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HTC says Apple would rather sue than compete 'fairly in the market'

post #1 of 110
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Responding to the latest legal challenge from Apple, people speaking for handset maker HTC on Tuesday said they are "disappointed" that Apple is suing its competitors "instead of competing fairly in the market."

The comments were made by HTC general counsel Grace Lei in a statement provided to Agence France Press. HTC responded to a new complaint filed last week, in which Apple asked the U.S. International Trade Commission once again to block to the import of hardware the company believes infringes on patents it owns.

"HTC is disappointed at Apple's constant attempts at litigations instead of competing fairly in the market," Lei reportedly said. "HTC strongly denies all infringement claims by Apple in the past and present and reiterates our determination and commitment to protect our intellectual property rights."

The report noted that patent lawsuits are common in the mobile industry, but mistakenly said that Apple and Nokia are currently suing each other for patent infringement. That dispute was resolved last month, when Apple agreed to pay Nokia for licenses and both companies agreed to withdraw their complaints from the ITC.

But Apple is still engaged in a legal fight with Samsung at the ITC, with a new filing made last week. Apple's latest complaint requested the commission block the import of Samsung devices, including its Galaxy S phone and Galaxy Tab touchscreen tablet.



Apple's fight with HTC began in March of 2010 when the iPhone maker accused the Taiwanese company of infringing on 20 patents related to the iPhone's user interface, underlying architecture and hardware. In an accompanying statement, Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs said he believes competition in the industry is "healthy," but that competitors like HTC should not "steal" Apple's technology.

HTC last year responded in kind, with a lawsuit that accuses Apple of infringing on five patents. As is standard practice, HTC asked the ITC to ban the import of Apple products into America, including the iPhone, iPad and iPod lineup.
post #2 of 110
These patent infringement that Apple is claiming is boring news...
post #3 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... That dispute was resolved last month, when Apple agreed to pay Nokia for licenses ...

Would rephrasing to something like, "when Apple and Nokia reached agreement on license fees", be more accurate. As I recall Apple didn't refuse to pay but disputed the amount.
post #4 of 110
If you copy people's shit then be prepared to pay a license for it. That applies to all parties including Apple.
post #5 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Responding to the latest legal challenge from Apple, people speaking for handset maker HTC on Tuesday said they are "disappointed" that Apple is suing its competitors "instead of competing fairly in the market."...

Translation:

"We think it's fair to copy all your stuff, but we don't think it's fair you disagree with this."
post #6 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

If you copy people's shit then be prepared to pay a license for it. That applies to all parties including Apple.

Amen!
post #7 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauty of Bath View Post

Would rephrasing to something like, "when Apple and Nokia reached agreement on license fees", be more accurate. As I recall Apple didn't refuse to pay but disputed the amount.

Finally somebody that remember that was FRAND problem at start, not dispute about will Apple pay for licence but how much.
post #8 of 110
HTC is such a horrid company, how can they put this on Apple? So let me guess, Apple is the non innovative antagonizer in this debacle? racist comment removed
post #9 of 110
Apple has lost every bit of their integrity. They are going to find that their childish lawsuits are going to hurt them in the end when government rewrites patent laws loosening their scope rendering many of Apples patents void. Hell, Apple has done such a great job with their patents, the patent office will probably us them as the new standard.
post #10 of 110
Damn straight they're disappointed. Are they supposed to be happy about being sued?
post #11 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragan0405 View Post

Finally somebody that remember that was FRAND problem at start, not dispute about will Apple pay for licence but how much.

Actually nokia not only wanted apple to pay more for their licensing fees than other handset manufacturers, but also was requiring apple to cross license their iPhone patents as well. The reason the decision was a win for apple is because they didn't have to cross license ANYTHING and paid the standard fee.
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post #12 of 110
This defense is as lame as the average luddite on OSNews with it's constant barrage of Patent articles and absolutely zero knowledge of the Patent Systems.
post #13 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

Actually nokia not only wanted apple to pay more for their licensing fees than other handset manufacturers, but also was requiring apple to cross license their iPhone patents as well. The reason the decision was a win for apple is because they didn't have to cross license ANYTHING and paid the standard fee.

