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And yet another free-market theory failure - Page 5

post #161 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Show me where I " lied ".

Here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac

You were defining what the less fortunate need.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #162 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Here:

How was that a lie?



Here you are not only defining who's " less fortunate " you're deciding what they deserve :

Quote:
I'm also careful that I'm not simply assuming someone is less fortunate simply because they have less money or that simply having more money will be the key to additional well-being for them.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #163 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

How was that a lie?



Here you are not only defining who's " less fortunate " you're deciding what they deserve :




If that's how you interpret that statement...knock yourself out.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #164 of 338
Getting back to the topic...

The thread originator simplistically suggested that stock market indices were a useful manner in which to compare countries. A much more common one, as suggested by another poster, is GDP. More specifically per-capita GDP to adjust for population.

Let's look at that for a moment:

U.S. $46,300
Canada $38,700
Sweden $37,300
Denmark $37,200

The U.S. has a per-capita GDP 20% higher than the best of the so-called Social Democratic countries. Interestingly at about 1980 these four countries had similar per-capita GDPs (around $10,000 to $11,000).

Furthermore, comparing historical per-capita GDP data from this site it looks like this from 1980 to present:

Per-capita GDP growth (approximate):

1980 - 1992
US: 100%
Sweden: 82%
Canada: 73%
Denmark: 90%

1992 - 1998:
US: 25%
Sweden: 20%
Canada: 23%
Denmark: 32%

1998 - 2011
US: 53%
Sweden: 54%
Canada: 63%
Denmark: 44%

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #165 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Your ideas of what constitutes credentials and their importance in forming an opinion are not consistent with reality.

Your idea of reality isn't consistent with reality.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #166 of 338
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Getting back to the topic...

The thread originator simplistically suggested that stock market indices were a useful manner in which to compare countries. A much more common one, as suggested by another poster, is GDP. More specifically per-capita GDP to adjust for population.

Let's look at that for a moment:

U.S. $46,300
Canada $38,700
Sweden $37,300
Denmark $37,200

The U.S. has a per-capita GDP 20% higher than the best of the so-called Social Democratic countries. Interestingly at about 1980 these four countries had similar per-capita GDPs (around $10,000 to $11,000).

Furthermore, comparing historical per-capita GDP data from this site it looks like this from 1980 to present:

Per-capita GDP growth (approximate):

1980 - 1992
US: 100%
Sweden: 82%
Canada: 73%
Denmark: 90%

1992 - 1998:
US: 25%
Sweden: 20%
Canada: 23%
Denmark: 32%

1998 - 2011
US: 53%
Sweden: 54%
Canada: 63%
Denmark: 44%

GDP means nothing when you have a growing wealth gap. It shows no indication whatsoever of the typical and the minimal standard of living. The typical and minimal standards of living in every one of those countries mentioned here is better than it is in the US. If you're rich, and greedy, and not affected by crime or infrastructure problems, then the US is definitely the best place to live. If you're not rich, it's not.
post #167 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

GDP means nothing when you have a growing wealth gap. It shows no indication whatsoever of the typical and the minimal standard of living. The typical and minimal standards of living in every one of those countries mentioned here is better than it is in the US. If you're rich, and greedy, and not affected by crime or infrastructure problems, then the US is definitely the best place to live. If you're not rich, it's not.

What does this have to do with your original premise? So is the point now that they don't have better financial performance but no one should care because of claims related to equalization of their citizen's quality of life? Clarify this because you seem to be going back and forth on it.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #168 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

GDP means nothing when you have a growing wealth gap. It shows no indication whatsoever of the typical and the minimal standard of living.

It only "means nothing when you have a growing wealth gap" if a growing wealth gap means that a "minimal standard of living" is not being met. That isn't necessarily so. The so-called "wealth gap" or "income gap" can grow but everyone is still improving their lot in life (at least financially-speaking if you assuming having more money means better) or at least not taking steps backwards.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

The typical and minimal standards of living in every one of those countries mentioned here is better than it is in the US.

Would you kindly define, objectively and quantitatively this "minimal standard of living" so we can investigate your claims?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

If you're rich, and greedy

Those are different things?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

If you're not rich, it's not.

