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The Murdoch Scandal

post #1 of 164
Thread Starter 
Feel free to discuss the News of the World (and Murdoch) scandal here. It has now turned into an FBI investigation and Murdoch's company possibly broke federal laws in the US (not IN LONDON as the video below would have you think) by bribing British cops.

Have a peek at this Foxplanation:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_899934.html

Efforts at mind control. Borg creation programming in practice.

 

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post #2 of 164
The government investigating its own propaganda machine? Should be entertaining, at least.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #3 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Feel free to discuss the News of the World (and Murdoch) scandal here. It has now turned into an FBI investigation and Murdoch's company possibly broke federal laws in the US (not IN LONDON as the video below would have you think) by bribing British cops.

Have a peek at this Foxplanation:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_899934.html

Efforts at mind control. Borg creation programming in practice.

lol perfect for their viewers.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #4 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

The government investigating its own propaganda machine? Should be entertaining, at least.

splutter

I'm sorry, what?

You think News Corp / News International are your government's propaganda machine?

Mein gott.

Do you really think this? Really?

Please tell me you don't really think this.
post #5 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

splutter

I'm sorry, what?

You think News Corp / News International are your government's propaganda machine?

Mein gott.

Do you really think this? Really?

Please tell me you don't really think this.

Well, at the very least, Fox News (which they own) is a regular advocate, apologist and...dare I say...propagandist for the state's wars, et al.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #6 of 164
Thread Starter 
Anybody watching Faux on a regular basis to see how they are covering the scandal?


The CEO of Dow Jones just resigned because he was at NoTW at the time of the hacking.
Looks like Pier Morgan might be caught up in it, too.

This is going to be interesting.

So are the spins/explanations/justifications that will come from Faux and the Fox Right.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #7 of 164
Imagine the scandals that would come out of a thorough investigation and audit of the Federal Reserve.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #8 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Imagine the scandals that would come out of a thorough investigation and audit of the Federal Reserve.

Or NPR.
post #9 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Imagine the scandals that would come out of a thorough investigation and audit of the Federal Reserve.

Or Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
post #10 of 164
Murdoch is a conservative, so presumably is strict about morals. So I expected a strong reaction after these revelations.

But I actually think he might have gone too far. I would have fired the reporters responsible, fired the editor and offered a public apology and financial compensation to the girl's family. But he closed the entire paper, one that had been around for 168 years, bit of a shame. I guess he judged the corruption was endemic.

Edit: he also today fired Rebekah Brooks, who was editor at the time the hacking tool place (2002) but was now head of his British division. That I can agree with.
post #11 of 164
It is my understanding that he had already planned to close the entire paper before this all came about. So it's a bit of an empty gesture.

But in the grand scheme of things, it's all pretty meaningless.

The U.S. government can and does spy on its own citizens. It also fondles, gropes, and exposes them to radiation in airports.

All under the auspices of "fighting terrorism".

And this same government is going to investigate a media outlet for hacking cell phones? Really?

It's like Bill Clinton chastising someone for cheating on his wife.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #12 of 164
I've been following this, and am starting to wonder a few things:

1. Is it really surprising that Murdoch's competitors are trashing News Corp mercilessly? They are kicking the hell out of the "mainstream media," particularly in cable news.

2. What do those competitors really think is going to happen? Do they really think they are going to take down Fox News Channel, for example?

3. Why the talk of indictments of such high profile people, right up to News Corp itself. Does anyone really believe that it was News Corp policy to do this phone hacking? Does anyone think that Murdoch even knew about it?

4. From everything I've heard, these actions were limited to mid-level managers and reporters at one newspaper. Why is the British government going FULL RETARD with this, killing News Corps' purchase of Sky, bringing in Gordon Brown, etc? Gee, I'm SURE it's not revenge or anything. </sarcasm>
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post #13 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Why is the British government going FULL RETARD with this

I don't understand that either. Perhaps there's more animosity between the press and the government over there than in other countries. It's quite scary in a way, the word censorship comes to mind.
post #14 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I don't understand that either. Perhaps there's more animosity between the press and the government over there than in other countries. It's quite scary in a way, the word censorship comes to mind.

