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And yet another free-market theory failure - Page 6

post #201 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

That wasn't because of socialism, or not entirely anyway. It was because in the mid-1990s the Canadian government was cut from 52% of gdp down to 35% of gdp, and they revamped the pension system. Canada has done pretty much everything better than the US has, and they have a much better balance sheet as a result.

It would have been good to do the same back in the mid 1990s, but it is too late now - and we will probably drag Canada down with us when our society dies.

Interesting.

Sweden starts moving away from socialism/fascism and the economy starts doing better.

Canada starts moving away from socialism/fascism and the economy starts doing better.

The US moves toward socialism/fascism and the economy starts doing worse.

I see a pattern here.

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post #202 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Interesting.

Sweden starts moving away from socialism/fascism and the economy starts doing better.

Canada starts moving away from socialism/fascism and the economy starts doing better.

The US moves toward socialism/fascism and the economy starts doing worse.

I see a pattern here.

Except in medical care - we spend twice as much as anybody else, and get the 7th best healthcare as a result. Canada, Sweden, etc - the top six countries all spend half what we do and get better results.

Also - a big reason for Canada's success is their banking regulations, they keep a tight grip on their banks, exactly like we fail to do.
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post #203 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Except in medical care - we spend twice as much as anybody else, and get the 7th best healthcare as a result. Canada, Sweden, etc - the top six countries all spend half what we do and get better results.

Also - a big reason for Canada's success is their banking regulations, they keep a tight grip on their banks, exactly like we fail to do.

We can debate those things...the causes and effects...whether government involvement in these areas is necessary and such.

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post #204 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

We can debate those things...the causes and effects...whether government involvement in these areas is necessary and such.

Proof is in the pudding, imho - Canada has it right, we have it way wrong. The only two things that stop me from moving back to BC are (1) the cascadia megathrust earthquake, which will kill millions of people, and (2) the threat of invasion from the US.

Switzerland is my eventual destination if things continue to go south here.
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post #205 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Except in medical care - we spend twice as much as anybody else, and get the 7th best healthcare as a result. Canada, Sweden, etc - the top six countries all spend half what we do and get better results.

Also - a big reason for Canada's success is their banking regulations, they keep a tight grip on their banks, exactly like we fail to do.

Canada does indeed do a lot right. They have no issues with oil drilling as an example.

We also don't have the seventh best health care. We have the seventh best health care result. We you have a bunch of people eating, smoking, drinking, etc themselves to death. There comes a point where you don't blame the doctor and do blame the patient. I'll be happy to blame the FDA though for their terrible food recommendations.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #206 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Proof is in the pudding,

Perhaps...but the "pudding" may not always be what it seems to be. Let's just deal with your claims about healthcare.

Have you stopped to asked whether the costs you mentioned actually reflect all of the costs? Have you stopped to consider whether health and life outcomes (in any country) are only related to the healthcare services available in that country and not other factors? Have to investigated whether money spent on healthcare in the US by Canadians is actually captured as healthcare spending in the US (not Canada) and the health outcomes are then counted in Canada (not the US)?

This issue is rarely as simple as people make it out to be and as you have with your blanket comment of "Canada spends less and does better."

As an aside, I find it interesting that among leftists (not saying you are one) the problem with healthcare in the US is that we spend too much and get bad outcomes...but the problem with education (which is largely run by the government*) is that we get bad outcomes because we don't spend enough.

*The government involvement (both regulatoraly and fiscally) in healthcare in the US is huge and, I would contend, a chief part of the problem in the US.


Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

we have it way wrong.

There is much wrong in the US, but I suspect we might disagree about what those things are.


Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Switzerland is my eventual destination if things continue to go south here.

I like warmer weather...I may head to Chile or Mauritius.

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post #207 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I like warmer weather...I may head to Chile or Mauritius.

If it comes to it, I'm heading for Brazil. I lived there for 2 years, have several good friends there, and speak, read, and write Portuguese already.

They seem to be doing some things right - energy independence, for one.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

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post #208 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I'll be happy to blame the FDA though for their terrible food recommendations.

We could also place some blame on US corn subsidies that cheapen corn so much that we use it for corn syrup (yuck) and use it to feed cattle (blech). Both of which have done wonders for American health.

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post #209 of 338
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

If it comes to it, I'm heading for Brazil. I lived there for 2 years, have several good friends there, and speak, read, and write Portuguese already.

They seem to be doing some things right - energy independence, for one.

