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Microsoft CEO pans Apple's Mac sales, admits 'very small' Windows Phone sales

post #1 of 170
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Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer this week boasted that sales of Windows PCs continue to vastly outperform the Mac, but also conceded that his company's mobile phone business has not done much to improve its market share.

Ballmer's comments came at Microsoft's Worldwide Partner Conference 2011, with the keynote delivered on Tuesday in Los Angeles, Calif. A transcript of the speech is available from Microsoft.

In the address, Ballmer highlighted sales of 350 million Windows-based PCs in the last year, and used the number to criticize Apple without referring to the company by name.

"We've got a lot of competition in the Windows business," Ballmer said. "But we're driving hard with just in the last year alone 350 million -- 350 million -- new PCs sold. That might compare with numbers from other guys that are in the 20 million range. Now, 20 is too much, but 350, last time I checked, is a lot more than 20."

In the last four quarters, Apple has reported sales of 15.22 million Macs. Those sales crossed the 4 million milestone for the first time in holiday 2010, reaching 4.1 million.

Ballmer's only mention of any apple in his keynote came in reference to the fruit, when he made a joke about the next version of Windows Phone, codenamed "Mango."

"Now Mango, to most people in the room, is a fruit," he said. "I like it better than apple, personally."

When talking about the revamped Windows Phone 7 platform, which launched late last year to lukewarm reviews, Ballmer admitted that Microsoft's presence in the market remains tiny.

"Phones, we've gone from very small to very small, but it's been a heck of a year," Ballmer said, earning laughter from the crowd. "And you're going to see a lot of progress in that market competitively as we move forward."



Unlike with Windows on the desktop, Ballmer also declined to give any specific sales figures for Windows Phone, instead saying that Microsoft has sold "millions of phones" in the last year. But the CEO said his company has high hopes for the Windows Phone platform going forward, with more than 20,000 applications available for the platform and positive responses from users.

He also highlighted predictions made earlier this year by Gartner and IDC, which forecast that Windows Phone will be the No. 2 platform on the mobile market by 2015. And he highlighted his company's partnership with Nokia, in which the Finnish handset maker will adopt the Windows Phone platform and abandon its own Symbian mobile operating system.

"We know we've got a lot to do, but like the cloud, like NT many years back, we're all in when it comes to mobile devices," Ballmer said in closing. "And whether it's phones, or slates, or PCs, or console devices, we're certainly pushing extremely far, and extremely fast."
post #2 of 170
It's like comparing Apples to Oranges, one Company sells well designed products at a premium price while other sells products to the masses at discount prices. It's like comparing Kia's to Mercedes Benz, one sets the standards while the other is denying the others quality. Let's stop arguing and just acknowledge that they're doing things differently. Let's just try to remember how respectful Steve and Bill were at that event a couple years ago.
post #3 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"We've got a lot of competition in the Windows business," Ballmer said. "But we're driving hard with just in the last year alone 350 million -- 350 million -- new PCs sold. That might compare with numbers from other guys that are in the 20 million range. Now, 20 is too much, but 350, last time I checked, is a lot more than 20."

"Objects in mirror may be close than they appear"

Ballmer should perhaps spend less time looking in the rearview mirror at the rapidly approaching Applemobile and more time paying attention to where he is going. He keeps driving his car into the ditch.
post #4 of 170
Give it up Ballmer. Apple is no longer interested in overtaking the Windows marketshare and hasn't thought about that in some time. Go ahead and take your 350 million windows PCs and do what you do with them. I'll take profits, quality and design any day over race to the bottom pricing for computers.

Mangos are a lot messier than apples to deal with.
post #5 of 170
Congratulations Ballmer.

Windows sales are greater than the Mac. Been like that since Windows 3.1.

The guy is hung up on desktop Windows (and Office) and that really is Gates legacy.

