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Apple adopts 7-day App Store return policy in Taiwan, Singapore to give soldiers iPads

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
Apple has complied with Taiwanese law and now allows customers in that country up to one week to receive a refund on App Store software. Also, Singapore has announced it will arm members of its military with Apple's iPad.

7-day returns take effect in Taiwan

In response to a ruling earlier this month ordering Apple to alter its App Store rules, users in that country now have a seven-day trial period for when they download software to their iPhone, according to The Economic Times. Within a week of buying an application, users can choose to return it and receive a full refund.

Apple's rival, search giant Google, did not comply with the order that stemmed from Taiwan's consumer protection law. As a result, Google was fined the equivalent of $34,600 U.S. dollars.

Google's Android Market offers users 15 minutes to decide whether they want a refund. Taiwanese law stipulates that consumers must receive a seven-day trial for any products purchased over the Internet, including smartphone software.

The report did not detail how Apple's refund policy for App Store software works. There is not currently a trial period for App Store software elsewhere in the world.

Singapore soldiers get iPads

Starting this November, army, air force and navy recruits in Singapore will be equipped with Apple's iPad, according to PhysOrg (via Engadget). The first round of supplies will include 8,000 total iPads issued this fall.

Singapore's defense ministry reportedly plans to add even more servicemen next year. The entry-level Wi-Fi-only 16GB iPad 2 retails for $538 U.S. dollars in Singapore.

Neo Kian Hong, head of defense for the Singapore Armed Forces, said utilizing the iPad will allow the military to take advantage of the tech skills of the country's youth. Applications will include a live messaging system with group chat discussions.



"By exploiting the use of popular and current information and communications technology, we are able to harness our advantage of today's technologically savvy servicemen," he reportedly said.

Last year, the United Kingdom began using Apple's iPad to train soldiers for operations in Afghanistan. And the U.S. Army has been looking for ways to implement devices like the iPad and iPhone in its own operations.
post #2 of 30
And when do we get this same 7-day return policy in the U.S.? (and the rest of the world for that matter?)
post #3 of 30
A $34,600 fine? That's nothing, it's peanuts.

A 7 day trial period is a terrible idea. People would take advantage of it. Many games can be downloaded and completed in 1 day, let alone 7 days. I'm not a developer, but the 7 day return period is a retarded idea. If developers want people to check out their app for free, then they'll offer a free, limited version.

Apple should completely shut down all operations in Taiwan and halt all sales while declaring that country to be a country non grata in the Apple ecosystem, due to their idiotic laws.

I've bought many, many apps, and I can't really say that I've ever been burned. Just do a quick bit of research beforehand, so you know what you're getting.
post #4 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Last year, the United Kingdom began using Apple's iPad to train soldiers for operations in Afghanistan. And the U.S. Army has been looking for ways to implement devices like the iPad and iPhone in its own operations.

Simply awesome. I think it's great that we have teenagers in the US walking around tweeting and texting, banging into telephone poles and falling into water fountains.

Now lets equip the army so they can walk around fields of land mines playing with iPhones and iPads.

Should work really well.
post #5 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

And when do we get this same 7-day return policy in the U.S.? (and the rest of the world for that matter?)

This will result in abuse beyond belief. You know it, and everyone else sure knows it. What's to stop someone from downloading a video game, play it through in 6.9 days and request a refund? It'll decimate the app industry.

Instead of a 7-day policy, how's about 7 hours? Anything more than 24-hours is just abuse time.

I've come across numerous paid apps that only took me minutes to realize was complete garbage. One does not need 7-days to figure that out. Unlike a tangible, material, physical item, software will pretty much suck or not suck the moment you use it and not subject to issues like build-quality and construction issues found in real products.

