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Religious Absurdity Vol 1: "I'm not gay. Go ahead, measure my asshole."

post #1 of 221
Thread Starter 
http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news...le_31238.shtml

A Spanish priest is removed from his parish by his bishop after claims are made that the priest had an affair with a 28 year old male seminarian. The bishop wants the priest to undergo psychotherapy to "remove the gay" and undergo an HIV test in order to reclaim his parish. In response, the priest says:

Quote:
Let them measure my anus and see if it is dilated.

Get with the program, religious nutters. Homosexuality exists. It exists in humans. It exists in nature. Go read a book (if you can, I have my doubts regarding some of you) on the subject. You know, with SCIENCE (the evil S word). Biological Exuberance is a good text on the subject.

It's 2011. Get out of the dark ages.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #2 of 221
0/10

the obvious flamebait is obvious

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #3 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

... priest ...

... dark ages.

Those go together ... hard to be the first without living in the second.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #4 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

0/10

the obvious flamebait is obvious

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #5 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

0/10

the obvious flamebait is obvious

Seriously, jazz, don't you think the priest's response was pure idiocy?

Of course that's not negating the fact that asking him to undergo therapy and also making the automatic gay->AIDS link are nearly as idiotic.
post #6 of 221
Quote:
Let them measure my anus and see if it is dilated

The best test to see if you're gay. "But it was only this one time... at band camp"
post #7 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Seriously, jazz, don't you think the priest's response was pure idiocy?

Of course that's not negating the fact that asking him to undergo therapy and also making the automatic gay->AIDS link are nearly as idiotic.

There is a lot of idiocy around the world. Here and everywhere else.

BR, you are quickly losing my willingness to read your posts lately. Whether you care or not. And I consider you a really good guy overall.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #8 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

There is a lot of idiocy around the world. Here and everywhere else.

And like it or not, a great deal of it comes from religious people. There's no fault in pointing that out.
post #9 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Seriously, jazz, don't you think the priest's response was pure idiocy?

Of course that's not negating the fact that asking him to undergo therapy and also making the automatic gay->AIDS link are nearly as idiotic.

Neither is all that idiotic. Sexual orientation is not an exact science to say the least. In terms of cause, there is evidence pointing to both biological and environmental factors.

Quote:
A recent study of all adult twins in Sweden (more than 7,600 twins)[8] found that same-sex behavior was explained by both heritable factors and individual-specific environmental sources (such as prenatal environment, experience with illness and trauma, as well as peer groups, and sexual experiences), while influences of shared-environment variables such as familial environment and societal attitudes had a weaker, but significant effect.

This is one reason why I, for one, don't exactly equate gay rights with civil rights (or race rights, one could say). There is absolutely zero environmental influence on one's race. It cannot be chosen any more than hair color, eye color or height. But there can be an element of choice in sexual orientation. My personal perspective is that the vast majority of gays do not "choose" their orientation...but some do. Certain religious people (for lack of a better term) take this perspective to another level, claiming that gays can be "cured." Inherent in their arguments is that being gay is all (or mostly) about choice. I reject their position, but I can understand how they get there.

As for the gay-AIDS link: Really? HIV occurrence in the gay community is far higher than in heterosexuals. Also from wiki:

Quote:
While in the United States, "men who have had sex with men since 1977 have an HIV prevalence (the total number of cases of a disease that are present in a population at a specific point in time) 60 times higher than the general population".[32]

In 2007, the largest estimated proportion of HIV/AIDS diagnoses among adults and adolescents in the U.S. were men who have sex with men (MSM). This category accounted for 53% of the overall diagnoses and 71% among men.

And as for the accusations themselves, they are made within the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church considers homosexuality a sin. I understand that many disagree with this (as do I), but that is their belief. He's not required to be a priest. That is, he knew full well what the Church Doctrine was when he became a priest. He cannot even marry a woman. There is even debate about whether priests can masturbate.

Now, I undersand that you, BR and various others find these views completely fucking insane. That's another matter.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #10 of 221
Thread Starter 
Why should that sort of belief deserve any respect whatsoever? The idea that someone should be "cured" of their gayness is abhorrent. "Oh, but it's just their belief" is merely tacit approval of those awful ideas.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #11 of 221
Re. choice:

Perhaps gay people choose same sex partners because they are attracted to them... in the same way that heterosexuals choose partners of the opposite sex because...guess what.... they are attracted to them.

What is so wrong, or immoral, about attraction, provided the person is not a minor?
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #12 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Why should that sort of belief deserve any respect whatsoever? The idea that someone should be "cured" of their gayness is abhorrent. "Oh, but it's just their belief" is merely tacit approval of those awful ideas.

If you believe sex and who you desire to have it with is merely a function of genes, then what do you propose to do with those who still express sexual desires that society does not deem acceptable? Homosexuality was once deemed deviant. Are you just unenlightened because you don't endorse polyamory, bestiality, etc?