MS has done about nothing (of any real significance) under Ballmer with exception of maybe the XBOX 360.
post #6 of 170
Somebody really needs to explain to Ballmer that when you only have 1% of the US handset market, you might want to avoid chest thumping about market-share.
post #7 of 170
$400 products are outselling $1000+ products. What tcphoto said was true...this doesnt matter. People who can afford macs get macs, people who can't don't...and so you see a huge market share for windows. If you look at a mac density and average pay in america maps next to eachother, they're identical and thats why this doesnt matter at all. And infact, you can see this trend in most markets. Android appears to be outselling ios because its cheap. and, of course, kias are outselling bemmers.

all apple needs to do is come out with a laptop priced the same as its mac mini. That would get innovation satarting from microsoft as 45% of all computers sold are apple. And it wouldn't hurt their brand name cause they already have a cheap computer. Ballmer is a joke of a ceo anyways...he's like a 12 year old kid mocking apple in computer class while he's running a company that hardle even competes with apple
post #8 of 170
What a tard this guy is. He should be removed immediately. Every time he opens his mouth, he's blasting Apple and making excuses for Microsoft's failures. Apple's growth--particularly in this economy--is unreal. The more they succeed, the more Ballmer goes monkey boy-batshit crazy.

What's weird is it doesn't make sense. Ballmer is right...Windows PCs outsell Macs more than 10 to 1. Yes, Apple is kicking ass in the mobile segment. But why even go after "the other guys" like that? It's got to be some sort of psychological disorder. Otherwise you'd think Ballmer would lead M$ in a direction that compliments Apple's market rather than competes with it. M$ should focus on its core business...Windows PCs, Office, Exchange and the Xbox division. They should embrace the Mac success, expanding their Mac Business Unit. You want to offer a Windows phone OS? Fine...go for it. But focus on making apps for the already dominant market players...iOS and Android. M$ can easily have a symbiant relationship with Apple. They certainly don't need monkey boy up there constantly bashing Apple.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #9 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"We've got a lot of competition in the Windows business," Ballmer said. "But we're driving hard with just in the last year alone 350 million -- 350 million -- new PCs sold. That might compare with numbers from other guys that are in the 20 million range. Now, 20 is too much, but 350, last time I checked, is a lot more than 20."

And, bottom line, Apple's market cap is significantly higher than Microsoft's.

End of discussion.

Ballmer is an embarrassment.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #10 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"We've got a lot of competition in the Windows business," Ballmer said. "But we're driving hard with just in the last year alone 350 million -- 350 million -- new PCs sold. That might compare with numbers from other guys that are in the 20 million range. Now, 20 is too much, but 350, last time I checked, is a lot more than 20."
.
.
In the last four quarters, Apple has reported sales of 15.22 million Macs. Those sales crossed the 4 million milestone for the first time in holiday 2010, reaching 4.1 million.

Hum, excuse me Ballmer, but who's making all the profits???
post #11 of 170
And..... that's why Microsoft is dying. Sorry but Google took your place long time ago.
Apple had me at scrolling
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Apple had me at scrolling
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post #12 of 170
I'd like to see consumer and business sales broken out...I think apple is huge w/ consumers...not so huge w/ business. Businesses are locked into MS.
post #13 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

But why even go after "the other guys" like that? It's got to be some sort of psychological disorder. Otherwise you'd think Ballmer would lead M$ in a direction that compliments Apple's market rather than competes with it. M$ should focus on its core business...Windows PCs, Office, Exchange and the Xbox division. They should embrace the Mac success, expanding their Mac Business Unit. You want to offer a Windows phone OS? Fine...go for it. But focus on making apps for the already dominant market players...iOS and Android. M$ can easily have a symbiant relationship with Apple. They certainly don't need monkey boy up there constantly bashing Apple.

The problem MS has is that it's huge and businesses like Apps for iOS just wouldn't materially affect its bottom line, in the way that say 100mil WP7 phones a year would if it could only get people to buy them. The desktop is stagnant, and all the trends are against windows there. The rise of China. The rise of thin-clients. The rise of notebooks as primary computers. Notebooks are a little better, but there we see windows losing out to linux/chrome powered netbooks at one end, and MBP/MBAs at the other - and Tablets may end up eating a big chunk of that market.

Productivity software? Increasingly people find that google docs or iWork is enough, very few people really need the pivot table power of Excel or the monstrosity that is Word. Lets not even talk about Powerpoint.