Yeah. I was immediately surprised about how involved Parliament was. Does anyone know if that kind of thing is common? It was like a tidal wave. I don't know if it's just hatred of News Corp and Murdoch, or like I said...revenge for past coverage. Anyone more familiar with the way these things work in the UK that could shed some light on it?
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post #15 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Yeah. I was immediately surprised about how involved Parliament was. Does anyone know if that kind of thing is common? It was like a tidal wave. I don't know if it's just hatred of News Corp and Murdoch, or like I said...revenge for past coverage. Anyone more familiar with the way these things work in the UK that could shed some light on it?

I was about to write "OMG, this is turning into another GW thread!"...but I won't now that someone from the right has admitted that they've absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

It's truly scary how people can dismiss this in such a manner. NI has exerted it's power to disenfranchise the public at governmental level and engaged in exploiting families at highly sensitive moments in their lives. Their power has been brutal and it's been fully known by the heads how much they've twisted and broken the law. They didn't gag the investigations for nothing. They knew, we know and I just hope they don't have enough power to stop the law from joining the dots with prosecutions.

Sorry if I'm being perceived as being rude, but sometimes people here deserve it, no?
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #16 of 164
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

NI has exerted it's power to disenfranchise the public at governmental level and engaged in exploiting families at highly sensitive moments in their lives. Their power has been brutal and it's been fully known by the heads how much they've twisted and broken the law. They didn't gag the investigations for nothing. They knew, we know and I just hope they don't have enough power to stop the law from joining the dots with prosecutions.

They show a contempt for morals.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #17 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Murdoch is a conservative, so presumably is strict about morals.



Oh, my...
post #18 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I was about to write "OMG, this is turning into another GW thread!"...but I won't now that someone from the right has admitted that they've absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

It's truly scary how people can dismiss this in such a manner. NI has exerted it's power to disenfranchise the public at governmental level and engaged in exploiting families at highly sensitive moments in their lives. Their power has been brutal and it's been fully known by the heads how much they've twisted and broken the law. They didn't gag the investigations for nothing. They knew, we know and I just hope they don't have enough power to stop the law from joining the dots with prosecutions.

Sorry if I'm being perceived as being rude, but sometimes people here deserve it, no?

Nope, you're just being rude. Thanks.
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post #19 of 164
The UK and Japan are some of the countries where in the past decade I've gone, WTF?

For the UK, living most of my life in the former British Colonies, many of us hold the UK, especially England, in such high regard.

But the fantasy was shattered when I actually went to London in 2008 for two and a half months on a work-and-travel visa. Sure, some things were cool like seeing Buckingham Palace, the Regent St Apple Store, and the LOTR musical. But day to day life, it ain't all peachy in Britain.

The UK's involvement in the Iraq war, riding the financial system into the grave in 2008, extremely conservative austerity measures of the latest government, and now this News Corp stuff engulfing so many people... Let's just say part of Harry Potter and the Royal Wedding's success and popularity is because it reignites the ideals and fantasies of Britain for the British and people around the world. The reality of life in the UK can be quite, quite different.
post #20 of 164
"Full retard"?

This is what happened.

The scandal includes 4,000 people. FOUR THOUSAND.

When it was first uncovered, News International / News Corp got testy and said it was restricted to one reporter. There was an inquiry in 2006, and Brooks and Hinton of News International lied to Parliament, in Parliament.

It turns out it was institutional.

The Metropolitan Police conducted an enquiry and found nothing.

And then it turned out that the Police had been taking payments from Murdoch's journalists for information, so they'd closed the inquiry down.

When it was discovered last week that they'd hacked the voicemail of Milly Dowler's phone, and the voicemail of our war dead, and of the families of the murdered girls from Soham, and of 7/7 terrorist victims, and of the Royal Family, the whole nation was disgusted.