Where do you draw the line between free will and gene expression?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #13 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Re. choice:

Perhaps gay people choose same sex partners because they are attracted to them... in the same way that heterosexuals choose partners of the opposite sex because...guess what.... they are attracted to them.

What is so wrong, or immoral, about attraction, provided the person is not a minor?

Why is it wrong if it is a consenting minor as long as everyone is just expressing their genes? Age of consent is a societal construct.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #14 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Why is it wrong if it is a consenting minor as long as everyone is just expressing their genes? Age of consent is a societal construct.

It is. But I think most of us agree that there are many solid reasons for society to reject children/minors' involvement in sexual activity... regardless of orientation.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #15 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

It is. But I think most of us agree that there are many solid reasons for society to reject children/minors' involvement in sexual activity... regardless of orientation.

Most of us in agreement doesn't matter nor does framing the bias as "solid."

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #16 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

And like it or not, a great deal of it comes from religious people. There's no fault in pointing that out.

And like it or not, a great deal comes from white people, is there fault in pointing that out?

And Like it or not, a great deal comes from American People, is there fault in pointing that out?

And Like it or not, a great deal come from people posting on the internet, is there fault in pointing that out?

Should I go on?

Idiots are everywhere, religious, non-religious, white, American, European, internet users, etc...

The issue is when one focuses solely on one group nearly to the exclusion of all others. BR has nearly reached that point. He is willing to call idiot as side notes to other groups brought up to be "fair" in his hatred, but look at the bulk of his posts. They all practically start, end, and revolve around others religious beliefs.

But I fear that my position will be sneered at and brushed aside as "one religious nut defending another". Pick your brand of bigotry and display it here proudly.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #17 of 221
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

And like it or not, a great deal comes from white people, is there fault in pointing that out?

And Like it or not, a great deal comes from American People, is there fault in pointing that out?

And Like it or not, a great deal come from people posting on the internet, is there fault in pointing that out?

Should I go on?

No, you should not go on, unfortunately, because you are missing the point.

The bigotry against gay people is not motivated by the color of one's skin.

The bigotry against gay people is not motivated by the country of one's origin.

The bigotry against gay people is (overwhelmingly) motivated by one's religious beliefs.

You are confusing correlation with causation. Sure, there are many old white American males who hate gays. But it's not because they are old or white or American. It's because those old white Americans also are mostly some flavor of Christian. And the leaders of that flavor tell those old white males to hate on the gays.


By the way, Noah. I'm not prejudging religious belief. I'm judging it. There's a significant difference. Based on the evidence available to me, it is my conclusion that religious thought is detrimental to humanity's progress. I'm also of an oppressed minority (the most reviled minority in America), so my fixation on religious issues stems from being denied a truly equal seat at the table of American politics.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #18 of 221
What is the bigotry against the religious motivated by?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #19 of 221
Thread Starter 
Bigotry implies prejudice. I do not prejudge religious thought. I judge it.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #20 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

What is the bigotry against the religious motivated by?

Perhaps but it's generally motivated by a frustration with grown adults who make decisions based on fairy tales. I'd much rather they make an effort to learn the truth and try to encourage society to live based on what is real, rather than what is imagined.

Will that work for you ?
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #21 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

Perhaps but it's generally motivated by a frustration with grown adults who make decisions based on fairy tales. I'd much rather they make an effort to learn the truth and try to encourage society to live based on what is real, rather than what is imagined.

Will that work for you ?

Define real.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #22 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Bigotry implies prejudice. I do not prejudge religious thought. I judge it.

You judge it before it is expressed and you tell others what they must think since you label them religious. You are definitely prejudiced with regard to religion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

Perhaps but it's generally motivated by a frustration with grown adults who make decisions based on fairy tales. I'd much rather they make an effort to learn the truth and try to encourage society to live based on what is real, rather than what is imagined.

Will that work for you ?

Define grown adult. All the "grown adults" I see running our government are racking up trillions in debts to finance their fairy tales of green jobs and utopian visions. The religious nutcases cost me much less money and are much easier to convince to leave me alone. The same people complain about Catholic priests molesting little boys are those who are silent while the TSA molests all of us daily.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #23 of 221
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Define real.

I can tell you what's not real: magic golden tablets that can be read and seen by only one person and upon the first "translation" being hidden/destroyed a second "exact translation" is unable to be reproduced.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #24 of 221
That request was not directed at you, BR.

But thank you for taking another opportunity to specifically attack and mock my religion.

