Microsoft CEO pans Apple's Mac sales, admits 'very small' Windows Phone sales - Page 4

I think Ballmer is just hurt because the "I'm a Mac" campaign was such a success and their Windows commercials (with Seinfeld) just sucked!!

He is hurt because the "I'm a Mac" campaign parodied Gates and not him.

Microsoft? Cutting Edge? Good one.

Oh, wait. You were serious? You're out of your mind. Microsoft hasn't done anything cutting edge for years. Their dominance in servers (if that is even true these days) doesn't change that.


That is, of course, totally false.

First, look at the iMac. Many of the components are not available on any other PC. The power supply, motherboard, case, display, keyboard, mouse, and OS all come to mind.

Second, there is the matter of specs. Even though the RAM (for example) looks like garden variety RAM, Apple consistently sets their specs well above industry averages. There are plenty of examples where generic third party RAM don't work as the motherboard requires good quality RAM which meets Apple's specs.

Finally, there's the matter of your silly attempt to lump all PCs together. Do you understand the difference between a $399 Walmart PC and your $3,000 hand-built system? Apple doesn't sell anything comparable to the low-end crapware systems out there. I don't think anyone ever said that Mac build quality was significantly different than the BEST PCs out there. But few people are buying those - most people are buying the junk ware systems.


Probably several possible reasons:
1. You're not smart enough to use Macs.
2. You make your living on tech support which means that your income depends on Windows' failures and you feel some loyalty.
3. You're just simply a geek and love to spend time troubleshooting.
4. You're able to keep your Windows system running smoothly -- which is difficult and unusual enough that you like being able to brag about it.
5. Like many rabid Apple haters, you never even considered anything different.

So which is it?


Actually, it's the fact that Microsoft has not grown significantly which demonstrates that Microsoft has not grown. Compare Microsoft's growth rate in sales, profitability, and market cap to Apple's over the last 5 or 10 years. It is the FACTS which show that Microsoft's growth rate is far below Apple's.


That's nice. Care to explain why anyone would care?

Furthermore, it doesn't change the fact that the information you posted above was all wrong.

Oh, and btw, if you really are using a MBA, you just destroyed your own argument. AFAIK, the only part of the MBA which is the same as generic PCs is the CPU. So much for your "Macs are 99% the same as PCs" argument.

un-uh. first, iOS and its Android knock off offer a very simple top level UI - a grid of apps. that can readily be adapted for anything/anyplace just by simply adding more icons (i.e., specialized apps for a certain market). Apple of course does not allow any telco to customize the iOS UI beyond that at all. but Android does, which makes it the most flexible of all (it's open!).

second and further, Apple is not trying to make the iPhone all things to all people. its target is consumers with pretty good incomes. but Nokia's Symbian phones were all things to all people. that was the market - volume sales - that WP 7 would have to take over.

but the key idea of WP 7's tiles is grouping/cross linking of apps and web services/notifications by specific activities. that's a neat idea, but it was designed for a typical USA user situation. the differing popular local apps and services in India, Indonesia, Brazil, etc. - if they work in WP 7 at all (they don't now) - may not be tile-integration-friendly.

and MS has said that, like Apple, it will not let telcos cusomtize the WP 7 UI and put their telco services up front, which is how they make lots of money.

with all these complications i just don't see WP 7 working globally in Nokia's prior position.

[QUOTE=jragosta;1899422]Microsoft? Cutting Edge? Good one.

Oh, wait. You were serious? You're out of your mind. Microsoft hasn't done anything cutting edge for years. Their dominance in servers (if that is even true these days) doesn't change that.



The only way MajorCrap could become cutting edge would be to include a 10-pack of double-edge safety razors with every Windoze 7 purchase.

actually factually... market cap is not a bottom line... it's a market's perception on the bottom line.

the bottom line is and will always be: profit.

the more profit, the more market cap should be. and if market cap doesn't track, then the company can buy back the stock and become private again. Get rid of stockholder meetings, 10Qs etc etc, mutual fund meddling, public retirement fund oversight... all that crap.

As to your 2nd point. I dunno... I'm sure his mother loves him...

