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Apple retail plans, sources point to Mac OS X Lion launch next week - Page 4

post #121 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen Meaney View Post

Can you list what *signficant* apps are actually using Grand Central Dispatch, btw?

Do you even know what GCD is? It is a key technology, frankly any developer not using it is incompetent.
post #122 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

Perhaps an example of what you're talking about might be that Apple have added the launchpad, but still don't have a command that removes an installed app and all of its components.

If the application in question came as a package (pkg), you can completely remove it with the following two commands:

Code:

sudo pkgutil --unlink com.Vendor.Application
sudo pkgutil --forget com.Vendor.Application



Of course, you have to use the right package name.

UNIX way rules
post #123 of 145
Does anyone know how this scenario will work in the near future? It's one I've been mulling over for several days now.

I have a mid-2009 MacBook Pro (that came with Snow Leopard as the pre-installed OS) that I might sell soon and replace with a mid-2011 MacBook Air. In the meantime, I plan to upgrade the MacBook Pro to Lion. When I sell it, I plan to format/restore it for the next owner (of course). I would like to restore it with Lion for the new owner, as this would be the latest OS that I will have loaded onto the machine myself - well within the rights afforded by my $29.99 Mac App Store purchase. Let's say that something happens with the machine (while in possession of the new owner) and that person needs to restore it with a new install of Lion. Could I legally pass along a bootable copy of Lion with the machine and would it still be legit? Would it be "legal" under the Mac App Store's policy?

It seems that before (when you bought an upgrade to OS X on disc) the OS license could be tied to the machine by simply passing the disc along to the new owner. This time around, it seems more like the OS purchase is tied to the user's Apple ID instead of the machine.
post #124 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockarollr View Post

Does anyone know how this scenario will work in the near future? It's one I've been mulling over for several days now.

I have a mid-2009 MacBook Pro (that came with Snow Leopard as the pre-installed OS) that I might sell soon and replace with a mid-2011 MacBook Air. In the meantime, I plan to upgrade the MacBook Pro to Lion. When I sell it, I plan to format/restore it for the next owner (of course). I would like to restore it with Lion for the new owner, as this would be the latest OS that I will have loaded onto the machine myself - well within the rights afforded by my $29.99 Mac App Store purchase. Let's say that something happens with the machine (while in possession of the new owner) and that person needs to restore it with a new install of Lion. Could I legally pass along a bootable copy of Lion with the machine and would it still be legit? Would it be "legal" under the Mac App Store's policy?

It seems that before (when you bought an upgrade to OS X on disc) the OS license could be tied to the machine by simply passing the disc along to the new owner. This time around, it seems more like the OS purchase is tied to the user's Apple ID instead of the machine.

In the United States, you would be protected by the SCOTUS ruling on backups. It could be argued that if you bought and installed Lion, then made a backup as permitted by the SCOTUS, that you would be obligated to either transfer the backup with the machine when selling it or destroy it. It would probably not be legal to keep your backup of the install image -- unless doing so is expressly permitted by Apple's license agreement, which I doubt.
Mac user since August 1983.
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Mac user since August 1983.
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post #125 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

In the United States, you would be protected by the SCOTUS ruling on backups. It could be argued that if you bought and installed Lion, then made a backup as permitted by the SCOTUS, that you would be obligated to either transfer the backup with the machine when selling it or destroy it. It would probably not be legal to keep your backup of the install image -- unless doing so is expressly permitted by Apple's license agreement, which I doubt.

First and foremost, I would like to thank you for your reply. It is much appreciated.

So, if I understand you correctly, I would be obligated to transfer a copy of the Lion image with the machine if I sold it to the person with Lion already installed? I personally feel that would be the right thing to do, but am I actually obligated? Maybe what you're saying is, according to this SCOTUS precedent, I would be legally obligated to no longer have a copy of the OS in my possession if the machine it was meant for transferred ownership. Keep in mind that it's not a single-machine license nor single physical copy (on a disc or USB drive) of Lion we're talking about here. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding your point.

