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Review roundup: HP TouchPad billed as 'mediocre tablet' - Page 3

post #81 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

You had to go back three years to find one?

Maybe there's a second one from 2005....

Apple's track record of turning out amazing products is just that good. Is it really Moss' fault Apple is awesome?

Don't worry, there are plenty of Google biased & MS biased reviewers out there that have been giving the iPad horrible reviews for a while now, the Universe balances itself.
post #82 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

I'm sad to hear that the hardware is so lacking. HP has exactly one chance to get this launched, and going in with problems like this seems like death.

Which is too bad, because from the little I used it, webOS is a much better OS than iOS. And I say that as someone with an all-Mac house.

The "cards" idea is simply brilliant, and I found it way easier to move around the system than on the iPhone or iPad. And the federated address book is precisely what I've been trying to get my iPhone to do since day one.

I agree webOS is a lot more functional and beautiful in ways than iOS. I especially like their tablet interpretation. The iPad needs some of those functions IMHO, but I guess it doesn't matter if consumers are still buying iPads in droves and shunning competitors like HP/Palm/webOS
post #83 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

I agree webOS is a lot more functional and beautiful in ways than iOS. I especially like their tablet interpretation. The iPad needs some of those functions IMHO, but I guess it doesn't matter if consumers are still buying iPads in droves and shunning competitors like HP/Palm/webOS

webOS has a really stupid name. It makes it sound like my experience will be stuck in a browser the whole time. It makes me think of the horrible way that MS integrated IE with windows explorer.

I've never used the OS, and I'm not commenting on how it actually behaves, I'm just saying that it's remarkably bad branding - much like Windows Phone 7 is actually.
post #84 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

They say at the end that the only reason to buy it is if you hate apple, they say it with a euphemism, but they say it nevertheless. That's not really a good review.

just like those Android tablets, its hard to recommend over an iPad at the same price. But the competition does creep ever closer, and the TouchPad stands as a solid iPad competitor for those who, err, "think different."

Eh, they still also call it the best non-iPad tablet. Some may say that is faint praise given how bad most of them have been so far, but I've certainly seen worse reviews. Like I said, I'm still waiting for the next iPad iteration before I buy one for myself, so I wasn't gonna be rushing out to buy HPs offering myself regardless.
post #85 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

webOS has a really stupid name. It makes it sound like my experience will be stuck in a browser the whole time. It makes me think of the horrible way that MS integrated IE with windows explorer.

I've never used the OS, and I'm not commenting on how it actually behaves, I'm just saying that it's remarkably bad branding - much like Windows Phone 7 is actually.

They definitely didn't have a consumer marketer come up with the name for them

Even so the OS is good and it feels more OS X like to me than iOS does.
post #86 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2992 View Post

just give them some time to polish the thing...

That's what they said about the Palm Pre

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #87 of 112
Ars Technica was bending over backwards to try to get some good comments in for the TouchPad, but they definitely hated the price. The same as the iPad, and they were likely to choose the iPad in that case. It was a competition for 2nd place, basically, because no one can come up with a tablet currently that matches the iPad.

They're a year late and they matched the original iPad's weight. But didn't have the apps of the original iPad and definitely not the battery life. Nor the cachet of owning an Apple product. Oh, and they seem to have copied the look of the iPhone 3GS, except that look is stretched to make it slippery and hard to hold. WebOS is intruging but not enough to save the day... you need more functionality than what this thing has got. Yeah, HP TouchPad is doomed to failure in its current incarnation.
post #88 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

Ars Technica was bending over backwards to try to get some good comments in for the TouchPad, but they definitely hated the price. The same as the iPad, and they were likely to choose the iPad in that case. It was a competition for 2nd place, basically, because no one can come up with a tablet currently that matches the iPad.

Spec-wise, the ASUS Transformer matches up with the iPad2 pretty well, at a price at least 25% less than the cheapest iPad2. Even throwing in ASUS optional keyboard/extended battery, it's still less than the most basic iPad2. The competition is slowly getting there.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/Asus-E..._Laptop_review
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post #89 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post

A few thought:

HP is getting compared to the iPad and found wanting, in part because they publicly said that they were going to be better than #1. They were going to be #1+. Add that to the stupid things they have said about themselves in comparison to Apple over the last few months, and you get the harsh criticism of the TP. HP sowed the wind, and is now, reaping the whirlwind. No one learns.

If HP had come out with the Xoom, or Gtab firmly in their sights, they might have been reviewed more favorably. But no, they, along with everyone else, seems to have an  fetish. When the reviews finally come out, WebOS fans say it is unfair to compare the TP to the iP2.

