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Lawsuit accuses Missouri Apple Store of race, gender discrimination

post #1 of 123
Thread Starter 
A new lawsuit takes aim at Apple and one of its senior retail store managers, accusing them of refusing to promote an employee because she is a black woman.

The case stems from the Apple retail store located at the St. Louis Galleria in St. Louis, Mo. Plaintiff Barbara J. DuBose has accused Apple and the senior store manager of its St. Louis location, Robert Proffer, of race and gender discrimination and retaliation.

DuBose was a part-time employee at the retail store who expressed interest in working full-time. She claims that she was told by her manager that she needed to work on things like her composure, this despite allegedly receiving high marks in a review.

In her complaint, she alleges that she applied for full-time positions was denied, even as other new hires were brought into the St. Louis store. It is claimed that in late 2010, the store had more than 100 workers and only eight of them black, and two of those eight full-time workers.

"I've been part-time at Apple for three years and there has never been a minority to be promoted to any higher paying position," DuBose wrote in the complaint, written in the first person.

DuBose alleges that in December of 2010 in a meeting with her manager she was told that she did not receive promotions because she created a "hostile work environment," and that several workers at the store were "upset" with her. Subsequent hires were either mostly or all white males, she claims.

DuBose filed a complaint with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission which included an e-mail with the subject "Thug-Life" that contained a photo of her manager wearing a "STL cap" She said she was "highly offended" by this picture.

She has argued that her race was a "contributing factor" in the case. As further evidence she claims the few black full-time workers at the store are all "lighter skinned African-Americans."

"I've never seen a darker skinned African American get promoted in our store nor have I ever seen an African-American or minority hold a managerial position for that matter," she wrote. "I've worked at the store for the past three and a half years and I have never seen a minority promoted or hold a managerial position since my time at the store."

DuBose received a right-to-sue letter from the Missouri Commission on Human Rights earlier this year. She filed a formal complaint against Apple and Proffer in May.



Apple responded to the claims in its own filing last week in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Missouri. In that filing, it is admitted that DuBose received a positive employee review with a score of four out of five, but also that the manager warned DuBose that she needed to work on keeping her composure with difficult customers.

"Defendants admit that there are approximately 104 employees at the Apple Galleria store and approximately 8 of these individuals classify themselves as African American," Apple's response reads. "Defendants further admit that two of these individuals are full time."

Most of the remaining allegations from DuBose were denied by the defendants, including her claim that she was "one of the highest selling specialist(s)" in the region.

As a major retailer in the U.S., Apple has been hit with a number of discrimination claims in court. One lawsuit filed in May alleged that employee's at Apple's store on the Upper West Side of New York City told two black men they were not welcome there.

Last December, one lawsuit came out of Apple's SoHo store in New York, accusing employees of discriminating against an employee after she took a medical leave of absence due to a nervous disorder. That same month, a man in his 60s accused Apple of age discrimination at a store in Orlando, Fla.
post #2 of 123
rubbish...
post #3 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

rubbish...

And you know this… how?

This stuff happens in retail all the time. It's not indicative of the company as a whole; it's almost always the store manager's biases. Most of the time, I don't even think it's conscious.

It's worth noting that St. Louis has slightly more black people than white people. (http://www.city-data.com/city/St.-Louis-Missouri.html) So only 8% of your staff be black in St. Louis seems a bit off.
Multiplex is an online comic strip about the staff of a movie theater.
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Multiplex is an online comic strip about the staff of a movie theater.
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post #4 of 123
Perception is reality folks - if she THINKS she was discriminated against then she was - at least in her own mind - proving it in court is another matter entirely.

What good are the numbers of how many of each race is employed? do they have statistics on how many applicants of any given race applied?

And why is it that those of us who are not minorities (although if you go back a few generations I'm sure I could come up with something) are expected to not have any bias etc - but the instant there is any perceived slight difference then those in the minority insist that it is a race issue of the highest order?

