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Supply of Apple's white MacBook severely constrained ahead of Lion debut - Page 2

post #41 of 153
6/29/11 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

With the popularity and price point of the MacBook Air, the white MacBook really makes no sense. At that point, the MBA should just become the new MacBook.

Completely agree.
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post #42 of 153
6/29/11 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercurysquad View Post

I think that's a very myopic view people take. This might be true in the US, but outside of the US the situation is completely different.

In India the white MacBook costs $1356 and the MBP 13" costs $1556. At those prices, the white MacBook is a very attractive choice considering that hardware/component wise they are almost the same minus some extra features like better casing, backlit keyboard etc. (assuming we're comparing same generation MB and MBPs).

I think the white MacBook is here to stay. I also read somewhere (sorry no citation) that the white MacBook is the highest selling mac. (I own the current model, and even prefer this design to the aluminium one). The educational discount is now only 6% here - I was lucky to get mine when it was still 12% - and it still cost me $1191. Basically I paid more for the white MB under edu discount than a person in the US would pay for the aluminum MBP. If the white MacBook is discontinued, the cheapest Apple laptop you could buy would cost $1500+ in the Indian market, and possibly a whole lot of non-Western-non-affluent markets would simply not be able to afford a mac.

A major market for Apple is not India, sorry to say. In their major markets, MBPs do very well with college students.
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post #43 of 153
6/29/11 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

I'm talking college here, school buyers are a whole nother thing.



I think budget does matter, almost every student who I ever knew who owned a PC laptop gave price as the reason. There were a few exceptions who were hard core Windows geeks, but in every other case it came down to cash.

Let's put this into perspective, the MacBook is the 9th best selling notebook on Amazon. That's hardly a product that needs putting out of its misery.

If Apple thinks they have a better solution, they will do whatever they think is best. We certainly won't all agree with it.
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post #44 of 153
6/29/11 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

I think there is a very good chance that the new MacBook (if there will be one) and at least the new 13" and probably also the 11" MacBook Air will have 4GB RAM as the new minimum. Apple have already transitioned all of the other Macs except the Mini to 4GB minimum.

Yes, I would agree with that. But I was talking about more fundamental changes. Changes in the case, display, ports, etc., that would make a different model.
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post #45 of 153
6/29/11 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

I can imagine a new MacBook Air with:

Sandy Bridge (obvious)
only the built-in graphics (to keep the price down and increase battery life)
the current poor 1280x800 rather than 1440x900 (because of the limited graphics power and to keep the price down)
Thunderbolt (because Apple need to increase the installed base)
4GB RAM (up from the current 2GB)
320GB HD (up from the current 250GB)
no internal Optical Brick (to reduce weight, promote iTunes, and keep the price down)
$899

Are you sure you mean the MB Air and not the white Macbook?
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post #46 of 153
6/29/11 at 10:24am
Unfortunately guys, I have to leave until the evening. You can stomp on me meanwhile.
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post #47 of 153
6/29/11 at 10:26am
How does this work, to get a just finished OS on the hardware? Can apple build up an inventory of macbooks and airs and then flash them with the new OS? Wouldn't they have to keep them unboxed to do that?

I just don't understand, if Mac OS X is going to be finished soon, how do they have time to produce enough macbooks and airs for a refresh between the time of finishing Lion and the date mentioned here, assuming Lion isn't GM yet?
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post #48 of 153
6/29/11 at 10:31am
I personally don't like the look of the white Macbook, I never did, and I would be glad to see Apple finally drop it completely. Go buy a Macbook Air instead. If somebody needs more power or features, then go buy a Macbook Pro. Some people can even get by with just an iPad.

All things must come to an end eventually, and the white Macbook should be retired.
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post #49 of 153
6/29/11 at 10:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I still think,, along with some others, that the Macbook will be discontinued at some point. Possibly that time is now.

The low end MacBook Pro is just a couple of hundred bucks more. So people who need those features can migrate up to that. The rest may be happier with an Air.

Agreed.
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post #50 of 153
6/29/11 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple? View Post

How does this work, to get a just finished OS on the hardware? Can apple build up an inventory of macbooks and airs and then flash them with the new OS? Wouldn't they have to keep them unboxed to do that?

I just don't understand, if Mac OS X is going to be finished soon, how do they have time to produce enough macbooks and airs for a refresh between the time of finishing Lion and the date mentioned here, assuming Lion isn't GM yet?