Lest we forget, the original iPad launched with 5,000 apps written specifically for the device. It is very fair to note the lack of apps, and thus, developer interest in the product at launch.

Finally, why is the iPad succeeding where everyone else is failing? One, there is no tablet market, and never has been. People are not buying tablets; they are buying iPads. Competitors cannot make iPads; they can only make brand X tablets. When SJ introduced the iPad, he spent a long time laying out the justification for the iPad's existence. He said that if it could not provide a superior experience in those areas, it has no reason to exist. Every tablet since has no justification to exist other than the fact that the iPad exists, and everyone else just wants a piece of it.

Excellent analysis. Kudos.
post #90 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

You had to go back three years to find one?

Maybe there's a second one from 2005....

Perhaps it's really because Apple's products are generally more praiseworthy than those of the competition?
post #91 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

The galaxy tab (the 7 inch) actually sold the best of the non-iPads.

you don't know that. no one does. Samsung has refused to release actual sales figures. they must be too embarrasing.

all we know is they manufactured and shipped 2.1 million. and said sales were "smooth."

i bet you they actually sold less than 500,000 - a huge flop.
post #92 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Somebody has to explain to me the fascination with a rear-facing camera on a tablet. Is anybody really going to carry around this dinner plate to snap photos?

no, but it comes in handy if it is the only camera you got to use when you need to. or you just want to take a quick snap of something to email without bothering with a real camera and then transferring files. i've done both several times now (my wife has the iPhone).
post #93 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

you don't know that. no one does. Samsung has refused to release actual sales figures. they must be too embarrasing.

all we know is they manufactured and shipped 2.1 million. and said sales were "smooth."

i bet you they actually sold less than 500,000 - a huge flop.

I'll bet they sold less than 250,000. They dumped it very quickly.
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post #94 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post

Finally, why is the iPad succeeding where everyone else is failing? One, there is no tablet market, and never has been. People are not buying tablets; they are buying iPads. Competitors cannot make iPads; they can only make brand X tablets. When SJ introduced the iPad, he spent a long time laying out the justification for the iPad's existence. He said that if it could not provide a superior experience in those areas, it has no reason to exist. Every tablet since has no justification to exist other than the fact that the iPad exists, and everyone else just wants a piece of it.

iPad has broken through and succeeded because it is not a stand alone product. it is part of the huge Apple ecosystem of integrated hardware, software, accessories, and soon cloud, both iOS and OS X. and it all Just Works.

whereas all the rest have little or no real ecosytem. they are just stand alone gadgets. even Android tabs, until Google at least merges its tablet and smartphone OS's as promised. but even then, Google's ecosystem is all about communication and information. but tablets are used instead more for doing stuff and consuming stuff.

what's a perfect example of the difference? AirPlay.
post #95 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

Heh - esperanto is great example of the failure of a product due to negative network effects - hardly anybody learns esperanto because hardly anybody speaks esperanto. I guess the same applies to this touchpad - so that was clearly a highly meta posting

Yeah that was one he'll of a post! Kudos to the op!
post #96 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Somebody has to explain to me the fascination with a rear-facing camera on a tablet. Is anybody really going to carry around this dinner plate to snap photos?

I can't answer that but I have read around the webs that very few uploads to places like flickr have been of photos taken with the iPad 2, which everyone and their brothers insisted must have cameras.

I have an iPad 2 and except for a few experimental shots the first couple of days, I haven't used either camera at all. I can see where the front-facing camera would be great for Skype or Facetime but that seems to be about it.
post #97 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecphorizer View Post

I can't answer that but I have read around the webs that very few uploads to places like flickr have been of photos taken with the iPad 2, which everyone and their brothers insisted must have cameras.

I have an iPad 2 and except for a few experimental shots the first couple of days, I haven't used either camera at all. I can see where the front-facing camera would be great for Skype or Facetime but that seems to be about it.

The only time I can see it being needed is if some guy just mugged you and is running off with your iPhone, so you want to take his photo as he flees, and he didn't manage to get your iPad.
post #98 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

They definitely didn't have a consumer marketer come up with the name for them

Even so the OS is good and it feels more OS X like to me than iOS does.

Actually I was thinking something similar based on the image with the Mac-like menu bar at the top of the article: WebOS resembles OS X more than it resembles iOS. iOS is a good OS for the tablet paradigm, MacOS X not so much. I really don't want windows cluttering up my 10" real estate.
post #99 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

The only time I can see it being needed is if some guy just mugged you and is running off with your iPhone, so you want to take his photo as he flees, and he didn't manage to get your iPad.

