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Motorola confirms Apollo for early 2002

post #1 of 53
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<a href="http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0112/04.motorola.php" target="_blank">http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0112/04.motorola.php</a>
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post #2 of 53
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Motorola wait to officially announce the original G4 until Apple announced it in the PowerMacs? This could be the same situation with the G5. I can see Moto and IBM announcing details on CPU upgrades (like 7410-7450-7460, and the 750-750CXe, etc.) but an ENTIRELY new generation of CPU, like the G5 would probably be kept under wraps, especially since Apple has been developing a lot of it in-house for their PowerMacs.
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post #3 of 53
This is pretty bad news if correct (and it seems correct). It says Apollo will NOT be manufactured using .13 SOI, but .18 SOI... We'll be lucky to get 1GHz out of this Expo. And it looks like the G5 isn't even close to being released for desktops.
post #4 of 53
Ahhh. All the naysayers of doom and gloom. I'm willing to bet 64MB RAM on GHz mac at the expo....Any takers?
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post #5 of 53
Oh, there'll be a ghz G4 at the top of the pile. Maybe even a dual. And the whole hoopla will be that it breaks the ghz barrier. No 1.2, 1.4, 1.6 like everyone's hoping, though.
post #6 of 53
Steve must be all over Motorola like a rash.

I think its clear: GHz G3 LCD iMacs & GHz G4 Quicksilvers at SanFran + iPod enhancements (the fabled iPhoto?)

No G5's til New York and 10.2
post #7 of 53
Maybe steve wanted this leaked out, or announced as it were, so calm the mad speculation on the g5s that they cant deliver on for mwsf.
post #8 of 53
Weren't the Apollos also designed with, i don't know, laptops in mind?
Then it makes perfect sense for moto to be announcing Apollo. It will be in the next-gen TiBook. Also, IBM has announced the next-gen G3, which would go very nicely in the next-gen ibook.
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post #9 of 53
Nowhere does Motorola DENY that a G5 will debut. Only that a 7460 'Apollo' G4 is scheduled to debut soon.
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post #10 of 53
Wasn't one of the supposed advantages of going to a .13µ process, to greatly reduce the amount of heat produced by the chips? If so, then staying at a .18µ process might point to these chips being used for desktop Macs after all, no?
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post #11 of 53
The fact that Motorola announced this chip (whose specs we've known for quite some time) tell us NOTHING about the status of the G5.

The G5 is still a possibility, but appears to be a longshot at this point.
post #12 of 53
What we really need right now it is a new Mobo with DDR and a faster bus...
I do not think that it is unreasonnable expectations........
post #13 of 53
About that line saying Apollo is on .18 SOI.

I have two guess as to the meaning of that statement:

1. It could be an error, and they meant .13.

Or, more interesting:

2. It could be that they've decided to save their more advanced manufacturing process for the G5 rather than the G4.

If that's the case, then some of the opinions that the G5=Apollo are actually half true. They decided to move the .13 process over to the G5, saving more of the good stuff for that chip.

That might also explain why some of the Mhz predictions for Apollo aren't as high as expected. That MacWorld UK interview with someone at Motorola said the G4 would top out around 1Ghz. That number should be higher if they're using the smaller manufacturing process.

Sounds to me like the Apollo will not be a laptop chip after all. Unless that .18 number is an error, that is.
post #14 of 53
[quote]Originally posted by AppleCello:
<strong>Maybe steve wanted this leaked out, or announced as it were, so calm the mad speculation on the g5s that they cant deliver on for mwsf.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I would not doubt that leaking this was an Apple idea. . <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

It's better to leak something of the truth than get boo'd at a keynote because of someone's line of BS in a chat room, or just false rumor spreading is a totaly inacurate, and an unobtainable goal to meet in the real world.

I said it the first time I read it. "It (G5's coming soon) looks a BS story to me". Why anybody would believe that to begin with is still puzzling to me. I thought everybody knew that Apolo was the next fabm coming from Motorola for us.

It's still going to be an awesome MacWorld. I love new product announcements.
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post #15 of 53
I really thought the G4 Apollo would be manufactured using HiP7(0.13 AND SOI).....bummer.

After all they've been using this process since April, manufacturing cores to embedded processors, @ least that is what this press release states.

<a href="http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=mot&script=411&layout=-6&item_id=164832" target="_blank">http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=mot&script=411&layout=-6&item_id=164832</a>
"Motorola is currently running embedded microprocessor cores on this advanced 0.13 micron process. Production is expected to begin in second quarter of this year in MOS13, Motorola's most advanced 8-inch facility in Austin, Texas. With the completion of this new process, Motorola continues to be an industry leader in copper process capabilities, building on the successes of two previous generations."

