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Apple seeds Mac OS X 10.7 Lion Golden Master to developers - Page 2

post #41 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

Which looks more advanced?

I think Apple may have dropped the ball on this one.

Nah, like someone else already noted, different strokes for different folks. Personally, I find the W8 interface interesting, but I think I would find it annoying to have to dis-engage (for lack of a better description) the tiles/main interface to actually get to the computing components of W8. Not sure how many clicks, swipes, etc, it will take, but for me personally, I can set widgets and things to provide that same info to me immediately if/when I want it and always have the computing environment available, and that's the way I would prefer to work. I mean they are, after all, "computers", right? If all I wanted was a device to present information via widgets, I'd buy a tablet or something of the sort.

Others have also mentioned the price aspect, and I agree - it will be interesting to see what MS charges for W8...
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post #42 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

I think Apple's strategy with Lion and full screen is refreshing. Open up an app....let it take the "full" focus of your attention and then move on to something else. I think it's more in line with how humans process and dispatch tasks.

I completely agree.

It gets annoying having 5 windows in your view at times.

I'm running a dual 24" monitor set up on my Mac Pro for web development. I currently have FireFox, Mail, Terminal, OmniGraffle, Console all on one monitor tiled on each other (it gets annoying having to hide them all the time). It distracts me too much. On the other monitor I either have Xcode or BBEdit, it takes the full monitor so nothing takes away my attention while I am coding.

I personally can't wait for full screen apps.

 

 

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post #43 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoogH View Post

If we are a developer and we install the GM, will we have to worry about Lion on release? Or do we already have the release version?

If I'm not mistaken, you'll have to pay $29 like the rest of us.
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post #44 of 150
This is great. I am looking forward to the new Mail, the full IP6 support, Mission Control, the new voices (Scottish lady!), full-disk encryption, app resume, the previews in Spotlight, and using XCode in full-screen. The new "About this Mac" window is also very nice.
post #45 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoogH View Post

If we are a developer and we install the GM, will we have to worry about Lion on release? Or do we already have the release version?

Good question. What is the exact meaning of GM seed? It's not just a candidate for GM, but the final thing, I think.
post #46 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Good question. What is the exact meaning of GM seed? It's not just a candidate for GM, but the final thing, I think.

It's not a seed, they're seeding it. Seeding something is just another way of saying making it available for downloading, generally via bit torrent - but not exclusively.
post #47 of 150
So far the GM seems great. Much better than the previous build. iCal definitely has a few bugs but it's probably releasable. Beyond that, good.

I could really use a new build of iTunes 10.5 today though, beta2 is sooo god awful buggy.
post #48 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

It's not a seed, they're seeding it. Seeding something is just another way of saying making it available for downloading, generally via bit torrent - but not exclusively.

Then why didn't they call all the developer previews seeds too?
post #49 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

My IQ is 143 and I think it's awesome

What it's doing is giving you an customized overview of the various things in your life. It's sweet that I can see my next appointment without launching the calendar, new emails without launching mail, weather without launching weather, etc.

It's all very efficient... "glance and go"

Right, but isn't that what phones are for? Why do I need "glance and go" on my laptop or desktop computer? Do I whip out my laptop every time I want to check the weather or see if I have a new tweet?

I'm really not quite understanding what MS is doing here. Apple makes a clear distinction between iOS and OS X because they run on very different hardware that engenders different UI solutions. MS allows itself to fall way behind on touch interfaces, then abruptly goes all in by slapping a "touch friendly" UI on an OS that's likely to be mostly run on devices that strongly mitigate against that solution.

And then they further muddy the waters by declaring that their phones will continue to run a different but similar OS while reserving Win 8 for tablets.

Apple: purpose built mobile iOS on mobile devices, OS X on laptops and desktops. MS: WM7 on phones, Win8 with a touch skin on tablets, Win8 with a touch skin that probably will get quickly dismissed to get at Win7 on laptops and desktops.

I don't think that's "efficient" at all, and "glance and go" makes no sense whatsoever for a desktop UI.
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post #50 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

Which looks more advanced?



or this?