Yes and most people don't grasp this reality.

The press release headline from Nokia made it very clear that they came to Apple to stop the bleeding, not the other way around.
post #14 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2-core View Post

Apple has lost every bit of their integrity. They are going to find that their childish lawsuits are going to hurt them in the end when government rewrites patent laws loosening their scope rendering many of Apples patents void. Hell, Apple has done such a great job with their patents, the patent office will probably us them as the new standard.

Crawl back to your hole.
post #15 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Yes and most people don't grasp this reality.

The press release headline from Nokia made it very clear that they came to Apple to stop the bleeding, not the other way around.

I think if you reread the settlement terms, Nokia did get some licensing from Apple, altho it's claimed nothing that's critical to iOS.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #16 of 110
Par for the course, girlfriend. Deal with it.
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #17 of 110
Apparently HTC feels that copying others' intellectual property constitutes "competing fairly". While knocking off someone's work may work in Asia, it doesn't play well on this side of the pond. I hope HTC dies.
post #18 of 110
The last few charts showing lawsuits going to and from Apple and competitors showed clearly that Apple is far more often the target rather than the initiator of suits.

Note to HTC: Do you really think Apple has made its way to the top by suing and not innovating? Why don't you review your history of 20th century technology. What was HTC doing back in 1984 when Apple rocked the world? Oh, that's right, you didn't even exist yet. And wouldn't for another 13 years while Apple continued to develop game-changing products and you built me-too laptops.

Typical lawyer-mouthpiece BS.
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post #19 of 110
The whiners here have a very short attention span. Typical.

Before Apple entered the market. It was all horrid Blackberry, Palm Treo, and Nokia button folks. Now comes Apple with an entirely new way, and literally the following week the asian copy machines run at full speed and now claim Apple is not competing "fairly" in the market.

What was it that Steve Jobs said at the original iPhone introduction?? It's on the tip of my tongue...
Oh yeah, this is what he said:

http://www.businessinsider.com/and-b...nted-it-2010-3

No shame these people.
post #20 of 110
So HTC's idea of fair competition is to be able to copy everything Apple innovated with the iPhone? The iPhone comes out in 2007, jump starts the smartphone market, and now everybody is copying it. Schmidt comes off the Apple board and Android suddenly takes off. HTC grabs Android, photocopies the iPhone and expects Apple to just sit back and "play fair"? Not hardly.
post #21 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I think if you reread the settlement terms, Nokia did get some licensing from Apple, altho it's claimed nothing that's critical to iOS.

I wonder why no one ever mentions that a month before the final settlement, Apple purchased around 200 patents from Freescale (Motorola) all relating to wireless communications... Couldn't this be the IP that was cross licensed?
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #22 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2-core View Post

Apple has lost every bit of their integrity. They are going to find that their childish lawsuits are going to hurt them in the end when government rewrites patent laws loosening their scope rendering many of Apples patents void. Hell, Apple has done such a great job with their patents, the patent office will probably us them as the new standard.

But anyone suing Apple is, of course, just exercising their lawful rights according to the haters. Stop in again in a couple of months and post some more drivel.
post #23 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexus View Post

There from Taiwan...jeez is it that hard to go to the company website or wiki?

THEY'RE from Taiwan. If you're going to correct somebody, do it correctly. Smartass.
post #24 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

Actually nokia not only wanted apple to pay more for their licensing fees than other handset manufacturers, but also was requiring apple to cross license their iPhone patents as well. The reason the decision was a win for apple is because they didn't have to cross license ANYTHING and paid the standard fee.