Many years ago I was explaining to a customer a standard procedure we had to follow that was causing a delay in processing her order - and she blew up in my face going on about how because she was black I was accusing her of fraud or some such - I was so shocked I was not sure what to say - I in no way shape or form had even considered her or anything about her as having anything whatsoever to do with the fact that we had a procedure that we followed in such cases for EVERY single customer regardless of race, religion, age, sex, etc etc.

more recently I had a boss who ran into a similar situation with reviews - where he always tried to give his direct reports the benefit of the doubt and only put positive things on their reviews - but then after having to explain to HR why he had to let an employee go despite consistently good reviews he has revised his policy on what information should be included in reviews, especially when there is a clear pattern. then he can use that documented process to clearly demonstrate a pattern.

of course the employee (especially the delusional ones) can claim that the supervisor was not accurately or fairly preparing the reviews.
post #5 of 123
If you do your job right you will be well treated, do it wrong and you have only your self to blame. I don't know St-Louis demography black vs white %, but if its around 10-20%, her Apple Store got the right ratio.

But what puzzle me even more is the fact that she made distinction between her situation and others lighter skinned African American. She look like to be the one who made race discrimination here.
post #6 of 123
OK, what in the hell is a 'STL cap' or 'thug life', and how are those offensive?

FTL, now that I would understand. STL not so much...
post #7 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

If you do your job right you will be well treated, do it wrong and you have only your self to blame. I don't know St-Louis demography black vs white %, but if its around 10-20%, her Apple Store got the right ratio.

But what puzzle me even more is the fact that she made distinction between her situation and others lighter skinned African American. She look like to be the one who made race discrimination here.

I posted a link to it. It's 47% black, 45% white. So Apple's 8% ratio is way off.

And whites very often find light-skinned blacks less intimidating or threatening than dark-skinned blacks, and lighter-skinned blacks are often considered more beautiful by whites, because they have "whiter" features. That's not puzzling or surprising if you've ever actually worked with or talked with black people or any minorities, really about this subject.
Multiplex is an online comic strip about the staff of a movie theater.
Reply
Multiplex is an online comic strip about the staff of a movie theater.
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post #8 of 123
St Louis is interesting because the city and surrounding county have much different demographics. St Louis County reports 23.3% black (according to the 2010 census) while St Louis City County reports 49.2% black (also 2010 census). The St Louis Galleria store is in Brentwood, MO, which is a smallish town with 1.8% black (census) but it's a typical inner suburb which is very close to other suburbs, so the potential work force can be drawn from all over. It's also close to a light rail station, so it's fairly convenient to a lot of people.

So I'd agree that 1/8 seems pretty low. On the other hand, I don't know the usual pool of applicants for those jobs, or the racial demographics of potentially qualified applicants. (For that matter, I don't even know what the qualifications are for work there.) So I wouldn't assume the facts of her case one way or the other.
post #9 of 123
This fool should be happy she has a job. In a declining economy with over 30 million people looking for work, any person who has a job should be grateful to the employer. If you don't like it, quit.

There are other ways to get a promotion and advancement in a work place, other than checking to see how many of your skin color types are present.

Obama is the president. How many black people out of the reported 453 employees in the white house are blacks? Less than 7 percent. Is any of them suing? Hell, no.

Apple should start letting employees sign an Arbitration Waiver like Walmart. Working at an Apple store is more than a retail job, you are getting an education for your future. Be grateful!
post #10 of 123
I've shopped at this store regularly since 2006, and have a pretty good idea who this plaintiff is. If I do, her inability to deal with difficult customers is not the only reason she would've been passed up.

Most of the staff as a whole has been fantastic and I've worked with Proffer a few times (concerning exchanges of defective MacBooks and in the course of spending almost $10,000 there). I've never detected any issues with racial bias there, and this is from someone who is at that store at least once a month. The court can dig into the nitty gritty, but my guess is that this is a severe overreach from someone creating an excuse to justify her lack of performance.
post #11 of 123
I'm not going to judge this particular case, but I do know for a fact that Missouri is hardly an 'enlightened' state. And has become even less so over the last few years.

It's like Mississippi is expanding Northward.
post #12 of 123
Being black myself, I see a lot of black people throw the race card into everything. As my mother used to say, look for anything long enough and you'll find it...or invent it
post #13 of 123
ALL hires at the stores should be technically able to handle the job first and foremost. Gender and race should not be applicable... Plus having a passion for the product, it is part of the culture... Apple customers expect a certain level of technical ability, and they want the experience, passion gives the experience....
post #14 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

And why is it that those of us who are not minorities (although if you go back a few generations I'm sure I could come up with something) are expected to not have any bias etc - but the instant there is any perceived slight difference then those in the minority insist that it is a race issue of the highest order?

