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Apple's new MacBook Airs to bring back backlit keyboards - sources - Page 2

post #41 of 83
7/12/11 at 7:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Was a stupid move to remove it anyway. Yet a good portion of the people here on these boards backed the move

Now those same people will probably be praising the move to bring it back

I don't recall anyone 'backing it'. Some people rationalized it, mostly suggesting it was cost related, but thats hardly backing it.
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post #42 of 83
7/12/11 at 7:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

But given that Apple just began accepting applications for Lion to the Mac App Store a few hours ago, that may suddenly seem ambitious.

What a strange thing to say, as though all of the applications we have today will suddenly break.
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post #43 of 83
7/12/11 at 7:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

I don't recall anyone 'backing it'. Some people rationalized it, mostly suggesting it was cost related, but thats hardly backing it.

I don't know, anyone that "rationalizes" removing such a useful feature in a "premium" notebook is an enemy in my books
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post #44 of 83
7/12/11 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Well, since nobody mentioned it, how about a retina display in the MacBook Air?

MacOS X and all of the apps do not have support for a retina display. And with Macs being able to display many resolutions, true resolution independence would be much preferred to a retina display.
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post #45 of 83
7/12/11 at 7:36am
I suppose a back-lit keyboard might be nice, if you could actually control it. The one on my 15" MBP will only come on when it wants to, and it never seems to think its quite as dark as my eyes do...
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post #46 of 83
7/12/11 at 7:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

If you put an SSD in a recent 17" MBP, it's going to blow the MBA away.

That's equally true for the 15" and 17" MacBook Pro models.
Mac user since August 1983.
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post #47 of 83
7/12/11 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvd404 View Post

I dont know what you are smoking Messiah, but it sure is messing with your head!
Try doing some research and you could be amazed. Personally, I have a 240GB OWC SSD installed in my 2.3GHz i7 17" MBP which utterly destroys my maxed out 2.13 GHz 13" MBA. The MBA is awesome for light work, but when I'm earning money, I need the computational power of the quad core i7, and the speed of the OWC SSD (which is significantly faster than the SSD of the MBA). Check out barefeats.com and macsales.com (and OWC ship internationally too as I live in Australia).

Quote:
Originally Posted by s4mb4 View Post

agreed. I too have the 2 same machines as well as an i5 quad core 27" iMac.
The MBP with an SSD smokes them all. and not by a small margin either.

The OP makes the point that the MBA has great performance due to its SSD, even compared to a MBP with a standard HD , and you respond that no, a MBP with an SSD installed is faster. Am I missing something?
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post #48 of 83
7/12/11 at 7:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

You can do either. There are two modes for using two or more monitors:

1. Mirroring
2. Extended Desktop

Mirroring, as the name suggests, show exactly the same image on the two monitors at the same time - so whichever screen has the lowest resolution is the limiting factor. This mode tends to be useful for presentations and the like.

With the extended desktop mode, each monitor operates at its native resolution and shows different content - you designate a certain monitor to be your "main" monitor (with a laptop the main monitor can be the built-in monitor or the external one) and that shows the Menu Bar and Dock, and you can drag windows from one display to another.

That is we get a third option where the external monitor is used at its native resolution but where the GUI is drawn consistently.
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post #49 of 83
7/12/11 at 7:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Well, since nobody mentioned it, how about a retina display in the MacBook Air?

HiDPI, which is built into Lion, is exactly what I want from all new Macs.
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post #50 of 83
7/12/11 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondgeeza View Post

eh? I replaced my 15" MBP with an air as my main work machine and have never looked back (mostly science apps and office type stuff). Slowly handle the basics of the UI? eh?

Use an AIR for a week and then an tricked out MBP for a week, then go backmto the AIR one more time. You will find that the AIR can be a performance dog. Sure it opens doles quick but a MBP can do it even quicker with a high speed SSD. That isnt what we are talking about here though.
Quote:
You must have been looking at some beat up airs, the flash more than makes up for the slower processors in most office applications, in fact it batters my old MBP in these apps.

A common belief from those with low expectations or minimal demands on the system.
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Sure if you are in video or audio editing or computational modelling buy a MBP, or actually a desktop. which I have at home for that and can access over wifi etc.

That is another common mistake. All you need to do on an AIR to turn it into a dogg is tom try to do multiple things at a time. You know as is expected of a computer built upon UNIX. I'm not saying AIR isn't suitable for many users, just that it is a low end machine performance wise. In my case it is the size of the SSD that keeps me away currently, but I'd certainly would love to see a few performance issues addressed.
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post #51 of 83
7/12/11 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

This is great news. It's hard to see many people choosing the 13" MBP over the 13" MBA now.