If all that there is to it is what you're saying "... they just wanted to pay the standard fee..." I don't see how any court would side against them with Nokia but the fact is that they settle they're paying and Nokia is still using whatever patents they said Nokia was using. I only see it as they knew they were going to loose in court period. As I said before the settlement "They will never win any of these lawsuits against mobile/hardware companies that have been doing cell phones when Apple sucked 10-15 years period" it takes more than icons/layouts/swipes to build a cell phone and the facts is that Apple is missing patents on the guts of what a cell phone is, patents that Nokia, HTC, Samsung, Motorola, Sony/Ericksson own and they don't want to just license to a competitor for only money. That's the reason Apple needed so badly the Nortel patents.
post #25 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

HTC on Tuesday said they are "disappointed" that Apple is suing its competitors "instead of competing fairly in the market."

Were HTC a child its parent would say "I told you before you started. Now quit your whining!"
post #26 of 110
HTC == high tech copier
post #27 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lank View Post

HTC is out of Taiwan, Don't blame Korea for this one.

The Americans tend to mix up foreign countries. No wonder they don't even realize Apple is not always clean. Apple was made to pay Nokia and will be made to pay HTC, for copying foreign technology. When are Apple supporters going to realize that Apple has made very little innovation in telecommunications technology?
post #28 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

The Americans mix up foreign countries. No wonder they don't even realize Apple is not always clean. Apple was made to pay Nokia and will be made to pay HTC, for copying foreign technology.

uhh... wtf?
post #29 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

So HTC's idea of fair competition is to be able to copy everything Apple innovated with the iPhone? The iPhone comes out in 2007, jump starts the smartphone market, and now everybody is copying it. Schmidt comes off the Apple board and Android suddenly takes off. HTC grabs Android, photocopies the iPhone and expects Apple to just sit back and "play fair"? Not hardly.

That is how they got screwed in the PC wars.
post #30 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by holy_steven View Post

If all that there is to it is what you're saying "... they just wanted to pay the standard fee..." I don't see how any court would side against them with Nokia but the fact is that they settle they're paying and Nokia is still using whatever patents they said Nokia was using. I only see it as they knew they were going to loose in court period. As I said before the settlement "They will never win any of these lawsuits against mobile/hardware companies that have been doing cell phones when Apple sucked 10-15 years period" it takes more than icons/layouts/swipes to build a cell phone and the facts is that Apple is missing patents on the guts of what a cell phone is, patents that Nokia, HTC, Samsung, Motorola, Sony/Ericksson own and they don't want to just license to a competitor for only money. That's the reason Apple needed so badly the Nortel patents.

Apple refused to pay because they said the fees were too high and they didn't want to cross license anything. Of course the courts are going to say apple has to pay SOMETHING which they did but it wasn't the amount nokia wanted. Also, apple didn't sue nokia for using any patents so I'm not sure where you got that from.
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post #31 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lank View Post

HTC is out of Taiwan, Don't blame Korea for this one.

Right. After all, HTC is no Samsung.
post #32 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by holy_steven View Post

If all that there is to it is what you're saying "... they just wanted to pay the standard fee..." I don't see how any court would side against them with Nokia but the fact is that they settle they're paying and Nokia is still using whatever patents they said Nokia was using.

  • Not all of Nokia's patents were GSM patents, thus not all were covered by FRAND - and non-FRAND patents you can charge as much or little as you like. Even FRAND patents it can be complicated because generally they're part of larger cross-licensing agreements, which Apple didn't want to enter into.
  • Apple never really cared about Nokia's current infringement because Nokia is irrelevant in the smartphone sector right now, They didn't want to license their proprietary tech because it's always possible Nokia might not be in future. Apple's suit against Nokia was defensive, so naturally they dropped it as part of the settlement.
  • Nokia will soon be a WP7 shop and thus covered by Microsoft's licenses, Microsoft has full access to Apple's tech so the need for Nokia to play rough ended.