Yes, honestly, Brazil fits your economic ideas perfecty. It's a very good representation of what the US would soon look like if your ideas were put into place.
post #210 of 338
Thread Starter 
But I agree that energy independence is crucial. Of course, that means getting off oil entirely, not just drilling for more, which could only ever be a temporary stopgap, and quite a blow to the environment.
post #211 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

It's clear you haven't been following the thread ( what a surprise! ).....

I see you've begun acting out. Someone is going to get grounded for throwing sand. Your "reply" is nonsensical and evasive. I asked you...as I have before...what Bush specifically could have been done differently. I also listed some of the actions he did take. Your response was essentially that he was asleep at the switch and was "ineffective for the better part of the decade." That last part is objectively false, of course. Average unemployment, GDP growth, and most if not all major economic indicators were very positive for the Bush years. There is no way around this, jimmac.

Average unemployment was 5.2 percent.

A growing economy from late 2001-2008

The tax system became more progressive. From wiki:

Quote:
At the same time, the share of overall tax liabilities of the top 1% increased from 22.9% to 25.3% ,[20] as the result of a tax system which became more progressive since 2000.[21]

The deficit hit a low of 1.2% of GDP in 2007. That's right, the deficit decreased after the "tax cuts for the rich."

None of this matters to you, because you continue to blame the Bush Administration for the 2008 crisis. As usual, you're not interested in what actually happened. You're interested in partisan politics.
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post #212 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I see you've begun acting out. Someone is going to get grounded for throwing sand. Your "reply" is nonsensical and evasive. I asked you...as I have before...what Bush specifically could have been done differently. I also listed some of the actions he did take. Your response was essentially that he was asleep at the switch and was "ineffective for the better part of the decade." That last part is objectively false, of course. Average unemployment, GDP growth, and most if not all major economic indicators were very positive for the Bush years. There is no way around this, jimmac.

Average unemployment was 5.2 percent.

A growing economy from late 2001-2008

The tax system became more progressive. From wiki:



The deficit hit a low of 1.2% of GDP in 2007. That's right, the deficit decreased after the "tax cuts for the rich."

None of this matters to you, because you continue to blame the Bush Administration for the 2008 crisis. As usual, you're not interested in what actually happened. You're interested in partisan politics.

Quote:
I see you've begun acting out. Someone is going to get grounded for throwing sand.

Now who's acting out and throwing sand? You really can't start out without this childish discourse ( but I guess when you work with little kids all day you don't know anything else ).

Quote:
Your response was essentially that he was asleep at the switch and was "ineffective for the better part of the decade

Please don't act like I'm the only one who thinks this. You know better.

Quote:
I asked you...as I have before...w[B]hat Bush specifically could have been done differently

By this question are you saying no one could have altered the outcome? That there was nothing Bush could have done? I mean he was president during 8 years of this situation brewing ( most have said it went on longer than that but he had ample time ). If so why are you expecting so much from Obama who's only been president for not quite 3 years?

Do you see how this works now?

Quote:
None of this matters to you, because you continue to blame the Bush Administration for the 2008 crisis.

So who would you hold responsible? Clinton who was president 8 years before it exploded? Carter? That was back in the 70's! These are names you've already used in response to this question ( I noticed you skipped over all of the Republicans ). If it's no one could have done anything why do you expect Obama to fix it now?

How about Bush taking a more active role in controlling the institutions who were a big part in causing this? Oh! But that's right. You don't like government control. The same thing you're are preaching now to cure our ills like magic.

You can throw as many figures from the Republican play book as you want but it won't change this simple question.
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post #213 of 338

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post #214 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


At a loss for words?
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post #215 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

At a loss for words?

Indeed I am. Indeed I am.

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post #216 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Indeed I am. Indeed I am.

Well. Whatcha going to do? But it is kind of refreshing to see.
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post #217 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Well. Whatcha going to do? But it is kind of refreshing to see.

It wasn't a compliment.

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post #218 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Now who's acting out and throwing sand? You really can't start out without this childish discourse ( but I guess when you work with little kids all day you don't know anything else ).

I am not the one acting out, throwing smilies and rolleyes around 17 times per post.

Quote:



Please don't act like I'm the only one who thinks this. You know better.

I do know better--and never implied you were the only one who believed that.

Quote:



By this question are you saying no one could have altered the outcome? That there was nothing Bush could have done? I mean he was president during 8 years of this situation brewing ( most have said it went on longer than that but he had ample time ). If so why are you expecting so much from Obama who's only been president for not quite 3 years?

Do you see how this works now?