Well @ least I can hope for DDRsdram. Oh great googly moogly
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post #16 of 53
Here is my take on the reasoning behind this story. I highly doubt that Steve is all over Motorola. I believe Steve was directly involved in this. Apple took a beating in the press and by the mac faithful after MWNY...a SEVERE beating. Why? So many rumors and expectations were way too high. The G5 may not be ready and this is Apple's indirect way of cooling rumors a little that have a negative effect on the show. The iMac rumors are probably welcomes by Apple, the create excitement for the brand and they create excitement on the trading floor. Just look at the pre-Seybold press release. No new hardware...direct from Steve Jobs. They learned from the MWNY debacle and are trying to keep it from happening again.
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post #17 of 53
I'm starting to think it was a typo and they meant to say .13. It would be odd that they would make all that effort just to go to SOI.
post #18 of 53
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>I'm starting to think it was a typo and they meant to say .13. It would be odd that they would make all that effort just to go to SOI.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It has to be a typo. Isn''t it? . I thought my 867 was on a .015, or whatever.
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post #19 of 53
After reading it, I had the same thought regarding the .18µ SOI thing (typo)...MacCentral has been known to jumble their facts and numbers from time to time. Anyone who understands the hardware issues care to email them and ask them to double-check? They've printed corrections many times before....

Also, just so I understand...does a chip made from the more advanced process result in a cooler chip? Or am I getting my facts mixed up too? I don't keep track of this stuff too closely as it results in brain-cramps every six months or so after the MW Expos don't pan out accordingly.


Hey Rickag...can I use "oh great googly moogly" as my signature?

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post #20 of 53
great googly moogly isn't mine. I stole it from a commercial(and it isn't part of my signature)
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Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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post #21 of 53
[quote]Originally posted by Slacker:
<strong>Ahhh. All the naysayers of doom and gloom. I'm willing to bet 64MB RAM on GHz mac at the expo....Any takers?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I have a 64 MB iBook chip that I'm not using. Um, I don't know why I said that. I'm not giving it to you.
post #22 of 53
[quote]Originally posted by rickag:
<strong>great googly moogly isn't mine. I stole it from a commercial....</strong><hr></blockquote>

What product was being advertised? Chili Cheese Dogs or something like that?

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post #23 of 53
[quote]Originally posted by rickag:
<strong>great googly moogly isn't mine. I stole it from a commercial(and it isn't part of my signature)</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's from a Snickers commercial where a guy is painthing "CHIEFS" on the football field and actually misspelled it "CHEFS" and he says "great googly moogly" under his breath to show his disappoinment.
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post #24 of 53
[quote]Originally posted by Moogs ™:
<strong>

What product was being advertised? Chili Cheese Dogs or something like that?

</strong><hr></blockquote>

it was an add for snickers... the guy spelled "chiefs" as "chefs" on a football field.
----now thats funny-----
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post #25 of 53
No the specs the MacCentral article talks about are the exact same specs that were talked about this chip over a year ago. Everybody talked about it. CNN, MacCentral, Cnet, hell even Appleinsider talked about this exact chip - with the exact same specs as mentioned - as being the chip to be used in a Quad 1 GHZ machine.

The only thing I can think about is that either the G4 had gone ahead to 1 GHZ (to 1.4) and this chip is being called the G5, or that this will be used for the Powerbook. It is interesting to note that many web sites had called this chip "Goldfish" and that is exactly what the register mole called the G5.

My thinking is that the Apollo G4 will be available as a dual (or dull) 1 GHZ machine and that is it. The G5 will be seen next summer.
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post #26 of 53
haha, beat ya mike
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post #27 of 53
[quote]Originally posted by anand:
<strong>No the specs the MacCentral article talks about are the exact same specs that were talked about this chip over a year ago.</strong><hr></blockquote>Oops, that's right. I went back and checked some of the stories from last year.

Here's one: <a href="http://macweek.macworld.com/2000/10/08/1010apollo.html" target="_blank">http://macweek.macworld.com/2000/10/08/1010apollo.html</A>

And another: <a href="http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-3154333.html?tag=rltdnws" target="_blank">http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-3154333.html?tag=rltdnws</A>

Funny, because I could swear that the talk since that time has been that the Apollo would have a smaller process. I wonder if we've been confusing the Apollo with the G5, not Apple or Motorola.

It seems that Apollo is the chance to use SOI, and the G5 will be the first with .13 and SOI.
post #28 of 53
The fact that this was announced by Mot means for a 100% certainty that there WILL NOT be a true G5 in the near future. Sorry, but that's they way it's gonna be!

Anyone wanna bet?

MWSF will be lackluster just like all of the MWs of memory. Face it, they're not going to announce both new iMacs (LCD... doubt it) AND new towers, both at over 1Ghz. Might as well throw in OSX 10.5, a new 20GB iPod, iPhoto and whatever you can come up with in DreamLand.

Get ready for another disappointment... it's just the way it is gonna be.

BTW, isn't January the worst time one could possibly think of to announce new products? All the cool new stuff should be out for X-mas, or in the Summer for back to school.
post #29 of 53
Now I am starting to think there may be a G5. I mean if the G4 is now only at 1 GHZ whats the big deal? Up from 867 is not that much. However, if moto did something great with SOI and it is now close to 1.4 GHZ than that is something great. Alright, the true G5 shounds great but this might not be all that bad.

