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Orthodox Jews - Page 3

post #81 of 114
7/8/11 at 10:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

As for Europe, I'm sure people were still enjoying meals and a nice round of drinks on the Titanic after it hit the iceberg. That doesn't deny it sank though nor that it would. Demographic changes, currency issues, etc show Europe is failing.



Your experience continues to have a racist tinge to it whereby you hold up your European examples and the best and note the places in the world Europe exploited and damaged as the examples of what is wrong. Let's have Nigeria cart off goods from Germany for 150 years and afterwards when Germany can't seem to get it's shit together, we can hold it up as an example what is bad.

I'm referring to the effectiveness and reach of government.

Nigerian society is not damaged because Nigerians are black.

That's a connection made in your own mind Nick, and I can only speculate what that says about you.

EDIT: I was a bit mean.
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post #82 of 114
7/8/11 at 10:51am
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
But, your name here is Mumbo Jumbo...why would Trumpetman do such a thing?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #83 of 114
7/8/11 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

But, your name here is Mumbo Jumbo...why would Trumpetman do such a thing?

I don't know.

It's a bit... stalkery. A bit... psychotic, dare I say.

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post #84 of 114
7/8/11 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

If you can name one that isn't, I'll buy you a pizza.

I consider left to right on this to mean whether they adopted Keynesian stimulus to help with economic problems or austerity measures. By that measure most countries doing better for now are to the right of the United States.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Oh look. I'm disagreeing with trumptman. Suddenly he's defining me as "part of a mob" and defining my disagreement as symptomatic of mental illness. At the same time he's defending a thread that describes "liberals" as automatically arrogant, en entier, and whining about mob tactics.

Oh, go away trumptman. Come back when you argue like a grown up.

You speak from the perspective of coming from a consensus. Your consensus is a consensus of one though. My thread in no form attempts to give me a moral higher ground based off what I as one person declare a group has empowered me to speak. Your attempts to equate fail miserably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Pick any blue country that doesn't have a debt crisis and it's farther left economically than the US.



Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World

Pick any country that does and it is to the left of the United States as well. Please make a point.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #85 of 114
7/8/11 at 10:59am
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Find the ones that do have debt crises and you will find that the majority subscribed to American banking ideologies. This map was in response to Jazz. He requested information. I provided it. That was my point. Pay attention, Trumpet.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #86 of 114
7/8/11 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Pick any blue country that doesn't have a debt crisis and it's farther left economically than the US.

Can you name 3 blue countries that don't have a debt crisis?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #87 of 114
7/8/11 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


You speak from the perspective of coming from a consensus. Your consensus is a consensus of one though. My thread in no form attempts to give me a moral higher ground based off what I as one person declare a group has empowered me to speak. Your attempts to equate fail miserably.

.

Again, in English.
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post #88 of 114
7/8/11 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Can you name 3 blue countries that don't have a debt crisis?

Are you serious?

Norway, Germany, France, Switzerland.

Can I have a cookie?
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post #89 of 114
7/8/11 at 11:11am
Australia, New Zealand, South Africa.
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post #90 of 114
7/8/11 at 11:12am
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Note how Jazz moved the goalposts here as well. First, he was going to answer my question if I defined the terms better. I do so, and he just comes in with a different question.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #91 of 114
7/8/11 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Note how Jazz moved the goalposts here as well. First, he was going to answer my question if I defined the terms better. I do so, and he just comes in with a different question.

I'm asking for clarification and specifics. You showed me a map with colors on it.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #92 of 114
7/8/11 at 11:18am
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Do you need help reading a map and picking out the blue countries I specified? Give me a break. I know you believe in some fanciful garbage, but you're not fucking stupid. Obstinate, sure. Unwilling to answer questions, sure. But don't play the stupid card.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #93 of 114
7/8/11 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Are you serious?

Norway, Germany, France, Switzerland.

Can I have a cookie?