If I also own a 27" iMac that I'm allowed to install a copy of Lion onto per the Mac App Store license agreement (which just so happens to be the case here) then I would be allowed to keep a backup of the Lion install image in my possession while also passing along an image of Lion with the MacBook Pro being sold, correct?
post #126 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockarollr View Post

First and foremost, I would like to thank you for your reply. It is much appreciated.

So, if I understand you correctly, I would be obligated to transfer a copy of the Lion image with the machine if I sold it to the person with Lion already installed?

No, not necessarily. I'm writing that IF you make a backup copy of software you're licensed to run on that machine, then you probably need to either transfer the backup copy together with the machine or destroy the backup copy. Keeping the backup copy when selling the machine might be illegal in the US and some other jurisdictions. (In some non-US jurisdictions it might be illegal to make the backup copy in the first place, though I've never heard of this being enforced.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockarollr View Post

I personally feel that would be the right thing to do, but am I actually obligated? Maybe what you're saying is, according to this SCOTUS precedent, I would be legally obligated to no longer have a copy of the OS in my possession if the machine it was meant for transferred ownership.

I mean it's not obvious what your legal basis for keeping the backup copy would be once you've sold the machine. However, see below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockarollr View Post

If I also own a 27" iMac that I'm allowed to install a copy of Lion onto per the Mac App Store license agreement (which just so happens to be the case here) then I would be allowed to keep a backup of the Lion install image in my possession while also passing along an image of Lion with the MacBook Pro being sold, correct?

Yes, correct, in the US.
Mac user since August 1983.
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Mac user since August 1983.
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post #127 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by aknabi View Post

I think he has... just stating that for content and power user folks this isn't innovation inside, but iOS on the outside...

or you simply don't understand why for serious users the underlying platform innovations are so important

Oh, I understand very well. Don't talk about power users, you don't know what I do.
post #128 of 145
I won't be upgrading. There's absolutely nothing compelling in it for me. \
post #129 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

I won't be upgrading. There's absolutely nothing compelling in it for me. \

It fundamentally changes your computer's workflow. If you have no reason to upgrade, you have no reason to have moved to a computer from paper.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #130 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

I won't be upgrading. There's absolutely nothing compelling in it for me. \

That statement is absurd. This is one of the biggest Mac OS updates to come in a very long time. You are very uninformed if you believe there is nothing compelling in Lion. There are improvements for just about every type of user; from the command line junky, to the document writer, to the game player, or the graphics designer. There are so man improvements that I can't take your statement seriously.
post #131 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

That statement is absurd. This is one of the biggest Mac OS updates to come in a very long time. You are very uninformed if you believe there is nothing compelling in Lion. There are improvements for just about every type of user; from the command line junky, to the document writer, to the game player, or the graphics designer. There are so man improvements that I can't take your statement seriously.

I don't disagree with you; in fact as a programmer I can see lots of potential in some of the new features in Lion. I am curious, as I haven't noticed much myself, of what the improvements in Lion for gaming are. Have they done any substantial work on the graphic drivers? They really, even for comparing OpenGL from OS X to Windows on the same card, quite a bit behind their Windows counterparts.
post #132 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

...There are improvements for just about every type of user.

You mean the cutesy interfaces for Address Book and Calendar? Or the completely useless launchpad? Or full screen which I think is completely useless on a desktop? The app store which I already have in SL?

And I imagine the font/spacing issue for the Help Menu still hasn't been fixed...
post #133 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

I won't be upgrading. There's absolutely nothing compelling in it for me. \

Then there should be nothing in it for you to continue bitching about it.
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post #134 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Then there should be nothing in it for you to continue bitching about it.

How was I bitching about it exactly? I merely said I wouldn't be upgrading and then got attacked by a fanboy...
post #135 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

How was I bitching about it exactly? I merely said I wouldn't be upgrading and then got attacked by a fanboy...

People who consider themselves anti-fanboys would say the exact same thing I said.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

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post #136 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

How was I bitching about it exactly? I merely said I wouldn't be upgrading and then got attacked by a fanboy...