All those politicians who have had to take policy advice from Rupert Murdoch (Blair famously flew to Australia before his election) or face the wrath of his papers, finally said "Fuck this: let's give the public what it actually wants and needs rather than protecting Murdoch," and the past thirty years of self-loathing and corruption set fire to the House.

It's fantastic.
post #21 of 164
If it turns out that Murdoch journalists have indeed been hacking the telephones of 9/11 victims, as it's been suggested, you'll see a similar thing happen in America.

Anyone who thinks the British are "going too far" needs to understand the depth of public anger and the relief that our politicians have that Murdoch isn't untouchable anymore.

If you're lucky, the same thing'll happen in America.
post #22 of 164


Conservative morals, indeed.
post #23 of 164
Oh, by the way.

I should also explain that Rebeckah Brook's replacement as Editor of News of the World, right when the hacking was at its height, was Andy Coulson.

When he left the News of the World, the Conservative Prime Minister made him Director of Communications for the Conservative Party and then for 10 Downing Street.

He resigned after a related scandal. Last week he was arrested.

To my right wing friends on this board, asking for explanations as to what's going on in Britain, MAYBE YOU SHOULD GET YOUR NEWS FROM A NEWS SOURCE THAT GIVES YOU NEWS.
post #24 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Feel free to discuss the News of the World (and Murdoch) scandal here. It has now turned into an FBI investigation and Murdoch's company possibly broke federal laws in the US (not IN LONDON as the video below would have you think) by bribing British cops.

Have a peek at this Foxplanation:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_899934.html

Efforts at mind control. Borg creation programming in practice.

If this is true and these phones were hacked from the 9-11 victims Murdoch should be put on trial with the rest of his cronies.
post #25 of 164
Thread Starter 
CNN has a good timeline here. Started with hacking the royal family's communications.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/16...world-scandal/



And this is good:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...t-Murdoch.html

Among the people possibly /probably hacked:

The Royal Family
David Beckham
Paul McCartney
Hugh Grant

The police problem is crazy, as is the email trail with the lawyer.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #26 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

The UK and Japan are some of the countries where in the past decade I've gone, WTF?

For the UK, living most of my life in the former British Colonies, many of us hold the UK, especially England, in such high regard.

But the fantasy was shattered when I actually went to London in 2008 for two and a half months on a work-and-travel visa. Sure, some things were cool like seeing Buckingham Palace, the Regent St Apple Store, and the LOTR musical. But day to day life, it ain't all peachy in Britain.

I believe that.

Quote:

The UK's involvement in the Iraq war, riding the financial system into the grave in 2008, extremely conservative austerity measures of the latest government, and now this News Corp stuff engulfing so many people... Let's just say part of Harry Potter and the Royal Wedding's success and popularity is because it reignites the ideals and fantasies of Britain for the British and people around the world. The reality of life in the UK can be quite, quite different.

1. What does the Iraq war have to do with anything?
2. What do you mean by "riding the financial system into the grave?"
3. What do you mean by "extremely conservative?" Politically, or not enough being done?

I've never been there, but from what I understand there are several large problems in the UK that include: An inability to control spending on social programs (NHS comes to mind), many thousands of extremist Muslims living in a sub-culture apart from the mainstream and funding terrorism (as well as those that are sympathetic or neutral in the cause), extremely high taxes, extremely high cost of living. Thoughts?





Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

"Full retard"?


From the movie "Tropic Thunder." I just think it's a funny expression. It's not meant to imply actual mental disability.
Quote:

This is what happened.

The scandal includes 4,000 people. FOUR THOUSAND.

Link?

Quote:

When it was first uncovered, News International / News Corp got testy and said it was restricted to one reporter. There was an inquiry in 2006, and Brooks and Hinton of News International lied to Parliament, in Parliament.

Link?

Quote:

It turns out it was institutional.

Prove that, please.