I think Apple may have dropped the ball on this one.

This has to be a joke post! If you think a bunch of tiles looks advanced, I think you have your head stuck up your Ballmer.
post #51 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

Which looks more advanced?



or this?



I think Apple may have dropped the ball on this one.

You're kidding right? The tile design is little more than what was popular in desktop publishing 20 years ago. And while I applaud Microsoft's attempt to be un-Apple... You're also comparing Microsoft's touch based UI with Apple's desktop task manager layer.
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post #52 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

W8 has the same gestures. It also has "live tiles" which are more useful than icons.

Most importantly, it finally moved past the desktop metaphor that is over 25 years old and Apple still uses.

Uh, Windows 8 stills uses the same desktop metaphor... Not sure what you think Windows 8 is? The tile interface you've shown is little more than a touch based layer on top of the normal UI.

and actually iOS has done more for moving the computer industry away from the desktop metaphor than Microsoft will ever attempt to.
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post #53 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

MS allows itself to fall way behind on touch interfaces, then abruptly goes all in by slapping a "touch friendly" UI on an OS that's likely to be mostly run on devices that strongly mitigate against that solution.

You're right about that. MS will probably be getting a lot of resistance from their own customers, who happen to be windows users. Nobody comes even close to having as good a touch surface interaction as Apple has in their laptops, the magic trackpad, the iphone, the ipod touch and the ipad. Apple users know what great multitouch is like. Apple users have been used to the best multitouch surfaces and trackpads for years. One area in which all other tablets pale in comparison to the iPad, is the silky, smooth and very responsive feel of the UI. Using other tablets is like using something made in a previous century.

Windows users don't have a clue about multitouch, unless they happen to own an iphone or maybe an ipad on the side. And now, MS is going to be releasing an OS built around touch and shoving it down the throats of all those users who are still sitting there with their ancient mice.
post #54 of 150
I would hope they will also have Lion available on physical media shortly after release on the App store. Not sure how you can access and upgrade from the App store if you intend to format and do a clean install. I personally would never upgrade without reformatting the drive.
post #55 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKRick View Post

I would hope they will also have Lion available on physical media shortly after release on the App store. Not sure how you can access and upgrade from the App store if you intend to format and do a clean install. I personally would never upgrade without reformatting the drive.

I don't think that they will. Apple said it will be download only I believe, and I don't have any problems with that.

I'm sure that there will be various solutions for people who own multiple machines or people who want it on physical media. These people can simply burn their own DVD or just throw it on a cheap thumb drive. That's two solutions right there that should work fine. We'll know for sure after Lion is released.
post #56 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKRick View Post

I would hope they will also have Lion available on physical media shortly after release on the App store.

Nope.

Quote:
Not sure how you can access and upgrade from the App store if you intend to format and do a clean install. I personally would never upgrade without reformatting the drive.

By DOING a clean install. The file is smart. It knows not to delete itself.

And if you want to burn it to a disc, do it yourself. But the file can do a clean install after being downloaded.

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post #57 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKRick View Post

I would hope they will also have Lion available on physical media shortly after release on the App store. Not sure how you can access and upgrade from the App store if you intend to format and do a clean install. I personally would never upgrade without reformatting the drive.

The passage from SL to Lion is very sweet, no problem to upgrade at all.
Inside the installer u download from the store there is a usual system .dmg u can use to create DVD/pen drive and so on.
post #58 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Nope.



By DOING a clean install. The file is smart. It knows not to delete itself.

And if you want to burn it to a disc, do it yourself. But the file can do a clean install after being downloaded.

So let's say your hard drive dies and you install a new one or you just want to upgrade to an SSD, I guess you would have to install SL first to access the download then do your clean install... what a hassle.
post #59 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKRick View Post

So let's say your hard drive dies and you install a new one or you just want to upgrade to an SSD, I guess you would have to install SL first to access the download then do your clean install... what a hassle.

Or... you'll have that nice copy of Lion that you BURNED TO A DISC.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #60 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

Which looks more advanced?



I think Apple may have dropped the ball on this one.