MS can only choose between fighting on Apple or Google's turf, or becoming a stagnant 'cash-cow', that slowly dwindles into irrelevancy.
post #14 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

"Objects in mirror may be close than they appear"

Ballmer should perhaps spend less time looking in the rearview mirror at the rapidly approaching Applemobile and more time paying attention to where he is going. He keeps driving his car into the ditch.

Especially if your foot is to the floor and you're in reverse.
post #15 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooman625 View Post

all apple needs to do is come out with a laptop priced the same as its mac mini.

This subject has been beaten to a pulp. You must be new here.

It's called an iPad. Buy it with an external keyboard if you want a netbook. Apple will not come out with low priced junk for the sake of markets share. That's not how operate.

There's also the 11" Macbook Air. Considering how hard a time Apple has keeping them in stock, they are selling pretty well.

Just look at the performance of the other low-cost PC makers to get an idea of why Apple isn't entering the bottom-of-barrel club.
post #16 of 170
I hope Microsoft gain on that creepy Google company in the handset market.

Dear Microsoft -know your enemy - it's NOT Apple!
post #17 of 170
I think the previous poster put it properly: Profits are where it's at.
post #18 of 170
Steve Jobs conceded defeat in the "PC wars" 14 years ago. Ballmer still thinks it's the first or second inning. That said, Mac sales are growing at a rabid pace, and every time somebody buys their first mac, that's one less sale for MS.
post #19 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

And, bottom line, Apple's market cap is significantly higher than Microsoft's.

End of discussion.

Ballmer is an embarrassment.

More importantly, Apple's revenue has surpassed Microsoft's on a quarterly basis. And in recent quarter, even Apple's net profit is greater than Microsoft's.
post #20 of 170
The difference between market share, mind share and profit share. Because when it comes to desktops, they are only winning on the first, which has lead to his utter failure in all three in mobile.
post #21 of 170
Every year the same cluelessness.

May Ballmer remain CEO of MS for as long as it takes.

I wonder what Gates thinks of all this, while we're witnessing Ballmer drive the company into the ground.

Maybe he should hire Jon Rubenstein. That way the process can be accelerated.

(How someone can so thoroughly kill WebOS is beyond me. But give something great to an also-ran box-maker and the results are predictable.)
post #22 of 170
Does Microsoft sell PC's?

Last time I checked it makes the OS that runs on the PC.

I think it will be intresteing to see how many people decide to use the WebOS HP will be offering on PC not Windows. That is a lot more significant.




Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

Steve Jobs conceded defeat in the "PC wars" 14 years ago. Ballmer still thinks it's the first or second inning. That said, Mac sales are growing at a rabid pace, and every time somebody buys their first mac, that's one less sale for MS.

Originally Posted by Rickers - 2014

Cook & Co will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost for so long.  Steve == Apple and Apple == Steve.  

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Originally Posted by Rickers - 2014

Cook & Co will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost for so long.  Steve == Apple and Apple == Steve.  

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post #23 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

This subject has been beaten to a pulp. You must be new here.

It's called an iPad. Buy it with an external keyboard if you want a netbook. Apple will not come out with low priced junk for the sake of markets share. That's not how operate.

There's also the 11" Macbook Air. Considering how hard a time Apple has keeping them in stock, they are selling pretty well.

Just look at the performance of the other low-cost PC makers to get an idea of why Apple isn't entering the bottom-of-barrel club.

but it wouldn't be underpriced. They already have a computer at that price. It would not hurt their buisness at all because they're not becoming a 'cheaper' company, its simply a lesser expensive mac. And i doon't think they SHOULD do it, simply because it wouldnt help me in any way since the macbook is not my style, but it would make apple get a HUGE market boost in a matter of months.
do it:no
would it be smart:yes
post #24 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooman625 View Post

but it wouldn't be underpriced. They already have a computer at that price. It would not hurt their buisness at all because they're not becoming a 'cheaper' company, its simply a lesser expensive mac. And i doon't think they SHOULD do it, simply because it wouldnt help me in any way since the macbook is not my style, but it would make apple get a HUGE market boost in a matter of months.
do it:no
would it be smart:yes

Here's what the Macalope thinks about market share:

Quote:
You know what happens when you throw a market share party, right? You wake up the next day hung over and wondering where all your profit went.