These countries drill for oil. They use nuclear power. They believe in austerity measures. Most have passed harsher immigration measures at a minimum and assimilation measures at a maximim. How does that make them left of the U.S. right now?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #94 of 114
7/8/11 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

I'm referring to the effectiveness and reach of government.

Nigerian society is not damaged because Nigerians are black.

That's a connection made in your own mind Nick, and I can only speculate what that says about you.

EDIT: I was a bit mean.

You are the one naming African countries as failures, largely while ignoring their colonial pasts which benefitted the countries you now declare to be the model. Try to fid examples where the model is not the oppressor and the negative example is not the oppressed. It's gist bad form.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #95 of 114
7/8/11 at 11:47am
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
You do realize the logical fallacy in comparing austerity measures in those countries to austerity measures here, right?

Take 20 steps to the left. Now take 2 steps to the right. Congratulations, you're Norway.

Take 5 steps to the right. Now demand to take 5 more to the right. Congratulations, you're the US.



BRUTAL ANALOGY FLAW!

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #96 of 114
7/8/11 at 11:57am
*BR's head explodes"

Sorry to put you on the spot like that and actually make you back up your claims with something other than profanity and personal attacks, BR.

You claimed that ALL "successful, first-world countries" ("successful" meaning those not facing a debt crisis) had economies "MUCH further to the left" than that of the United States.

All I have to do is hold up an example of one "successful, first-world country" that is not "MUCH further to the left" of the United States economically to blow your statement out of the water.

I'll provide two examples:

Australia

Canada

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #97 of 114
7/8/11 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

These countries drill for oil. They use nuclear power. They believe in austerity measures. Most have passed harsher immigration measures at a minimum and assimilation measures at a maximim. How does that make them left of the U.S. right now?

America drills more oil than all of them apart from Norway.

Norway has no nuclear power stations.

France and Germany imposed an enormous stimulus programme each. Norway and Switzerland didn't even need to.

Have a look at their health systems, tax bands, public works and then get back to me when you have a proper response that isn't based on selectively naming immigration policy as if it was the only thing that mattered in deciding a nation's historical orientation.

None of these countries have a political party in any way as extreme as the American Republican party.
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post #98 of 114
7/8/11 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

None of these countries have a political party in any way as extreme as the American Republican party.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

(extreme, extremist, extremism)

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #99 of 114
7/8/11 at 12:04pm
Oh. And Germany just announced, last month, it was closing ALL of its nuclear stations.

You don't like Europe but you know fuck all about it.
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post #100 of 114
7/8/11 at 1:08pm
  • e1618978
  • will burn in the Fiery Pit of Hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Australia

Canada

Both of those countries are significantly to the left of the US. Go look at the Liberal party of Australia (which is the more conservative of the two parties) - they are way to the left of the democrats.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #101 of 114
7/8/11 at 1:15pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

*BR's head explodes"

Sorry to put you on the spot like that and actually make you back up your claims with something other than profanity and personal attacks, BR.

You claimed that ALL "successful, first-world countries" ("successful" meaning those not facing a debt crisis) had economies "MUCH further to the left" than that of the United States.

All I have to do is hold up an example of one "successful, first-world country" that is not "MUCH further to the left" of the United States economically to blow your statement out of the water.

I'll provide two examples:

Australia

Canada


Are you kidding me? They both have universal healthcare. We couldn't even get a public option to vote on.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #102 of 114
7/8/11 at 1:31pm
They both consistently rank higher than the U.S. on various economic freedom indexes.

Also, Canada has a commodity based currency.

And Australia's currency, while no longer commodity based, is not considered a reserve currency.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #103 of 114
7/8/11 at 1:37pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
And yet they have UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #104 of 114
7/8/11 at 1:47pm
Stay on topic.

You claimed that ALL "successful, first-world countries" were "MUCH farther to the left" ECONOMICALLY than the United States.

I just provided 2 examples that clearly refute your statement.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #105 of 114
7/8/11 at 2:10pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
You don't consider universal healthcare economically left?