Of course there is still the issue of max RAM and disk size....
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post #52 of 83
7/12/11 at 8:01am
Off topic: I've been in 2 more Apple Stores in different states and each has a full table of 4 or 5 white MacBooks right at the door when you walk in. I don't recall Apple ever putting their soon to be deprecated HW so prominently by the door nor do I see a good reason to do so unless you are trying to drop inventory, which usually comes with a price drop, which then means the product is popular, hence the placement near the door.
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post #53 of 83
7/12/11 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

MacOS X and all of the apps do not have support for a retina display. And with Macs being able to display many resolutions, true resolution independence would be much preferred to a retina display.

1) According to one of the WWDC 2011 sessions Lion has RI.

2) I think the term HiDPI is more accurate than Retina Display in this instance.
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post #54 of 83
7/12/11 at 8:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I don't know, anyone that "rationalizes" removing such a useful feature in a "premium" notebook is an enemy in my books

I turned the feature OFF on my MBP. It is very distracting and you don't need it to type.
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post #55 of 83
7/12/11 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

MacOS X and all of the apps do not have support for a retina display. And with Macs being able to display many resolutions, true resolution independence would be much preferred to a retina display.

If we don't get resolution independence it will be a sign that Apple has lost it. Even so higher resolution screens would be very welcomed. V
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post #56 of 83
7/12/11 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

If we don't get resolution independence it will be a sign that Apple has lost it. Even so higher resolution screens would be very welcomed. V

I already mentioned in another thread to you that WWDC 2011 Session 113 at 47m47s, if memory serves, goes into detail about Lion's full RI and HiDPI display support.
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post #57 of 83
7/12/11 at 8:27am
I squawked a number of times to Apple and everywhere else I could find to post about bringing back the backlit keyboard. Is an important feature for my needs, though do-able without of course. I am impressed with Apple more each day.
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post #58 of 83
7/12/11 at 8:28am
Based on this news, I'd say that Lion will be released on Friday, and the new Air's (plus either MacPro's, Mini's, or w/e) will be updated on Tuesday.
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post #59 of 83
7/12/11 at 8:29am
I squawked everywhere I could find, including Apple, about bringing back the lit keyboard. Is an important feature for my needs. Needed...no, but sure nice. Any laptop in this price range should have this feature. Thanks Apple. You impress me more each day.
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post #60 of 83
7/12/11 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

You can do either. There are two modes for using two or more monitors:

1. Mirroring
2. Extended Desktop

Mirroring, as the name suggests, show exactly the same image on the two monitors at the same time - so whichever screen has the lowest resolution is the limiting factor. This mode tends to be useful for presentations and the like.

With the extended desktop mode, each monitor operates at its native resolution and shows different content - you designate a certain monitor to be your "main" monitor (with a laptop the main monitor can be the built-in monitor or the external one) and that shows the Menu Bar and Dock, and you can drag windows from one display to another.

Actually there are 3 modes. The two you mentioned and a third, which is the best IMO. Connect your Macbook to your monitor and close it then use a mouse to wake it up (can be bluetooth or wired) and MacOSX shows up nativity on the screen just like a desktop. Not sure how Mr. H could forget this...


Edit: I'm new here and don't know how to quote the original post
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post #61 of 83
7/12/11 at 8:46am
It is indeed great news if the backlit keyboard returns but my only consideration right now in buying a new computer is if it has 6-8GB of RAM. 4GB simply doesn't cut it for my every day usage. With 6, I'll buy. With 8, I'll be thrilled. If the new Air still maxes out at 4GB, I'll suffer with my 4 year old laptop and its 4GB limit until the next Air release. *fingers crossed*
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post #62 of 83
7/12/11 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Sounds like a little exaggeration. If you put an SSD in a recent 17" MBP, it's going to blow the MBA away. You're probably comparing the MBA's SSD to the MBP's conventional hard disk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

That's equally true for the 15" and 17" MacBook Pro models.

Oh yes, off course.

That said, good luck trying to get a third party SATA3 SSD to work in the Early 2011 MacBook Pros!
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post #63 of 83
7/12/11 at 9:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by smack416 View Post

It is indeed great news if the backlit keyboard returns but my only consideration right now in buying a new computer is if it has 6-8GB of RAM. 4GB simply doesn't cut it for my every day usage. With 6, I'll buy. With 8, I'll be thrilled. If the new Air still maxes out at 4GB, I'll suffer with my 4 year old laptop and its 4GB limit until the next Air release. *fingers crossed*

I'd agree, my brand new MacBook Pro with 4GB of RAM does struggle a bit, but my MacBook Air with 2GB doesn't.

