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Microsoft CEO pans Apple's Mac sales, admits 'very small' Windows Phone sales - Page 2

post #41 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

"Objects in mirror may be close than they appear"

Ballmer should perhaps spend less time looking in the rearview mirror at the rapidly approaching Applemobile and more time paying attention to where he is going. He keeps driving his car into the ditch.

In reality, he's using binoculars to see ahead of him the Mobile space accelerating away from him where Apple and Android are speeding off, and in the rear-view he's ignoring the traffic behind him that is gaining ground on him and shrugging it off as nothing.
post #42 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

I'm not so sure about that. The mac mini has the guts (contrary to my sig I now own one instead of a macbook) but you still have to add a high quality screen, trackpad and keyboard. That alone will get you back up to macbook/macbook air prices. Also, from my experience, a lot of people who can't "afford" macs but want to experience OSX tend to either buy refurb or buy second hand on craigslist/ebay/etc. which gets them a macbook at a mac mini price.

if you are switching from a desktop PC, you don't have to buy a monitor or keyboard.

trackpad? with a desktop? lame.
post #43 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffhrsn View Post

Well, except for:
iTunes
Pages
Numbers
Keynote
Final Cut Pro
Motion
Compressor
Logic Pro
Mainstage
Soundtrack Pro
Garageband
iMovie
oh yes...and OSX and iOS.

Other than those (and a few others) you are correct.

Everyone but iTunes only runs on Apple Hardware.
post #44 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

I'm not so sure about that. The mac mini has the guts (contrary to my sig I now own one instead of a macbook) but you still have to add a high quality screen, trackpad and keyboard. That alone will get you back up to macbook/macbook air prices. Also, from my experience, a lot of people who can't "afford" macs but want to experience OSX tend to either buy refurb or buy second hand on craigslist/ebay/etc. which gets them a macbook at a mac mini price.

Well im not sure about the refurb sales, it is really cool to see average weekly pay maps and average mac market share of the states. I've only found the maps once but they are identical. It is a fact that people who afford macs get them. And there are $500 pc's with an i series processor in them so it wouldn't be too hard for apple to be able to do something like that. The insides of the macbook are worth half as much as they were last year so it wouldn't be too hard to just lower the price like with the 3gs. Also, without backlit keyboard, terrible internals with a core 2 duo, plastice, no sd slot, and no glassy, its not like it would really compete with their other computers and the ipad is a different product all together.

still...i don't think it will ever happen. Apple probably sleeps happy knowing that if they're mac sales ever decline, a cheap mac would easily turn that around
post #45 of 170
This bodes well for Mac sales --- the last time SB belittled an Apple product (the iPhone) it went on to trounce MS' offerings.
post #46 of 170
The comparison should be what percentage of market share does each hold for computers that cost $1200 and up. As it is he is comparing apples to mangoes.
post #47 of 170
I think Steve is right 350 is bigger than 20.

The only areas where Apple leads Microsoft are Revenues, EPS, Market Cap, Growth Rate and Customer Satisfaction (not to mention Security and Stability as well.)

Does anyone really think any of those are all that important?
post #48 of 170
Ballmer doesn't have any vision. Compare Ballmer with Steve Jobs. Ballmer likes to sit on his assets while Jobs likes to innovate and knock products out of the ballpark. There is no greater evidence showing Ballmer's lack of vision than his recent comments about Windows vs. Mac. You know what, it's not about that anymore. It's about Windows vs. Android vs. iOS. And Microsoft has no horse in that race, meaning we've already witnessed the beginning of Microsoft's decline. Hallelu!
post #49 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangential View Post

I think Steve is right 350 is bigger than 20.

The only areas where Apple leads Microsoft are Revenues, EPS, Market Cap, Growth Rate and Customer Satisfaction (not to mention Security and Stability as well.)

Does anyone really think any of those are all that important?

The one area Microsoft leads Apple is Dividend payments. Do any shareholders find those important?
post #50 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooman625 View Post

do it:no
would it be smart:yes

So, in your words then .... it's the "smart" thing to do ..... but Apple shouldn't do it ..... please tell me that you're not studying "how to run a business" in college .... that would be too painful to hear.
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post #51 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

Apple is Hardware maker, not a Software maker. For Ballmer to constantly compare MS against Apple in the Windows-Mac space is kinda ridiculous.

For illustration, Apple will gladly sell you a mac so you can run Windows on it. OTOH, MS would hardly be thrilled if you assembled a PC, but installed Mac OS X on it.