They do it wirelessly en masse when they are in the boxes. (kidding)
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post #51 of 153
6/29/11 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I personally don't like the look of the white Macbook, I never did, and I would be glad to see Apple finally drop it completely. Go buy a Macbook Air instead. If somebody needs more power or features, then go buy a Macbook Pro. Some people can even get by with just an iPad.

All things must come to an end eventually, and the white Macbook should be retired.

I agree. It seems that this year might be the time to let this ugly old thing go, regardless of sales.

The only real question is will the new MacBook Airs be called "MacBook Airs" or "MacBooks"?
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post #52 of 153
6/29/11 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I remember when laptops were useless for any serious computing. Now, some people think the same thing is true for the iPad, but you're wrong.

Call me when there's an iOS development environment that runs on iOS. Until then the iPad will remain a device rather than a true computer.
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post #53 of 153
6/29/11 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I agree. It seems that this year might be the time to let this ugly old thing go, regardless of sales.

The only real question is will the new MacBook Airs be called "MacBook Airs" or "MacBooks"?

I was just thinking along the same lines, if it is EOL the MacBook monica would then be available for something, if not the MBA then what? It's a pretty good name to go to waste.
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post #54 of 153
6/29/11 at 10:46am
Should have happened in fall of aught eight when the MacBook Collector's Edition came out...
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post #55 of 153
6/29/11 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

if they do that, then it IS an MBP, and the MB has gone away.

No way! If the label the product MacBook without the pro moniker then it's a MacBook. You can't argue that. There is no leeway to say otherwise.
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post #56 of 153
6/29/11 at 10:48am
I think Apple's economies of scale are large enough that a slightly more diverse product line makes economic sense compared to five years ago as a result of much higher overall Mac sales. Therefore, I would be a bit surprised if Apple were to discontinue the white plastic MacBook. It just had a fundamental case redesign in October 2009.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Yes, I would agree with that. But I was talking about more fundamental changes. Changes in the case, display, ports, etc., that would make a different model.

Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tru_canuk View Post

Are you sure you mean the MB Air and not the white Macbook?

You're right. Thanks. Good catch. I've edited the previous post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple? View Post

Can apple build up an inventory of macbooks and airs and then flash them with the new OS? Wouldn't they have to keep them unboxed to do that?

Yes and yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple? View Post

I just don't understand, if Mac OS X is going to be finished soon, how do they have time to produce enough macbooks and airs for a refresh between the time of finishing Lion and the date mentioned here, assuming Lion isn't GM yet?

Apple always have to spend some time producing new products and building up some inventory before they start shipping. Of course, it would be more convenient to stock them up in the retail boxes, but I'm sure the factories can deal with automated stacking of un-boxed products waiting to have the OS installed onto special pallets.
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post #57 of 153
6/29/11 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Call me when there's an iOS development environment that runs on iOS. Until then the iPad will remain a device rather than a true computer.

We've had this discussion about 1000 times But I get your point about development.

But I tell you what, I created some amazing music (well I thought so lol) on a new iPad 2 with Garage Band when I was stuck in a condo in White Mountains during a rainy week last month. Sucked it into my MBP and Garage Band on the Mac then into Logic Pro when I got home and took it from there. I was amazed. It sure seemed like a computer to me given I could do more than I could in Digital Performer and a Quadra 840 av a decade ago and that was a computer wasn't it?
(Quadra 840 av jokes here).
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post #58 of 153
6/29/11 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I would be very surprised if most engineering students are using MBs instead of MBPs.

Indeed, in all photos takes in college students in various classes we've seen over the years, the preponderance is for MBPs, no matter what the coursework is, science, engineering, art, or journalism. MBs seem a distant second.

A few years ago I was at a top british research university wasting time that should have been spent doing a PhD in Theoretical Physics. Between the 10 or so grad students at that time there was only one of us (me) with an MBP. There were 2 macbooks, 3 dells and an underpowered sony monstrosity. Oh and an old thinkpad running Linux. Several people didn't even have a notebook at all.

My key point is that the MacBook is a strong seller. There's no need for it not to remain a strong seller if it's well priced. There's no reason for it not to be keenly priced since it doesn't cannibalize MBP or MBA sales. Why should Apple stop serving that part of the market if it can serve it profitably?
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post #59 of 153
6/29/11 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

We've had this discussion about 1000 times But I get your point about development.