Yes, I do. I see that you cannot help but use strawmen. The above is a textbook example of one. I never claimed that "no one" could have altered the outcome. I asked what Bush could have done differently. You apparently have no answer.

Quote:



So who would you hold responsible? Clinton who was president 8 years before it exploded? Carter? That was back in the 70's! These are names you've already used in response to this question ( I noticed you skipped over all of the Republicans ). If it's no one could have done anything why do you expect Obama to fix it now?

Whom to hold responsible is an entirely different matter. It is not the question we were discussing. I'll be happy to get into that once you answer my question.

Quote:

How about Bush taking a more active role in controlling the institutions who were a big part in causing this? Oh! But that's right. You don't like government control. The same thing you're are preaching now to cure our ills like magic.

You realize that "taking a more active role" is in no way an answer, right?

Quote:

You can throw as many figures from the Republican play book as you want but it won't change this simple question.

I am the one asking the question. You are the one not answering. Oddly enough, you're right...it is a simple. You simply do not have an answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

It wasn't a compliment.

Love it.
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post #219 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yes, honestly, Brazil fits your economic ideas perfecty.

Actually, it doesn't.

Quote:
It's a very good representation of what the US would soon look like if your ideas were put into place.

Actually, it's not.

But at the rate things are deteriorating here, it might soon be a more welcoming environment in which to live.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

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post #220 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

It wasn't a compliment.

I knew that.
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post #221 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I am not the one acting out, throwing smilies and rolleyes around 17 times per post.



I do know better--and never implied you were the only one who believed that.



Yes, I do. I see that you cannot help but use strawmen. The above is a textbook example of one. I never claimed that "no one" could have altered the outcome. I asked what Bush could have done differently. You apparently have no answer.



Whom to hold responsible is an entirely different matter. It is not the question we were discussing. I'll be happy to get into that once you answer my question.



You realize that "taking a more active role" is in no way an answer, right?



I am the one asking the question. You are the one not answering. Oddly enough, you're right...it is a simple. You simply do not have an answer.



Love it.

Well here's something else that you'll love. Who do you hold responsible for this debacle? And who and how could it have been avoided.

Let me guess the fault falls squarly on the shoulders of a Democrat.

The rest of your post was the usual smoke and mirrors.

Quote:
You realize that "taking a more active role" is in no way an answer, right?

Why?

Quote:
I am the one asking the question. You are the one not answering. Oddly enough, you're right...it is a simple. You simply do not have an answer.

I have asked you several quesions in the past that you haven' answered either. Sometimes you ignore, sometimes it's an evasion, and sometimes I get " I just don't understand " or " look it up for me ". So what's the difference. Sometimes it went on for weeks where I would just ask the question everytime you posted on the subject. So why is this different?

Quote:
You simply do not have an answer

I tried to give an answer. You just won't accept it because it's not in your play book. So do you have one? How could we have avoided this? And if we couldn't why attack Obama from day one?

I have to confess sometyimes when I've seen you answer something like this you seemed to be suggesting that leting things run on their own was the answer which given if things are already fucked up how is that an answer?
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post #222 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

We can debate those things...the causes and effects...whether government involvement in these areas is necessary and such.

Exactly. No way I buy that we have "the 7th best healthcare" either. Our problem is with insurance and lifestyle choices, including poor diet, lack of exercise, smoking, etc. Our facilities and doctors are excellent on the whole. In an hour's drive, I can go to probably 20 top notch hospitals in my area.

I just had surgery in one on Thursday, as a matter of fact (back operation #2) near Newark, DE. I got there at 8:30 a.m. Wheeled into surgery a little before 11. They had monitors in the waiting room with patient codes so family could see where you were (pre-op, OR, recovery, etc). The place was bright and spotless. The staff was excellent. After a microdiscectomy, I was able to leave by 7:00 that night...I was even in a private room without asking. I had the choice of whether or not to stay, but wanted to go home. Clearly, the surgeon did an amazing job. I was able to go the park today with my family and have very little pain.

The point? Yes, I have good health insurance. But good health insurance doesn't matter if the doc and hospital aren't great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yes, honestly, Brazil fits your economic ideas perfecty. It's a very good representation of what the US would soon look like if your ideas were put into place.

I think if we follow what we're doing now, our inflation rate might get to where Brazil's was not long ago.
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post #223 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Actually, it doesn't.



Actually, it's not.

But at the rate things are deteriorating here, it might soon be a more welcoming environment in which to live.

