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Afghanistan Withdrwal

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Thankfully President Obama is starting to withdraw the troops soon bringing 10,000 home by next year.End this war asap!
post #2 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Thankfully President Obama is starting to withdraw the troops soon bringing 10,000 home by next year.End this war asap!

There are a hundred thousand troops in Afghanistan, Marv. Even after next year's removal of another 20,000, the troop levels in Afghanistan will Still be ABOVE where they were when Obama took office. This is a distraction. Even HP have been relentless in attacking Obama on this.

I'm starting to think not only is Obama not a Liberal, he is a Neocon.
post #3 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post


I'm starting to think not only is Obama not a Liberal, he is a Neocon.

He probably had little choice in the matter. re. continuing and expanding upon the foreign (and many domestic) policies, expounded by neocon think tanks in 1999-2000, and rammed into overdrive with instant effect, in the wake of 9/11 by the previous administration. Obama's probably got a keenly developed sense of self preservation.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #4 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

There are a hundred thousand troops in Afghanistan, Marv. Even after next year's removal of another 20,000, the troop levels in Afghanistan will Still be ABOVE where they were when Obama took office. This is a distraction. Even HP have been relentless in attacking Obama on this.

I'm starting to think not only is Obama not a Liberal, he is a Neocon.


You should go back and read this, then let me know where you're buying me a beer at for being so correct.


Better still go back even further and see how consistent I am on the point.

I think I'm pretty quote worthy at this stage.

Obama has not declared that preemptive war is wrong. Quite the opposite, he has declared that it is acceptable and that he will just do it better than Bush. Thus he wouldn't have us in Iraq but still would have attacked and supports pouring more troops and money into Afghanistan. He has not declared he will stop us from being the cop of the world via Pax Americana, rather again, the opposite. His speech in Germany declared that we should double down on this policy. The claim is that American has not properly been a force for good in the world and has acted in a questionable way with regard to applying force. The real question shouldn't be are we applying force properly, but rather why should we be wandering the globe applying force at all.

Obama claims he will apply that force properly and commits to applying it more than ever before. In other words he will do preemptive war right, but not get us out of the war and global cop business.

So Obama will be a "change" in this regard, but not really because he simply declares we will be a better cop and use his judgment for a preemptive war done right. We should be out of the cop and war business in my view.


Note that per the date, Obama hadn't even been sworn in yet.

This is why I point out that the statements of Edwards, Obama and Clinton (H) do not reflect the end of Pax Americana. They only claim they will execute Pax Americana in a more competent fashion than Bush has done. If you get a Pat Buchanan out there, someone who declares that America ought worry about America and get its nose out of the business of others, he is called an outright racist for not caring enough the global atrocity of the week that as the lone superpower and world cop, we must rush in and fix to show we "care."

This was 2007.

I could go find more but really, I want some good wine or beer to put out.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #5 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


You should go back and read this, then let me know where you're buying me a beer at for being so correct.


Better still go back even further and see how consistent I am on the point.

I think I'm pretty quote worthy at this stage.

Obama has not declared that preemptive war is wrong. Quite the opposite, he has declared that it is acceptable and that he will just do it better than Bush. Thus he wouldn't have us in Iraq but still would have attacked and supports pouring more troops and money into Afghanistan. He has not declared he will stop us from being the cop of the world via Pax Americana, rather again, the opposite. His speech in Germany declared that we should double down on this policy. The claim is that American has not properly been a force for good in the world and has acted in a questionable way with regard to applying force. The real question shouldn't be are we applying force properly, but rather why should we be wandering the globe applying force at all.

Obama claims he will apply that force properly and commits to applying it more than ever before. In other words he will do preemptive war right, but not get us out of the war and global cop business.

So Obama will be a "change" in this regard, but not really because he simply declares we will be a better cop and use his judgment for a preemptive war done right. We should be out of the cop and war business in my view.


Note that per the date, Obama hadn't even been sworn in yet.

This is why I point out that the statements of Edwards, Obama and Clinton (H) do not reflect the end of Pax Americana. They only claim they will execute Pax Americana in a more competent fashion than Bush has done. If you get a Pat Buchanan out there, someone who declares that America ought worry about America and get its nose out of the business of others, he is called an outright racist for not caring enough the global atrocity of the week that as the lone superpower and world cop, we must rush in and fix to show we "care."