To further show that you do not know as much as you think you do about my religion (or apparently any religion for that matter), the plates were seen and handled by 11 people (not including Joseph Smith), who all signed written statements attesting to the fact.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #25 of 221
Thread Starter 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Mormon_witnesses

And the criticism of those alleged witnesses:

Quote:
Critics of the Latter Day Saint movement—from late nineteenth-century clergymen to Mark Twain to modern agnostics, evangelical Christians, and Mormons who have been disciplined by the LDS Church—argue that the testimonies of the witnesses cannot be taken at face value.

According to Grant Palmer, the Book of Mormon witnesses had a "nineteenth-century magical mindset" rather than "a rationalist perspective." They believed in what was called "second sight. Traditionally, this included the ability to see spirits and their dwelling places within the local hills and elsewhere."[7] A number of the witnesses possessed and used seer stones; Oliver Cowdery was a rodsman.[8] As Tufts University professor John L. Brooke has observed, many of the earliest Mormons were "very much attuned to the supernatural powers of witchcraft."[9] "Far removed from our own modern empiricism, the world view of the witnesses is difficult for us to grasp," and thus it is less impressive that "three signatories to the Book of Mormon saw and heard an angel."[10]

All the witnesses were family, close friends, or financial backers of Joseph Smith. Cowdery, Page, and the five Whitmers were related by marriage.[11] Mark Twain later joked, "I could not feel more satisfied and at rest if the entire Whitmer family had testified."[12]

Martin Harris was said to have stated that the Eight Witnesses never saw the plates, and "hesitated to sign that instrument for that reason, but were persuaded to do it."[13] Although Harris continued to testify to the truth of the Book of Mormon even when he was estranged from the church, at least during the early years of the movement, he "seems to have repeatedly admitted the internal, subjective nature of his visionary experience."[14]

In Doctrine and Covenants 5: 11-14, revealed to Joseph Smith in March 1829, the Three Witnesses are told that they will be given power to see the golden plates, "to behold and view these things...and to none else will I grant this power, to receive this same testimony among this generation." In 2 Nephi 27:13, a translation completed in the late spring or early summer of the same year, the Three are told that "none other...shall view it, save it be a few according to the will of God," thus allowing for the inclusion of the Eight Witnesses.[15]

Joseph Smith later impugned the integrity of at least four of the Witnesses before they left or were expelled from the Church: "Such characters as McLellin, John Whitmer, David Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, are too mean to mention; and we had liked to have forgotten them."[16]

After Smith's death, James Strang, claiming to be Smith's chosen successor, also produced buried plates and the testimony of eleven witnesses to their authenticity. All living witnesses to the Book of Mormon (except possibly Cowdery)—three of the Whitmers, Martin Harris, and Hiram Page—accepted at least briefly Strang's "leadership, angelic call, metal plates, and his translation of these plates as authentic."[17]

Years later, Mormon leader Brigham Young said that some "witnesses of the Book of Mormon, who handled the plates and conversed with the angels of God, were afterwards left to doubt and to disbelieve that they had ever seen an angel."[18]

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #26 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I can tell you what's not real: magic golden tablets that can be read and seen by only one person and upon the first "translation" being hidden/destroyed a second "exact translation" is unable to be reproduced.

You know what else isn't real? A successful collectivist state like you keep advocating for all of us to adopt.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #27 of 221
Thread Starter 
But there are plenty of successful states that are much farther to the left of us and that actually treat its citizens with dignity and respect, not letting people lose their homes because they got cancer. Hyperbole much?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #28 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Mormon_witnesses

And the criticism of those alleged witnesses:

None of them ever rescinded their written statements, and they all testified of the divine origins of the Book of Mormon until their deaths.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #29 of 221
Thread Starter 
Quote:
All the witnesses were family, close friends, or financial backers of Joseph Smith. Cowdery, Page, and the five Whitmers were related by marriage.[11] Mark Twain later joked, "I could not feel more satisfied and at rest if the entire Whitmer family had testified."[12]

Yup, people with vested interests don't lie. Never.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #30 of 221
Thread Starter 
Anyway, back to the topic. Gay "re-education" is an abominable practice--and it is overwhelmingly religiously motivated. That's one of many reasons why I vehemently oppose religious thought.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #31 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Yup, people with vested interests don't lie. Never.

Think about this for a minute, BR. Would you show such things to people you didn't trust?

And Mark Twain overlooks the fact that most of these men later left the church and were at odds with Joseph Smith for various reasons. What possible "vested interests" could they have had to not rescind their statements then?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #32 of 221
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Think about this for a minute, BR. Would you show such things to people you didn't trust?

And Mark Twain overlooks the fact that most of these men later left the church and were at odds with Joseph Smith for various reasons. What possible "vested interests" could they have had to not rescind their statements then?

You'll figure out any way to twist reality to support your view here. There's a preponderance of evidence against the claims made by Joseph Smith.