It's no wonder Google refuses Taiwan's demands. I'm curious what the return metrics will be after a month or two.
post #6 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama View Post


Should work really well.

iPads could be a great war device. In the future, fighting a real war could be very similar to playing a game of Command & Conquer. I would definitely be down for that war, I'm pretty good at Command & Conquer and those types of games. One skilled operator with an iPad could take out hundreds of primitive terrorists with a simple swipe! You'd know all enemy troop movements, you'd be able to see everything on your screen and you could call in instant airstrikes just by selecting a target on the iPad screen.
post #7 of 30
This story doesn't pass the sniff test. Why would Apple have any interest to comply with the request when it would have only cost them 34K to ignore the rule like Google did? Also, how exactly is Apple implementing this return policy or is this simply a cut and paste story?
post #8 of 30
Developers can choose in which country their software is distributed. So the App Store for Taiwan will only have a bunch of free apps.
post #9 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by donarb View Post

Developers can choose in which country their software is distributed. So the App Store for Taiwan will only have a bunch of free apps.

Now that you mention it, that's true! So this isn't really a big deal after all, you're right. If any developer doesn't want their app to be abused by people on the Taiwan store, they can simply pull it.

And speaking of developers only offering their apps in certain countries, where the hell is the Yamaha TNR-i on the US app store? I think it's on the Japan store and the UK store, but it's not to be found on the US store. I hope it's there soon.
post #10 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

iPads could be a great war device. In the future, fighting a real war could be very similar to playing a game of Command & Conquer. I would definitely be down for that war, I'm pretty good at Command & Conquer and those types of games. One skilled operator with an iPad could take out hundreds of primitive terrorists with a simple swipe! You'd know all enemy troop movements, you'd be able to see everything on your screen and you could call in instant airstrikes just by selecting a target on the iPad screen.

I doubt they will be used on the battlefield. The problem with your little "skilled operator vs. primitive terrorist' scenario is that you cannot win a war against terrorists if you are civilized, ethical, just, and respectful of human life. The terrorists will use 10 year old girls as suicide bombers. Even an iPad can't help you there. In order to win a war you have to wipe out every living soul within the target area and the US is not prepared to do that. Ever since the end of WWII the US has tried to cherry pick the targets and spare civilians and they have not been able to win a war since.

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post #11 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by donarb View Post

Developers can choose in which country their software is distributed. So the App Store for Taiwan will only have a bunch of free apps.

An article over at Cnet states that Google has indeed halted the sale of paid apps for the Android platform in Taiwan. Apple should have done the same.
post #12 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Ever since the end of WWII the US has tried to cherry pick the targets and spare civilians and they have not been able to win a war since.

You're right about that, and it's a shame. Though I think that will change in the future again, depending upon unforeseen events that may happen.
post #13 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Now that you mention it, that's true! So this isn't really a big deal after all, you're right. If any developer doesn't want their app to be abused by people on the Taiwan store, they can simply pull it.

And speaking of developers only offering their apps in certain countries, where the hell is the Yamaha TNR-i on the US app store? I think it's on the Japan store and the UK store, but it's not to be found on the US store. I hope it's there soon.

Hmm, I wonder what the deal is with in-app purchases then? You buy something, it gets unlocked in the app, then you return it in iTunes and it will presumably stay valid on-device unless you delete the app and try to re-install it? Sounds great.

(And I grumble as a developer... it's not like Apple sends a push notification that someone returned their credits or unlocks. And assuming part of the purchase is online play, this is even more asking to be abused if you can't tell an actual customer from one who returned it...)
post #14 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

This will result in abuse beyond belief. You know it, and everyone else sure knows it. What's to stop someone from downloading a video game, play it through in 6.9 days and request a refund? It'll decimate the app industry.

Instead of a 7-day policy, how's about 7 hours? Anything more than 24-hours is just abuse time.

I've come across numerous paid apps that only took me minutes to realize was complete garbage. One does not need 7-days to figure that out. Unlike a tangible, material, physical item, software will pretty much suck or not suck the moment you use it and not subject to issues like build-quality and construction issues found in real products.

It's no wonder Google refuses Taiwan's demands. I'm curious what the return metrics will be after a month or two.

Maybe a 7 day refund policy would get rid of all the junk in the app store. If an app is only good for 7 days then it certainly isn't worth paying for in the first place.
post #15 of 30
"Armed with an iPad" or equipped?
post #16 of 30
Must get pretty boring in the Singaporean Army, I mean, really is there any enemy in the world small enough that they could take them on? At least this way they can challenge Andorra to a game of Angry Birds.
post #17 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwal View Post

Maybe a 7 day refund policy would get rid of all the junk in the app store. If an app is only good for 7 days then it certainly isn't worth paying for in the first place.