Quote:

The Metropolitan Police conducted an enquiry and found nothing.

And then it turned out that the Police had been taking payments from Murdoch's journalists for information, so they'd closed the inquiry down.

See above.

Quote:

When it was discovered last week that they'd hacked the voicemail of Milly Dowler's phone, and the voicemail of our war dead, and of the families of the murdered girls from Soham, and of 7/7 terrorist victims, and of the Royal Family, the whole nation was disgusted.

As they should be. The question is "who is they?" Is there evidence Murdoch's other media properties did this? How many reporters did it? Which managerial staff knew?

Quote:

All those politicians who have had to take policy advice from Rupert Murdoch (Blair famously flew to Australia before his election) or face the wrath of his papers, finally said "Fuck this: let's give the public what it actually wants and needs rather than protecting Murdoch," and the past thirty years of self-loathing and corruption set fire to the House.

It's fantastic.

Yeah! Fuck that guy! So basically, it's revenge then...which was on of my theories. Media competition and scorned government officials are using this hacking scandal (which is obviously wrong and criminal) and inflating it for other purposes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

If it turns out that Murdoch journalists have indeed been hacking the telephones of 9/11 victims, as it's been suggested, you'll see a similar thing happen in America.

I wouldn't be on that. Our system is different. The only way that would happen is if other New Corp properties (such as FNC for example) had done that. If it was only the News of the World, it's not going to amount to anything.

Quote:

Anyone who thinks the British are "going too far" needs to understand the depth of public anger and the relief that our politicians have that Murdoch isn't untouchable anymore.

If you're lucky, the same thing'll happen in America.

Did I say I thought they were going too far? I was just asking why there was so much outrage. As for the last comment, you pretty much sum up another theory of mine: Hatred of Murdoch in general, mostly because of the fact he and his properties are primarily conservative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Oh, by the way.

I should also explain that Rebeckah Brook's replacement as Editor of News of the World, right when the hacking was at its height, was Andy Coulson.

When he left the News of the World, the Conservative Prime Minister made him Director of Communications for the Conservative Party and then for 10 Downing Street.

He resigned after a related scandal. Last week he was arrested.

To my right wing friends on this board, asking for explanations as to what's going on in Britain, MAYBE YOU SHOULD GET YOUR NEWS FROM A NEWS SOURCE THAT GIVES YOU NEWS.

Let me guess...like [URL="http://zombietime.com/reuters_photo_fraud/"]Reuters? [/URL. Or maybe the AP? . No wait....how about BBC?. The fact is that all of those sources are biased....very biased. You simply don't like the fact that Murdoch's properties are conservative ones. In the US, we have a handful of conservative outlets, most notably being FNC (which almost always presents opposing view), the Wall Street Journal, The Washington Times and the New York Post. In contrast, we have the following on the Left:

The LA Times
The New York Times
The Houston Chronicle
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
The San Francisco Chronicle
The Philadelphia Inquirer
MSNBC (does not even present opposing views on most programming)
CNN (not as far Left as MSNBC, but definitely liberal)
CBS News
ABC News
NPR
PBS
The Washington Post
Newsweek
NBC News

Just to name a few....


Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

If this is true and these phones were hacked from the 9-11 victims Murdoch should be put on trial with the rest of his cronies.

Uh....what if he nor the rest of News Corps had anything to do with it?
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post #27 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

1. What does the Iraq war have to do with anything?
2. What do you mean by "riding the financial system into the grave?"
3. What do you mean by "extremely conservative?" Politically, or not enough being done?

1.
About the Iraq war I think the UK didn't need to get involved. It has been a drain on their finances, overall resources, led to loss of UK lives and has made the UK even more a target of terrorism. The inquiry is ongoing: http://www.iraqinquiry.org.uk/

http://thinkprogress.org/security/20...inquiry-blair/
– Blair was told prior to the war by his intelligence services that Iraq did not have access to weapons of mass destruction.
– The Blair government had decided to support the US-led war up to a year before the invasion.
– Blair was told the Iraq War would be illegal under international law by his attorney general.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14159483
In testimony to the inquiry last year, former MI5 head Baroness Manningham-Buller said Mr Blair's government had used "fragmentary" intelligence, largely from MI6, to make the case for war.