Maybe you're just a petty and superficial ass but your comments come across as trolling. Your posts in the thread keep asserting the same lame examples to assure everyone that all of Lion is crap.

Personally, I do not care for the look and feel of Address Book or iCal, and have removed LaunchPad from my Dock as soon as that was possible in Preview 2, but for me to say that these three things represent all of Lion or that Lion is not a worthy effort nor well worth the $30 cost would be a bald face lie. The fact is Lion is a brilliant update for any serious Mac OS user.
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post #137 of 145
Your characterizations are just plain ignorant. This eu terraces take time to code for one. Beyond that many apps have to be almost completely rewritten to support many of the new features of OS/X and iCloud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

You mean the cutesy interfaces for Address Book and Calendar?

Another way to look at those interfaces is that they work really well for a large number of Apples users. In any event you seem to view things from the surface and don't even attempt a shallow understanding of what is being offered up.
Quote:
Or the completely useless launchpad? Or full screen which I think is completely useless on a desktop?

Full screen mode is useless? Honestly you believe that.
Quote:
The app store which I already have in SL?

And I imagine the font/spacing issue for the Help Menu still hasn't been fixed...

If you would actually take the time to look at the publically released information, that is the 250 new features Apple squawks about you might start to think a bit. You might even say to yourself gee what did they do to the system to enable those features.

In any event you seem to not realize what an operating system is for. It is not about the Apple supplied apps even if people expect them these days. What an OS does is enables the development of software through APIs. If you look at Lion in this regard it is a massive update. It builds upon the foundations first deployed in Snow Leopard to provide developers with a robust place to run their apps.

I'm not even sure where this idea that Operating System updates are all about the user software. Users run apps, apps come after the deployment of the OS.

Now maybe even after developers gave a shot at Lion you won't find any apps compelling on Lion. I suggest that you will be in a very very tiny minority.
post #138 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Maybe you're just a petty and superficial ass but your comments come across as trolling.

The further he goes down this path the worst he looks. In fact he makes a superficial ass look useful to society.
Quote:
Your posts in the thread keep asserting the same lame examples to assure everyone that all of Lion is crap.

I don't think any major update can please everybody in all aspects of the update. I'm sure that each of us will take displeasure with a feature or two. The problem with this guy is that he apparently can't grasp that there is a lot of good in Lion nor that delivering this good took a lot of effort.
Quote:
Personally, I do not care for the look and feel of Address Book or iCal, and have removed LaunchPad from my Dock as soon as that was possible in Preview 2, but for me to say that these three things represent all of Lion or that Lion is not a worthy effort and well worth the $30 cost would be a bald face lie. The fact is Lion is a brilliant update for any serious Mac OS user.

That is pretty much my take also. Without going into details it is an impressive collection of new technologies and improvements to old ones.
post #139 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

You mean the cutesy interfaces for Address Book and Calendar? Or the completely useless launchpad? Or full screen which I think is completely useless on a desktop? The app store which I already have in SL?

And I imagine the font/spacing issue for the Help Menu still hasn't been fixed...

The cutesy interfaces are certainly designed for the more casual users. What exactly is it you do? I really do feel there is something for everyone with Lion. Airdrop is pretty impressive and no other OS has something quite like it yet. Definitely useful. Cocoa support in Applescript applets is fantastic. Autosave fundamentally changes how you operate on a computer, and I for one cannot wait for it's appearance. Proper boolean searches across the Finder and all sorts of other apps is a great addition.

The ability to merge folders is finally here.

Full-screen apps in and of itself isn't that impressive, but how they've managed to make it seamless to switch between full screen apps or back to the desktop is ingenious. Launchpad, while I was a little "eh" initially, is truly a great way to manage your apps. Part of what makes it great is how quickly you can get at it. The new Mail is a huge improvement as far as usability and readability goes over the last one. If you're running on a newer laptop, it cannot be put into words how effective the multitouch implementation is; it makes working on a laptop far more pleasant.