... unless she owns MSFT

;-)

I'm sure he thinks that once Microsoft releases Windows 8 which will be preferred by businesses and by most consumer tablet users that everything will change in Microsoft's favor. There are some that honestly believe that the first Windows 8 tablet will be much better overall than Apple's 3rd or 4th generation iPad because the Windows 8 tablet will supposedly do EVERYTHING by running a full desktop OS in a 3/8" thick case. I'm sure if it were that easy then Apple could just as soon recompile Lion and run that on the iPad or some new iPad Plus. However, I doubt it. Most consumers are looking for simplicity, not complexity on a tablet.

Are you trying to set a record for number of posts?

What other reason could you have for 1000+ posts in a month? Just come out of a coma?

Anyone who thinks the component design and parts in a Mac Pro, iMac, Macbook, etc., are the same as the standard generic PC motherboard you can buy from ASUS, Biostar, Gigabyte, MSi, etc., I can only assume:

1. You've never studied IC Design
2. You've never built a Clone PC from Barebones to Workstation/Server Class
3. You don't mind fabricating as second nature
4. You are paid to spread disinformation
5. or you just repeat what you read from others.

Are you saying that my mac mini runs rings around my bf's acer netbook is because of better components and NOT pixie dust and the ground up hopes and dreams of virgin unicorns?! I'm shocked!

But seriously, claiming PC's (from the cheapest to the most expensive) have the same guts as a mac is ridiculous. Heck, apple even uses better screens than most PC laptops I've seen. And look at Dell's current advertising campaign. They're making a big deal over changeable covers. Really?! That's important for a potential buyer?

Not where its been.

Ballmer is lost. But keep on keepin on Ballmer.

Google and Apple are creating a new world order while you're still eating steak in the executive suite...getting fatter and sloppier with each bite.

No, you're using only one definition of 'bottom line'.
http://education.yahoo.com/reference.../bottom%20line

The definition you are using is #1 - a financial statement term.

The definition I was using is #2 - the final result.

The final result (if you prefer) is that according to the evaluation of millions of investors, Apple is worth 50% more than Microsoft.


And, yet, the same stupid claim is being made constantly by the Apple-hating trolls. Go figure.

We should be nice to MS, if WP7 had been 3 or 4 years earlier it would have been cutting edge. By MS standards 3-4 years late is bang up to date.

Hey, it's good to have a goal

Funny how Balls-mer is shouting about 350M new PCs per year when he just announced 400M Windows 7 licenses sold. Everyone thought that was so impressive yesterday. Now we see that it is really just over a year's new PC sales.

Since I doubt that the 400M number is excluding new PC sales, given that since Oct 2009 when Win 7 was launched, there have been about 600M PCs sold, that 400M is about 2/3 of that total. Assuming that 25M were Macs, the the same were Linux/Unix boxes, then the 400M number is not so very impressive. When XP was launched in 2001 the total new PC market was 130M, it is no wonder that Win & has outsold XP 18 months into its life. Perhaps they should look at share of new PC/installed base etc. I would think that XP was probably doing better in replacing WinME or Win98 since i don't think there were many who actively searched for WinME downgrade.

To recap, 600M PCs sold since Win7 launch, the same for non-Windows PCs, 400M Win 7 licenses, (of which let's say 50M were upgrades to people who could not wait for their next PC to get off Vista/XP), then MS sales of Win 7 is about 63% of new PC sales - yawn (a lot of XP on cheap netbooks and cheap laptops in 2009/10).

(600 - 25 - 25)/(400-50) =63% of new PCs shipped with Win7 since Oct 2009.

(suggesting 200M shipped with XP).

As of April/May 2011, XP was still about 8 points higher than Win7 in the installed base (38% vs 30%).

Mentioning that Apple takes 1/3 of PC industry profits off 4% of unit sales is just rubbing it in.

One less sale for MS, again and again till Windows goes away and MS makes something better than Mac OS X.

Though this seems very improbable, MS will end up making something else and eventually get out of the OS department if it survives the death of Windows OS at all.