Well then I'll move to Sweden right away where the median household income is about 25% lower.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #169 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Your idea of reality isn't consistent with reality.

Your idea of my idea of reality isn't consistent with reality.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #170 of 338
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Well then I'll move to Sweden right away where the median household income is about 25% lower.

How about the 10th percentile? Is that lower too? In fact, just how much lower is the 10th percentile in the US than it is in Sweden?
post #171 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

If that's how you interpret that statement...knock yourself out.

I think it's pretty easy to see what you meant.
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #172 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Getting back to the topic...

The thread originator simplistically suggested that stock market indices were a useful manner in which to compare countries. A much more common one, as suggested by another poster, is GDP. More specifically per-capita GDP to adjust for population.

Let's look at that for a moment:

U.S. $46,300
Canada $38,700
Sweden $37,300
Denmark $37,200

The U.S. has a per-capita GDP 20% higher than the best of the so-called Social Democratic countries. Interestingly at about 1980 these four countries had similar per-capita GDPs (around $10,000 to $11,000).

Furthermore, comparing historical per-capita GDP data from this site it looks like this from 1980 to present:

Per-capita GDP growth (approximate):

1980 - 1992
US: 100%
Sweden: 82%
Canada: 73%
Denmark: 90%

1992 - 1998:
US: 25%
Sweden: 20%
Canada: 23%
Denmark: 32%

1998 - 2011
US: 53%
Sweden: 54%
Canada: 63%
Denmark: 44%

Quote:
Getting back to the topic...

We were on topic. Your attitude is the same as Cantor's.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #173 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Your idea of my idea of reality isn't consistent with reality.

Tell us how jazzy.
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post #174 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Tell us how jazzy.

It's quite obvious to anyone who is willing to open their eyes.

Or are you still playing in the sandbox?



Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #175 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Your idea of reality isn't consistent with reality.

Go ahead BR, he's sub-human and can't be in the discussion. Gas him, shoot him, do whatever you want to him because you're superior and he isn't even human.

/sarcasm

Really, thank goodness you don't know any person group who ever had their rights undermined or disregarded due to their religion.

/sarcasm off

Irony meter busted.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #176 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

It's quite obvious to anyone who is willing to open their eyes.

Or are you still playing in the sandbox?




Which eyes are those? Your subjective ones? I remember several politicians who were of the conservative rank who didn't deal with reality very well. Richard Nixon who thought he was above the law and sought to influence a presidential election by breaking and entering. Then there's Dubbya who was just sure people would totally buy the idea of WMD in Iraq ( which of course turned out to be false ). Dubbya who by the way since he was in charge for 8 years could have done something different to avert this most recent economic mess before it got bad.

And I play in the sandbox everytime I come here.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #177 of 338
If Ayn Rand and the Free Market Fetishists Were Right, We'd be Living in a Golden Age. Does This Look Like a Golden Age to You?

The lavish rewards flowing to the titans of industry have not exactly transformed society into a vibrant force for beneficial progress.

---snip---

Yet, while Rand and Friedman gave some intellectual heft to free-market theories, Ronald Reagan proved to be the perfect pied piper for guiding millions of working Americans in a happy dance toward their own serfdom.

In his first inaugural address, Reagan declared that government is the problem and many middle-class whites cheered.

However, what Reagans policies meant in practice was a sustained assault on the middle class: the busting of unions, the export of millions of decent-paying jobs, and the transfer of enormous wealth to the already rich. The tax rates for the wealthiest were slashed about in half. Greed was incentivized.

Robert Parry article HERE!

(Warning: liberal media content)
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #178 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Which eyes are those? Your subjective ones? I remember several politicians who were of the conservative rank who didn't deal with reality very well. Richard Nixon who thought he was above the law and sought to influence a presidential election by breaking and entering. Then there's Dubbya who was just sure people would totally buy the idea of WMD in Iraq ( which of course turned out to be false ). Dubbya who by the way since he was in charge for 8 years could have done something different to avert this most recent economic mess before it got bad.

And I play in the sandbox everytime I come here.

I'm not sure why you felt compelled to regurgitate your usual rhetoric concerning so-called "conservative" presidents. Modern conservatism is just as statist as modern liberalism.