Again, I'll go back to my theory that 2GB of RAM swapping out to a SSD is faster than 4/8GB swapping out to an HDD. And I think that nowadays most users demands will probably cause an 8GB machine to swap out.

I think there's a lot to be said for buying a second hand machine and installing a SSD, than buying a new machine with an HDD installed...

...just my theory!
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post #64 of 83
7/12/11 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

The MBP has a better chance of running OSX.

The Airs I've looked at in the Apple Store could barely (ie slowly) handle the basics of the UI.

I'll take another look after this refresh and see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondgeeza View Post

eh? I replaced my 15" MBP with an air as my main work machine and have never looked back (mostly science apps and office type stuff). Slowly handle the basics of the UI? eh? You must have been looking at some beat up airs...

I thought crack was illegal. Even an iPad could run regular OS X.
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post #65 of 83
7/12/11 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Was a stupid move to remove it anyway. Yet a good portion of the people here on these boards backed the move

Now those same people will probably be praising the move to bring it back

I don't recall reading a single person "backing the [re]move" of the backlit keyboard. I do remember plenty of rational people saying that it's not a deal breaker feature even though they wished it was included and/or those wondering if perhaps there was an engineering reason that prevented Apple from including the backlighting HW in this new svelte design for a multitude of possible reasons from engineering limitations to cost. Why do those sound so unreasonable to you?
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post #66 of 83
7/12/11 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Was a stupid move to remove it anyway. Yet a good portion of the people here on these boards backed the move

Now those same people will probably be praising the move to bring it back

That's why it's called a ''back light'.
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post #67 of 83
7/12/11 at 10:57am
Apple replace a feature they should never have removed. Huzzah!! let's buy it al over again.

Fuck me.
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post #68 of 83
7/12/11 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

Great. Bring also the matte display option. And a lighter and smaller model as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cy_starkman View Post

Backlit, thunderbolt, ssd, some sandybridge love and dare we hope.. a matte screen.

Man, that would be beastly.

I'd just about sell my 17" mbpro and swap to one of these hooked to a desktop monitor and an external raid. Hmmmm

Can't you just stick a $10 matte film on your display? It's not noticeable once it's on there.
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post #69 of 83
7/12/11 at 11:13am
What about the Apple Remote sensor? Doesn't any body else use it anymore? I'm dying to get this feature back because I use my 11" Air to present work everyday.
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post #70 of 83
7/12/11 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

The MBP has a better chance of running OSX.

The Airs I've looked at in the Apple Store could barely (ie slowly) handle the basics of the UI.

I'll take another look after this refresh and see.

Just how long has it been since you looked at an MBA, anyway?

This 13" 4GB RAM, 256GB SSD MBA keeps up with the UI just fine; it's not as fast as the 3.06GHz iMac with 8GB RAM in the other room, but it's quicker booting up and starting applications.

It works fine with Aperture 3 and FCPX, with expected limitations running the latter as it's not connected to a RAID1 drive through FW800. It's certainly faster than the 2008 15" MBP that it replaced earlier this year.
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post #71 of 83
7/12/11 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Sounds like a little exaggeration. If you put an SSD in a recent 17" MBP, it's going to blow the MBA away. You're probably comparing the MBA's SSD to the MBP's conventional hard disk.

I don't think that was shown to be the case. I think the MBA's SSD card has shown to be considerably more efficient either in HW or driver design than 2.5" SSDs for other Macs even though the MBA uses considerably slower HW in other areas. I think the MBAs boot in 10 seconds, can come back from hibernation in under 1 second. If that's the case I'd bet many app launches are faster on the MBA, too, providing it's about read speeds not about processing after the app loads in order to make it usable.
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post #72 of 83
7/12/11 at 12:01pm
The lack of a backlit keyboard was the dealkiller when I was considering purchasing a MacBook Air. Figured I could get used to most of the other limitations, in exchange for the lighter weight, but I couldn't do without the lit keyboard. Am hoping they will also address some of the other limitations that keep the Air from being totally functional as a work machine, so that the next time I'm in the market it will be an easier decision.
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post #73 of 83
7/12/11 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiah View Post

Oh yes, off course.