Thank you! That's what I've always thought. I'm a minority myself too (Mexican) but there are way too many people who readily shout "discrimination!" without even bothering to come up with anything else. Who's being racist here?

Dealing with difficult customers is extremely important. A lot of Apple Store customers are not knowledgeable at all, and though it can be frustrating to explain the most basic of things this woman has to keep in mind that NO ONE likes a rude/inpatient salesperson. If you can't realize that or are not ready to accept that, maybe you shouldn't work there at all.

Perceived racism is not an excuse for underperformance. Ever.
post #15 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcalpin View Post

And you know this how?

You seem to be equally sure in the opposite direction.
Quote:
This stuff happens in retail all the time. It's not indicative of the company as a whole; it's almost always the store manager's biases. Most of the time, I don't even think it's conscious.

Not at all. Rather what you end up with is people bringing in their street attitude and disregard for other people and then expecting to succeed simply because they are there. If nothing else many people have an unreasonable expectation as to how they can behave in a setting that interfaces to the public.
Quote:
It's worth noting that St. Louis has slightly more black people than white people. (http://www.city-data.com/city/St.-Louis-Missouri.html) So only 8% of your staff be black in St. Louis seems a bit off.

What does that have to do with anything? How may of those people are Mac Owners or have a serious interest in things Apple. Mores so how many of those people actually apply for jobs at the Apple store.

in the end I already have an opinion and frankly rubbish is a pretty good description.
post #16 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstep View Post

OK, what in the hell is a 'STL cap' or 'thug life', and how are those offensive?

FTL, now that I would understand. STL not so much...

St. Louis Cardinals baseball hat.
post #17 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcalpin View Post

I posted a link to it. It's 47% black, 45% white. So Apple's 8% ratio is way off.

And whites very often find light-skinned blacks less intimidating or threatening than dark-skinned blacks, and lighter-skinned blacks are often considered more beautiful by whites, because they have "whiter" features. That's not puzzling or surprising if you've ever actually worked with or talked with black people or any minorities, really about this subject.

Yeah, it sounds pretty damning on the face of it. The fact that we are talking misogyny here as well as racism kind of makes it seem more likely she is telling the truth IMO.

As a side note, (relating to what you say above), it's also a fact that blacks on average find the lighter skinned blacks "more attractive" as well. The same is true in India. The lighter brown people are considered more attractive, the darker brown people are considered trash.

Please note these are all generalisations. I just wanted to point out that "lighter is better" is a cultural problem not limited to white folks alone.
post #18 of 123
Do they only sell white iPhones and iPads there?
post #19 of 123
I seems like every year somebody in the black community complains about the police issuing to many speeding tickets. the problem is if you live in a community that is mostly black then yeah it will look that way. However if you go to a different community you will likely see the same ticket writing going on. Why because people speed and without much effort you can catch people doing so just about anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

Perception is reality folks - if she THINKS she was discriminated against then she was - at least in her own mind - proving it in court is another matter entirely.

That is why I think anybody complaining about any sort of discrimination should have to submit to a mental evaluation. Frankly there is a mental component to much of this.
Quote:
What good are the numbers of how many of each race is employed? do they have statistics on how many applicants of any given race applied?

And why is it that those of us who are not minorities (although if you go back a few generations I'm sure I could come up with something) are expected to not have any bias etc - but the instant there is any perceived slight difference then those in the minority insist that it is a race issue of the highest order?

Frankly - because we have a gullible and very left wing media that laps this stuff up.
Quote:
Many years ago I was explaining to a customer a standard procedure we had to follow that was causing a delay in processing her order - and she blew up in my face going on about how because she was black I was accusing her of fraud or some such - I was so shocked I was not sure what to say - I in no way shape or form had even considered her or anything about her as having anything whatsoever to do with the fact that we had a procedure that we followed in such cases for EVERY single customer regardless of race, religion, age, sex, etc etc.

