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Adobe courts video professionals in wake of uproar over Apple's Final Cut Pro X

post #1 of 121
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As a widespread backlash against Apple's Final Cut Pro X continues, Adobe is taking the opportunity to launch a PR offensive, drawing attention to its own non-linear editing solution.

Apple released the "revolutionary" $299 Final Cut Pro X on the Mac App Store last week and quickly found itself the target of criticism. Though response to the software has been mixed, video professionals have been especially vocal about crucial features from Final Cut Pro 7 missing in the upgrade.

"I can't believe what apple did with FCPX," one reviewer wrote on the Mac App Store, comparing the release to Microsoft's roundly criticized Windows Vista operating system update. "This is no longer a professional application... this is just an upgrade of iMovie!!"

The Cupertino, Calif., company has also drawn ire from customers by reportedly designating earlier versions of Final Cut Studio, Express and Server as "end of life." An online petition calling for Apple to either reinstate Final Cut Studio 3, restore Final Cut Pro and downgrade Final Cut Pro X to a "prosumer" product or sell the FCP 7 source code has drawn more than 4,500 signatures.

Dissatisfied customers have reported receiving refunds and surprisingly candid emails from Apple representatives as the company attempts to avoid a public relations debacle. Final Cut Pro X project managers also attempted to defuse the situation by speaking with technology journalist David Pogue to clear up some misunderstandings regarding supposed missing features in the release.

With negative publicity over Final Cut Pro X reaching a near fever pitch, Adobe is attempting to drum up support for its competing Premiere Pro. Public relations representatives for the company have called attention to documents assisting users in switching from Final Cut Pro to Premiere Pro, as well as testimonials from industry professionals using the company's products.

During the preview event for Final Cut Pro in April, Apple boasted 2 million users with a 94 percent satisfaction rate. That satisfaction rate has likely dropped significantly since the release of FCP X, as the application currently has an average rating of 2 1/2 stars with 599 1 star ratings out of a total of 1348.

Apple also claimed the Final Cut Pro user base is growing twice as fast as its competitors, with Adobe and Avid "in a race for second place." By comparison, Adobe touts 22 percent year over year growth in Adobe pro video sales and 45 percent growth on the Mac. The company boasted 2.3 million Adobe Premiere Pro seats in 2010.
post #2 of 121
I was thinking about this today.

Going from FCP7 to FCPX is a major change, literally asking everyone to relearn a new editing program. It is not FCP, it is simply a new program. Had another company put this out, it would likely fail. Adobe Premiere is more similar to FCP7 than FCPX is.. and having been a FCP user for many years, if I had to choose one right now, I would go to Adobe. Their production suite is now a better solution than FCPX. Even if they add some of the features back, I really think Apple has screwed themselves.
post #3 of 121
Called iKeys Pro X. Being touted as revolutionary, the new keyboard discards the inefficient and archaic QWERTY key arrangement in exchange for a new arrangement designed by Apple. Apple is dedicated to extending the keyboards connectivity, as currently the keyboard doesn't connect to any hardware. Nor will it work with any previously written documents. Sales off all other keyboards have declared end-of-life by Apple and are as of today, withdrawn from stores. The resulting furor from professional writers pushed Apple product managers to contact a noted blogger on children's toys and explain through her how the iKeys Pro X's supposedly missing features are actually hidden in the keyboard or are planned improvements. By Sept 2011, Apple plans to reintroduce the letter "R".

Next, Apple plans introduce their own car. It's called the Trabant.
post #4 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by september11th View Post

I was thinking about this today.

Going from FCP7 to FCPX is a major change, literally asking everyone to relearn a new editing program. It is not FCP, it is simply a new program. Had another company put this out, it would likely fail. Adobe Premiere is more similar to FCP7 than FCPX is.. and having been a FCP user for many years, if I had to choose one right now, I would go to Adobe. Their production suite is now a better solution than FCPX. Even if they add some of the features back, I really think Apple has screwed themselves.