2.
The UK has been partly responsible for the global financial crisis in many ways. Just some articles, for illustrative not definitive purposes:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...nancial-crisis
http://www.independent.ie/business/i...f-2074919.html
Remember it was Northern Rock that is widely considered as a catalyst in the financial meltdown, though of course not the sole culprit:
http://ihrrblog.org/2010/07/27/the-r...ancial-crisis/

3.
Conservative as in politically and economically, eg:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...ns-survey.html

http://www.thedailybanter.com/tdb/20...ng-badly-.html
Growth is falling, unemployment and inflation are rising and consumer confidence has collapsed to levels lower than it reached in the depths of the recession in 2009. Rather than evidence of an "expansionary fiscal contraction", we are observing a "contractionary fiscal contraction". New data shows that all of the countries that have im plemented fiscal austerity policies experienced negative GDP growth rates in the fourth quarter of 2010: Greece (-1.4 per cent), Iceland (-1.5 per cent), Ireland (-1.6 per cent), Portugal (-0.3 per cent) and the UK (-0.5 per cent).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I've never been there, but from what I understand there are several large problems in the UK that include: An inability to control spending on social programs (NHS comes to mind), many thousands of extremist Muslims living in a sub-culture apart from the mainstream and funding terrorism (as well as those that are sympathetic or neutral in the cause), extremely high taxes, extremely high cost of living. Thoughts?

Spending is an issue, the government has implemented "austerity measures" but it may or may not be working depending on your view.

Extremist Muslims are an issue. But remember interestingly in 2006 alone only 70% of Londoners were classified as "White": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...ndon#Ethnicity I cannot comment on the ethnic or religious situation because I wasn't there long enough, but personally it felt like 1 out of every 2 Londoners were continental European, "Asian" (Indian, etc.), "Oriental" (Chinese, etc.), Middle Eastern or Black. Of these some are 1st generation migrants, some 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation.

Taxes and cost of living are not outrageous if you are earning in £, compared to the rest of Europe and "centre-left" countries like Australia and New Zealand. The issue right now in the UK or since mid-2008 are jobs, specifically lack thereof.
post #28 of 164
Instead of asking me for links, SDW, just use google.

It is is on every single news site that provides news. Providing you with links is like you asking me to prove the events of Watergate. They're in the public domain. They're everywhere. Don't be an arse.

4,000 victims of hacking:

From the right wing newspaper The Telegraph


and another, from thousands across both sides of the political spectrum, the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14067935?postId=109618144

There are thousands of links like this. Are you too lazy or too scared of Team Evil taking a hit to find them?

You want me to prove NI lied to Parliament?

Here is video of the first inquiry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BibxqfYiOqI

Here is Rebekah Brooks' letter to the CHAIRMAN of the Parliamentary enquiry, John Whittingdale MP.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/inte...h-brooks-email

Again, there are thousands of pages of reporting and commentary on this, and if you got your news from somewhere serious you could read them yourself.

Prove it was institutional at the NotW?

For fuck's sake, SDW, they hacked 4,000 people and closed the frigging newspaper down.

But all right. "Instutitional criminality at the News of the World":

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-happened.html

MP Tom Watson: Institutional Criminality:

http://www.publicservice.co.uk/news_story.asp?id=16865

Here is five minutes of the debate from the Houses of Parliament this week.

http://youtu.be/gnv_AuQ0XxU

I watched the whole debate. You can too, if you like. The evidence is totally overwhelming. You could use the internet and find out for yourself. There are thousands of pages of analysis and a few hours of discussion in Parliament. It is not 'secret', it is agreed and discussed across left and right in the House.