What is worst is that if you like your job there is little that you can do about these sorts of blow ups or melt downs.
Quote:
more recently I had a boss who ran into a similar situation with reviews - where he always tried to give his direct reports the benefit of the doubt and only put positive things on their reviews - but then after having to explain to HR why he had to let an employee go despite consistently good reviews he has revised his policy on what information should be included in reviews, especially when there is a clear pattern. then he can use that documented process to clearly demonstrate a pattern.

of course the employee (especially the delusional ones) can claim that the supervisor was not accurately or fairly preparing the reviews.

This is why there is a constant push to document everything in the work place. Unfortunately this often doesn't help matters any.
post #20 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanshutko View Post

St Louis is interesting because the city and surrounding county have much different demographics. St Louis County reports 23.3% black (according to the 2010 census) while St Louis City County reports 49.2% black (also 2010 census). The St Louis Galleria store is in Brentwood, MO, which is a smallish town with 1.8% black (census) but it's a typical inner suburb which is very close to other suburbs, so the potential work force can be drawn from all over. It's also close to a light rail station, so it's fairly convenient to a lot of people.

So I'd agree that 1/8 seems pretty low. On the other hand, I don't know the usual pool of applicants for those jobs, or the racial demographics of potentially qualified applicants. (For that matter, I don't even know what the qualifications are for work there.) So I wouldn't assume the facts of her case one way or the other.

Low, but not outrageously so. Other bordering communities are Clayton, Ladue, Webster Groves, and University City, all of which would be similar racial demographics to Brentwood, making the 8% seem a little low (15-20% would seem more reasonable). Clayton, Ladue, and U City are all affluent neighborhoods, and someone that does not deal well with aggressive customers would be doomed.
post #21 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcalpin View Post

And you know this how?

This stuff happens in retail all the time. It's not indicative of the company as a whole; it's almost always the store manager's biases. Most of the time, I don't even think it's conscious.

It's worth noting that St. Louis has slightly more black people than white people. (http://www.city-data.com/city/St.-Louis-Missouri.html) So only 8% of your staff be black in St. Louis seems a bit off.

I know this because the diversity across Apple's Campus is a true melting pot. They promote capability, professionalism, intelligence and talent in the position you hold and want to achieve.

If only the rest of the US was as ethnically diverse as Apple we wouldn't have a Tea Party that is chalk full of fundamentalists, bigots, fanatics and shallow thinkers.
post #22 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcalpin View Post

I posted a link to it. It's 47% black, 45% white. So Apple's 8% ratio is way off.

This attitude is so off. My best friend and I worked at an upscale clothing retail store and she complained to me that we were the only gay people there. She thought that the fact that the store did not have exactly 10% gay employees that the store was homophobic even though she was a manager and we went out with the other managers all the time.

When I suggested that it may be that not a lot of gay people were applying, she said that was even worse because it meant people must KNOW we were homophobes and not even want to apply.

Some people will always believe they are being persecuted.
post #23 of 123
Your conclusion is "numerical" not factual. Do you have an axe to grind perhaps?
post #24 of 123
I find this interesting because there is a large number of African Americans at my place of work, along with a bunch of other minorities. Generally the staff does not throw in the race card.

As to people melting down and blaming everybody but themselves that is not the domain of anyone race. Believe me, I've seen al sorts of people slip off the edge over the years. Frankly some never make it back.

This discussion is sort of related to the frame of mind that some have about Apples Chinese contractors. People go about stretching the facts as much as they can to promote the idea that the factories are causing suicides for example. Yet they forget that in their own back yards people have taken their own lives. The difference is they blame the person here and not the company they work for.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hamiltonrrwatch View Post

Being black myself, I see a lot of black people throw the race card into everything. As my mother used to say, look for anything long enough and you'll find it...or invent it
post #25 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcalpin View Post

I posted a link to it. It's 47% black, 45% white. So Apple's 8% ratio is way off.

And whites very often find light-skinned blacks less intimidating or threatening than dark-skinned blacks, and lighter-skinned blacks are often considered more beautiful by whites, because they have "whiter" features. That's not puzzling or surprising if you've ever actually worked with or talked with black people or any minorities, really about this subject.