Quicktime now has greater sharing options as well as the ability to merge two clips. Resume is a great feature that I can't wait to be using. The new Safari is really great and I haven't used another web browser that comes anywhere close to it in how it feels to use. The ability to remotely log into your Mac and your account while someone is on the computer and using it is pretty neat. Application Sandboxing is a huge boost to system security. As a programmer, versions looks great. There's been so many times when I wish I could just hop back to a few saves ago to grab something I got rid of that I'd like back. Versions makes this possible.

Even the whole shift of paradigm from interacting with applications to interacting with content is great.

Really, there's something for everyone in this update. I think you won't get a full feeling of how many changes and improvements there are until it comes out and some complete reviews start coming out. I've been using Lion through the DPs and it's hard to go back to Snow Leopard after getting used to some of the changes. I am unequivocally more productive in Lion, and for once, I'm not always missing my mouse when I have to work on the go.
post #140 of 145
You forgot to mention that every application automatically saves all content (and VERSIONS of all content) so that you never have to lose data EVER AGAIN and can restart your workflow right where you left off.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #141 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You forgot to mention that every application automatically saves all content (and VERSIONS of all content) so that you never have to lose data EVER AGAIN and can restart your workflow right where you left off.

I love that Time Machine works on my MBP even when I have no connection to my actual Time Machine drive using Snapshots. It's a much easier and user friendly option than Windows rollback feature.
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post #142 of 145
What's really groundbreakingn about lion, isn't any of it's new features. It's the FIRST OS release since 10.0 that ACTUALLY AIMS TO FIX THE MANY GRIPS that people have with the OS. It's finally fixed nearly 3,000+ under the hood stuff, including redesigning the entire FINDER.app, the metadata system that controls who you view files and folders, simple 30+ ways to view your files in the finder, the ability to do simple things like "date added" in the finder add to the under the hood fixes. The long standing fixes of locked screensaver bug being put into an actual sandboxed system so I can't get everyone's 10.6 root password who has a screensaver is just a +.

Apple pushed all under the hood forward, so that the future for OS X will remain bright. Things like setting up iChat with a plugin system, switching webkit to use mozilla plugin architecture, allowing plugins in the finder, tons of little things like this to allow the system to grow and be customized. Not to mention everything in the finder is PUSHED through grand central dispatch. Something like this will come along in another 8 years in a modern windows system.

You entire computing experience is being optimized to actually use all those chip cores and GPU power you've been given.

It's worth the upgrade, apple putting partition for reinstall in place, building you a system that doesn't require you to have a disc if you crash, a system that has VERSION CONTROL built into the file system, one that remembers what you were doing This is the way of the future Apple is building for the future, now is the time to make yourself familiar with what will surely be the path going forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseus1923 View Post

Not all all I have read lots about Lion. So how about you telling me or try to convince me what exactly is so ground breaking about Lion as turning my desktop or laptop into an oversized iPhone doesn't quite work for me or my business. Seriously I would love to be convinced.

Alos having the release as a download only is plain stupid. For me it is fine as I have a 50Mb connection but what about other users and countries where their connections are limited or in reality impossible to do a 4GB download.
post #143 of 145
Also people in other countries don't use discs, they use a fucking USB key You can go to an apple store or someone with broadband or mail your friends a fucking copy of the OS on a $5 USB key, nobody will suffer, for IT departments it's a HUGE boost, because you can do much better now what is called "slipstreaming" on windows where you build a custom version of OS X to install on the IT department computers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by webmail View Post

What's really groundbreakingn about lion, isn't any of it's new features. It's the FIRST OS release since 10.0 that ACTUALLY AIMS TO FIX THE MANY GRIPS that people have with the OS. It's finally fixed nearly 3,000+ under the hood stuff, including redesigning the entire FINDER.app, the metadata system that controls who you view files and folders, simple 30+ ways to view your files in the finder, the ability to do simple things like "date added" in the finder add to the under the hood fixes. The long standing fixes of locked screensaver bug being put into an actual sandboxed system so I can't get everyone's 10.6 root password who has a screensaver is just a +.