Shh... You'll soon be called an "Apple-basher" and "whiner"... Some on these forums will even tell you, "Go ahead, use Adobe Premiere, good riddance to you".
post #5 of 121
I don't think Steve Jobs can fire anyone for this. This is not a problem of execution, this is one of faulty decisions made about product features and positioning. And my understanding is Steve Jobs and only Steve Jobs makes that call.
post #6 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mKunert View Post

Called iKeys Pro X. Being touted as revolutionary, the new keyboard discards the inefficient and archaic QWERTY key arrangement in exchange for a new arrangement designed by Apple. Apple is dedicated to extending the keyboards connectivity, as currently the keyboard doesn't connect to any hardware. Nor will it work with any previously written documents. Sales off all other keyboards have declared end-of-life by Apple and are as of today, withdrawn from stores. The resulting furor from customers pushed Apple product managers to contacted a noted blogger on the price of tea in China, and explain to her how some of missing features are actually hidden in the keyboard and or planned improvements. By Sept 2011, Apple plans to reintroduce the letter "R".

Brilliant first post! I'll take the liberty of quoting it in the other Final Cut Pro X thread.
post #7 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by september11th View Post

I was thinking about this today.

Going from FCP7 to FCPX is a major change, literally asking everyone to relearn a new editing program. It is not FCP, it is simply a new program. Had another company put this out, it would likely fail. Adobe Premiere is more similar to FCP7 than FCPX is.. and having been a FCP user for many years, if I had to choose one right now, I would go to Adobe. Their production suite is now a better solution than FCPX. Even if they add some of the features back, I really think Apple has screwed themselves.

The true problem isn't that FCP X sucks, but Apple's corporate DNA is so against how professionals need them to work, it's probably in everyone's best interest to move to a different environment completely.

Apple has screwed us once, what's to stop them from doing so again?
post #8 of 121
I encourage any angry professional video editor to switch to Adobe Premier and buy a PC with Microsoft Windows too at the same time. I'm sure you'll have a good time without Apple software. FCPX is a revolutionary new product at a truly remarkable price. Apple leads the way again.
post #9 of 121
You watch television to turn your brain off and you work on your computer when you want to turn your brain on. Steve Jobs

Computing for Jobs has always been about making things better and engaging your brain at all times. If Premiere is a safe heaven for your skills and you are unwilling to learn new paths then perhaps it is the platform for you.
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post #10 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Some on these forums will even tell you, "Go ahead, use Adobe Premiere, good riddance to you".

Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

I encourage any angry professional video editor to switch to Adobe Premier and buy a PC with Microsoft Windows too at the same time. I'm sure you'll have a good time without Apple software. FCPX is a revolutionary new product at a truly remarkable price. Apple leads the way again.

I'd say it's on the spot....
post #11 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

I encourage any angry professional video editor to switch to Adobe Premier and buy a PC with Microsoft Windows too at the same time. I'm sure you'll have a good time without Apple software. FCPX is a revolutionary new product at a truly remarkable price. Apple leads the way again.

That you, Steve?
post #12 of 121
Wait a minute. Let me get this right.

Editors are going to give up their current FCP7 Final Cut Studio and start using Premiere Pro, just because they don't like the Final Cut Pro X upgrade ?

I don't think so!

They will upgrade to Final Cut Pro when it includes the futures that they need and want and it becomes compelling to do so.

But move to Premiere Pro from FCP7? Not a chance!
post #13 of 121
It's Microsoft's long-term business strategy: wait until the other guy stumbles.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #14 of 121
Back to the old days. Spend another $30k and buy all the competing solutions on all platforms, spend thousands of hours learning all the nuances of each platform and then wait for the market shake out to decide which one will be the industry standard.

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post #15 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrr View Post

Wait a minute. Let me get this right.

Editors are going to give up their current FCP7 Final Cut Studio and start using Premiere Pro, just because they don't like the Final Cut Pro X upgrade ?

I don't think so!

They will upgrade to Final Cut Pro when it includes the futures that they need and want and it becomes compelling to do so.

But move to Premiere Pro from FCP7? Not a chance!

We cannot get any further FCP7 licenses.

We cannot get any further FCP7 updates.