They say statistics are for losers, again, do you have an axe to grind?
post #26 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigernetic View Post

I've shopped at this store regularly since 2006, and have a pretty good idea who this plaintiff is. If I do, her inability to deal with difficult customers is not the only reason she would've been passed up.

Most of the staff as a whole has been fantastic and I've worked with Proffer a few times (concerning exchanges of defective MacBooks and in the course of spending almost $10,000 there). I've never detected any issues with racial bias there, and this is from someone who is at that store at least once a month. The court can dig into the nitty gritty, but my guess is that this is a severe overreach from someone creating an excuse to justify her lack of performance.

Law suits are often used as the fast track to wealth and position. An attempt for the "unearned."
post #27 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcalpin View Post

I posted a link to it. It's 47% black, 45% white. So Apple's 8% ratio is way off.

Wonder what the racial breakdown of Apple's customers in that store are?

We can all play this "race game by numbers".
post #28 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

... That is why I think anybody complaining about any sort of discrimination should have to submit to a mental evaluation. Frankly there is a mental component to much of this. ...

This statement goes way too far IMO.
I think you are either going off the deep end in an attempt to make your point, or you are a strong racist (or at least inclined that way) yourself.

Black people *are* discriminated against by the white folks, as are gays and asians and all kinds of other groups. It *does* happen and not everyone who makes a complaint is crazy. They certainly shouldn't just be immediately assumed to be so without any evidence whatsoever.

The last story on Apple Insider that covered the racism topic was those two "gangstas" that got thrown out of the Apple store for looking like crooks. Only going *slightly* below the surface on that one revealed all kinds of indications why the persons in question were making a big deal out of essentially nothing. In other words, their case falls apart on even the most cursory examination.

In this case on the other hand, (even though it may also turn out to be nothing in the end), all the details the lady is able to give seem to prop up her assertions.

Given that there is *nothing* in what this woman is saying (at least that we know about so far) that is questionable or unreasonable or unbelievable, the fact that you immediately dismiss it out of hand kind of smacks of racism.

You have no rational basis to disbelieve her, yet you do, and vehemently.

The USA is one of the most racist countries on Earth, if not the most racist. It's not *that * unlikely that what she says is true.
post #29 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

I know this because the diversity across Apple's Campus is a true melting pot. They promote capability, professionalism, intelligence and talent in the position you hold and want to achieve.

This is true of most big corporations these days. However that is a goal or ideal they would like to achieve, corporation however are made up of people and people can often stray from the party line.
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If only the rest of the US was as ethnically diverse as Apple we wouldn't have a Tea Party

don't you mean the Democratic Party?
Quote:
that is chalk full of fundamentalists, bigots, fanatics and shallow thinkers.

You see you demonstrate the same sort of ignorance that you accuses the Team Party members of being involved in. Frankly it is pretty easy to demonstrate that those in the Democratic Party are shallow ignorant thinkers, self centered, thieves, lazy and not concerned about the welfare of their fellow man. In fact one could easy see the parties name being changed to the Lazy No Good Thieves Party with the result that it would be a more accurate name.

In any event it doesn't support your point to fall into the same behavior you are trying to use as a negative indicator.
post #30 of 123
Oh cry me a river.
I'm not advancing, so lets play the race and gender card.
Really?
good luck to you when you have no job and no one else will hire you because of this lawsuit.
Oh wait, that is your plan isn't it? Sue Apple and live off the money.
my bad.
post #31 of 123
... or maybe she's just an asshole. I've heard that made promotion difficult too.
post #32 of 123
There was enough evidence for the EEOC to allow the employee to pursue a lawsuit. I grew up in St. Louis and the racial demographics can change greatly from one community to another. Is Apple simply employing people or are they committed to training professionals? If the Manager only documents an employees positive attributes, is he or she doing the employee a disservice by not giving them constructive criticism on things that they can work on in order to progress within Apples system? Let's give her the benefit of the doubt until all the facts are revealed.
post #33 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

This statement goes way too far IMO.
I think you are either going off the deep end in an attempt to make your point, or you are a strong racist (or at least inclined that way) yourself.

Black people *are* discriminated against by the white folks, as are gays and asians and all kinds of other groups. It *does* happen and not everyone who makes a complaint is crazy. They certainly shouldn't just be immediately assumed to be so without any evidence whatsoever.