Oh please! This this is just like when Bush won a second term some would say : " Maybe there won't be a democrat elected again ever ". We all know that wouldn't happen anymore than this situation will go on forever. The real question is what can we do to avoid it lasting longer. I'm sure we have different takes on that one.
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post #224 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Exactly. No way I buy that we have "the 7th best healthcare" either. Our problem is with insurance and lifestyle choices, including poor diet, lack of exercise, smoking, etc. Our facilities and doctors are excellent on the whole. In an hour's drive, I can go to probably 20 top notch hospitals in my area.

I just had surgery in one on Thursday, as a matter of fact (back operation #2) near Newark, DE. I got there at 8:30 a.m. Wheeled into surgery a little before 11. They had monitors in the waiting room with patient codes so family could see where you were (pre-op, OR, recovery, etc). The place was bright and spotless. The staff was excellent. After a microdiscectomy, I was able to leave by 7:00 that night...I was even in a private room without asking. I had the choice of whether or not to stay, but wanted to go home. Clearly, the surgeon did an amazing job. I was able to go the park today with my family and have very little pain.

The point? Yes, I have good health insurance. But good health insurance doesn't matter if the doc and hospital aren't great.



I think if we follow what we're doing now, our inflation rate might get to where Brazil's was not long ago.

You might want to look at this : http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/I...tInflation.asp
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post #225 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Oh please! This this is just like when Bush won a second term some would say : " Maybe there won't be a democrat elected again ever ". We all know that wouldn't happen anymore than this situation will go on forever. The real question is what can we do to avoid it lasting longer. I'm sure we have different takes on that one.

You always seem to want to make things about Bush. It's like history doesn't exist before the year 2000 in your mind. Some of us see what's happening, with both Bush and Obama, as a culmination and even acceleration of bad choices that have been made in this country for a long, long time. In my view it goes back almost a hundred years. Then Hoover and FDR (the Bush and Obama of the 20's and 30's) put their feet on the accelerator. We've slowed down at times and taken some steps backwards. There have been times when things haven't been quite so bad. The 1970's were a mess of course...the 80's and90's were great by comparison...but then another bubble was created and crashed. Obama then put his foot on the accelerator.

This is not all about what's happened in the fast few years though that certainly hasn't helped.

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post #226 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You might want to look at this : http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/I...tInflation.asp

Why? Why might he want to look at that? What is that telling us? How does it inform us?

Or is this just another one of you drive-by link-slaps with a URL you took 15 seconds to find on Google that says something you think it says without having considered the question or the issue?

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post #227 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Why? Why might he want to look at that? What is that telling us? How does it inform us?

Or is this just another one of you drive-by link-slaps with a URL you took 15 seconds to find on Google that says something you think it says without having considered the question or the issue?

Brazils is around 6.16 while ours is around 3.57 not even at the rate of where it was earlier 3.99 in 2006. I'm sure you'll have a way to spin this somehow but why are you answering for SDW?

I'm sorry but the way they were talking it sounded just like more " There's a Democrat in the Whitehouse we're doomed! ".

Please! What's next " Road Warrior "?

By the way I knew SWD would leave without answering my question. Or even trying to answer.
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post #228 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Brazils is around 6.16 while ours is around 3.57 not even at the rate of where it was earlier 3.99 in 2006. I'm sure you'll have a way to spin this somehow but why are you answering for SDW?

I could present factual information but I know this will not deter you. One important fact is that those CPI numbers from government do not include fuel and food. That's a big omission.

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post #229 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

You always seem to want to make things about Bush. It's like history doesn't exist before the year 2000 in your mind. Some of us see what's happening, with both Bush and Obama, as a culmination and even acceleration of bad choices that have been made in this country for a long, long time. In my view it goes back almost a hundred years. Then Hoover and FDR (the Bush and Obama of the 20's and 30's) put their feet on the accelerator. We've slowed down at times and taken some steps backwards. There have been times when things haven't been quite so bad. The 1970's were a mess of course...the 80's and90's were great by comparison...but then another bubble was created and crashed. Obama then put his foot on the accelerator.

This is not all about what's happened in the fast few years though that certainly hasn't helped.

Ok. Assuming you're commenting on my conversation with SDW in the past when pressed on this subject the fault and the begining of this crisis started with democrats the republicans who served inbetween are apparently blameless. I do think this problem goes farther back than Bush. He's just the one who recently had the most time to do something about it.

Quote:
There have been times when things haven't been quite so bad.