I'm not sure that looking advanced is a good thing...

The Windows screen looks nicer. (but it's like a sweaty body -it looks good on a picture but in real life it's something else.)

Now, if you actually use your computer like most people do (and not just run weather apps/widgets but have lots of websites and running apps and several documents open ) I think Apple's approach is more useful. It's quicker to get an overview of what you're doing and it's easier to switch between tasks. (Although I still prefer the old style Exposé. There's definitely room for improvement on Mission Control.)

I give Microsoft credit for trying something else. But is it useful? Don't think so. The desktop metaphor may be old, but it works.
post #61 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post




I think Apple may have dropped the ball on this one.

Truthfully, I think this looks dreadful. It looks like an advertisement for a real estate broker. Huge amounts of badly done Helvetica/Arial and simple coloured rectangles that scream a soulless life. Keep this, and I hope that it never comes to OS X.
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post #62 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

You're right about that. MS will probably be getting a lot of resistance from their own customers, who happen to be windows users. Nobody comes even close to having as good a touch surface interaction as Apple has in their laptops, the magic trackpad, the iphone, the ipod touch and the ipad. Apple users know what great multitouch is like. Apple users have been used to the best multitouch surfaces and trackpads for years. One area in which all other tablets pale in comparison to the iPad, is the silky, smooth and very responsive feel of the UI. Using other tablets is like using something made in a previous century.

Windows users don't have a clue about multitouch, unless they happen to own an iphone or maybe an ipad on the side. And now, MS is going to be releasing an OS built around touch and shoving it down the throats of all those users who are still sitting there with their ancient mice.

There's a lot of truth in this.

I think the story after Windows 8 comes out is going to be how many people use it and how many people clicked the switch to go back to "regular" Windows underneath immediately? Some PCs will be sold without multi-touch so we know that the multi-touch part will be easily turned off.
post #63 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

Which looks more advanced?



or this?



I think Apple may have dropped the ball on this one.

I've had this since 10.1 It's called widgets, and below those I actually have a full featured OS.
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post #64 of 150
I hope Apple do either announce a release on a disc or provide some kind of Apple Store upgrade facility. My access to the internet is both slow and extremely bandwidth limited (no, I can't move house to get better access, so don't suggest it), so I simply can't download something as big as Lion.
post #65 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maffrew View Post

I hope Apple do either announce a release on a disc or provide some kind of Apple Store upgrade facility. My access to the internet is both slow and extremely bandwidth limited (no, I can't move house to get better access, so don't suggest it), so I simply can't download something as big as Lion.

1) If you can get to an Apple Store you can just upgrade via their network.

2) If you are savvy enough to burn a DVD of an installation file you are savvy enough to follow the very, very simple instructions that have been out for 6 months on creating a bootable version of Mac OS X Lion, either burning to a SL-DVD, flash drive, or some other partition on an HDD/SSD.
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post #66 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

Which looks more advanced?

...

I think Apple may have dropped the ball on this one.

Wow, those screens have nothing to do with each other. One is a strange 'home page' that looks totally out of place on a PC screen, the other is giving an overview of all apps that you currently have running.

Or did you think the Microsoft 'boxes' UI thing is somehow representing Word documents that you currently are working on? Because based on the demo MS released, doing that dropped you out of that UI entirely and back to Windows, even on a tablet. And that's pretty nasty.

However, since you asked - I'd say the Mac screen looks more advanced, though I don't like how they did the desktop background on it.
post #67 of 150
So, does anyone have any feedback on how someone might navigate Lion if they have a traditional mouse or a trackball? I absolutely love the trackpad on Mac laptops, however for the last 12-13 years I have been using one of these for my desktop computing.

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-p...s/devices/7365

I was really excited when the Magic Trackpad came out and bought one immediately thinking I would replace my Trackball, but I returned it about a week later. I realized that I seldom use my tracking device with it on the actual desk. The Trackball fits my hand so perfectly I can palm the thing and use it like a remote control. I know I'll probably end up getting a Track pad again at some point in time, but I'm just curious to know how much useability Lion will have for those not using a Trackpad. I mean will the added features of Lion, like Mission Control, even be accessible through other means or will multi-touch gestures be the only means of navigating much of these things?
post #68 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Nelson View Post

So, does anyone have any feedback on how someone might navigate Lion if they have a traditional mouse or a trackball? I absolutely love the trackpad on Mac laptops, however for the last 12-13 years I have been using one of these for my desktop computing.