The last story on Apple Insider that covered the racism topic was those two "gangstas" that got thrown out of the Apple store for looking like crooks. Only going *slightly* below the surface on that one revealed all kinds of indications why the persons in question were making a big deal out of essentially nothing. In other words, their case falls apart on even the most cursory examination.

In this case on the other hand, (even though it may also turn out to be nothing in the end), all the details the lady is able to give seem to prop up her assertions.

Given that there is *nothing* in what this woman is saying (at least that we know about so far) that is questionable or unreasonable or unbelievable, the fact that you immediately dismiss it out of hand kind of smacks of racism.

You have no rational basis to disbelieve her, yet you do, and vehemently.

The USA is one of the most racist countries on Earth, if not the most racist. It's not *that * unlikely that what she says is true.

Great posts.

I for one am not going to write this case off as many of you have and I believe its racist of some of you to quickly call this fine girl names claiming that the Apple store was most likely in the right. I believe that her claims could be true and I hope that she finds the justice she deserves. If her claims aren't true, I hope that her case begins to shine a light on the issue of racism in high end retail such as Apple stores.
post #34 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

This statement goes way too far IMO.
I think you are either going off the deep end in an attempt to make your point, or you are a strong racist (or at least inclined that way) yourself.

What deep end, people mental state is and has been used in courts of law for years. Heck if you are far enough off the deep end you can get away with murder. This has nothing to do with race and frankly would nip a bunch of these lawsuits in the butt.
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Black people *are* discriminated against by the white folks, as are gays and asians and all kinds of other groups. It *does* happen and not everyone who makes a complaint is crazy. They certainly shouldn't just be immediately assumed to be so without any evidence whatsoever.

Ah but there is evidence that people have mental issues and if that is the case it should impact how a lawsuit goes forward.
Quote:
The last story on Apple Insider that covered the racism topic was those two "gangstas" that got thrown out of the Apple store for looking like crooks. Only going *slightly* below the surface on that one revealed all kinds of indications why the persons in question were making a big deal out of essentially nothing. In other words, their case falls apart on even the most cursory examination.

As might this one, we don't know yet. The whole point of forcing these people into mental examines is that it can effectively weed out those that are having issues from those that are suffering from real discrimination.

You see I have no illusions about discrimination, harassment and the like, I've seen it myself. At the same time I've seen many cases where people simply don't grasp how far out of the norm they are.
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In this case on the other hand, (even though it may also turn out to be nothing in the end), all the details the lady is able to give seem to prop up her assertions.

Actually nothing I've heard works in her defense. You either are reading between the lines or know something the rest of us don't know. For me this is a classic example of somebody that for what ever reason can't adapt to the expected behavior in the work place. Now we can speculate as to why but lets face it if the store feels they are loosing customers because of her then I have to wonder why she even works there anymore.
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Given that there is *nothing* in what this woman is saying (at least that we know about so far) that is questionable or unreasonable or unbelievable, the fact that you immediately dismiss it out of hand kind of smacks of racism.

This is very ignorant of you as you have twice called me racists with absolutely no justification. Everything I've seen says she has no credibility what so ever. Obviously you are biasing your reading of this article, because everything I've seen says this woman has a huge issue dealing with people.
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You have no rational basis to disbelieve her, yet you do, and vehemently.

Did you red the article? It has all the indicators I need to judge what is going on. That could certainly change with more info but it is interesting you are the only one here defending her with any vigor.

Look again at the article and explain to me how you would support this woman. Honestly she is stretching things to the limit to try to make a case. References to a baseball cap is just one item that condemns her to the looney tunes bin.

I say looney tunes because if she was trying to rationally make something up she would have documentation. Instead she has a complaint that rambles on and is incoherent.
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The USA is one of the most racist countries on Earth, if not the most racist. It's not *that * unlikely that what she says is true.

Actually I'd have to say that you are way off base here. You need to travel to other countries to really get a flavor for racism.

As to what she says it might be true in her mind but I suspect nobody else even comes close to believing her. It has all the markings of somebody complaining about their job and not getting what the responsibilities and personal characteristics are required to be successful. In other words she is living in a dream land.
post #35 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

Great posts.

