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Apple's iPhone is top-seller at 58% of AT&T, Verizon stores - Page 2

post #41 of 106
[QUOTE=solipsism;1887727
From the way I see it, it's the natural order of things. It's like a drought in everglades. Alligators will dig holes down to the water line which will become pools from which other animals drink. Without the alligators these other animals would have fewer numbers. Apple has done this with the iPhone. If not Android some other phone OS would have taken up the back and bottom of the cell market to fill that hole.[/QUOTE]

Now that is funny. Great analogy.
post #42 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryV View Post

Is iPod Touch a phone??? Is iPad a phone??? Try to stick to SMARTPHONES ecosystems... you know iPhone, iPhone3G, iPhone3gs, iPhone4. When the iPad and iPod can be classified as a phone, you welcome to add them.

Why?? What does platform have togo with making phone calls. Platform is about attracting third party developers...

It really does not matter what devices you count, iOS developers make more money off the iPhone 3GS then android developers do off all Android devices (phone/non phone) combined. Until Android finds away to attract and keep developers, the size of their platform is irrelevant.

Toss in the fact that fragmentation is still a growing problem, manufacturers are still making new phones that will never run 2.2.

Why do you think this market share, limited to just phones and spread accross 5 different versions of Android OS is relevant? How does it matter? What benefit does it provide? Who does it help?

Google has fumbled the platform so badly, the current marketshare is meaningless. I know they are trying to reign it back in, but who knows if they will get the genie back into the bottle.
post #43 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph L View Post

I've not seen that stat. Can you show it?

It's sarcasm - mocking the fact that people here don't know facts. It's just about passion. That's all right. Not everyone has to be intelligent.
post #44 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

I understand you're stumped. But I am not. By doing quarter to quarter, year to year comparisons, you can make some conjectures about trends. Can I be 100% sure that HTC's increasing profits and revenues are due mostly to smartphones? No. But if you study the data and their financial reports, only an idiot and a recalcitrant Apple zealot would say the conclusion is pretty compelling.

If you keep arguing the point, then explain to me how you say say how much of Apple's profits are from iPhone. Maybe they lose money on iPhones and make it up by selling T-shirts. Intelligence is a good tool. Use it if you have it.

Your smarmy comment aside, we know exactly how much profit Apple makes from the iPhone product because they post it… every… single… quarter. Tell us how much profit HTC makes from Android 'OS'?
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post #45 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

If you keep arguing the point, then explain to me how you say say how much of Apple's profits are from iPhone. Maybe they lose money on iPhones and make it up by selling T-shirts. Intelligence is a good tool. Use it if you have it.

Apple reports the revenue per devision so you know where the profits are coming from and it is not T-Shirts. HTC does not report the individual profits of its three major platforms it sells: WinMo, Android and WP7. Android does make up the lions share of the unit sales of these three but we do not know the profits each one brings in. My guess is profit from each handset is a bit more on WP7/WinMo and slightly lower per handset on Android due to much higher competition on the Android handset market.

Profit wise, HTC is the real lone shinning star in the Android eco-system though they have been unable to grow their profit share in any meaningful way in 4 years.
post #46 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryV View Post

A year ago, and with the 3GS no less, you would have been called crazy to have said that a SINGLE Android phone was outselling the iPhone in 31% of AT&T stores. 100% complete loon. And it goes to show you that Android growth is actually accelerating... was outselling the iPhone by 2:1 and now is outselling it by close to 3:1... Android growth is simply amazing...

I think it goes to show how well a year-old phone which will be replaced soon can stand against the onslaught of new Android phones but that's just me.
post #47 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apple has done this with the iPhone. If not Android some other phone OS would have taken up the back and bottom of the cell market to drink from the hole Apple created.

And, no matter how great the iPhone is, its very difficult to compete with free or near-free.

If you want the latest iPhone model, you're going to pay $199 minimum.

If you want the latest (released within the last 4-5 months) Android model, you can get a great selection of *much* cheaper alternatives. Hell, T Mobile is selling the Samsung Galaxy S 4g online for free right now along with a whole series of other really good Android devices.

AT&T is selling a refurbed Atrix for $49.99.
post #48 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryV View Post

Is iPod Touch a phone??? Is iPad a phone??? Try to stick to SMARTPHONES ecosystems... you know iPhone, iPhone3G, iPhone3gs, iPhone4. When the iPad and iPod can be classified as a phone, you welcome to add them.