What else do you expect us to do? Hang around with a finite number of copies and no support? Sorry, not happening.

We have no roadmap, and now, zero confidence in Apple to get us to some mythical version of FCPX that will make it possible to do our jobs.
post #16 of 121
A lot of people commenting in this don't even realize just HOW bad this thing is. It's nit just functionality, it's the whole package. How do you install it on 300 workstations legally? Do you need 300 iTunes accounts to get it from the app store? Why can't you import old projects? So I'm working on a documentary since 2005, I have to keep it on an old workstation? Why can't I open multiple projects at the same time? What about multiple libraries?

You can't even share projects amongst different editors or export to other professional software. If the sae treatment is given to Logic, Apple's professional credibility will be shot.

Check out this podcast

http://library.creativecow.net/harri...iscardi/FCPX/1

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Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
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post #17 of 121
Talk about overblown.

Give it some time. Features will be added. Ecosystem will develop. Folks will get some experience with it. And perspective will be gained.

Right now you're just hearing a mob, fearful of change, picking the low hanging fruit and whining about it.

The low hanging fruit being the easy to spot missing features. Something any idiot can whine about from the comfort of their armchair without ever having touched the product.
post #18 of 121
As a professional editor, I was looking forward to Final Cut Pro X. I was completely willing to embrace a new way to edit.

That said, my clients would never hire me again if I used what Apple's put out.

Why?

Well, when I cut features I have ensure that my audio tracks are organized properly for the sound mixer for OMF exports.

Now there's a new way of thinking that I thought Apple could have approached to this process that would have been RADICALLY better and still not require that editors need to have tracks. But they didnt even think about it. Because they didnt care about thinking different with pros.

When I cut stuff for TV. I am constantly sharing XMLs with compositors and graphics designers all the time.

Not to mention EDLs for colorists...because there's no such thing as Color anymore.

FC 7 doesnt do what I need that well today compared to other software (AVID and Adobe). I was considering switching to AVID (which I started cutting on years ago) actually a few months back, but some apple software team people encouraged me to hang in there.

Shame on me.

Back to AVID...
post #19 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by trip1ex View Post

Talk about overblown.

Give it some time. Features will be added. Ecosystem will develop. Folks will get some experience with it. And perspective will be gained.

Right now you're just hearing a mob, fearful of change, picking the low hanging fruit and whining about it.

The low hanging fruit being the easy to spot missing features. Something any idiot can whine about from the comfort of their armchair without ever having touched the product.

You're being absolutely ridiculous. Try actually reading the critiques.
post #20 of 121
In case of last resort there is always cinelerra.org

At least it is free and open source so they won't pull it of the shelves unexpectedly.

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post #21 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by trip1ex View Post

Talk about overblown.

Give it some time. Features will be added. Ecosystem will develop. Folks will get some experience with it. And perspective will be gained.

Right now you're just hearing a mob, fearful of change, picking the low hanging fruit and whining about it.

The low hanging fruit being the easy to spot missing features. Something any idiot can whine about from the comfort of their armchair without ever having touched the product.

This is an excellent post. The above should be make a sticky post on the forum for a week, because it's essential reading for everyone who is doubting Apple.
post #22 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mKunert View Post

Called iKeys Pro X. Being touted as revolutionary, the new keyboard discards the inefficient and archaic QWERTY key arrangement in exchange for a new arrangement designed by Apple. Apple is dedicated to extending the keyboards connectivity, as currently the keyboard doesn't connect to any hardware. Nor will it work with any previously written documents. Sales off all other keyboards have declared end-of-life by Apple and are as of today, withdrawn from stores. The resulting furor from professional writers pushed Apple product managers to contact a noted blogger on children's toys and explain through her how the iKeys Pro X's supposedly missing features are actually hidden in the keyboard or are planned improvements. By Sept 2011, Apple plans to reintroduce the letter "R".

Next, Apple plans introduce their own car. It's called the Trabant.

If they switched to Dvorak, it would actually be a good thing. The QWERTY keyboard was initially designed to b as inefficient as possible, so switching would be good for everyone, but, like so many current technologies, it won't ever become commonplace because most people don't want to change if it is good enough.