You are cherry picking and refusing to look at the whole picture. Universal healthcare and stronger social safety nets outweigh your gotcha cherries.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #106 of 114
7/8/11 at 2:17pm
I consider any government intervention in the free market to be "economically left".

You should have been more specific when I was asking questions instead of insulting me and refusing to do so. I had to go off of what information you gave me.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #107 of 114
7/8/11 at 2:49pm
  • e1618978
  • will burn in the Fiery Pit of Hell.
There are some ways that Canada and Australia are to the right of the US - Canada has school vouchers, and corporate tax in Australia is deductible against your personal income tax if you are a shareholder (no double taxation).

Australia has much more left wing gun laws, and much stronger employee protection laws (to the point of absurdity, you can go to jail if one of your idiot workers kills himself by doing something stupid). Mandatory vacation is very high in Australia, and there is socialized medicine in both Canada And AUS. Australia has much stronger environmental laws - there are times you can't cut a tree even if you planted it yourself.

Taxes are about the same in all three countries. Australia has a horrible tax called "stamp duty" which is basically sales tax on used things - which prevents a lot of private business owners from being able to buy or sell businesses, the stamp duty would kill them on the transaction.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #108 of 114
7/8/11 at 2:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

America drills more oil than all of them apart from Norway.

The point is that the U.S. uses more and thus exports wealth and imports oil. Please show me which of these countries are doing that with regard to energy production.

Quote:
Norway has no nuclear power stations.

Norway has no nuclear because they pump wealth out of the ground called oil. They are a net-exporter.

Quote:
France and Germany imposed an enormous stimulus programme each. Norway and Switzerland didn't even need to.

The stories and numbers say otherwise for Germany.

They also say that for France.

Please support your claims which are the opposite of reality.
Quote:
Have a look at their health systems, tax bands, public works and then get back to me when you have a proper response that isn't based on selectively naming immigration policy as if it was the only thing that mattered in deciding a nation's historical orientation.

None of these countries have a political party in any way as extreme as the American Republican party.

Get back to me when you have assertions that match reality.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #109 of 114
7/8/11 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Oh. And Germany just announced, last month, it was closing ALL of its nuclear stations.

You don't like Europe but you know fuck all about it.

They announced they would close them by 2022 which is 11 years from now. The move was a political one related to trying to limit the gains of the Greens. There is opposition of course and plenty of time to work it out. Try getting a few more facts on your side instead of a few more insults.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #110 of 114
7/8/11 at 9:44pm
Note to jazzguru, MJ, trumpy, sdw, frank, et al.

Debt spending is not a function of socialism. A country with less debt spending than The US is not automatically 'further to the right economically' than the US.

Let's get that straight.
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post #111 of 114
7/8/11 at 9:52pm
Note to this topic, you are over. The OP and where we are now are so far diverged that it is hard to even see a link. Not that the OP was any great shakes. Enjoy your stay... \

RIP
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #112 of 114
7/8/11 at 11:27pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Note to Noah, your analysis here is also offtopic.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #113 of 114
7/9/11 at 1:47am
It’s Logic 0-8 Trumptman in the final of the Fucking Bullshit World Cup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

They announced they would close them by 2022 which is 11 years from now. The move was a political one related to trying to limit the gains of the Greens. There is opposition of course and plenty of time to work it out. Try getting a few more facts on your side instead of a few more insults.

What the fuck?

You tried to claim that having nuclear power stations somehow meant that Germany wasn’t politically left of America. Or something (I don’t think you really care.)

I told you they were closing ALL of their nuclear power stations down.

Now suddenly it doesn’t count because the government's only doing it to win environmental votes.

Right on! Are you actually arguing with yourself now? Because if that’s supposed to be your coup de grace in this argument you’ve just won it for me, you total dumbass.
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post #114 of 114
7/9/11 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Note to Noah, your analysis here is also offtopic.

When in Rome...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
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