Why, yes, they are quite capable of making phone calls. The iPod touch doesn't have that wonderful option of transferring $100 per month to a politically connected, legacy cellphone carrier. Whenever you have a wifi connection you can use Skype, among many options, for making phone calls on the iPod touch and iPad.

Most owners of iPhones and similar devices use telephony only a small fraction of the time. The specially designed internet connected computer is the main attraction of iOS and that is present in all three of the mobile platforms. AppleTV is another iOS device that is not mobile but seems quite likely to broaden the base of the iOS ecosystem. Android isn't in this broader and deeper game yet (ever?) because they don't have the equivalent of the cellphone carriers to prop them up. This may seem obscure or mysterious to consumers but developers have no problem reading the actual numbers.
post #49 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Your smarmy comment aside, we know exactly how much profit Apple makes from the iPhone product because they post it every single quarter. Tell us how much profit HTC makes from Android 'OS'?

LOL! I can just see this guy... flipping through every page he can find to see if that data is available.

He can't find it... we know that... and now he has to come back with more of his smarmy comments and bullshit.
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post #50 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

LOL! I can just see this guy... flipping through every page he can find to see if that data is available.

He can't find it... we know that... and now he has to come back with more of his smarmy comments and bullshit.

"Crap, there's no way I can answer his question. Better project what I've been doing for the past five minutes on to him and make fun of him for it!"

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I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #51 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

Let me get this out of the way: I believe that something on the order of 80% of all Android sales are not because the user wants an Android, but could not get an iPhone.

Exactly. Everyone I know who owns an Android phone bought it only because the iPhone was not available on their carrier.
post #52 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesTheLesser View Post

And, no matter how great the iPhone is, its very difficult to compete with free or near-free.

If you want the latest iPhone model, you're going to pay $199 minimum.

If you want the latest (released within the last 4-5 months) Android model, you can get a great selection of *much* cheaper alternatives. Hell, T Mobile is selling the Samsung Galaxy S 4g online for free right now along with a whole series of other really good Android devices.

AT&T is selling a refurbed Atrix for $49.99.

And the iPhone was going for $25 last December. There are always deals for those willing to wait a month or look around.
post #53 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Slink away? Talk about premature ejac.

You're not making a good impression of Android users.....
post #54 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

And the iPhone was going for $25 last December. There are always deals for those willing to wait a month or look around.

I think you're talking about the Radio Shack promotion? That's the only iPhone 4 promotion I can think of, and it was limited to a week, if I recall correctly...and it was contingent on you selling back your old model.

Unless we're talking about different things.

Listen, I'm not disparaging Android. My point is that you can get really, *really*, good deals on them that you're almost never going to find on the iPhone....to the point where it can even temp a dedicated iOS user like myself.

That the iPhone is competing as well as it is, is pretty astounding to me.
post #55 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Your smarmy comment aside, we know exactly how much profit Apple makes from the iPhone product because they post it… every… single… quarter. Tell us how much profit HTC makes from Android 'OS'?

I challenge you to show me where Apple post their iphone profit ... every ... single ... quarter.

In their 10-Q, they mention overall profits, as well as net sales for key products (iphone, ipad, etc.) and no ... mention ... of ... profits .... from ... iPhone. So, no, you do NOT know exactly or even roughly how much profit Apple makes from iphones.

If you can show me where Apple officially mentions their iphone profits, I will apologize.

If you can't, you apologize.

Or, are you going to "quietly slink away"?

BTW, smarmy does not mean what you think it does. So check off English 101 as well when you go sign up for a course in accounting at the local community college.
post #56 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

I challenge you to show me where Apple post their iphone profit ... every ... single ... quarter.

In their 10-Q, they mention overall profits, as well as net sales for key products (iphone, ipad, etc.) and no ... mention ... of ... profits .... from ... iPhone. So, no, you do NOT know exactly or even roughly how much profit Apple makes from iphones.

If you can show me where Apple officially mentions their iphone products, I will apologize.

If you can't, you apologize.

Or, are you going to "quietly slink away"?

BTW, smarmy does not mean what you think it does. So check off English 101 as well when you go sign up for a course in accounting at the local community college.

You are laughable... I can tell you roughly how much they make on iPhones because Apple gives you their gross margin percentage - 41.4%... and even an idiot can infer that the iPhone, because of its high proportion of net sales, must be making, plus or minus 5%, close to that figure of 41.4%... unless you want to tell me that iPhone only makes 20% margin and Macs and iPads make roughly 72% margin.

(oh... and just to let you know... I didn't see anything in there about t-shirts... but if you can find them please let me know, I want to buy one)
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post #57 of 106
OK, time for the new iPhone.