However, if people were just confusing the Apollo G4 (1.4 ghz) with a G5 than what is up with those Fspec numbers and such. I mean those were out of this world.
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post #30 of 53
[quote]quote from maccentral article:
During the 2000 Microprocessor Forum presentation, Bearden said that the Apollo processor would have a seven stage pipeline, four AltiVec execution units, a 256-bit internal memory subsystem, a 256KB on-chip L2 cache, and support for an up to 2MB off-chip L3 cache. Apollo's memory subsystem will support 36-bit memory addressing -- allowing up to 64GB of physically addressable memory. Finally, Apollo will support either a 60x system bus or an MPX system bus. <hr></blockquote>

Would anyone mind explaining something, I know that we have known the specs on this chip for some time, but there is something I don't understand...

- Four AltiVec execution units?

Doesn't the current G4 only have 1?

Sorry if this is a stupid question
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post #31 of 53
Ok, someone answer me this. When the first G4 was announced at Seybold back in '99, when diid Motorola "pre-announce" the production of this chip (or did they?)

Just wondering,
Chas
post #32 of 53
I don't know if anyone touched on this (I quickly scanned this thread) but doesn't Motorola "Fib" on their process size? If I'm not mistaken they use a differnet scheme than IBM, Intel, etc... I'm too lazy to verify, but I'm pretty sure what they call a .13 is different than what IBM calls a .13.
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post #33 of 53
[quote]Originally posted by Mike D:
<strong>

it was an add for snickers... the guy spelled "chiefs" as "chefs" on a football field.
----now thats funny-----</strong><hr></blockquote>


Yep...now that you guys mention it I remember it well. Good ad. To the signature field I go! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
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post #34 of 53
Damn, no G5.

This is undoubtedly Apple's way of debunking the G5 rumors. I was waiting for a denial and this is it.


So we'll get 1 GHz tops, and have to wait until MWNY to get a G5. By this time the Pentium 4 is expected to be at 2.8 GHz.

So nothing's changed. Motorola is still giving Apple chips that run at about half the clockspeed of those in Wintels. Apple just barely keeps up in performance, on altivec tasks, and they continue to get hammered on anything that doesn't use altivec.

I'm sick of this shit. The G5 should have been out by now--WTF is Motorola doing wasting their time on the Apollo? They should have ditched it and dumped the R&D into the G5. Bastards.
post #35 of 53
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>I'm sick of this shit. The G5 should have been out by now--WTF is Motorola doing wasting their time on the Apollo? They should have ditched it and dumped the R&D into the G5. Bastards.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hehe, funny to see some people haven't changed a bit during the time the boards were closed

Bye,
RazzFazz
post #36 of 53
This is getting really really tiring and just plain frustrating. The whole rumor 'problem' is not the fault of the rumor mills. Its Apple and Motorola. If they could possibly deliver what people want, and what is now industry standard there would be no 'rumor problem.' This is embarrasing, disgusting, frustrating, and just plain stupid. If Apple doesnt bust out a G5 or a suped up G4 at MWSF that is at least 1.2-1.4, then whoever the fudge packer is thats in charge of Motorola need to resign. And give the reigns to someone who can get the job done and give the people what they want god damnit. Or if Steve Jobs dosnt have the resolve to handle Motorola himself purhaps someone more suited for the job should replace him, and set the old egotistical goat out to pasture.

I for one would hate to see all the great things going on in the Mac world drivin into the ground because of a suppliers inability to stay current and or ahead on industry trends. It would be a crime against all those that have worked so hard to bring the Mac back to strength.

[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: Falcon ]</p>
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post #37 of 53
[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>haha, beat ya mike </strong><hr></blockquote>

aww nuts
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post #38 of 53
There are two reasons why Moto realized the information about the Apollo. One is that now everyone might think the G5 isn't going to come up in january so everyone won't give the expo a bad review or it will make the G5 more of a surprise when it comes out in january.

But i'm going with the first point, apple let them release the apollo info because they knew the G5 won't be ready in time, but the good news is they say its speed is 1ghz+.
post #39 of 53
I agree that i know am almost sure the g5 won't come out but always like to have hope becasue I believe apple needs the g5 to catch up. A few words of the article give some hope but i don't know if its maccentrals words or motorolas.
"The MPC 8540 is one of the first G5 products to be announced and will be sampling in the first half of 2002." i think that is a quote. It says one of the first g5 products. now like others have pointed out Mot has waited for Apple to intro new machines before they do. Just a glimmer of hope but probably nothing. These might be carefully chosen words but i bet it jsut happend to come out that way. They could of very well said, "the first g5 processor." Well At least we will be beyond 1ghs on the pro machines.
post #40 of 53
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>Damn, no G5.
So we'll get 1 GHz tops, and have to wait until MWNY to get a G5. By this time the Pentium 4 is expected to be at 2.8 GHz.
.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The G4's announced at MWSF '02 will top out at 1.2 ghz according to my "source".
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