In respect to what? I mean there was the boom in the 60's ( I lived through that and times were really good when I was a kid ) and the boom in the mid to late 90's which saw the longest running Bull market in history ending with a surplus for the next administraion. I'd call that more than " Not so bad ".
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post #230 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Ok. Assuming you're commenting on my conversation with SDW...

I'm commenting on your insistence on bring everything back to Bush as if there is nothing other than Bush and Obama.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I do think this problem goes farther back than Bush. He's just the one who recently had the most time to do something about it.

Yes it does go back further than Bush. No, maybe he didn't do anything about. He even did some things to make things worse. So has Obama. No one seems to be doing anything to actually fix the problems.

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post #231 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I'm commenting on your insistence on bring everything back to Bush as if there is nothing other than Bush and Obama.




Yes it does go back further than Bush. No, maybe he didn't do anything about. He even did some things to make things worse. So has Obama. No one seems to be doing anything to actually fix the problems.

So you see this is what happens when you step into a conversation with someone else. I may not share your full viewpoint on Obama ( trust me I'm not totally pleased with him at all and I'm puzzeled by those who say I think he can do no wrong it's just that for various reasons I prefer him over Bush ) but SDW would give Bush high marks apparently.

I do believe that anyone ( Democrat, Republican, or whoever ) wouild have a hard row to hoe with what's happened.
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post #232 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

So you see this is what happens when you step into a conversation with someone else.

I commented on a post made in a public forum.

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post #233 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I commented on a post made in a public forum.

Well then why do you say I think it's all Bush or you seem to indicate I think Obama can do no wrong. While SDW says he thinks Bush did great?

I don't mind you commenting on a public forum but please get your facts straight about whom you're addressing.
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post #234 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Well then why do you say I think it's all Bush or you seem to indicate I think Obama can do no wrong.

I didn't say that. I said you seem to bring everything back to Bush.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

While SDW says he thinks Bush did great?

I don't agree with that either. But, based on the body of your posts, you seem to blame it all on Bush and don't reserve any criticism about the economy for Obama.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I don't mind you commenting on a public forum

Gee, thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

but please get your facts straight about whom you're addressing.

I know who I'm addressing.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #235 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You might want to look at this : http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/I...tInflation.asp

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Why? Why might he want to look at that? What is that telling us? How does it inform us?

Or is this just another one of you drive-by link-slaps with a URL you took 15 seconds to find on Google that says something you think it says without having considered the question or the issue?

I'm betting the latter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Brazils is around 6.16 while ours is around 3.57 not even at the rate of where it was earlier 3.99 in 2006. I'm sure you'll have a way to spin this somehow but why are you answering for SDW?

I'm sorry but the way they were talking it sounded just like more " There's a Democrat in the Whitehouse we're doomed! ".

Please! What's next " Road Warrior "?

By the way I knew SWD would leave without answering my question. Or even trying to answer.

Yes, I was absent from the board from more than an hour. How dare I? By the way, if you think our real inflation rate is only 3.57 percent, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Well here's something else that you'll love. Who do you hold responsible for this debacle? And who and how could it have been avoided.

Let me guess the fault falls squarly on the shoulders of a Democrat.

The rest of your post was the usual smoke and mirrors.



Why?



I have asked you several quesions in the past that you haven' answered either. Sometimes you ignore, sometimes it's an evasion, and sometimes I get " I just don't understand " or " look it up for me ". So what's the difference. Sometimes it went on for weeks where I would just ask the question everytime you posted on the subject. So why is this different?



I tried to give an answer. You just won't accept it because it's not in your play book. So do you have one? How could we have avoided this? And if we couldn't why attack Obama from day one?

I have to confess sometyimes when I've seen you answer something like this you seemed to be suggesting that leting things run on their own was the answer which given if things are already fucked up how is that an answer?

jimmac, you did not give an answer. You offered a platitude. You claimed that "he should have been more involved in things" or whatever the word choice was. That doesn't mean anything. It's rhetorical.

As for whom to hold responsible, we've been through that [I]ad nauseam.[i] It's not a single person, nor entity, nor is it all a Democrat's fault, jimmac.

As for how to have avoided it: I have no idea, do you? As MJ stated, it goes back such a long time. The roots of it are at least in the 1970s if not during FDR's time and maybe before. Every administration was involved, from loose money policy, to pushing banks to make loans they knew weren't good, to the greed of many on Wall Street.