But seriously, I think the "let's sell a super-cheap Mac to boost market share" plan would backfire. The reason being that for the last two decades, Apple has been a premium brand—the Apple logo means something. To Apple fans, it means a premium machine, it means "the whole widget", it means joining a community of Apple fans, etc. In general, people buy Apple computers (and now iOS devices) not simply because they want "a computer/device", but because they want everything that makes an Apple product an Apple product.
If Apple starts trying to play the market share game by selling cheap-ass products, nearly everyone—including Apple fans—instead of saying, "Awesome! Macs are now super cheap! I'll take three!"; they'll say, "WTF?? Apple is making/selling crap now?? Sorry, not interested." Okay, some people will be part of the "I'll take three!" crowd, but not enough for Apple to make any meaningful profits, and more importantly, that strategy will dilute/damage the Apple brand—irreparably, I think.
"Don't be a dick!"Wil Wheaton
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"Don't be a dick!"Wil Wheaton
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post #25 of 170
A long time ago, Jobs said, "We have to get rid of the idea that for Apple to win, Microsoft has to lose." Apple deftly stepped around Microsoft. And Microsoft is still looking at where Apple was.
post #26 of 170
it's statements like this that piss off microsoft share holders. this fool is boasting about sales when they didn't sell anything other than the operating system on a declining market of desktop computers.

investors want to see forward thinking design in a rising market with a lot of profit and that describes apple. but you don't need me to spell that out, just look at what microsoft trades at and compare mangos to apples.
post #27 of 170
Apple is Hardware maker, not a Software maker. For Ballmer to constantly compare MS against Apple in the Windows-Mac space is kinda ridiculous.

For illustration, Apple will gladly sell you a mac so you can run Windows on it. OTOH, MS would hardly be thrilled if you assembled a PC, but installed Mac OS X on it.

As a hardware maker, I think Apple is glad to be in the position where they make nearly 50% of the profits in the industry. I don't think they are too worried about their marketshare in that instance.
post #28 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

Steve Jobs conceded defeat in the "PC wars" 14 years ago. Ballmer still thinks it's the first or second inning. That said, Mac sales are growing at a rabid pace, and every time somebody buys their first mac, that's one less sale for MS.

Actually, conversations I have had with people at Microsoft is they actually don't care much. Know why? They make money due to all the other MS software people buy for use on their Macs. Mac users often purchase the same or more MS software on the Mac as many dual boot Windows (these licenses actually make MS more than the manufacturer licenses) and then use MS Office for the Mac.
post #29 of 170
I tried a Samsung Focus for a little over two weeks and returned it. The marketplace aside, the whole experience was half-baked. To name a few....

a) Couldn't join hidden WiFi
b) Couldn't subscribe to more than one Calendar (even on Hotmail!)
c) WiFi access was prioritized over Cellular data in sleep mode (my data bill proves it).
d) AMOLED screen was bright and crisp but very, very grainy compared to Retina display

Love my iPhone 4.
post #30 of 170
Quote:
Now, 20 is too much, but 350, last time I checked, is a lot more than 20.

Thanks for the math lesson Mr. Emballmer. Since you don't actually MAKE any of those 350 million computers and only get your (one time) fee by forcing them to put your OS on it, how much are you REALLY making per computer sold as opposed to the fruity guys? Apple profits about 30% of the $1k to $4k ($300 to $1200 per computer) And in the REAL growth sector, mobile devices, they're losing ground faster than an L.A. mudslide in monsoon season. Apple is now selling over 70 million iPhones and 32 million iPads a year, with an attached ONGOING revenue stream in the form of media and apps and carrier kickbacks.
post #31 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooman625 View Post

but it wouldn't be underpriced. They already have a computer at that price. It would not hurt their buisness at all because they're not becoming a 'cheaper' company, its simply a lesser expensive mac. And i doon't think they SHOULD do it, simply because it wouldnt help me in any way since the macbook is not my style, but it would make apple get a HUGE market boost in a matter of months.
do it:no
would it be smart:yes