Apple pushed all under the hood forward, so that the future for OS X will remain bright. Things like setting up iChat with a plugin system, switching webkit to use mozilla plugin architecture, allowing plugins in the finder, tons of little things like this to allow the system to grow and be customized. Not to mention everything in the finder is PUSHED through grand central dispatch. Something like this will come along in another 8 years in a modern windows system.

You entire computing experience is being optimized to actually use all those chip cores and GPU power you've been given.

It's worth the upgrade, apple putting partition for reinstall in place, building you a system that doesn't require you to have a disc if you crash, a system that has VERSION CONTROL built into the file system, one that remembers what you were doing This is the way of the future Apple is building for the future, now is the time to make yourself familiar with what will surely be the path going forward.
post #144 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by webmail View Post

What's really groundbreakingn about lion, isn't any of it's new features. It's the FIRST OS release since 10.0 that ACTUALLY AIMS TO FIX THE MANY GRIPS that people have with the OS. It's finally fixed nearly 3,000+ under the hood stuff, including redesigning the entire FINDER.app, the metadata system that controls who you view files and folders, simple 30+ ways to view your files in the finder, the ability to do simple things like "date added" in the finder add to the under the hood fixes. The long standing fixes of locked screensaver bug being put into an actual sandboxed system so I can't get everyone's 10.6 root password who has a screensaver is just a +.

Apple pushed all under the hood forward, so that the future for OS X will remain bright. Things like setting up iChat with a plugin system, switching webkit to use mozilla plugin architecture, allowing plugins in the finder, tons of little things like this to allow the system to grow and be customized. Not to mention everything in the finder is PUSHED through grand central dispatch. Something like this will come along in another 8 years in a modern windows system.

You entire computing experience is being optimized to actually use all those chip cores and GPU power you've been given.

It's worth the upgrade, apple putting partition for reinstall in place, building you a system that doesn't require you to have a disc if you crash, a system that has VERSION CONTROL built into the file system, one that remembers what you were doing This is the way of the future Apple is building for the future, now is the time to make yourself familiar with what will surely be the path going forward.


Great post. Would it be okay if I repost this elsewhere? I tried to PM you about this, but that seems not to be working.
post #145 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by webmail View Post

What's really groundbreakingn about lion, isn't any of it's new features. It's the FIRST OS release since 10.0 that ACTUALLY AIMS TO FIX THE MANY GRIPS that people have with the OS. It's finally fixed nearly 3,000+ under the hood stuff, including redesigning the entire FINDER.app, the metadata system that controls who you view files and folders, simple 30+ ways to view your files in the finder, the ability to do simple things like "date added" in the finder add to the under the hood fixes. The long standing fixes of locked screensaver bug being put into an actual sandboxed system so I can't get everyone's 10.6 root password who has a screensaver is just a +.

Apple pushed all under the hood forward, so that the future for OS X will remain bright. Things like setting up iChat with a plugin system, switching webkit to use mozilla plugin architecture, allowing plugins in the finder, tons of little things like this to allow the system to grow and be customized. Not to mention everything in the finder is PUSHED through grand central dispatch. Something like this will come along in another 8 years in a modern windows system.

You entire computing experience is being optimized to actually use all those chip cores and GPU power you've been given.

It's worth the upgrade, apple putting partition for reinstall in place, building you a system that doesn't require you to have a disc if you crash, a system that has VERSION CONTROL built into the file system, one that remembers what you were doing… This is the way of the future… Apple is building for the future, now is the time to make yourself familiar with what will surely be the path going forward.

But is it snappier?

I recall SL supposedly being the release that would fix all of the problems of Leopard and was designed with nothing else in mind but core improvements as well...

Maybe if Apple had focused more on what it fixes instead of 'hey look you can use a pinch motion now' type demos I'd be more interested.

In any event I won't be upgrading. My iMac might technically be supported, but just barely and it's slow enough now that I don't need to bog it down even more with an eye-candy heavy update. And I won't be getting a new iMac as long as Apple doesn't offer a matte screen.

I guess I'll just have to be content with reading all the posts on here as to how super awesome it is.
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