Not worth paying $1? I've spent more than that on a donut before now.
post #18 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Must get pretty boring in the Singaporean Army, I mean, really is there any enemy in the world small enough that they could take them on? At least this way they can challenge Andorra to a game of Angry Birds.

I'm sure they are more concerned with domestic infiltration of al Qaeda rather than any conventional foreign military.

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post #19 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Singapore soldiers get iPads

"Well, a gun would have been better, but thanks!"
(Anonymous Singaporean soldier)
post #20 of 30
Quote:
users can choose to return it and receive a full refund.

And how are they suppose to return it?! Is Apple going to remotely delete the app?
post #21 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I doubt they will be used on the battlefield. The problem with your little "skilled operator vs. primitive terrorist' scenario is that you cannot win a war against terrorists if you are civilized, ethical, just, and respectful of human life. The terrorists will use 10 year old girls as suicide bombers. Even an iPad can't help you there. In order to win a war you have to wipe out every living soul within the target area and the US is not prepared to do that. Ever since the end of WWII the US has tried to cherry pick the targets and spare civilians and they have not been able to win a war since.

Not really sure where to start with such an ignorant, uneducated post, but to say we haven't won a way since WWII is absurd. Just because wars aren't won in the weekly recap and usually take years to accomplish doesn't mean we haven't won wars.

And saying that the U.S. is somehow weak and soft because we refuse to kill innocent 10-year olds that are being forced to strap bombs to their chest and walk around with assault rifles is one of the most disgusting things I think I've ever read. Because we have a sense of morality somehow makes us worse and less capable than the enemy? I think it's exactly the opposite, and that our morals and ethics make us better. We don't fight simply to cause chaos and destruction, and we don't fight those that don't ask for it or instigate it, and we certainly don't fight innocent human beings that are just trying to live their lives. To say the terrorists are better than us because they are willing to kill children is just absurd.

</off-topic rant>
post #22 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

This will result in abuse beyond belief. You know it, and everyone else sure knows it. What's to stop someone from downloading a video game, play it through in 6.9 days and request a refund? It'll decimate the app industry.

Instead of a 7-day policy, how's about 7 hours? Anything more than 24-hours is just abuse time.

I've come across numerous paid apps that only took me minutes to realize was complete garbage. One does not need 7-days to figure that out. Unlike a tangible, material, physical item, software will pretty much suck or not suck the moment you use it and not subject to issues like build-quality and construction issues found in real products.

It's no wonder Google refuses Taiwan's demands. I'm curious what the return metrics will be after a month or two.

I agree. Certainly, if it's a game. If 5 days later, you're still playing it, it's ridiculous to say you shouldn't have to pay for it. Maybe it would be different if these were $50 apps. But they're not.

And maybe that's a point. Some apps are very, very complicated. Say I purchase a $100 monstrously complicated app, and it just takes me a few days of struggling with it to realize it's a dog. Okay, it's a dog, and please let me return it. But games... if you're still fiddling with it a couple of days later, you're PLAYING the damned thing! Don't let those people return it!!

Consider Maya (not available for iOS of course). It's hugely complicated. 7 hours with it wouldn't be enough to say whether I wanted to keep it or not. 7 days isn't even enough to know whether I'll be able to use it. But past a certain point, I have to take SOME responsibility for have done my homework. There's plenty of ways to explore that software and know whether I can use it. And that bothers me too: many apps have "lite" versions that are free. You shouldn't be allowed to return the paid versions of those. You should have been responsible enough to check the free version and see what it could do and decide on the basis of that.

</rant>
post #23 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

I agree. Certainly, if it's a game. If 5 days later, you're still playing it, it's ridiculous to say you shouldn't have to pay for it. Maybe it would be different if these were $50 apps. But they're not

</rant>

Plenty of $50 games that I've finished in under 7 days too
post #24 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

Not really sure where to start with such an ignorant, uneducated post, but to say we haven't won a way since WWII is absurd. Just because wars aren't won in the weekly recap and usually take years to accomplish doesn't mean we haven't won wars.