+1 ! That lucky burglar, all he got was an iPhone. All I got was the back of his butt as he fled down the street.
post #100 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecphorizer View Post

Actually I was thinking something similar based on the image with the Mac-like menu bar at the top of the article: WebOS resembles OS X more than it resembles iOS. iOS is a good OS for the tablet paradigm, MacOS X not so much. I really don't want windows cluttering up my 10" real estate.

I haven't tried the TouchPad yet, but I think the OS X like feel might be better for a tablet interface than the iOS. iOS is really nice for a phone, but I like the more desktop-like feel of webOS for something of that size. The Palm Pre's interface was really nice too, but was a little too complex for a phone.
post #101 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

you don't know that. no one does. Samsung has refused to release actual sales figures. they must be too embarrasing.

all we know is they manufactured and shipped 2.1 million. and said sales were "smooth."

i bet you they actually sold less than 500,000 - a huge flop.

If you read my posting you'll see I'm going off Google's android app market figures and what we know of the total numbers of Android activations. We know that there are 3 million android devices with 'large' screens. We know that there are about 700k with x-large screens and coincidentally about the same number running honeycomb. T

These are all activated devices talking to the App market, nothing just sitting in channel here.


So exactly what models do you think sold the other 2.5 million 'large' devices if the G-tab only sold 500k?
post #102 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

If you read my posting you'll see I'm going off Google's android app market figures and what we know of the total numbers of Android activations. We know that there are 3 million android devices with 'large' screens. We know that there are about 700k with x-large screens and coincidentally about the same number running honeycomb.

These are all activated devices talking to the App market, nothing just sitting in channel here.

So exactly what models do you think sold the other 2.5 million 'large' devices if the G-tab only sold 500k?

Excellent explanation. Well done
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post #103 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

If you read my posting you'll see I'm going off Google's android app market figures and what we know of the total numbers of Android activations. We know that there are 3 million android devices with 'large' screens. We know that there are about 700k with x-large screens and coincidentally about the same number running honeycomb. T

These are all activated devices talking to the App market, nothing just sitting in channel here.


So exactly what models do you think sold the other 2.5 million 'large' devices if the G-tab only sold 500k?

Could it be that the numbers you extrapolated from the chart are wrong?
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post #104 of 112
Yes it is, because it looks like a clone of OSX. Even the menu bar looks just like OSX. Jon Rubenstein needs to Think Different.
post #105 of 112
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Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Could it be that the numbers you extrapolated from the chart are wrong?

The numbers are right, - it's pretty easy to multiply a percentage by a total - but it's entirely possible there is some other significant large screen medium density device that is taking up that 3million device slot. Or possibly for some reason there's a significantly greater use of the app market by owners of tablets than regular smartphones - which seems unlikely given how bad the app market is for tablets.
post #106 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

I'm not going off Samsung's dodgy shipment numbers, I'm going off the Android app market's data.

http://developer.android.com/resourc...d/screens.html

3% of devices have large screens, meaning 7inch, thats around 3.5mil - the largest part would seem likely to be the galaxy tab, at least I can't think of another 7inch that actually made it into the wild in any numbers yet.



Some strange folk seem to actually want a 7inch - lord knows why, also since it runs Froyo it actually has some apps.

It isn't strange at all a sub 7" device serves significantly different needs. If Apple came out with an iPod/iPad with dimensions between 5&7" they would sell like hotcakes. No devices this size can't do what the iPad does, they don't have to. Rather they would be a highly portable Touch device with a screen bigger than iPod Touches but compact.
Quote:
The galaxy 10.1 is almost certainly a better device, but it's far harder to justify in the face of an iPad-2.

My problem with Android is that it is a product of the rip off culture. To effectively put an end to this culture I'd like to see it die off. This is why I'm hot about webOS and HPs new tablet, if nothing else it is unique.

By the way all the fools out there complaining about the unfinished nature of webOS ought to talk to an early iPhone owner. Back then iOS was a buggy mess.
post #107 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

The numbers are right, - it's pretty easy to multiply a percentage by a total - but it's entirely possible there is some other significant large screen medium density device that is taking up that 3million device slot. Or possibly for some reason there's a significantly greater use of the app market by owners of tablets than regular smartphones - which seems unlikely given how bad the app market is for tablets.

without knowing the actual total of unduplicated devices that accessed the Android market that single week, you can't assume it is 2.8% of all Android devices, grand total, ever sold/activated. some fraction are no longer in use. another fraction did not happen to access the market that week. but even more, tablets most likely access the market at a significantly higher rate than smartphones (all the Galaxy tab and other 7" tabs can use are smartphone Android 2.x apps anyway! not Honeycomb apps). that's the problem with straight line extrapolations - it ain't that simple.