You certainly will not find me defending much of anything they or any other presidents have done since Grover Cleveland, who I consider to be the last, great classical liberal president.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #179 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Which eyes are those? Your subjective ones? I remember several politicians who were of the conservative rank who didn't deal with reality very well. Richard Nixon who thought he was above the law and sought to influence a presidential election by breaking and entering. Then there's Dubbya who was just sure people would totally buy the idea of WMD in Iraq ( which of course turned out to be false ). Dubbya who by the way since he was in charge for 8 years could have done something different to avert this most recent economic mess before it got bad.

And I play in the sandbox everytime I come here.

The only thing Republicans could have done to help avert the crisis is deal with Fannie and Freddy and most of them aren't even conservative enough to deal with that now. There's also no way you'd ever support that because Fannie, Freddy and lack of lending standards "helps the poor" which means the blinders come on and the reasoning stops.

Richard Nixon was indeed wrong and resigned. Clinton was wrong and didn't resign. Bush had the same intelligence that any other president would have had and listened to those agencies. They are the same agencies that prompted the Clinton administration to declare that the United States ought to change the regime in Iraq. Finally, the proof in the pudding is watching folks like yourself defend Obama all these years. The blood and corruption, if there was any in the first place are on your hands more than any others because you declared it wrong and now stand silent and vote in more of the same when you've seen and been told about the lies.

Even if you believe Bush lied, at least he lied to someone about an action he requested authorization on. Obama is ignoring the war powers act and being sued because of it. Are you claiming the Democrats have some sort of moral high ground after keeping Gitmo open, extending the Patriot Act, extending tax cuts, spending trillions on crony capitalism and bailouts, extending wars, starting additional wars and doing nothing to truly help the economy?

Delusional indeed!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #180 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Yeah sure SDW!

A lot of what you do is this : So if that's lying and being intellectually dishonest you're acusing a lot of people here of lying ( in this thread and others ). But I'll just say what you always do " You're hilarious! "

And I'm saying...show me ONE example. I don't present intellectually dishonest arguments. Ever.
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post #181 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

How about the 10th percentile? Is that lower too? In fact, just how much lower is the 10th percentile in the US than it is in Sweden?

If you're curious, look it up. Tell us.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #182 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

The only thing Republicans could have done to help avert the crisis is deal with Fannie and Freddy and most of them aren't even conservative enough to deal with that now. There's also no way you'd ever support that because Fannie, Freddy and lack of lending standards "helps the poor" which means the blinders come on and the reasoning stops.

Richard Nixon was indeed wrong and resigned. Clinton was wrong and didn't resign. Bush had the same intelligence that any other president would have had and listened to those agencies. They are the same agencies that prompted the Clinton administration to declare that the United States ought to change the regime in Iraq. Finally, the proof in the pudding is watching folks like yourself defend Obama all these years. The blood and corruption, if there was any in the first place are on your hands more than any others because you declared it wrong and now stand silent and vote in more of the same when you've seen and been told about the lies.

Even if you believe Bush lied, at least he lied to someone about an action he requested authorization on. Obama is ignoring the war powers act and being sued because of it. Are you claiming the Democrats have some sort of moral high ground after keeping Gitmo open, extending the Patriot Act, extending tax cuts, spending trillions on crony capitalism and bailouts, extending wars, starting additional wars and doing nothing to truly help the economy?

Delusional indeed!

Quote:
The only thing Republicans could have done to help avert the crisis is deal with Fannie and Freddy and most of them aren't even conservative enough to deal with that now. There's also no way you'd ever support that because Fannie, Freddy and lack of lending standards "helps the poor" which means the blinders come on and the reasoning stops.

So in other words they were ineffective.

Quote:
Richard Nixon was indeed wrong and resigned. Clinton was wrong and didn't resign. Bush had the same intelligence that any other president would have had and listened to those agencies. They are the same agencies that prompted the Clinton administration to declare that the United States ought to change the regime in Iraq. Finally, the proof in the pudding is watching folks like yourself defend Obama all these years. The blood and corruption, if there was any in the first place are on your hands more than any others because you declared it wrong and now stand silent and vote in more of the same when you've seen and been told about the lies.

Funny. I don't remmber Obama ordering breaking and entering or being caught in a direct lie to the american people.