But I tell you what, I created some amazing music (well I thought so lol) on a new iPad 2 with Garage Band when I was stuck in a condo in White Mountains during a rainy week last month. Sucked it into my MBP and Garage Band on the Mac then into Logic Pro when I got home and took it from there. I was amazed. It sure seemed like a computer to me given I could do more than I could in Digital Performer and a Quadra 840 av a decade ago and that was a computer wasn't it?
(Quadra 840 av jokes here).

The iPad is a potentially amazing tool for creating musical content, but then so are guitars and pianos and nobody calls them computers Just because something is a device doesn't mean it's not powerful, or flexible, or useful for both creation and consumption. I'm not using the word as a perjorative.

I would go so far as to say that the reason that the iPad has succeeded where previous tablets failed is because it is a really good device and not a really bad computer.
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post #60 of 153
6/29/11 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

A few years ago I was at a top british research university wasting time that should have been spent doing a PhD in Theoretical Physics. Between the 10 or so grad students at that time there was only one of us (me) with an MBP. There were 2 macbooks, 3 dells and an underpowered sony monstrosity. Oh and an old thinkpad running Linux. Several people didn't even have a notebook at all.

When I went to university there was one guy that actually had a scientific calculator, 3 of us had slide rules and 4 people had nothing at all.

Sorry... I just thought I'd throw that in there...
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post #61 of 153
6/29/11 at 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

When I went to university there was one guy that actually had a scientific calculator, 3 of us had slide rules and 4 people had nothing at all.

Sorry... I just thought I'd throw that in there...

Slide rules are pro.
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post #62 of 153
6/29/11 at 12:19pm
I predict; MacBook will get low end Core i3, Thunderwear, 4 GB memory, 320 GB hard drive, and nothing else will change. Pricing will remain the same as always, as will the optical drive.

When people consider a low end Mac, price is a major consideration. So an extra $200 for a pro model is a lot of money. Many of those buyers won't have a second computer so they need a good bit of storage space, an optical drive and a real computer as opposed to an iPad.

Some of you forget that a computer is a major purchase, and a Mac is a huge step up in price compared to Windows options. So $999 for a well-equipped Mac looks a lot better than $1199. The $999 MacBook Air is not very well-equipped, even though it's a great second computer.
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post #63 of 153
6/29/11 at 12:37pm
I predict they'll add the black model back to the Macbook lineup
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post #64 of 153
6/29/11 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercurysquad View Post

I think that's a very myopic view people take. This might be true in the US, but outside of the US the situation is completely different.

In India the white MacBook costs $1356 and the MBP 13" costs $1556. At those prices, the white MacBook is a very attractive choice considering that hardware/component wise they are almost the same minus some extra features like better casing, backlit keyboard etc. (assuming we're comparing same generation MB and MBPs).

I think the white MacBook is here to stay. I also read somewhere (sorry no citation) that the white MacBook is the highest selling mac. (I own the current model, and even prefer this design to the aluminium one). The educational discount is now only 6% here - I was lucky to get mine when it was still 12% - and it still cost me $1191. Basically I paid more for the white MB under edu discount than a person in the US would pay for the aluminum MBP. If the white MacBook is discontinued, the cheapest Apple laptop you could buy would cost $1500+ in the Indian market, and possibly a whole lot of non-Western-non-affluent markets would simply not be able to afford a mac.

India's markup totally sucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

I can imagine a new MacBook with:

Sandy Bridge (obvious)
only the built-in graphics (to keep the price down and increase battery life)
the current poor 1280x800 rather than 1440x900 (because of the limited graphics power and to keep the price down)
Thunderbolt (because Apple need to increase the installed base)
4GB RAM (up from the current 2GB)
320GB HD (up from the current 250GB)
no internal Optical Brick (to reduce weight, promote iTunes, and keep the price down)
$899

Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

if a macbook goes for $799 or so and gets sandy bridge i'm all over it.

$799 would be a real sweet spot in pricing for a new MacBook. Sure, the margins would be lower for Apple, but I think that would be made up for in sheer volumeespecially among high school students, college students (english/history/communications/other non-science & non-design majors), writers and reporters in newsrooms. It would also be a great way to bring a whole new generation into the Apple/Mac fold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aross99 View Post

I agree. For those students/people coming from the Windows world of $500 laptops, the jump to $999 is barely reachable. $1,199 is too much for that segment of the market - and they need 13" screens...