In regards to Final cut, apple would have been better off to call this the new final cut express, which they have killed in this process, and then called it final cut once they added all the features back into it.
post #23 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quevar View Post

In regards to Final cut, apple would have been better off to call this the new final cut express, which they have killed in this process, and then called it final cut once they added all the features back into it.

Better yet they should not use the words final or cut in reference to this software.

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post #24 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorGonzo View Post

We cannot get any further FCP7 licenses.

We cannot get any further FCP7 updates.

What else do you expect us to do? Hang around with a finite number of copies and no support? Sorry, not happening.

We have no roadmap, and now, zero confidence in Apple to get us to some mythical version of FCPX that will make it possible to do our jobs.

If a product that you desire is no longer being sold, the moral barrier keeping one from seeking it out using bittorrent is much lower. I am not advocating this, just saying that it would not surprise me a bit if one were to see the number of seeds of FCP7 increasing. Apple is giving some users no choice; if one needs to add FCP seats, you can't add FCPX to a FCP7 shop. The *only* solution is to obtain more FCP7 any way one can. Apple is going to turn some honest users into pirates with its muleheadedness.
post #25 of 121
Reason I moved to Apple after 25 years with Microsoft was the arrogance in how they treated customers... Dumping working products, replacing them with absolute bloated crap software... Spending endless hours on their tech support lines trying to get simple things to work again...

Impressed with Apple's customer focus, I left Microsoft...

Now Apple is following Microsoft pathway to arrogance... Moving the stuff in Mobile Me that didn't work to iCloud and axing working products... Untold hours of work going in to the toilet... Being told go find some unknown company to take care of my software needs... I feel sorry for those using Final Cut, you too are getting the same treatment...

Apple's customer focus, has morphed to company focus... Move over Microsoft, Apple is taking your place... This is a rerun of a horror movie, I just watched...
post #26 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

I encourage any angry professional video editor to switch to Adobe Premier and buy a PC with Microsoft Windows too at the same time. I'm sure you'll have a good time without Apple software. FCPX is a revolutionary new product at a truly remarkable price. Apple leads the way again.

You do know that there is a Mac version of the software so you do not have to use Windows.
post #27 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrr View Post

Wait a minute. Let me get this right.

Editors are going to give up their current FCP7 Final Cut Studio and start using Premiere Pro, just because they don't like the Final Cut Pro X upgrade ?

I don't think so!

They will upgrade to Final Cut Pro when it includes the futures that they need and want and it becomes compelling to do so.

But move to Premiere Pro from FCP7? Not a chance!

I don't expect FCP7 users to switch to Adobe or FCPX in the near future, but as of now Apple is no longer supporting FCP7. The problem is, there is no guarantee at all that Apple will truly fix FCPX and give it all the features it used to have. The choice to close it down so much was deliberate, and while they will put some things back, it may never be good enough for the same market. Adobe is still supporting and improving what they have, which is not bad. FCPX was actually playing catchup to Adobe in many ways. As I said in another post, coming from a FCP background, learning Adobe may actually be easier than learning FCPX. In a year, we will see what Apple has done to resolve this, but if it is still not where FCP was years ago, this is when people will legitimately consider Adobe. I personally think Apple is willingly exiting this pro market.
post #28 of 121
'Adobe is attempting to drum up support for its competing Premiere Pro. Public relations representatives for the company have called attention to documents assisting users in switching from Final Cut Pro to Premiere Pro, as well as testimonials from industry professionals using the company's products.'

That is the only part of the entire 'article' that actually pertains to the title. Why was this even written???
post #29 of 121
Fcp7 is still a solid platform, however is becoming outdated very quickly. Fcpx was supposed to keep the ball running. Two studios we have work with use fcp7 & avid, and have been introducing premier on some systems simply as fcp7 was lacking these features while awaiting for the release of Fcpx hoping to bridge the gap and take it a step further than the rest.
I haven't spoken to the teams yet on fcpx, but will be interested to see how they incorporate it into their workflow, or at least plan to if anything.
post #30 of 121
I think Apple's arrogance is finally coming to a head. I love Apple but it was just a matter of time before they did something that would make them look like jerks. This one backlash could cost Steve Jobs his role in Pixar/Disney and break trust that Apple is always going to do the right thing for it's consumers.