Quote:
Even if you believe Bush lied, at least he lied to someone about an action he requested authorization on. Obama is ignoring the war powers act and being sued because of it. Are you claiming the Democrats have some sort of moral high ground after keeping Gitmo open, extending the Patriot Act, extending tax cuts, spending trillions on crony capitalism and bailouts, extending wars, starting additional wars and doing nothing to truly help the economy?

Half of this rambling statement doesn't excuse what Bush did. I don't agree with what Obama has done with his handling of the pull outs. As far the rest of your statement it seems to wander in and out of your personal viewpoint. I believe part of what Obama did was necessary to avert a much worse situation in which you and I might not be having this conversation because we couldn't afford the internet let alone other things. People don't seem to realize a real depression is much worse than what we've been through. So enough with the rhetoric already.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #183 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I think it's pretty easy to see what you meant.

Yes, I know, you told me what you think I meant. But words are words.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #184 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

And I'm saying...show me ONE example. I don't present intellectually dishonest arguments. Ever.



No wait!

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post #185 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Yes, I know, you told me what you think I meant. But words are words.

Yes they are aren't they.
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post #186 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

We were on topic. Your attitude is the same as Cantor's.

Tell me, do conversations go best with you when you tell people what they think and what their attitudes and motivations are? How does that work for you?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #187 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

If Ayn Rand and the Free Market Fetishists Were Right, We'd be Living in a Golden Age. Does This Look Like a Golden Age to You?

Can you explain your calculus here?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #188 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I don't remmber Obama ordering breaking and entering or being caught in a direct lie to the american people.

I see what you did there.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #189 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I see what you did there.

Indirect lies are okay.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #190 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Indirect lies are okay.

Yeah. Be need not look just for indirect lies from Obama. There are plenty that are pretty blatant.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #191 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

GDP means nothing when you have a growing wealth gap. It shows no indication whatsoever of the typical and the minimal standard of living. The typical and minimal standards of living in every one of those countries mentioned here is better than it is in the US. If you're rich, and greedy, and not affected by crime or infrastructure problems, then the US is definitely the best place to live. If you're not rich, it's not.

So the US has lower "minimal standard of living?" Do you really think that's true? Keep in mind we need to account for the population difference (Sweden has about 1/34th ours).

Anecdotally speaking, I live not far from a former steel town. Much of the city is now poor, as the mill is barely functioning and well past its hey day. Like many towns, its minority population and public housing population has increased dramatically. Yet, I still drive down the street and see Direct TV dishes, cars, etc. This is a common sight in lower income, minority areas. The point? The vast majority of poor Americans have a very decent "minimum standard." Our poor do not even compare to much of the world's poor. Now, we do have homeless and people that don't live in good situations. But this is not the case for much of the nation.

I also think that if you look at the middle class, the same holds true. Middle income people in the United States experience a luxurious existence compare to many other countries across the globe. Our middle class is huge and unprecedented in history. And you're telling me a nation of 9 million that hasn't fought a war since 1814 compares favorably? It's just silly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

We were on topic. Your attitude is the same as Cantor's.

There is simply no explaining that statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Which eyes are those? Your subjective ones? I remember several politicians who were of the conservative rank who didn't deal with reality very well. Richard Nixon who thought he was above the law and sought to influence a presidential election by breaking and entering.

How is Richard Nixon relevant to this discussion. Let me guess, you probably think he's being intellectually dishonest by not mentioning every Republican who ever did anything wrong.

Quote:
Then there's Dubbya who was just sure people would totally buy the idea of WMD in Iraq ( which of course turned out to be false ).

Ahh...bringing up the lack of WMD...in a thread about the economy of socialized democracies that has branched out into the economy of Sweden vs. the U.S. \

Quote:

Dubbya who by the way since he was in charge for 8 years could have done something different to avert this most recent economic mess before it got bad.

To use your words, "we've talked about this already." What could he have done? The Administration was pushing for regulations in the mortgage industry (Fannie and Freddie) for five years. Frank and Waters wouldn't have any of it. Bush enacted tax rebates as things slowed. He signed TARP when the crisis really hit. Tell me jimmac, what action should have been taken?

Quote:
And I play in the sandbox everytime I come here.

I have no doubt.
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post #192 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I see what you did there.