It's interesting that people don't upgrade Windows as much as they do their computers (most still use 10 year old XP! meaning people don't buy Windows itself much). A great majority of Mac users upgrade Mac OS X every time, till they want to, or have to upgrade their Mac. (Or simply buy more, different Macs)

In other words people like Mac OS X and want the newest and best, where as most Windows users don't get excited about newer versions of Windows because there just isn't much to get excited about. Malware and Windows problems are still there.

But were those very small sales at least "smooth"?

Actually, Apple is selling you an experience. The hardware and software (both of which Apple is a maker) are tools they use. Jobs had a very nice quote in this year's iPad 2 presentation about how Apple merges the best of technology and the liberal arts to create great products.

Don't forget the unicorn tears. That's at least a quarter of the cost of a Mac.

BTW "The new iPad 3 Air. Now 25% more magical."

Yep. It's easy to have tons of sales when you make machines that are lucky to last over a year.

Also, how do the dollars stack up. and what's Windows marketshare etc.

It might be 10 to 1 Windows over Mac but there was a time when was more like 20 to 1. And Ballmer really wants us to think that he's not a tad nervous about that



Yep it means a machine that doesn't break down in two years. It means a machine that is backed by in store techs, trainers etc. Hate to break it to folks but your AppleCare etc barely covers the cost of a single repair. And certainly doesn't cover the cost of the staff to fix it. Not to mention the trainers etc for the free workshops. Where do you think that money comes off. It's part of what you buy when you buy the computer. Or the ipad or whatever. There's also licensing fees that many 'the components only cost' folks aren't taking into account. etc.

You pay a lot but you get a lot for your money.

Mango? Really?

Perhaps Steve Ballmer is planning an advertising tie-in with Chris Kattan's character from the Saturday Night Live. You know, to make a play for the young crowd, show them Microsoft is still as cool as ever.

The adverts will feature Steve and Chris in gold lamé hot pants -- Aarrrrgggghh! I've gone blind!

In this defence, I think Cloudgazer does post some of the most informed and interesting posts. I don't mind reading them!

Er... from whom? Who else sells Windows? I think Microsoft may be resting on some laurels here... the Mac will never outsell Windows because most of Microsoft's sales are automatic. And who really cares? Microsoft won that one decades ago - and they're still gloating over it? Sounds like Mr Ballmer's company needs a dose of Vitamin V...

MS uses windows to mean PC, they've had the monopoly so long that they've lost the ability to distinguish, and yes the competition is actually significant. Obviously there's Apple and Linux taking an increasingly large segment of laptops, even without tablets being counted as PCs. Linux and variants are even starting to take corporate desktop seats, especially in call centres and the like. I'm not sure what is going on in the server room these days, but I presume Linux is slowly taking share there too.

What's really hurting though is that MS is being hammered in the browser space
( see for instance http://gs.statcounter.com/ ). The loss of the IE monopoly and the inexorable rise of Webkit powered browsers is what is allowing all these other attacks to take place. MS knew the risk which is why it killed off netscape in the 90s, but the DoJ wouldn't stand for it again, and besides the web community has grown wiser to MS-style 'embrace & extend'.

The Windows monopoly is a lot more vulnerable than it was, hence all the chest thumping.

To all those saying MS can't innovate I have a few items for you:
Kinect http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/06/mf_kinect/
Surface http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx
Photosynth http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx

And MS crushes Apple in the business enterprise space. MS knows how to handle big corporate customers. Apple does not - see the recent FCP fiasco.

I completely agree that MS could be so much more with a more tech-savvy instead of business-savvy leader. But they are not headed to bankruptcy any time soon.

- Jasen.

Microsoft did not actually sell any computers.

It's so great that I tried changing my user name to anonytrackpad.

Innovation doesn't just mean throwing technology out, it means making technology take. MS has on occasion innovated, but I wouldn't consider any of those good examples of it. Oh and your last hyperlink is wrong

Even the most casual observer will note that everyone listens when Steve Jobs speaks, but nobody cares what Blowhard Ballmer says.

Steve Ballmer needs to stop complaining about the other guy. The other guy is winning and Ballmer does not know what to do.

PC sales are 350 million because they cost $4 ... lot's of people are going to buy $4 PCs ... but where is Zune? Where is Windows Phone? Where is the tablet?