Fix the antenna problem.........

And make the iPhone lighter (get rid of the glass, go to plastic/aluminum, anything lighter).
post #58 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

You are laughable... I can tell you roughly how much they make on iPhones because Apple gives you their gross margin percentage - 41.4%... and even an idiot can infer that the iPhone, because of its high proportion of net sales, must be making, plus or minus 5%, close to that figure of 41.4%... unless you want to tell me that iPhone only makes 20% margin and Macs and iPads make roughly 72% margin.

(oh... and just to let you know... I didn't see anything in there about t-shirts... but if you can find them please let me know, I want to buy one)

First of all, Sloppyism wrote that he knew "exactly" how much profit Apple makes off iphones because "they post it every year". Since he's seriously wrong on both counts, your defense of him (or are you the same person) is off the mark.

Second, did you take economics or accounting? If you did, you'd know that gross margin does not translate directly to how much profit you truly make off something. Furthermore, if you actually read Apple's 10-Q, you'd know that even your method estimate of the gross margin of the iphone alone is totally unreliable.

Please, if you only read headlines and press releases, are you really qualified to laugh at those who spend time learning the detailed facts?

Ignorance is really not worth showing off. Really not.
post #59 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

First of all, Sloppyism wrote that he knew "exactly" how much profit Apple makes off iphones because "they post it every year". Since he's seriously wrong on both counts, your defense of him (or are you the same person) is off the mark.

Second, did you take economics or accounting? If you did, you'd know that gross margin does not translate directly to how much profit you truly make off something. Furthermore, if you actually read Apple's 10-Q, you'd know that even your method estimate of the gross margin of the iphone alone is totally unreliable.

Please, if you only read headlines and press releases, are you really qualified to laugh at those who spend time learning the detailed facts?

Ignorance is really not worth showing off. Really not.

You spend time learning the detailed facts??!! lolololololol

Reading comprehension isn't just for high school, it's for life... please remember that.

You asked for roughly and that's what I gave you.

Of course gross margin is unreliable... to an extent... and that is exactly why I use the word "infer".

Sorry... I missed the point where you told me that Macs and iPads and iPods must make oodles more than the iPhone in order to accommodate the gross margin figure. Why is that? Oh yeah... because you know you're full of shit.

[ and making fun of Solipsism's handle... how mature... I bet dollars to donuts that you rushed to your dictionary to see what it meant ]
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post #60 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

First of all, Sloppyism wrote that he knew "exactly" how much profit Apple makes off iphones because "they post it every year". Since he's seriously wrong on both counts, your defense of him (or are you the same person) is off the mark.

Second, did you take economics or accounting? If you did, you'd know that gross margin does not translate directly to how much profit you truly make off something. Furthermore, if you actually read Apple's 10-Q, you'd know that even your method estimate of the gross margin of the iphone alone is totally unreliable.

Please, if you only read headlines and press releases, are you really qualified to laugh at those who spend time learning the detailed facts?

Ignorance is really not worth showing off. Really not.

http://www.macstories.net/news/apple...on-ipads-sold/

This doesn't give you the exact amount of profit from iphones but enough data to get a really good estimate. Also, since pretty much every damn analyst known to man states that Apple makes the majority of all handset profits, I'm not sure wth you are arguing. And finally, you must not read this blog that often because they run multiple stories running up to the quarterly earnings call.
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post #61 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

First of all, Sloppyism wrote that he knew "exactly" how much profit Apple makes off iphones because "they post it every year". Since he's seriously wrong on both counts, your defense of him (or are you the same person) is off the mark.

Second, did you take economics or accounting? If you did, you'd know that gross margin does not translate directly to how much profit you truly make off something. Furthermore, if you actually read Apple's 10-Q, you'd know that even your method estimate of the gross margin of the iphone alone is totally unreliable.

Please, if you only read headlines and press releases, are you really qualified to laugh at those who spend time learning the detailed facts?

Ignorance is really not worth showing off. Really not.

Up to a point you were amusing. Now you are just immature and argumentative without a basis in facts that would support your argument. And when asked for facts you deflect. If you have something intelligent to offer put it on the table alongside your badly tarnished speculation to see if your command of facts makes up for your deplorable writing and conduct in this thread. Otherwise you hang on the edge of the *ignore* abyss down which so many have plumented...

For example, did you know that Microsoft gets $5 for every HTC phone running Android (according to Citi analyst Walter Pritchard). With Google offering the Android OS for "free" to the handset makers the cost per Android phone for the handset makers just jumped considerably. Why, you ask? It is a patent settlement with HTC over intellectual property infringement suit Microsoft filed over multi-touch. Redmond also is suing other Android phone makers, and it’s looking for $7.50 to $12.50 per device, according to Pritchard.