I for one am not going to write this case off as many of you have and I believe its racist of some of you to quickly call this fine girl names claiming that the Apple store was most likely in the right. I believe that her claims could be true and I hope that she finds the justice she deserves.

Look at what the woman has written and referenced. If that is your idea of a fine girl then you have some very serious issues you need to work out. Of course you won't go back and look closely at what was written as you have already made up your mind that she is a fine girl.

By the way you can take all references to race out of the posting and come to the same conclusion. It has nothing to do with racism and simply is an example of a person that can't grasp what is required of them to be successful. It is seen all the time in the work place and has nothing to do with racism.

In any event I will urge you one more time to read carefully what is written in the article and more specifically what she is alleged to have said. If you think she is a fine girl then you really need to spend some time thinking about how you came to that conclusion. Here is the thing; most stores would have zero tolerance to somebody pissing off customers, so in my mind it looks like this store went out of its way to try to turn her in the right direction. So in reality they are getting screwed over buy this woman for trying to help her out.

Frankly this is a really sad commentary on the state of America.
post #36 of 123
This is an interesting post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

Great posts.

I for one am not going to write this case off as many of you have and I believe its racist of some of you to quickly call this fine girl names claiming that the Apple store was most likely in the right. I believe that her claims could be true and I hope that she finds the justice she deserves. If her claims aren't true, I hope that her case begins to shine a light on the issue of racism in high end retail such as Apple stores.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

I for one am not going to write this case off as many of you have

While I agree that the claim should not be automatically dismissed and further information is required to make an informed judgement here. You then turn around and seem to do the same thing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

I believe its racist of some of you to quickly call this fine girl names claiming that the Apple store was most likely in the right.

You make unwarranted assumptions about those dismissing the claims.

But it's your last statement that's most interesting:

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook View Post

If her claims aren't true, I hope that her case begins to shine a light on the issue of racism in high end retail such as Apple stores.

You are saying that if her claims are not true, if she's either mistaken in her perceptions or deliberately making a false accusation then you hope this will "shine a light on the issue of racism in high end retail such as Apple stores" which would appear to not have happened if her claims aren't true.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #37 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Look at what the woman has written and referenced. If that is your idea of a fine girl then you have some very serious issues you need to work out. Of course you won't go back and look closely at what was written as you have already made up your mind that she is a fine girl.

By the way you can take all references to race out of the posting and come to the same conclusion. It has nothing to do with racism and simply is an example of a person that can't grasp what is required of them to be successful. It is seen all the time in the work place and has nothing to do with racism.

In any event I will urge you one more time to read carefully what is written in the article and more specifically what she is alleged to have said. If you think she is a fine girl then you really need to spend some time thinking about how you came to that conclusion. Here is the thing; most stores would have zero tolerance to somebody pissing off customers, so in my mind it looks like this store went out of its way to try to turn her in the right direction. So in reality they are getting screwed over buy this woman for trying to help her out.

Frankly this is a really sad commentary on the state of America.

I don't see anything that she said that would clearly show you that has mental problems. I think it's interesting that in the 3 years she's worked there no minorities have had any promotions. It could be a coincidence or it could be a real legitimate issue going on.
post #38 of 123
Apple, the new Abercrombie and Fitch. Well, I could be wrong but until recently I have not seen many minorities in Apple advertisements. Just shiny happy snowboarders, or mountain climbers, or people at the beach.

Personally, I believe her story. Not that Apple per se is bad, but in this case the store may have had such a policy or problem with minorities.
post #39 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

You are saying that if her claims are not true, if she's either mistaken in her perceptions or deliberately making a false accusation then you hope this will "shine a light on the issue of racism in high end retail such as Apple stores" which would appear to not have happened if her claims aren't true.

The case making headlines and being in the news is itself shining the light on the issue.
post #40 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Apple, the new Abercrombie and Fitch. Well, I could be wrong but until recently I have not seen many minorities in Apple advertisements. Just shiny happy snowboarders, or mountain climbers, or people at the beach.

Personally, I believe her story. Not that Apple per se is bad, but in this case the store may have had such a policy or problem with minorities.

Rubbish
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