MS is failing in these other areas because they are following, not leading.

Memo to Steve Ballmer ... shut your pie trap and start innovating.

Problem here is - MS needs new markets. They simply cannot grow much more - any more - in desktops, servers, office software. Even if Apple would decide to ditch desktop OSX and completely move to phones/tablets/media players, MS would grow, what? Another 10% in US, 5% worldwide?

Like them or not, MS has reached pinnacle in what they are already good at. Now they can comfortably stagnate or try to conquer - or, at least, bite as much as they can - from newly emerging, still growing markets: smart phones, tablets.

I'm finding it amusing that so many people here think MS is chasing after Apple; they are not. They are chasing after markets where it just happens Apple is very strong, but they are not chasing those markets because Apple is strong there - they are chasing them because they are weak and can expand. Likewise, they were chasing game console market where Apple did not exist (at the time) but where Sony and Nintendo were strong... and when you thing of it, Apple is chasing that market as well, though from a bit different angle of approach.

Apple is rapidly acquiring the same problem, and they still have to figure out what to do with the rapidly burgeoning war-chest. Still, as problems go it's a good problem to have.

True that... though, Apple has very strong position in the markets that are expecting to grow enormously - smart phones, tablets. In a way, they are better than MS - who has strong position in a market that will grow very little at best, stagnate at average or even shrink at worst - and who need to expand in market they haven't even make a decent breakthrough yet.

But at the end of the day, they both have surplus of money they need to invest where they can expand their market share and profit.

Well, they are looking at Google as well. They were looking at Sony and Nintendo when they started Xbox thing.

And Apple is looking at RIM, Google, Samsung, HTC. Apple is also growing taste for gaming, so I'm pretty sure they are closely watching (and analysing) Nintendo and Sony.

And Apple, MS and RIM are together behind Rockstar Bidco who out-bided Goggle for Nortel patent portfolio. Enemies or best buddies..?

Trust me - they all look where others are. Only some of them do that a bit less obvious.

I tried to argue with that but I gave up eventually.

The fact is, however, that MS has released number of quality products in the years after Gates, compared to product being released in the same number of years before his retirement.

Also worth considering is that Vista was Gates legacy (after more than 6 years of XP), and Windows Server family didn't change much from 2003.

Now... SB is hardly likeable (though I'm finding his appearances amusing)... but then again, I'm finding SJ hardly likeable, even if very different reasons.

SB is not visionary, but he is wise enough to realise that and let more capable people do their job without much interference from his side. If you accept you cannot have man of SJ's talents in every company (and it probably wouldn't work for every company anyway), SB is doing fine job where he is.

Actually Microsoft's customer satisfaction was higher than Apple's after Windows 7 was released; don't know how do they compare right now, but it wasn't long ago. But don't confuse MS customer satisfaction to Dell, HP, Asus... and other hardware vendors' customer satisfaction.

That is normal. Think percentages.

If 5% (1 in 20) users switch from Mac to Windows, Windows market share will hardly notice that. The growth will not be even close to 1%.

If 5% users switch from Windows to Mac, Mac market share will explode. It will almost double number of Mac users world wide.

When you have 5% of worldwide market share, it is so much easier to grow. When you have 95%, you simply don't have any more space to grow.

I already said this, but just for the lolz... If every Mac would come with bootcamp-ed Windows and MS Office, MS would see 5% of growth sales worldwide. It is hardly something to write home about.

But if MS and Nokia play it right, they can see much bigger growth in mobile market.

It is not given, but it can be done. MS did it with consoles, taking on unquestionable leader Sony was at the time (with PS and PS2).

Dude. Are you 12 or something? That name-changing is really lame.

You managed to discredit yourself with first sentence. Not bad achievement.

Microsoft Security Essentials, growing to be No.1 consumer AV in US. I believe they are already No.1 free AV, before Avira, AVG, Comodo Security. Free of charge.

Windows SkyDrive, 25GB of online storage for free. This will grow into MS cloud space for syncing desktops and mobile devices.

What subscriptions do you believe are required to run Windows, anyway?