As a hardware maker, I think Apple is glad to be in the position where they make nearly 50% of the profits in the industry. I don't think they are too worried about their marketshare in that instance.

Truth be told, I run Windows on both my MBA and my iMac. I can honestly say that my Macs are the best Windows machines I've ever owned. Prior to buying my first Mac, I used to build my own rigs. That's high praise.
post #52 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by akhomerun View Post

if you are switching from a desktop PC, you don't have to buy a monitor or keyboard.

trackpad? with a desktop? lame.

My post was in response to someone who said apple should sell a LAPTOP for the same price as a mac mini. I was giving my opinion on why that would not be possible while maintaining the same level of quality. Before you declare something "lame" try reading the post first.

Also, I have a magic trackpad with my mini and it is hardly lame. It's awesome in fact.
2010 mac mini/iPad OG/iPhone 4/appletv OG/appletv 2/ BT trackpad and keyboard/time capsule/ Wii
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2010 mac mini/iPad OG/iPhone 4/appletv OG/appletv 2/ BT trackpad and keyboard/time capsule/ Wii
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post #53 of 170
Microsoft market cap = 227 billion

Apple market cap = 332 billion

Done and done.

Let's not forget Apples on hand cash asset approaching 70+ billion, and they are debt free.
post #54 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Truth be told, I run Windows on both my MBA and my iMac. I can honestly say that my Macs are the best Windows machines I've ever owned. Prior to buying my first Mac, I used to build my own rigs. That's high praise.

How many Macs that have been sold are still in use compared to how many PCs are in the recycle bin? And how often to people switch from Mac to PC?

If there was a reliable way to determine how many computers of each type are being used the "market share" charts would look very different I think.

And while Apple certainly needs certain amount of market share to ensure that third parties etc do not leave the platform - it is not the focus for Apple relative to profits. What MS may be missing is that each quarter their use base is eroded as more and more people switch to alternatives.
post #55 of 170
Kind of funny that Microsoft now has to make strategic comments regarding competition from Apple rather than just brushing them off as nuisances.

Once you acknowledge an enemy, they've won. -- Sun Tzu (maybe)
post #56 of 170
Balmer is a idiot, and anyone with microsoft stock should be calling for his removal.
post #57 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by enjourni View Post

Balmer is an idiot, and anyone with microsoft stock should be calling for his removal.

I would much rather Ballmer to continue running Microsoft into the ground, so please, let him stay ;-)
post #58 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

I disagree, Apple is a Software AND Hardware maker. They excel at both, which is what gives them their edge over others who specialise in one or the other.

Not to step on your toes, but as Steve has said numerous times, Apple is "the whole widget" maker. They make the software, the hardware, and they make them play nicely together so that the user has a complete, intuitive computing experience. My Macs have been the best example of technology getting out of the way of my work. For the last four Macs I've owned, I never once looked at the user manual; I just plugged it in, turned it on and started working/playing. "It just works"
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post #59 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by akhomerun View Post

trackpad? with a desktop? lame.

I personally would never go without my magic trackpad. It's been over a year sans mouse and am loving it. You should really give it a good go.
post #60 of 170
Folks, quit getting worked up over Ballmer's jabs at Apple. That's a part of the game. In case you all have forgotten, Steve Jobs is known to take swipes at competitors. Remember "2011: Year of the Copycats?" Also, he derisively remarked back in October that the slew of 7-inch tablets coming to the market should come with sandpaper so that users can file their fingers so that they can type on those tablets. And he has publicly vilified Google and Adobe. It's the job of CEOs to talk up their own products and point out the faults in competitors' products.

It doesn't bother me in the least that Ballmer has panned Mac sales. I just feel bad that Microsoft's vast resources are going to waste because the guy at the top just has no idea how to run a company. Apple isn't even trying to unseat Windows in desktop computing. Instead, Apple has moved on. Apple has iOS, their cash cow. Microsoft has Windows Phone 7. There is talk about Windows 8 but as far as I'm concerned, until we see a live demo and a release timeline for it, it's nothing but vaporware.
post #61 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

Also, I have a magic trackpad with my mini and it is hardly lame. It's awesome in fact.

<snark>Try playing Starcraft 2 on a trackpad!</snark>

But really, the trackpad is very intuitive. In fact, the only reason I use a mouse nowadays is to play SC2.
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post #62 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

The one area Microsoft leads Apple is Dividend payments. Do any shareholders find those important?

I think shareholders are doing just fine with the incredibly-rising stock price in recent years.