This was 2007.

I could go find more but really, I want some good wine or beer to put out.

You're right. I was wrong. This is definitely a 'gotcha' and you got me.

I'd love to buy you a beer in December, when I'll be back in San Diego visiting my parents. Honestly.
post #6 of 13
You know it is obvious what is going on,,

We have crony capitilism running things. AND!!!!! the government is complicit. That's right.

So free market capitalism or socialism aside the large problem is the closed door deals by the globalists that run things. The politicians are just the puppets which direct policy according to the whims of the the powers that be.

Obama is worse than Bush.... I never realized how quickly I would realize this. It did not take long.

I now realize how both sides of American politics are failing us. and not just kind of failing us.

But Royally.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #7 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

There are a hundred thousand troops in Afghanistan, Marv. Even after next year's removal of another 20,000, the troop levels in Afghanistan will Still be ABOVE where they were when Obama took office. This is a distraction. Even HP have been relentless in attacking Obama on this.

I'm starting to think not only is Obama not a Liberal, he is a Neocon.

Obama is for Obama that is the real truth.I say get out of Afghanistan now and bring home at least 50,000 troops now.
post #8 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

He probably had little choice in the matter. re. continuing and expanding upon the foreign (and many domestic) policies, expounded by neocon think tanks in 1999-2000, and rammed into overdrive with instant effect, in the wake of 9/11 by the previous administration. Obama's probably got a keenly developed sense of self preservation.

Still blaming Bush and the mythical Neocons for the actions of a President that has been in office 2.5 years.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #9 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Still blaming Bush and the mythical Neocons for the actions of a President that has been in office 2.5 years.

Agree with the mockery here. While his role in the economic non-recovery and in the failure to present a real health-care bill may be debatable, he absolutely could have done differently with regard to military activities.
post #10 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corck1 View Post

Americans finally lost the war from Afgahni taliban.

Screw the taliban and Afghanistan.We have our own problems in the states.
post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You're right. I was wrong. This is definitely a 'gotcha' and you got me.

I'd love to buy you a beer in December, when I'll be back in San Diego visiting my parents. Honestly.

Sounds like a plan!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #12 of 13
Even complete and immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan cannot undo the damage we have done.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #13 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Still blaming Bush and the mythical Neocons for the actions of a President that has been in office 2.5 years.

Your (and most people's) addiction to the traditional partisan deception has blinded you to the reality that the former and current administrations are largely on the same page, especially as regards foreign policy.

Since when ... for examples in amongst a much longer list.... did Randy Scheunemann, Abram Shulsky, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Stephen E. Biegun, Ken Jensen, Gary J. Schmitt, Max Boot, Henry Kissinger, Robert Kagan, Dan Senor, Ellen Bork, Lawrence Kaplan, Henry Sokolski, Paul Bremer, Eliot Abrams, David Kramer, Whit Stillman, Scott Carpenter, Irina Krasovskaya, William Taft, Elizabeth Cheney, Dick Cheney, William Kristol, Marc Thiessen, Eliot Cohen, Dov Zakheim, Tod Lindberg, Paul Wolfowitz, Dan Goure, Daniel Twining, Seth Cropsey, Barry Watts, Michael Makovsky, Kurt Volker, Thomas Donnelly, Ann Marlowe, Michael Chertoff, John Negroponte, John Bolton, Peter Wehner, Michele Dunne, Cliff May, Ken Weinstein, Eric Edelman, Joshua Muravchik, Leon Wieseltier, Jamie Fly, Michael O'Hanlon, Rich Williamson, Reuel Marc Gerecht, Martin Peretz, Robert Killebrew, Damon Wilson, William Inboden, Danielle Pletka, Bruce Pitcairn Jackson, John Podhoretz, Roger Barnett, Alvin Bernstein, Stephen Cambone, Devon Gaffney Cross, Thomas Donnelly, David Epstein, Steve Rosen, Robert Martinage, Lewis Libby, etc. etc. amongst the horde of super-influential DC Israeliphiles/Islamophobes .... phew... suddenly assume the status of "mythical"?

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
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