the business/enterprise world. I am a Systems Engineer for a publicly traded company, and while I have lots of control and influence, I can be overruled at any time by someone higher than me.

When we needed Fibre Channel speeds to desktop Macs without a fully fledged SAN we looked to Xserve and Xserve RAID. What became of those 2 products? GONE with little warning. We are looking for a DAM/MAM solution, I have constantly pitched FCServer as an asset manager/approval process tool. GONE, no warning.

Some functionality has been included in the new Final Cut Pro, but FCServer was a cross-platform DAM/MAM. It was likely unpopular, like the Xserve, which is why it was discontinued. That might be fine if they gave a roadmap, but the level of secrecy doesn't bode well in the enterprise world.

I get having the secrecy with iPhone/iPad etc... but is that secrecy REALLY necessary to a market of 30,000 business customers?
post #53 of 58
Actually FCP X does import video from tape, so that part is not true. Even though very few new cameras over the past couple years record to tape anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeWordIsTaco View Post

FCPX apparently:

- does not open FC Studio project files
- Does open iMovie files
- does not use FCP plugins
- does not have Multicam
- does not import from tape, save for some Firewire gear.
- is shiny

I am all for progress, but so far this is hard to take.
post #54 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Actually FCP X does import video from tape, so that part is not true. Even though very few new cameras over the past couple years record to tape anymore.

Limited to firewire, or AJA/Blackmagic controls. I am sure those 3rd party tools will eventually become more robust, but I don't like the spreading of misinformation.

Our workflow relies on tape decks, not a DV camcorder. We need machine control from the edit bay to the machine room. Furthermore we sometimes layoff to tape.

THIS is what we need to see from the "log and capture" window that doesn't exist anymore.



Look, I am a huge Apple fan, shareholder, iPad/iPhone/iMac/MacBook Pro/AppleTV owner. I defend Apple all the time... I am just saying in this particular case they have upset the Pro market, there's no need to assume that because of this misstep I am all of a sudden an Apple hater.

The people defending FCP X aren't taking measures to understand why the people are complaining in the first place, they are just seemingly blindly defending Apple.
post #55 of 58
I hear what you are saying.

The method of transferring from tape is an entirely matter from saying that it is not capable of transferring from tape at all.

But honestly if you look at the method of how Apple develops most of its products. They have a history of stripping new products down to the basics and incrementally adding features over time.

I suppose in the mean time everyone will have to decide what works best for them in the long run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gm7Cadd9 View Post

Limited to firewire, or AJA/Blackmagic controls. I am sure those 3rd party tools will eventually become more robust, but I don't like the spreading of misinformation.
post #56 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

If we look to where the puck is going.............

Its moving away from DVD distribution to web downloads and streaming. I guarantee few will question excluding DVD authoring from FCP.

except for Hollywood, which sells DVDs by the millions. And **used to** use FCP.

Apple needs to take the Pro off Final Cut now, they cut out 1/2 of what fulltime production shops need.
post #57 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gm7Cadd9 View Post

I don't mind buying individual licenses for each edit bay I have, what I do mind is having to manage AppleID's for each bay. Let me buy a volume license!

Everyone so far is saying: you can install it on any computer with the app store signed in to your account. This is all well and good for the guy who has a laptop and desktop at his home who freelances as an editor... but what about production companies, edit houses that are FCP based? No roadmap? Not even on launch?

As the Creative Cow's review puts it, this is not a Pro app yet. So when they're done with everything it needs, they'll probably solve the licensing as well.

It's a shame that Apple has to start from the scratch and run in the same problems as with iMovie 09 that had half of the features of the previous version when launched. I would expect a complete product, no matter how different to previous approach. This release only streghtens the old feeling of not being a real Pro when using the FCP environment.
post #58 of 58
No one in Hollywood uses DVD Studio Pro to author DVD's. There are whole departments within the studios that handle DVD authoring.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sandor View Post

except for Hollywood, which sells DVDs by the millions. And **used to** use FCP.
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