I mean, if you bought Apple stock even a couple years ago, it's tripled in price.
post #63 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffhrsn View Post

Well, except for:
iTunes
Pages
Numbers
Keynote
Final Cut Pro
Motion
Compressor
Logic Pro
Mainstage
Soundtrack Pro
Garageband
iMovie
oh yes...and OSX and iOS.

Other than those (and a few others) you are correct.

And how much revenue out of that actually shows up on their quarterly reports? How much of that software runs on non-Apple hardware?

Apple is a hardware maker that considers software to be an integral part of their hardware. Which is why they make the software.
post #64 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Er there about even, although Windows profits are a lot more secure than iPhone profits.


People say this a lot but seriously why? Right now MS is releasing better products more consistantly than they ever have. Even Bing has somehow become a success!


Sorry to correct you but the desktop market is not declining. At the moment its growing slower, to actually decline you actually have to sell less. The PC market is still selling more each year, and Microsoft still make record profits each year.

There's not many stats on it but the mobile phone market as a whole (i.e. not just smartphones) must also be doing the same thing. Rather than changing a phone every year, there a lot more 18 month contracts around indicating that there must be less sales. It would be couteracted by the fact people are spending a lot more on a phone, but in terms of unit sales I wouldn't be surprised if the growth rate was falling.

Is this true? I would be at least a little surprised if it were.....less and less people I know are buying desktops....in fact I dont know the last person in my circle who bought a windows desktop.....one bought an imac, but everyone else I know has been buying laptops for years and years....
post #65 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Everyone but iTunes only runs on Apple Hardware.

+++

And iTunes also only runs on Windows because its necessary for iDevices.

The only true Apple "software" which is not designed to sell hardware, is Safari. And Safari has completely different reasons for existing (to push the open web).
post #66 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

The one area Microsoft leads Apple is Dividend payments. Do any shareholders find those important?

When you're stock flatlines for a decade, then yeah.
post #67 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooman625 View Post

$400 all apple needs to do is come out with a laptop priced the same as its mac mini. That would get innovation satarting from microsoft as 45% of all computers sold are apple. And it wouldn't hurt their brand name cause they already have a cheap computer. Ballmer is a joke of a ceo anyways...he's like a 12 year old kid mocking apple in computer class while he's running a company that hardle even competes with apple

this is quite frankly, never going to happen. lets just break it down to see why: Apple likes to keep their profit margin at around 30% (which anyone in marketing/business will tell you that is the best range to keep it at) so a $699 cheap Apple laptop would have a max build cost of around $489. From that, you would also have to subtract the cost of the screen, keyboard, FaceTime HD camera, and Apple"s pretty much best in the industry battery (all things the mini doesn't have to factor in). After all that you are looking at maybe $200 for motherboard, RAM, processor, harddrive, and any special connector chipsets (think thunderbolt). Apple can't build it to their standards for that price, and with comparable parts and those extras, they already built the MacBook Air, at as close to the price point of the mini that is physically possible
post #68 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

<snark>Try playing Starcraft 2 on a trackpad!</snark>

But really, the trackpad is very intuitive. In fact, the only reason I use a mouse nowadays is to play SC2.

Lol. I'm not a gamer at all so I wouldn't know about that. I will say that the mouse is better for photoshop IMO.

As for Ballmer, I wonder what the OEM's who are struggling thinks of this. Microsoft is making money, but the hardware makers are barely squeaking by. While he's crowing, Rome is burning.
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post #69 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

A long time ago, Jobs said, "We have to get rid of the idea that for Apple to win, Microsoft has to lose." Apple deftly stepped around Microsoft. And Microsoft is still looking at where Apple was.

Of course Steve Jobs stated it so elegant and succinctly, just like the focus on design and elegance for their products. Stop worrying about Ballmer and MS and just keep Apple forging ahead in R&D and everything will take care of itself.
post #70 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post

Folks, quit getting worked up over Ballmer's jabs at Apple. That's a part of the game. In case you all have forgotten, Steve Jobs is known to take swipes at competitors. Remember "2011: Year of the Copycats?" Also, he derisively remarked back in October that the slew of 7-inch tablets coming to the market should come with sandpaper so that users can file their fingers so that they can type on those tablets. And he has publicly vilified Google and Adobe. It's the job of CEOs to talk up their own products and point out the faults in competitors' products.