Quote:
After Smith's death, James Strang, claiming to be Smith's chosen successor, also produced buried plates and the testimony of eleven witnesses to their authenticity. All living witnesses to the Book of Mormon (except possibly Cowdery)three of the Whitmers, Martin Harris, and Hiram Pageaccepted at least briefly Strang's "leadership, angelic call, metal plates, and his translation of these plates as authentic."[17]

Oh look, many of those same witnesses claimed the same sort of divine nonsense later on after Smith's death.

Anyway, if you actually gave two shits about your religion, you'd go to exmormon.org and really read through all the evidence against the claims made by Joseph Smith.

Back to the topic, what's your opinion on "praying away the gay"?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #33 of 221
I'm not interested in anti-mormon propaganda, thanks. It wouldn't work on me, anyway. My faith is not based on Joseph Smith or the Witnesses. The fact remains that none of them denied their testimonies of having seen the plates and of the divine origins of the Book of Mormon, and that your original statement that led to this tangent discussion was incorrect.

As to your other question, I believe that people can and do change their behavior and the way they think all the time. Whether they do so through prayer or hypnosis or self-help books or whatever is up to them.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #34 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Define real.

Something that has measurable, reproducible supporting evidence.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #35 of 221
This made me curious - does anal sex dilate your anus? Probably not, it turns out -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_sex#Physical_damage
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #36 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

Something that has measurable, reproducible supporting evidence.

Let's assume that I specifically thought about my cell phone service provider earlier today. Random thought. Just popped into my head.

Assuming this is the first time I have mentioned anything about it to anyone else, can you prove that I did, in fact, have that thought?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #37 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

But there are plenty of successful states that are much farther to the left of us and that actually treat its citizens with dignity and respect, not letting people lose their homes because they got cancer. Hyperbole much?

Interesting that these bankrupt countries with a broken currency are deemed successful by you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Anyway, back to the topic. Gay "re-education" is an abominable practice--and it is overwhelmingly religiously motivated. That's one of many reasons why I vehemently oppose religious thought.

I asked about other forms of re-education and attempts to prevent recidivism with regard to sex crimes. You've ignore the point completely. You prefer to harp on your religious point rather than deal with what your own beliefs attempt to address. Why is the church attempting to reeducate a gay priest a laughable bit of non-thinking based off a fairy tail, but the state attempting to reeducate a pedophile a bit of proper social science? If sexual desire is genetically programmed and outside the influence of nurture, then this holds true for more than just homosexuality and heterosexuality right?

It is quite possible to show bigamy, incest and reproduction without regard to consent or whatever we declare to be maturity is prevalent throughout nature. If what is nature is right, the how do you continue to endorse these prejudiced action and what fairy tales are you using to support your beliefs?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #38 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

No, you should not go on, unfortunately, because you are missing the point.

The bigotry against gay people is not motivated by the color of one's skin.

The bigotry against gay people is not motivated by the country of one's origin.

The bigotry against gay people is (overwhelmingly) motivated by one's religious beliefs.

You are confusing correlation with causation. Sure, there are many old white American males who hate gays. But it's not because they are old or white or American. It's because those old white Americans also are mostly some flavor of Christian. And the leaders of that flavor tell those old white males to hate on the gays.


By the way, Noah. I'm not prejudging religious belief. I'm judging it. There's a significant difference. Based on the evidence available to me, it is my conclusion that religious thought is detrimental to humanity's progress. I'm also of an oppressed minority (the most reviled minority in America), so my fixation on religious issues stems from being denied a truly equal seat at the table of American politics.

The thread in context:
I wrote:
There is a lot of idiocy around the world. Here and everywhere else.

Tonton Replied:
And like it or not, a great deal of it comes from religious people. There's no fault in pointing that out.

Not bigotry, idiocy. Your tangent is something else entirely. But since you have prejudged what you thought I was saying, it is understandable. \
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #39 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Let's assume that I specifically thought about my cell phone service provider earlier today. Random thought. Just popped into my head.

Assuming this is the first time I have mentioned anything about it to anyone else, can you prove that I did, in fact, have that thought?


Curious... are you implying that the concept of a god is nothing more than a thought ?



(I'll assume you've been an iPhone user since day 1. ) ... I can certainly prove that WHAT you claimed to think about is real... AT&T... plenty of supporting evidence for the existence of AT&T.

Just because your brain thought of something, doesn't make that something real. I can think of Dragons, SantaClause, Unicorns, speeding tickets, airplanes, animals that existed millions of years ago... some of those "things" that I thought about can be proved to be real... to exist (or have existed)... others have no supporting evidence whatsoever... the thoughts were certainly real (insofar as certain electrical impulses flitted through my brain, causing me to perceive those thoughts), but the things themselves aren't necessarily real just because I thought of/about them.
The human brain is the source of all sorts of fictions in our world/society.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #40 of 221
NYTimes.com

Who here can defend monogamy without using made up societal standards related to norms?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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