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Do you really think that if Apple discontinues the MB, students will gravitate to a Windows notebook? I doubt it.

Actually, I do. Parents buying their child their first laptop for school will likely look at price before anything else. The child will want a MacBook or MBP or something, but the parents will say "Yeah, but this [insert Wintel brand here] is so much cheaper!!!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I agree. It seems that this year might be the time to let this ugly old thing go, regardless of sales.

It's certainly not the prettiest laptop around, but I think at a $799 price point, it will look a lot prettier!
Quote:
The only real question is will the new MacBook Airs be called "MacBook Airs" or "MacBooks"?

It would be nice if Apple provided a couple of options at the low end: $799 as the low-price Apple laptop (for those who don't need high end graphics or processing power); $999 for an ultra-portable and super-swanky laptop (aka MBA).
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

When I went to university there was one guy that actually had a scientific calculator, 3 of us had slide rules and 4 people had nothing at all.

Sorry... I just thought I'd throw that in there...

Butthead: Huh-huh... dude. you're old.
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post #65 of 153
6/29/11 at 1:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

$799 would be a real sweet spot in pricing for a new MacBook. Sure, the margins would be lower for Apple, but I think that would be made up for in sheer volume....

Dropping the optical brick would allow Apple to lower the price to $899 while maintaining margins.
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post #66 of 153
6/29/11 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Dropping the optical brick would allow Apple to lower the price to $899 while maintaining margins.

Another one of those things that is still needed for the worldwide market. People in the UK still rent DVDs for example, quaint I know.
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post #67 of 153
6/29/11 at 2:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Another one of those things that is still needed for the worldwide market. People in the UK still rent DVDs for example, quaint I know.

Renting DVDs was one reason why I didn't consider the Air for my primary machine as a college student.
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post #68 of 153
6/29/11 at 2:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

I disagree. My wife's entire school division bought "mini Dells" which only have about 10" screens.

When I was in middle school a few years ago my school bought those, tiny little screens and awfully small keyboards. We threw a fit so they gave them to the elementary school! lol
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post #69 of 153
6/29/11 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Another one of those things that is still needed for the worldwide market. People in the UK still rent DVDs for example, quaint I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

Renting DVDs was one reason why I didn't consider the Air for my primary machine as a college student.

Compared to renting a DVD, renting movies from iTunes is cheaper, higher resolution, you get 30 days, you don't have to go somewhere to get the DVD, you don't have to return it, there is no risk of late fees, and you get instant gratification. I can't think of a single (lawful) advantage of renting a DVD.
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post #70 of 153
6/29/11 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Compared to renting a DVD, renting movies from iTunes is cheaper, higher resolution, you get 30 days, you don't have to go somewhere to get the DVD, you don't have to return it, there is no risk of late fees, and you get instant gratification. I can't think of a single (lawful) advantage of renting a DVD.

Internet.
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post #71 of 153
6/29/11 at 3:03pm
I don't think the polycarbonate Macbook is going away. A new version will look substantially the same, but be a bit thinner, and lose the optical drive. It should (but probably won't) go down in price a bit.
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post #72 of 153
6/29/11 at 3:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Compared to renting a DVD, renting movies from iTunes is cheaper, higher resolution, you get 30 days, you don't have to go somewhere to get the DVD, you don't have to return it, there is no risk of late fees, and you get instant gratification. I can't think of a single (lawful) advantage of renting a DVD.

Ok I'll try to explain this to you using small words. You can't do that here. How was that?

The number of movies that are available for rent on iTunes in the UK is very small, TV shows are not available at all for rent. Even sale of shows and movies are erratic in the UK store. For example you can get grey's anatomy Seasons 1,2,3,4 & 7 in the UK but not Seasons 5 or 6. You can get Star Trek Voyager seasons 1 but no further. You can get DS9 S1-3, at $50 per season. Buffy at $30 per season.

I actually do get my media on iTunes but then I maintain a US account using a friends postal address and prepaid cards bought online, so I have access to the US store.
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post #73 of 153
6/29/11 at 3:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

if a macbook goes for $799 or so and gets sandy bridge i'm all over it

i have an android phone, wife iphone 4 and we have an ipad 2 in the house. 2 work laptops. the laptops rarely get used. the ipad and phones get used the most. my wife wants a Mac but i could care less. this would fit the bill. all i need a laptop for is to hold the itunes library and our photos.