It doesn't bother me in the least that Ballmer has panned Mac sales. I just feel bad that Microsoft's vast resources are going to waste because the guy at the top just has no idea how to run a company. Apple isn't even trying to unseat Windows in desktop computing. Instead, Apple has moved on. Apple has iOS, their cash cow. Microsoft has Windows Phone 7. There is talk about Windows 8 but as far as I'm concerned, until we see a live demo and a release timeline for it, it's nothing but vaporware.

I think the objections here are not just that Ballmer is taking pot-shots at Apple. Apple's a HUGE company, and hence, is fair game for criticism, even satire, parody, what-have-you. The issue is that Ballmer basically behaves like a big, dumb playground bully. When Steve Jobs makes comments or pokes fun at the competition, they're very likely grounded in reality, and are worthwhile criticisms. Ballmer says things like "The iPhone is doing better than I'd like it to." (WTF???) or in this article, his comparison of 20 million Macs to 350 million PCs is meaningless, because Ballmer's company doesn't make or sell PCs. It's not even Apples and oranges. It's Apples and trombones. A more fair and correct comparison would have been Microsoft OS installations compared to Mac OS installations. Finally, for Ballmer to say that "20 [million Macs] is too much..." is just plain rude. You shouldn't wish for your competition to be less successful, rather you should focus your energies on making your company more successful.

If Microsoft gets around to making their own tablet, and it passes the iPad in sales or profits, or, if WP7 or whatever it's called, passes iOS in, well, any context, then Ballmer will have something to gloat about, and rightly so. But, I think that will only happen if Apple shuts down all their R&D skunkworks facilitiesand that likelihood of that is rather small, I think.
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post #71 of 170
Poor Mr. Balmer. He so much wants to be seen as a genius of technology. And he is so not.
post #72 of 170
If I remember correctly, Microsoft has sold exactly zero computers, I'm not sure why they're belittling the 20 million computers sold by Apple.

Oh, they were talking about operating systems? Last I checked, Apple didn't license OSX out to third parties. Comparing Apples and oranges Ballmer. That said, their Windows 7 sales are impressive, and it is a good OS. Praise I rarely give to a Microsoft OS.
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post #73 of 170
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Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

Steve Jobs conceded defeat in the "PC wars" 14 years ago. Ballmer still thinks it's the first or second inning. That said, Mac sales are growing at a rabid pace, and every time somebody buys their first mac, that's one less sale for MS.

Everytime someone buys a Mac that's one less Windows license for every instance for which a non-Mac 'PC' is typically purchased.
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post #74 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Give it up Ballmer. Apple is no longer interested in overtaking the Windows marketshare and hasn't thought about that in some time. Go ahead and take your 350 million windows PCs and do what you do with them. I'll take profits, quality and design any day over race to the bottom pricing for computers.

Mangos are a lot messier than apples to deal with.

They also have a smaller market share in the fruit market. Bannana would probably be more fitting for Balmer.
post #75 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcphoto View Post

It's like comparing Apples to Oranges, one Company sells well designed products at a premium price while other sells products to the masses at discount prices. It's like comparing Kia's to Mercedes Benz, one sets the standards while the other is denying the others quality.

I agree about the Kia. They really build great cars (I'm driving one).
post #76 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

Microsoft market cap = 227 billion

Apple market cap = 332 billion

Done and done.

Let's not forget Apples on hand cash asset approaching 70+ billion, and they are debt free.

To be fair you need to throw HP, Dell, etc. in with Microsoft. The important thing is having the superior OS and a sustainable business model. Apple is already winning where it counts.
post #77 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_K View Post

Ballmer looks older and thinner on the picture.


Or looking younger- he shows a marked resemblance to Stewie Griffin, complete with the same self-satisfied smile.
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post #78 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

Steve Jobs conceded defeat in the "PC wars" 14 years ago. Ballmer still thinks it's the first or second inning. That said, Mac sales are growing at a rabid pace, and every time somebody buys their first mac, that's one less sale for MS.

Agreed. In fact it's even more than 'one less sale' as that new buyer usually loves it and shows their PC friends and a few more take the leap and so it goes ...
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post #79 of 170
And they sold way more buggy whips.
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post #80 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

This subject has been beaten to a pulp. You must be new here.

It's called an iPad. Buy it with an external keyboard if you want a netbook. Apple will not come out with low priced junk for the sake of markets share. That's not how operate.

There's also the 11" Macbook Air. Considering how hard a time Apple has keeping them in stock, they are selling pretty well.

Just look at the performance of the other low-cost PC makers to get an idea of why Apple isn't entering the bottom-of-barrel club.

It's no brainer to downscale a MAC than to upscale the iPad which already has 100K apps plus 90% Market share plus fully cloud based.
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