This means that Microsoft is making more money off Android than they are off of Windows handsets (currently), and the formerly free Android OS is now costing HTC a tidy sum. And their earning report didn't reflect this settlement - that hits next quarter I believe.

See? Facts: easy to use simple to type and much shinier and attractive than unfounded and erroneous speculation.
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post #62 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

First of all, Sloppyism wrote that he knew "exactly" how much profit Apple makes off iphones because "they post it every year". Since he's seriously wrong on both counts, your defense of him (or are you the same person) is off the mark.

Second, did you take economics or accounting? If you did, you'd know that gross margin does not translate directly to how much profit you truly make off something. Furthermore, if you actually read Apple's 10-Q, you'd know that even your method estimate of the gross margin of the iphone alone is totally unreliable.

Please, if you only read headlines and press releases, are you really qualified to laugh at those who spend time learning the detailed facts?

Ignorance is really not worth showing off. Really not.

Apple tells you exactly how many units of iPhones they sell (btw, not 'shipped') every quarter. It's right there in every 10Q filing.

Based upon the gross margin information, as island hermit suggests, one can quite easily infer the operating margin within a fairly tight error band (since allocating the SG&A is not rocket science). One can then be conservative and take just the min of that error band -- and frankly, you probably know this, but are just being a jerk -- to conclude that the rest of the industry doesn't come close.

Going back to your original post, you still haven't shown us a link to audited sales numbers for a single Android handset maker. Why don't you do that first. Until then, it's mere posturing and ad hominems from your end.

Don't slink away..... yet....
post #63 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryV View Post

Is iPod Touch a phone??? Is iPad a phone??? Try to stick to SMARTPHONES ecosystems... you know iPhone, iPhone3G, iPhone3gs, iPhone4. When the iPad and iPod can be classified as a phone, you welcome to add them.

Why? Either what matters is device share or what matters is platform share. The only reason to care about Android as a platform is because of 'ecosystem' considerations. But it's actually a smaller ecosystem than iOS, in fact it's so fragmented that it's effectively tiny.

Consider this from today

Hulu Plus has followed Netflix down the Android path today with the announcement that its service is now available on six devices, starting with the Google Nexus One and Nexus S, Motorola Droid 2, Droid X, and Atrix, and the Inspire 4G from HTC.

When developers are releasing products a tiny subset of specific models like this, then your platform isn't a platform in any meaningful way.
post #64 of 106
I agree - stop being a jerk, Stelligent. As you can see, good comments are always welcome but there's no need to insult people.

But Stelligent makes a good point - Just because AAPL makes a big chunk of the profit does not mean others are not making respectable profits. He seems to be quoting real references and not analyst estimates. I do find that credible. Still, being informed does not give you the right to be arrogant.

I'd be sad, however, if an Android phone beats out iphone as the top device. As someone who lined up for every iphone, I do hope their next iphone will make the droids look like scrap iron.

I am curious, does AAPL post every quarter what their iphone profits are? We have someone here (the jerk) saying not and we have another guy (who has gone silent) saying yes. I would love to know who's right about this. How about we get to the bottom of this intelligently and diplomatically, and cut out the "noise"?
post #65 of 106
Apple breaks out almost everything including iphones (the exceptions being appletv, airport express, time capsule, etc.) every quarter.
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post #66 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post

... Stelligent ... seems to be quoting real references and not analyst estimates. I do find that credible.

Honestly, I must have missed it with everything flying back and forth: he provided sales numbers of Android handsets for HTC and Samsung? If so, where?
post #67 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post

I am curious, does AAPL post every quarter what their iphone profits are? We have someone here (the jerk) saying not and we have another guy (who has gone silent) saying yes. I would love to know who's right about this. How about we get to the bottom of this intelligently and diplomatically, and cut out the "noise"?

See post #64 above.
post #68 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

It's sarcasm - mocking the fact that people here don't know facts. It's just about passion. That's all right. Not everyone has to be intelligent.

Actually the 2:1 iOS:Android claim isn't just made up.

200mil iOS devices were announced in the keynote at WWDC. - check the transcript if you don't believe me
100mil Android activations were announced by Google a month earlier/

It's obviously not exactly 2:1 because Amazon were probably at around 110mil in June, so 2:1.1, but close enough.
post #69 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

See post #64 above.