I'm not so sure about that. The mac mini has the guts (contrary to my sig I now own one instead of a macbook) but you still have to add a high quality screen, trackpad and keyboard. That alone will get you back up to macbook/macbook air prices. Also, from my experience, a lot of people who can't "afford" macs but want to experience OSX tend to either buy refurb or buy second hand on craigslist/ebay/etc. which gets them a macbook at a mac mini price.
2010 mac mini/iPad OG/iPhone 4/appletv OG/appletv 2/ BT trackpad and keyboard/time capsule/ Wii
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2010 mac mini/iPad OG/iPhone 4/appletv OG/appletv 2/ BT trackpad and keyboard/time capsule/ Wii
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post #32 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

Apple is Hardware maker, not a Software maker.

I disagree, Apple is a Software AND Hardware maker. They excel at both, which is what gives them their edge over others who specialise in one or the other.
post #33 of 170
In other news...
Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer made yet another useless press release to try and divert attention away from his company's lack of forward movement.

And water is still wet.
post #34 of 170
When Mac OS X 10.0 launched Apple had maybe 25 million users TOTAL worldwide after 25 years in business. Now they're adding about 4 million new users PER QUARTER? Not bad.
post #35 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I wonder what Gates thinks of all this, while we're witnessing Ballmer drive the company into the ground.

I'll tell you what Gates thinks: "I got out at just the right time!" Seriously, Gates wasn't any better than Ballmer, he just spouted his mouth off less. The whole company is based on the Windows and Office monopolies and has been for 20 years.
post #36 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

Apple is Hardware maker, not a Software maker. For Ballmer to constantly compare MS against Apple in the Windows-Mac space is kinda ridiculous.

For illustration, Apple will gladly sell you a mac so you can run Windows on it. OTOH, MS would hardly be thrilled if you assembled a PC, but installed Mac OS X on it.

As a hardware maker, I think Apple is glad to be in the position where they make nearly 50% of the profits in the industry. I don't think they are too worried about their marketshare in that instance.

I can see it a bit, if I have money to spend, Microsoft would rather you by an HP so they get $40 bucks for the OS. Not going to happen in my world, but they would like it.

I loved the part about 350 being larger than 20, still pondering that revelation.
post #37 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

"Objects in mirror may be close than they appear"

Ballmer should perhaps spend less time looking in the rearview mirror at the rapidly approaching Applemobile and more time paying attention to where he is going. He keeps driving his car into the ditch.

yup, and apple doesn't have the majority of sales in any industry, but they are taking half the profits of the whole smartphone market, with about a 20% market share.

apple is also the most profitable PC maker.

apple is more valuable than microsoft as well.

hey microsoft, how much money could you make selling 350 million sticks of gum?
post #38 of 170
Ballmer looks older and thinner on the picture.
post #39 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

Apple is Hardware maker, not a Software maker.

Well, except for:
iTunes
Pages
Numbers
Keynote
Final Cut Pro
Motion
Compressor
Logic Pro
Mainstage
Soundtrack Pro
Garageband
iMovie
oh yes...and OSX and iOS.

Other than those (and a few others) you are correct.
post #40 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Hum, excuse me Ballmer, but who's making all the profits???

Er there about even, although Windows profits are a lot more secure than iPhone profits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

What a tard this guy is. He should be removed immediately.

People say this a lot but seriously why? Right now MS is releasing better products more consistantly than they ever have. Even Bing has somehow become a success!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wigby View Post

it's statements like this that piss off microsoft share holders. this fool is boasting about sales when they didn't sell anything other than the operating system on a declining market of desktop computers.

Sorry to correct you but the desktop market is not declining. At the moment its growing slower, to actually decline you actually have to sell less. The PC market is still selling more each year, and Microsoft still make record profits each year.

There's not many stats on it but the mobile phone market as a whole (i.e. not just smartphones) must also be doing the same thing. Rather than changing a phone every year, there a lot more 18 month contracts around indicating that there must be less sales. It would be couteracted by the fact people are spending a lot more on a phone, but in terms of unit sales I wouldn't be surprised if the growth rate was falling.
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