I never thought I would say this, but I have to compare this with Microsoft's Windows 95. Microsoft got such a big head over their software, they thought they were untouchable.

No one company can sustain such power for so long. This could be the beginning of Apple's stock downfall.
post #31 of 121
Can all you professionals just shut your yap and understand why Apple has released the product they have?

Apple had a fully new and far more powerful app they were working on. However the application is different to the old archaic app that they figured people would need time to get used to it before using it mainstream.

On the other hand prosumers have been without an update for years and so Apple figured release the app they currently have to the public because it will be more than enough for prosumers but would give the professionals a chance to get used to the new interface.

So what do I see? I see pros completely write this new version off simply because it doesn't do what they need to do now. This is totally retarded because this way of thinking is why Windows is still such a crappy product... Because the businesses are too cheap to learn new and better ways and instead insist that their old crap continues to work on the new OS versions.

Apple isn't so backwards thinking and chooses to progress. Does it annoy a FEW users? Yes it does but it's also why they are now worth more than Microsoft.

Learn now while continuing to do what you do or get left behind when FCPX gets to the level which FCP 7 currently is. I mean seriously, are you so hard done by plonking down $300 for the next version and learn it? If you are then you must seriously suck at your job to be earning so little.

Face the fact that you are going to get left behind if you still cling to the old ways.
post #32 of 121
FCPX is obviously a better program. I think it's good for Adobe to package the software into a production suite for anyone not so much into editing, but may have the occasional need to do some basic editing or capture. Especially for people like Motion graphics artists, but to compare Premier even to FCPX would be a hard sell for Adobe. Editors know better and honestly the learning curve from FCP7 to Premier is probably steeper potential "switcher" than from FCP7 to Premier. Avid would be abetter choice for pro's and FCP7 for prosumers.
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post #33 of 121
I know *some* people are up in arms about this but from what I've read on the internet, FCP X also has made huge leaps forward in how it handles editing that no other competitor can currently match.

Apple rewrote it from the ground up and I reckon it's ground breaking. As soon as Apple adds support for importing and exporting to/from certain formats, I reckon it will be wiping the floor with the competition.

Apple have always had the courage to do what they think is best, despite initial criticism, and in the end they are always right.

Remember the mac, iPod, iPhone and iPad? Many of those projects were criticised by others (ahem..Steve Ballmer) and look how great they all turned out.

FCP X will soon be regarded the no. 1 movie editing software package again, and those who go with Adobe are making a serious mistake. Seriously, most Adobe products are rubbish and don't hold a candle next to Apple's products.

Well done Steve and Apple for having the balls to lead the way forward.
post #34 of 121
Give it a few more days and I think everyone will find out that Apple will be offering FC7 to anyone who needs more seats...
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post #35 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowededwookie View Post

Can all you professionals just shut your yap and understand why Apple has released the product they have?

Apple had a fully new and far more powerful app they were working on. However the application is different to the old archaic app that they figured people would need time to get used to it before using it mainstream.

On the other hand prosumers have been without an update for years and so Apple figured release the app they currently have to the public because it will be more than enough for prosumers but would give the professionals a chance to get used to the new interface.

So what do I see? I see pros completely write this new version off simply because it doesn't do what they need to do now. This is totally retarded because this way of thinking is why Windows is still such a crappy product... Because the businesses are too cheap to learn new and better ways and instead insist that their old crap continues to work on the new OS versions.

Apple isn't so backwards thinking and chooses to progress. Does it annoy a FEW users? Yes it does but it's also why they are now worth more than Microsoft.

Learn now while continuing to do what you do or get left behind when FCPX gets to the level which FCP 7 currently is. I mean seriously, are you so hard done by plonking down $300 for the next version and learn it? If you are then you must seriously suck at your job to be earning so little.

Face the fact that you are going to get left behind if you still cling to the old ways.