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-p...s/devices/7365

I was really excited when the Magic Trackpad came out and bought one immediately thinking I would replace my Trackball, but I returned it about a week later. I realized that I seldom use my tracking device with it on the actual desk. The Trackball fits my hand so perfectly I can palm the thing and use it like a remote control. I know I'll probably end up getting a Track pad again at some point in time, but I'm just curious to know how much useability Lion will have for those not using a Trackpad. I mean will the added features of Lion, like Mission Control, even be accessible through other means or will multi-touch gestures be the only means of navigating much of these things?

Hot corners and assignable key combinations.
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post #69 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Nelson View Post

So, does anyone have any feedback on how someone might navigate Lion if they have a traditional mouse or a trackball? I absolutely love the trackpad on Mac laptops, however for the last 12-13 years I have been using one of these for my desktop computing.

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-p...s/devices/7365

I'm sorry to have to tell you this but a biopsy revealed that your mouse was suffering from a malignant trackpad growth that was extremely advanced. We operated for hours and used all our capabilities, but we were unable to save it

Do you happen to know how your mouse felt about component donation?
post #70 of 150
Bring on virtualization. Hopefully, someone will figure out how to run Snow Leopard within Lion.
post #71 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Right, but isn't that what phones are for? Why do I need "glance and go" on my laptop or desktop computer? Do I whip out my laptop every time I want to check the weather or see if I have a new tweet?

I'm really not quite understanding what MS is doing here. Apple makes a clear distinction between iOS and OS X because they run on very different hardware that engenders different UI solutions. MS allows itself to fall way behind on touch interfaces, then abruptly goes all in by slapping a "touch friendly" UI on an OS that's likely to be mostly run on devices that strongly mitigate against that solution.

And then they further muddy the waters by declaring that their phones will continue to run a different but similar OS while reserving Win 8 for tablets.

Apple: purpose built mobile iOS on mobile devices, OS X on laptops and desktops. MS: WM7 on phones, Win8 with a touch skin on tablets, Win8 with a touch skin that probably will get quickly dismissed to get at Win7 on laptops and desktops.

I don't think that's "efficient" at all, and "glance and go" makes no sense whatsoever for a desktop UI.

I think you just nailed it.
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post #72 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

I'm sorry to have to tell you this but a biopsy revealed that your mouse was suffering from a malignant trackpad growth that was extremely advanced. We operated for hours and used all our capabilities, but we were unable to save it

Do you happen to know how your mouse felt about component donation?

Funny! No, I won't be giving up my trackball. Actually, when the magic mouse first came out I was seriously considering gutting the button/scroll wheel/palm rest side of the trackball and transplanting a magic mouse into that space, giving me everything I love about the thumb operated trackball, and adding to it a touch sensitive surface. The dimensions of the magic mouse/trackball are almost perfect for this operation. Or maybe logitech will just release their trackball where the entire right side is a multi-touch surface. Hey I can dream right?
post #73 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

My IQ is 143 and I think it's awesome

What it's doing is giving you an customized overview of the various things in your life. It's sweet that I can see my next appointment without launching the calendar, new emails without launching mail, weather without launching weather, etc.

It's all very efficient... "glance and go"

You're right on spot. Only I don't know why Apple still uses the term "The Finder". Maybe "Digital Pallette" would be make more sense.

But that harks back to the early days of Finder, Chooser, Desktop, etc. We actually had a guy in our office who could never figure out how to get his (very early) Mac (B&W 1MB) to find the Network Printer. We must have shown him 300x how to do it.