That's because I knew you'd be injecting your own opinion ( not facts ) into this conversation again.
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post #193 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

That's because I knew you'd be injecting your own opinion ( not facts ) into this conversation again.

Ohhhh for fuck's sake. The Irony-Meter just broke again. I don't think it can be fixed this time.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #194 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Tell me, do conversations go best with you when you tell people what they think and what their attitudes and motivations are? How does that work for you?

What's the matter? Don't you stand by your words enough that you don't have to change the interpretation to fit the exchange? I still think what you said was very clear and easy to intepret.
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post #195 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Ohhhh for fuck's sake. The Irony-Meter just broke again. I don't think it can be fixed this time.

I think you need to have someone look at that irony meter of yours. It only seems to work at your convenience.
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post #196 of 338
OK. Go ahead...

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #197 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

So the US has lower "minimal standard of living?" Do you really think that's true? Keep in mind we need to account for the population difference (Sweden has about 1/34th ours).

Anecdotally speaking, I live not far from a former steel town. Much of the city is now poor, as the mill is barely functioning and well past its hey day. Like many towns, its minority population and public housing population has increased dramatically. Yet, I still drive down the street and see Direct TV dishes, cars, etc. This is a common sight in lower income, minority areas. The point? The vast majority of poor Americans have a very decent "minimum standard." Our poor do not even compare to much of the world's poor. Now, we do have homeless and people that don't live in good situations. But this is not the case for much of the nation.

I also think that if you look at the middle class, the same holds true. Middle income people in the United States experience a luxurious existence compare to many other countries across the globe. Our middle class is huge and unprecedented in history. And you're telling me a nation of 9 million that hasn't fought a war since 1814 compares favorably? It's just silly.




There is simply no explaining that statement.



How is Richard Nixon relevant to this discussion. Let me guess, you probably think he's being intellectually dishonest by not mentioning every Republican who ever did anything wrong.



Ahh...bringing up the lack of WMD...in a thread about the economy of socialized democracies that has branched out into the economy of Sweden vs. the U.S. \



To use your words, "we've talked about this already." What could he have done? The Administration was pushing for regulations in the mortgage industry (Fannie and Freddie) for five years. Frank and Waters wouldn't have any of it. Bush enacted tax rebates as things slowed. He signed TARP when the crisis really hit. Tell me jimmac, what action should have been taken?



I have no doubt.

Quote:
There is simply no explaining that statement.

It's clear you haven't been following the thread ( what a surprise! ).

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How is Richard Nixon relevant to this discussion. Let me guess, you probably think he's being intellectually dishonest by not mentioning every Republican who ever did anything wrong.

It's as relevent as the million times you guys have brought up Clinton!

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Ahh...bringing up the lack of WMD...in a thread about the economy of socialized democracies that has branched out into the economy of Sweden vs. the U.S.

We were talking about the nature of reality that brought that up. Something I'm sure they don't practice in the Bizzaro World. Once again haven't you been following the thread or are you just shooting blindly?

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What could he have done?

You're right probably nothing as he was in charge of the country for most of a decade and totally ineffective.

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I have no doubt.

Want to pass the shovel?

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #198 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

OK. Go ahead...

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #199 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Yeah. Be need not look just for indirect lies from Obama. There are plenty that are pretty blatant.

Nice anti Obama website! I especially like this comment from their home page :

Quote:
May 25th, 2011 | Posted in Interesting | 3 Comments


Obama Lies about his Birth Certificate


After a lot of build up, Obama Lies about his birth certificate and produces a fake long form birth certificate. Luckily, with the help of Mr Donald Trump, weve got the real birth certificate. Click the picture to expand.

It really lends them some credibility!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #200 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

SThe Canadian stock market has outperformed the US stock market twofold since Bush entered office. Despite (or maybe in part because of?) the presence of a more socialist policy.

That wasn't because of socialism, or not entirely anyway. It was because in the mid-1990s the Canadian government was cut from 52% of gdp down to 35% of gdp, and they revamped the pension system. Canada has done pretty much everything better than the US has, and they have a much better balance sheet as a result.

It would have been good to do the same back in the mid 1990s, but it is too late now - and we will probably drag Canada down with us when our society dies.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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