A classic Microsoft response 10 years ago... I rest my case... Apple arrogance...
post #36 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorGonzo View Post

We cannot get any further FCP7 licenses.

We cannot get any further FCP7 updates.

What else do you expect us to do? Hang around with a finite number of copies and no support? Sorry, not happening.

We have no roadmap, and now, zero confidence in Apple to get us to some mythical version of FCPX that will make it possible to do our jobs.

i would expect apple to begin selling FCP7 seats again very, very soon.

really i'm surprised they would stop selling it immediately as they did. they didn't do that with OS9
post #37 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowededwookie View Post

Can all you professionals just shut your yap and understand why Apple has released the product they have?

Apple had a fully new and far more powerful app they were working on. However the application is different to the old archaic app that they figured people would need time to get used to it before using it mainstream.

On the other hand prosumers have been without an update for years and so Apple figured release the app they currently have to the public because it will be more than enough for prosumers but would give the professionals a chance to get used to the new interface.

So what do I see? I see pros completely write this new version off simply because it doesn't do what they need to do now. This is totally retarded because this way of thinking is why Windows is still such a crappy product... Because the businesses are too cheap to learn new and better ways and instead insist that their old crap continues to work on the new OS versions.

Apple isn't so backwards thinking and chooses to progress. Does it annoy a FEW users? Yes it does but it's also why they are now worth more than Microsoft.

Learn now while continuing to do what you do or get left behind when FCPX gets to the level which FCP 7 currently is. I mean seriously, are you so hard done by plonking down $300 for the next version and learn it? If you are then you must seriously suck at your job to be earning so little.

Face the fact that you are going to get left behind if you still cling to the old ways.

Pro is a synonym for moron these days. There are plenty of new young qualified people to tkae their place, so nothing to worry about.

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post #38 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by woolie View Post

A classic Microsoft response 10 years ago... I rest my case... Apple arrogance...

i mean...the guy has some point...FCP7 was desperately in need of a user interface overhaul.

and i'm not a pro video editor, but most of the complaints seem to be:

- my addons don't work! (always true of new releases)
- i can't import my old FCP7 projects (?? so i guess you never make new films? your FCP7 projects are FCP7 projects, finish your movie in FCP7 and move on)
- file management (apple has explained how to choose your file locations)
- multicam (apple said they are bringing it back)

severe backlash for a program that's really truly almost there. truly the reason for the backlash is that they changed where the buttons are!
post #39 of 121
Professionals? Yeah Right!

People who do not adjust to the new Final Cut Pro X will lose in the longer term. FCP X users will have will have a huge advantage in organizing their data better, by editing and rendering faster, more accurately in a richer environment.

These folks are upset because FCP X is different and it does not import their old projects. That's understandable, some people are very passionate about their tools. Some people may have to pay for training again. However, in terms of editing power FCP X is years ahead.

If an old dog refuses to learn new tricks, it can be replaced by a better and more modern dog.

FCP X will win over a lot of new Users because of it's ease of use and power.

Time will tell.
post #40 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

I think Apple's arrogance is finally coming to a head. I love Apple but it was just a matter of time before they did something that would make them look like jerks. This one backlash could cost Steve Jobs his role in Pixar/Disney and break trust that Apple is always going to do the right thing for it's consumers.

I never thought I would say this, but I have to compare this with Microsoft's Windows 95. Microsoft got such a big head over their software, they thought they were untouchable.

No one company can sustain such power for so long. This could be the beginning of Apple's stock downfall.

what arrogance?
- agents have given refunds and admitted faults
- apple has promised to add many removed features (multicam)
- many complaints are unwarranted (apple explained how to change file locations)
- apple listens to feedback. it's why the ipod touch has volume buttons, for example. their secrecy and willingness to leave behind the past can sometimes piss people off, but that's not arrogance.

if you don't totally throw out old code eventually you end up with something like....well like every old adobe product. apple believes that it's best to throw out code at the proper time and start over if software technologies have progressed far enough. i agree with this notion and i agree with the stance that it makes for feature barren software in the near term (mac os 10.0-10.1, imovie 08)
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