$1199 for a computer in 2011 is way too much. i don't care about backlit keyboards, aluminum, titanium, adamantium, IPS, super duper GPU's or the faster i7's. i need a simple laptop to hold some data and i don't want a desktop to take up space

I agree...I would be happy with my iP4, an iPad 2 and iCloud. I do have an orig. intel iMac that won't be able to get the Lion upgrade. I went to the Apple store and looked at the 27" iMac. So beautiful but way too much computer to do as you say...hold photos and music. I thought then about getting an 11" MBA which I'm leaning towards, but carrying an MBA and my iPad and my iP4 seems a bit silly.

Oh well, I have a sneaky suspicion my old trusty intel iMac will last a couple of more years! Drats, I really like the look of the new iMac 27"

Best
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post #74 of 153
6/29/11 at 4:48pm
They aren't going to update the white MacBook. Its history, Done. Over. That handwriting has been on the wall quite a while. The recent sales success of the Air only put the last nail in the coffin.
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post #75 of 153
6/29/11 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I still think,, along with some others, that the Macbook will be discontinued at some point. Possibly that time is now.

The low end MacBook Pro is just a couple of hundred bucks more. So people who need those features can migrate up to that. The rest may be happier with an Air.

A couple hundred bucks is quite a difference for many people. Especially students, those looking for the cheapest possible Mac notebook, etc. I'm not saying Apple should start making crappy machines - but the MacBook does represent a certain attainability to those used to $300 computers.

I don't think they'll discontinue it so much as differentiate further it from the crowd. Maybe that means lowering the price, or something else. But I doubt they'll discontinue it. It was their best-selling model when it first came out in 2006.
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post #76 of 153
6/29/11 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary54 View Post

They aren't going to update the white MacBook. Its history, Done. Over. That handwriting has been on the wall quite a while. The recent sales success of the Air only put the last nail in the coffin.

You might be right but I heard that same things about the Mac mini over and over again and that got retooled into an over-engineered aluminium casing.
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post #77 of 153
6/29/11 at 5:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Next time you're in a college town visit a few cafes near the campus and count the macbooks. It's been a while since I was in the states but the last time I did this they were still far and away the most popular entry level option for students.

I have to disagree as I have had a very different experience. I work at a University and interact with a lot of student. They come to our office for a broad range of registration and exam related issues, and I can count on one hand the number of white MacBooks I have seen in the last year. However, I see plenty of MacBook pros on a daily basis. I will grant you that some may have the older MacBooks that were aluminum, but the white MacBooks are very rare.
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post #78 of 153
6/29/11 at 5:46pm
For one thing the Mac book has been selling well. The new AIRs have cut into that some but there are a lot of markets where the AIRs would be a no go. For example education where the MacBook still does well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I don't think so. Anecdotally speaking the first and closest table to the doors at my local Apple Store is all white MacBooks. I don't recall Apple ever putting EOL products at the front of the store and at such a quantity for the same configuration if it's going to be deprecated.

I think an update, and possibly a price point drop, is more likely based on what I've seen.

An update is certainly in order and frankly Apple has more options than ever before to implement an upgrade with. A price drop is a given and frankly the new high integration chips should help out a lot there. It goes without saying that Apple is having huge success with its laptop range, a much lower priced MacBook would allow them to fill in another hole in the lineup. I can see them hitting the $600 to $700 dollar range with the right configuration.

On top of all of that believe it or not some people simply don't like metal laptops. Plastic leaves them with a better feel.

AMD and their Fusion product would allow Apple to focus on GPU performance which would be important to many MacBook owners.

I'm actually running out of time here (public WiFi) but there are many customers that actually prefer the MacBook Like all old Apple products the value equation is screwed up at the moment but that can be addressed in a new platform to replace the current MacBook. Just because Mac Book gets disrespect in the forums here doesn't mean it sells poorly or is a bad fit for many users.
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post #79 of 153
6/29/11 at 7:49pm
Time to can it! The vanilla macbook has little place left in the world.
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post #80 of 153
6/29/11 at 8:27pm
With a $899 refurbished Macbook Pro available there is literally no reason to buy a white Macbook.
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