Thanks but ... Sorry, I don't see anything in #64 about iphone profits being posted. Can you quote it for me? Thanks!
post #70 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post

Thanks but ... Sorry, I don't see anything in #64 about iphone profits being posted. Can you quote it for me? Thanks!

Not profits, unit sales. Did you see the point then about gross margins being known (from teardowns), and then allocating SG&A?

Btw, stelligent's link you referred to......?
post #71 of 106
I just re-read the thread and I don't see any links or quotes from stelligent that were informative
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post #72 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post

He seems to be quoting real references and not analyst estimates.

Link... please.

(I do find it funny, actually... highly coincidental, that one guy disappears, Stelligent, and then all of a sudden you appear)
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post #73 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post

Up to a point you were amusing. Now you are just immature and argumentative without a basis in facts that would support your argument. And when asked for facts you deflect. If you have something intelligent to offer put it on the table alongside your badly tarnished speculation to see if your command of facts makes up for your deplorable writing and conduct in this thread. Otherwise you hang on the edge of the *ignore* abyss down which so many have plumented...

For example, did you know that Microsoft gets $5 for every HTC phone running Android (according to Citi analyst Walter Pritchard). With Google offering the Android OS for "free" to the handset makers the cost per Android phone for the handset makers just jumped considerably. Why, you ask? It is a patent settlement with HTC over intellectual property infringement suit Microsoft filed over multi-touch. Redmond also is suing other Android phone makers, and its looking for $7.50 to $12.50 per device, according to Pritchard.

This means that Microsoft is making more money off Android than they are off of Windows handsets (currently), and the formerly free Android OS is now costing HTC a tidy sum. And their earning report didn't reflect this settlement - that hits next quarter I believe.

See? Facts: easy to use simple to type and much shinier and attractive than unfounded and erroneous speculation.

And that is just the start.

Nokia, Oracle, and Apple are up next and Android may indeed be an expensive OS to ship before long, particularly when so few manufacturers were reporting significant profits in the first place.
post #74 of 106
I don't know if it has been brought up earlier (I did not read all of the comments, excuse me), but why didn't AI mention that they only compared this with 4G Android phones when they conducted this survey? It actually wasn't iOS vs Android, it was iOS vs 4G equipped Android Why the heck would they do that? Just compare it to Android and settle this debate once and for all
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post #75 of 106
It wasn't iOS vs. Android. It was what handset was the top seller. I didn't see the 4G criteria but I would suspect that difference was made because android 4G phones sell more than the less equipped ones.
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post #76 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

It wasn't iOS vs. Android. It was what handset was the top seller. I didn't see the 4G criteria but I would suspect that difference was made because android 4G phones sell more than the less equipped ones.

Ah. That makes more sense, thank you
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post #77 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairb View Post


IMO iPhone 5 will surge like all past releases, then lose big time to android. What apple need is a cheaper alternative.

That's if marketshare is the only metric you use.

Fun Fact: Apple had $6 BILLION in revenue last quarter... from a freaking cell phone.

3 months... 18 million iPhones sold.

Remember... Apple is the only company who sells iPhones... while "Android" is a collective term for many manufacturers selling phones running Google's Android OS.

Android will have more marketshare... but Apple will make more money. Any sane businessman will tell you which one is more important.

As much as I'd like to see more iPhones out in the street... Apple isn't exactly losing here...

Marketshare is only good for fanboys to argue about
post #78 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

That's if marketshare is the only metric you use.

Fun Fact: Apple had $6 BILLION in revenue last quarter... from a freaking cell phone.

3 months... 18 million iPhones sold.

Remember... Apple is the only company who sells iPhones... while "Android" is a collective term for many manufacturers selling phones running Google's Android OS.

Android will have more marketshare... but Apple will make more money. Any sane businessman will tell you which one is more important.

As much as I'd like to see more iPhones out in the street... Apple isn't exactly losing here...

Marketshare is only good for fanboys to argue about

To be fair, marketshare does matter somewhat. If it is too small, then developers have less incentive to make apps for the platform. I doubt Apple has to worry about that though. As long as they have a nice chunk of the high end (which is the sector that actually spends money on apps), Apple will be more than fine.
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post #79 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Intelligence is a good tool. Use it if you have it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

That's all right. Not everyone has to be intelligent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

So check off English 101 as well when you go sign up for a course in accounting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Ignorance is really not worth showing off. Really not.

In your humble opinion?
post #80 of 106
Funny thing is that he was right that HTC makes a profit. In fact, from what I've read, HTC and samsung are the only android handset makers that are. My own personal opinion though is that HTC makes a profit not because of android but because of their hardware.
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