And saying that the U.S. is somehow weak and soft because we refuse to kill innocent 10-year olds that are being forced to strap bombs to their chest and walk around with assault rifles is one of the most disgusting things I think I've ever read. Because we have a sense of morality somehow makes us worse and less capable than the enemy? I think it's exactly the opposite, and that our morals and ethics make us better. We don't fight simply to cause chaos and destruction, and we don't fight those that don't ask for it or instigate it, and we certainly don't fight innocent human beings that are just trying to live their lives. To say the terrorists are better than us because they are willing to kill children is just absurd.

</off-topic rant>

Certainly, you misunderstand my position on war. To say that I believe that all US troops should return to our own soil would be an understatement.

War has only one rule. Completely annihilate the enemy. If you think war can be managed over a period of time, has rules of engagement or the enemy can be persuaded to make peace, you are part of the problem not the solution. This is a different time than WWII. There are no gentlemen soldiers. If you want to be a moral idealist, and respectable world citizen, then you need to retreat to your own borders and defend them to the death. To go to another land and attempt to occupy it, is complete folly.

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post #25 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

And when do we get this same 7-day return policy in the U.S.? (and the rest of the world for that matter?)

Ask your congressperson. That's how Taiwan did it.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

A $34,600 fine? That's nothing, it's peanuts.

Google makes that much money every 2 seconds.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #27 of 30
Hi, I come from Taiwan, this problem is due to Apple didn't give enough customer support in Taiwan.

The App Store in Taiwan is whole English, including Apple ID creation. Many new user has problem to learn how to using App Store, if they has any question, they must write email - in English, but, they don't understand English, so they can't find entry to contact App Store support.

about 2 weeks ago, some crap App wrote from China developer made the complaint explosion. force the government looking at it and order apple and google provide a clear refund method and apply the 7-day refund policy in Taiwan(for those can't try before you paid item).

I think if Apple could provide translated App Store and local customer support agent in Taiwan, the problem will not a issue. But in Taiwan, the Apple product never have a good support here, made the thing happen. If they did, the refund policy should be discussible, not force they just apply the current customer protect rule in short time.

So don't blame why Taiwan order Apple to do it, It's due to Apple take our 30%, but don't made the right thing. maybe Apple think Taiwan is a tiny island, tiny market. but such crap support made this, and I think after Taiwan, more and more contry will consider it.
post #28 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama View Post

Simply awesome. I think it's great that we have teenagers in the US walking around tweeting and texting, banging into telephone poles and falling into water fountains.

Now lets equip the army so they can walk around fields of land mines playing with iPhones and iPads.

Should work really well.

They get them to download minesweeper first.
post #29 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

. War has only one rule. Completely annihilate the enemy. If you think war can be managed over a period of time, has rules of engagement or the enemy can be persuaded to make peace, you are part of the problem not the solution. This is a different time than WWII. There are no gentlemen soldiers. If you want to be a moral idealist, and respectable world citizen, then you need to retreat to your own borders and defend them to the death. To go to another land and attempt to occupy it, is complete folly.

Fatuous bloviation. Obviously you've never been in the military. For starters, read Clausewitz.

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post #30 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

And when do we get this same 7-day return policy in the U.S.? (and the rest of the world for that matter?)

Actually most states already have laws on the books which would allow you to return anything you purchased within certain number of days for a complete refund. Some even have laws that say you and tear up a signed contract within a certain number of days.

You see all the time about no returns or refunds, but many times it is illegal depending on the state law. Even though when you buy software they claim it can not be returned if the shrink wrap is removed. But in state with return and refund consumer laws you are allowed to return it in spite of what the stores says or claims. The way the laws are written, any company selling or doing business in that state must abide by that states consumer laws when it comes to returns and refunds. The one I have seen make no exceptions for software, probably because the were written 30 or 40 years or longer ago.

The problem is most people have no clue these laws exist and if they do know about them they have no idea what they are legally entitle to. Because of this, stores take advantage of people, and you see it all the time.

I know in my state I have 3 days to return any items I purchase for any reason. Problem is trying to get Apple to abide by this law. I would have to make a claim with the State's Attorney General if they refused and if he got enough similar complaints then they would take actions against the company. The only good thing is Apple has a couple of stores in my State so it would not be a hard battle.
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