so let's chop 2.8% of 100 million in half on account of all of the above factors combined. then you're down to 1.4. million, including Acer, Archos, Dell, ViewSonic and any other OEM's 7" tablets in use. leaving Samsung less than a million at most. and how many of those Galaxy tabs were only sold after being dumped into the discount bins of Korea/Asia?

face it, the 7" Galaxy tab was a huge flop. like i said, if Samsung had good US/Europe sales figures, they would have announced them. their silence speaks loudly. deafeningly.
post #108 of 112
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Originally Posted by Mac.World View Post

Really? Not having apps available has shown to be the death of every tablet so far. I would think it to be stupid to NOT have apps, and lots of quality ones, at launch.

Maybe. But personally I'd love a great cheap tablet with no apps at all, just a great browsing experience.
post #109 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezetation View Post

The problem isn't necessarily webOS but that HP bought it. Since when did HP know how to optimize software, their software & drivers are horrible crap.

It wasn't great under Palm sometimes.

WebOS is great overall, but there are little hesitations at times, doesn't even matter much if I nearly double my Pre Plus' CPU to 1 GHz; sometimes the OS just doesn't seem like it's responding to input.

Example, sometimes in the phone app, it won't appear to be responding to the input of numbers, and it suddenly displays all the numbers you've pressed, basically like your typing too fast or something.

It's annoying, it can ruin the rest of the experience at times. This happened under WebOS 1.4.x, and now 2.1, and HP has owned Palm for a little over a year now. I was curious about the TP (still have yet to demo one), but it sounds like the current crop of WebOS phones ATM (OS glitches and lack of apps, although the later isn't a dealbreaker).

I actually think WebOS would be a better experience on a tablet, but not in its current state.
post #110 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

The numbers are right, - it's pretty easy to multiply a percentage by a total - but it's entirely possible there is some other significant large screen medium density device that is taking up that 3million device slot. Or possibly for some reason there's a significantly greater use of the app market by owners of tablets than regular smartphones - which seems unlikely given how bad the app market is for tablets.

The Blackberry Playbook also can access and download apps from the Android Market. That might be part of the number (albeit a small small part)
post #111 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Somebody has to explain to me the fascination with a rear-facing camera on a tablet. Is anybody really going to carry around this dinner plate to snap photos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac.World View Post

Lately i have been using the rear camera on my ipad to scan documents. There are uses other than taking personal photo's for a rear camera.

Personal photos are a good use as well, I brought my iPad on a trip with me, didn't want to drag along my Olympus SLR, used my iPad to take pix and videos of us driving over the Golden Gate bridge and through SF, down gorgeous Hwy. 1. The photos were okay, but the video was great and fun. (and my Olympus doesn't do video) It is convenient to have a camera (and one that is so much better than my LG cell phone camera, talk about crap) I waited for the iPad2 for the camera and it is useful for many things including having the front one for video chat rear for video and quick snaps. I love my iPad, on the road I could check my email, surf the web, look up restaurants, wineries, maps, read books, and take video all with a device that could slip into my purse. (Love my MacBookPro too, but the iPad is so great for travel)
post #112 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrosmash View Post

Here we are at version 3 of WebOS, on its fastest hardware yet, and it's still slow, buggy, and power hungry.

The UI is pretty, as usual, but it's still a mess under the surface.

WebOS was a hail mary attempt from Palm; after years of trying to develop the next generation Palm OS they whipped together "WebOS" from a Linux kernel and WebKit in only a matter of months, and it appears there are serious architectural problems as a result. I'll be surprised if there are any WebOS devices in the market in a few years. Its flaws are just too deep.

This debate is quite funny.

Remember the Mac, before OS X? Pretty on the surface, a lot of real usability gains, but the underlying OS was crude and primitive (no memory protection, no pre-emptive scheduling). And the Wintel world had a massive lead in number of software titles. At least back in the day the Mac had sufficiently large usability gains to be worth the other inconveniences, and it pushed the competition to get that part of their game better. iPad has significant usability glitches though nothing near as bad as early versions of Windows and UNIX. But it's fun seeing how the roles are reversed and the people who argued the issue one way are taking the opposite side now.

Philip Machanick creator of Opinionations and Green Grahamstown
Department of Computer Science, Rhodes University, South Africa

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Philip Machanick creator of Opinionations and Green Grahamstown
Department of Computer Science, Rhodes University, South Africa

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