So, I've answered my part. Now tell me...what policies should the Bush Administration have pursued? What actions should have been taken? And what do you have to say about Frank and Waters ignoring that Bush Administration's warnings on Fannie and Freddie's exposure--warnings that started in 2003?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Oh please! This this is just like when Bush won a second term some would say : " Maybe there won't be a democrat elected again ever ". We all know that wouldn't happen anymore than this situation will go on forever. The real question is what can we do to avoid it lasting longer. I'm sure we have different takes on that one.
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post #236 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I'm betting the latter.




Yes, I was absent from the board from more than an hour. How dare I? By the way, if you think our real inflation rate is only 3.57 percent, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.



jimmac, you did not give an answer. You offered a platitude. You claimed that "he should have been more involved in things" or whatever the word choice was. That doesn't mean anything. It's rhetorical.

As for whom to hold responsible, we've been through that [I]ad nauseam.[i] It's not a single person, nor entity, nor is it all a Democrat's fault, jimmac.

As for how to have avoided it: I have no idea, do you? As MJ stated, it goes back such a long time. The roots of it are at least in the 1970s if not during FDR's time and maybe before. Every administration was involved, from loose money policy, to pushing banks to make loans they knew weren't good, to the greed of many on Wall Street.

So, I've answered my part. Now tell me...what policies should the Bush Administration have pursued? What actions should have been taken? And what do you have to say about Frank and Waters ignoring that Bush Administration's warnings on Fannie and Freddie's exposure--warnings that started in 2003?

Ok let's take just one item because that's all I have time for ( yes I leave here as well ) did you go to the link I provided about inflation? Are those facts in error in some way?

Thanks for answering I think much the same but that isn't what you've indicated in the past. Thanks for the clarification and admitting both sides were involved. Now about your views on inflation. Was that link in error because I can't see us anywhere near Brazil?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #237 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Ok let's take just one item because that's all I have time for ( yes I leave here as well ) did you go to the link I provided about inflation? Are those facts in error in some way?

Thanks for answering I think much the same but that isn't what you've indicated in the past. Thanks for the clarification and admitting both sides were involved. Now about your views on inflation. Was that link in error because I can't see us anywhere near Brazil?

1. If you leave from time to time, then stop attacking me for doing so. For your info, I am recovering from back surgery.

2. I've always maintained exactly what I posted above re: the financial crisis. I've never blamed only Democrats. I've even stated that the Bush Administration was eager to tout home ownership numbers, as others have done as well.

3. It's not that your link is incorrect, it's that it's not using the right inflation data. Most inflation stats strip out the volatile parts (the parts that actually matter to consumers) like food and energy. It's really a change in how the government calculates inflation. It makes us all feel better, I suppose. Here's a chart showing the differences:

http://dshort.com/inflation/inflatio...n-1872-present

And here is CNBC reporting that inflation is actually about 10%.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42551209
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post #238 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Interesting.

Sweden starts moving away from socialism/fascism and the economy starts doing better.

Canada starts moving away from socialism/fascism and the economy starts doing better.

The US moves toward socialism/fascism and the economy starts doing worse.

I see a pattern here.

The base tax rate in Sweden is nearly 50%.

America, clearly, should move towards Swedish socialism as quickly as they can if they want to emulate Swedish economic success, right? Right?

Taxes up to Swedish level should clearly do the trick, right? Right?

Christ, do you actually do any thinking at all before your stupid, illogical automatic pot-shots?
post #239 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

The base tax rate in Sweden is nearly 50%.

America, clearly, should move towards Swedish socialism as quickly as they can if they want to emulate Swedish economic success, right? Right?

Taxes up to Swedish level should clearly do the trick, right? Right?



It is because Sweden (and Canada) have started stepping back (however slightly) from their socialist policies that growth has happened and returned. It is because the US has move more toward these types of a policies that its economy has sputtered.

It is not an absolute point on the scale it is the move and the direction.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Christ, do you actually do any thinking at all before your stupid, illogical automatic pot-shots?

I could ask you the same thing.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #240 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post



It is because Sweden (and Canada) have started stepping back (however slightly) from their socialist policies that growth has happened and returned. It is because the US has move more toward these types of a policies that its economy has sputtered.

It is not an absolute point on the scale it is the move and the direction.

:.

Use your logical faculties. For once. Instead of the Randian autopilot.

The direction of the change means nothing if the end point is still socialism.

RE-READ THAT SENTENCE.

Sweden is a success. Its economic policy is impossible in American terms, because people like you would piss their pants that it was fascism or socialism or Marxism.

It is STILL MILES TO THE LEFT OF AMERICA.
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