That said, good luck trying to get a third party SATA3 SSD to work in the Early 2011 MacBook Pros!

I think I finally picked up on you point about the 4th time I read this. You are saying the SATA3 interface is the problem, not getting a high performance SSD installed and working beautifully in a MBP right? I'm seriously contemplating getting an OWC SSD for our new MBP along with an 8GB memory upgrade. I'm operating on the assumption that this would make for an absolutely ridiculously fast laptop.

Now, this system might not be quite as fast as an SATA3 SSD system, but I think at that point it's really going to be splitting hairs. I mean is anyone really going to notice the difference between an SATA2 SSD and a SATA3 SSD? Especially after coming from a 5400 RPM HD...
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post #74 of 83
7/12/11 at 12:22pm
Mba 3g?
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post #75 of 83
7/12/11 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by svnipp View Post

I think I finally picked up on you point about the 4th time I read this. You are saying the SATA3 interface is the problem, not getting a high performance SSD installed and working beautifully in a MBP right? I'm seriously contemplating getting an OWC SSD for our new MBP along with an 8GB memory upgrade. I'm operating on the assumption that this would make for an absolutely ridiculously fast laptop.

Now, this system might not be quite as fast as an SATA3 SSD system, but I think at that point it's really going to be splitting hairs. I mean is anyone really going to notice the difference between an SATA2 SSD and a SATA3 SSD? Especially after coming from a 5400 RPM HD...

SSD is definitely the way to go!
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post #76 of 83
7/12/11 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jshez View Post

Mba 3g?

I've often thought that.

3G would make a lot of sense in a MBA.
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post #77 of 83
7/12/11 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiah View Post

I've often thought that.

3G would make a lot of sense in a MBA.

I've posted the pics several times already so I'll spare doing them again, but if you look at the iPad 2 pics on iFixit, the CDMA/CDMA2000 and GSM/UMTS boards are small daughter boards that appear to be the same size. This standardization could work very well for a crossover to Mac portables.

Also note the evidence of Find My Mac strings in Lion yet this feature is still not yet active on any Mac or MobileMe/iCloud which makes me think it will be a part of new Macs with GPS chips, which might come as a component on cellular daughter boards.
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post #78 of 83
7/12/11 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

You can do either. There are two modes for using two or more monitors:

1. Mirroring
2. Extended Desktop

Mirroring, as the name suggests, show exactly the same image on the two monitors at the same time - so whichever screen has the lowest resolution is the limiting factor. This mode tends to be useful for presentations and the like.

With the extended desktop mode, each monitor operates at its native resolution and shows different content - you designate a certain monitor to be your "main" monitor (with a laptop the main monitor can be the built-in monitor or the external one) and that shows the Menu Bar and Dock, and you can drag windows from one display to another.

I was also wondering about it - thanks for the clear explanation.
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post #79 of 83
7/13/11 at 4:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakevin. View Post

Nothing. They're different lines and completely different products though they both happen to be 13". More people may opt for MBA's over MBP's but that's to do with consumer demand and interest, and not obsolescence.

That is good new the product will not be dropped that fast. Thanks
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post #80 of 83
7/13/11 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvd404 View Post

I dont know what you are smoking Messiah, but it sure is messing with your head!
Try doing some research and you could be amazed. Personally, I have a 240GB OWC SSD installed in my 2.3GHz i7 17" MBP which utterly destroys my maxed out 2.13 GHz 13" MBA. The MBA is awesome for light work, but when I'm earning money, I need the computational power of the quad core i7, and the speed of the OWC SSD (which is significantly faster than the SSD of the MBA). Check out barefeats.com and macsales.com (and OWC ship internationally too as I live in Australia).

Sorry, I don't think I've been clear in my original post. I have both machines, and I'm comparing the MBA 11" SSD to the MBP 17" with a 5400rpm HDD.

My argument is that the MBA with its SSD is faster than the 17" with its HDD for the vast majority of CS5 stuff that I work on. Apart from a few Photoshop filters, multiple cores are neither here nor there with CS5 as it can't take advantage of them.

Hence my original reply to the forum member who was considering replacing his 17" MBP with a MBA it is viable.

Obviously a 17" MBP with an SSD will be faster still. I tried installing a C300 in my 17", and it was VERY FAST when it worked briefly. But for the time being at least, it doesn't seem possible to install a reliable third party SATA3 SSD.

Does your OWC SSD ever beachball? Did you have to replace the SATA3 cable, or wrap it in tin foil? If not, I'd be interested in buying one...
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