We finally taped a hand-written note to his MAC which said "DON'T BE A LOOSER, USE YOUR CHOOSER"

He never had to ask us again.
post #74 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post

I wonder what the release date will be. And I'm still curious about getting an OS without a DVD. I'm really looking forward to Lion. I switched from a mouse to a Magic Trackpad in anticipation of this release (and because my MX Revolution was finally dying).

As has been pointed out before, once you've downloaded the installer, you can burn it to a DVD and file it away with your other backup DVDs. You can also use this new DVD to install Lion on other Macs in your home or business.

I too bought a Magic Trackpad in anticipation of Lion. I'm curious about how others are making the transition from Mouse to Trackpad.

I find that after a few days' of use, I'm using the trackpad about 60% of the time and the mouse 40%. Why? I still haven't mastered the double-click on the TP, I still seem to delete multiple files in my RSS reader because the cursor is hovering over the "delete" button and my fingers are hovering above the TP and occasionally one get lazy and accidentally taps the TP surface, initiating a click on the delete button. I've also been totally befuddled on getting the right-click to work even though I've set what I think is the right gesture in the Prefs.

Any others having similar or other types of transition troubles?
post #75 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Haha. Windows 8 looks like it's made for really stupid and simple people. It just looks like a bunch of big widgets shaped like tiles on your desktop, providing real useful info such as the weather.

Until you mentioned this I couldn't put my finger on where I'd seen that "tiled" display before.

I remember back in the System 8 and OS 9 cays there was something called IIRC the Simple Finder was for youngsters and had no text but these huge icons all lined up like W8 does.
post #76 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

My IQ is 143 and I think it's awesome

So are you a member of the Four Sigma Society? (If you have to google it, you don't belong!)
post #77 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoogH View Post

If we are a developer and we install the GM, will we have to worry about Lion on release? Or do we already have the release version?

If Lion follows what Snow Leo did, the GM should be good to go. I got the Snow Leo GM through their program and it was what was running my mac for quite a while. When an update came out (10.6.1) Software Update alerted me and updated the GM software that was installed.

Should be a piece of cake.
post #78 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKRick View Post

I would hope they will also have Lion available on physical media shortly after release on the App store. Not sure how you can access and upgrade from the App store if you intend to format and do a clean install. I personally would never upgrade without reformatting the drive.

This begs the question of where you data are stored if you want to import them via Migration Assistant?

The solution, of course, would be to use CCC or SuperDuper to clone your current boot drive onto a backup, including your recently-downloaded Lion installer. Then boot from your new backup, launch the Lion installer, and specify which disk you wish to install it on. At some point you'll be able to access the Disk Utility app from within the installed (like on all other installers) at which time you can erase the target disk. Actually this is a good idea for another reason: Lion will create a small partition on the erased drive and install a "recovery" routine there.

Your idea of doing a clean install is a good one, one which many of us old hands perform.
post #79 of 150
From Apple's up-to-date site (http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate) comes this text:

The OS X Lion Up-to-Date upgrade will be available at no additional charge via the Mac App Store to all customers who purchased a qualifying new Mac system from Apple or an Apple Authorized Reseller on or after June 6, 2011. Users must request their Up-to-Date upgrade within 30 days of purchase of their Mac computer. Customers who purchase a qualifying Mac between June 6, 2011 and the date when Lion is available in the Mac App Store will have 30 days from Lions official release date to make a request.

When Lion becomes available in July, come back to this page for details on how to request your copy of Lion.

Is it just me or is this confusing? It first says it's for Mac purchases made starting June 6 and that you have 30 days from your purchase date to request your free copy of Lion. It also says you can't make the request until Lion becomes available. This would imply Lion will be available on July 6.

Then it says purchases made between June 6 and Lion's release date have 30 days from Lion's release date to request a free copy. So if I purchased a Mac on June 6 I have until July 6 but if I purchased a Mac on June 7 I've got until 30 days after Lion's release to request a copy?

WTF? It's late so it's probably just me.
post #80 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

Which looks more advanced?

or this?

I think Apple may have dropped the ball on this one.

Your troll-fu is strong. You managed to derail a thread about the GM of Lion into a Lion UI vs Win 8 UI match.

- Jasen.
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