Basically you're wrong about absolutely everything.
post #33 of 110
Who said Apple was even competing , HA! HTC is a joke
post #34 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by freckledbruh View Post

Also, apple didn't sue nokia for using any patents so I'm not sure where you got that from.

They did, they countersued Nokia to exert leverage and get them to drop the case in much the same way as Samsung is currently counter-suing Apple. Just before the settlement there were dozens of suits in both directions in various different jurisdictions.
post #35 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudgazer View Post

  • Not all of Nokia's patents were GSM patents, thus not all were covered by FRAND - and non-FRAND patents you can charge as much or little as you like. Even FRAND patents it can be complicated because generally they're part of larger cross-licensing agreements, which Apple didn't want to enter into.
  • Apple never really cared about Nokia's current infringement because Nokia is irrelevant in the smartphone sector right now, They didn't want to license their proprietary tech because it's always possible Nokia might not be in future. Apple's suit against Nokia was defensive, so naturally they dropped it as part of the settlement.
  • Nokia will soon be a WP7 shop and thus covered by Microsoft's licenses, Microsoft has full access to Apple's tech so the need for Nokia to play rough ended.

Basically you're wrong about absolutely everything.

I completely forgot that apple filed a countersuit (for defensive purposes obviously). What I meant in my post was that apple never initiated any suits against nokia like samsung or htc.
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post #36 of 110
Just by looking at the telecommunication related patents that Apple is actually holding, you will realize how few innovation Apple has made in the telecommunication field, compared with Nokia, Samsung and the others.
post #37 of 110
OK, first off: What I know about this stuff could leave a thimble 2/3 empty, at best.

Secondly, it seems to me that everyone is doing this to everyone else these days. It's not like one company is horrible, and everyone else are angels. Every day I come here, and there's some new patent case.

Obviously, this is the way, partially, that people are doing business.

At least it seems to me.
post #38 of 110
While HTC designs the guts and assembly of their phones, they almost always hire American industrial design firms to come up with the overall look of the exterior of the product.
post #39 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

Just by looking at the telecommunication related patents that Apple is actually holding, you will realize how few innovation Apple has made in the telecommunication field, compared with Nokia, Samsung and the others.


Boy, that's a non sequitur if there ever was one.
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post #40 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I think if you reread the settlement terms, Nokia did get some licensing from Apple, altho it's claimed nothing that's critical to iOS.

Nokia got nothing from Apple wrt to cross-patent licensing.

Quote:
Espoo, Finland - Nokia announced that it has signed a patent license agreement with Apple. The agreement will result in settlement of all patent litigation between the companies, including the withdrawal by Nokia and Apple of their respective complaints to the US International Trade Commission.

The financial structure of the agreement consists of a one-time payment payable by Apple and on-going royalties to be paid by Apple to Nokia for the term of the agreement. The specific terms of the contract are confidential.

"We are very pleased to have Apple join the growing number of Nokia licensees," said Stephen Elop, president and chief executive officer of Nokia. "This settlement demonstrates Nokia's industry leading patent portfolio and enables us to focus on further licensing opportunities in the mobile communications market."

This is Nokia agreeing to standard terms on the original license Apple wanted to pay wrt GSM and other mobile patents Nokia attempted to add a tariff on that no other licensee had to pay and thus started the whole Apple using and not paying to use turf war.

Nothing in the language stipulates a cross-licensing agreement of patents. Try again.

In fact, when and if Nokia attempts another stunt those same withdrawn Apple patent violations will come back onto the table combined with newer patents that is rather clear Apple has been recently granted in which no one else in the world can even claim to have similar.

The quality of patents Apple is amassing for its entire product lines should leave large mounds of waste in the competition's shorts.

It's July and Apple's cleared 400 patents granted this year-to-date. I wouldn't be surprised if they clear 750 by the end of 2011. That would be nearly 200 more than 2010.

Unlike IBM with it's yearly 5,000+ Apple's patents are clearly materializing into massive revenues and profits.
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