Met Police took payments? The directly reported words of Sir Paul Stephenson, head of the Met Police, good enough for you? "Officers took payments from the NotW":

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/868507-p...or-information

There are hundreds of different stories like this. Police in charge of the enquiry were the same ones providing NI journalists with information. It was discussed in the enquiry LAST WEEK in the HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT and STREAMED LIVE ON THE INTERNET.

Get your news from somewhere where they tell you the news, all right, and you won't look foolish asking for evidence which everyone, everywhere, knows.

You don't need to support Team Evil this time. Your team broke the law, they covered it up, they lied, and now they're fucked. You can support hacking the telephones of British war dead with journalists paid by Rupert Murdoch... or you can cleave to the last shred of decency you have and say "Actually, my team are pretty fucking disgusting this time."
post #29 of 164
Oh, yes, SDW.

You only like right wing news sources?

Try The Telegraph, the house paper of the Conservative Party.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...t-Murdoch.html

Your conservative heroes are drowning in shit.

It's a bit like what happened to the Republican president Richard Nixon, isn't it.
post #30 of 164
"Rebekah Brooks has been arrested by police investigating allegations of phone hacking by the News of the World and allegations that police officers were bribed to leak sensitive information."
~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...ng-allegations
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #31 of 164
Thread Starter 
That makes ten arrests... so much for the lone wolf theory.

But, this also might be a way for the police to keep her from answering parliament; she may not be able to attend the meeting she was called to?

 

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post #32 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

1.
About the Iraq war I think the UK didn't need to get involved. It has been a drain on their finances, overall resources, led to loss of UK lives and has made the UK even more a target of terrorism. The inquiry is ongoing: http://www.iraqinquiry.org.uk/

http://thinkprogress.org/security/20...inquiry-blair/
Blair was told prior to the war by his intelligence services that Iraq did not have access to weapons of mass destruction.
The Blair government had decided to support the US-led war up to a year before the invasion.
Blair was told the Iraq War would be illegal under international law by his attorney general.


Honestly, I can't accept anything from ThinkProgress as valid, just as many would not accept things from Rushlimbaugh.com as valid. Either way, the larger point is that the war is not "making life hard" or creating civil unrest. Agreed?
Quote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14159483
In testimony to the inquiry last year, former MI5 head Baroness Manningham-Buller said Mr Blair's government had used "fragmentary" intelligence, largely from MI6, to make the case for war.

All intelligence is "fragmentary."

Quote:

2.
The UK has been partly responsible for the global financial crisis in many ways. Just some articles, for illustrative not definitive purposes:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...nancial-crisis
http://www.independent.ie/business/i...f-2074919.html
Remember it was Northern Rock that is widely considered as a catalyst in the financial meltdown, though of course not the sole culprit:
http://ihrrblog.org/2010/07/27/the-r...ancial-crisis/

Fair enough. thanks.

Quote:

3.
Conservative as in politically and economically, eg:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...ns-survey.html

http://www.thedailybanter.com/tdb/20...ng-badly-.html
Growth is falling, unemployment and inflation are rising and consumer confidence has collapsed to levels lower than it reached in the depths of the recession in 2009. Rather than evidence of an "expansionary fiscal contraction", we are observing a "contractionary fiscal contraction". New data shows that all of the countries that have im plemented fiscal austerity policies experienced negative GDP growth rates in the fourth quarter of 2010: Greece (-1.4 per cent), Iceland (-1.5 per cent), Ireland (-1.6 per cent), Portugal (-0.3 per cent) and the UK (-0.5 per cent).

But that doesn't mean "conservative solutions" are the problem. In fact, I argue that it was "liberal solutions" that got us here...pretty much across the board. The exception would be greed in the financial sector.

Quote:

Spending is an issue, the government has implemented "austerity measures" but it may or may not be working depending on your view.

Extremist Muslims are an issue. But remember interestingly in 2006 alone only 70% of Londoners were classified as "White": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...ndon#Ethnicity I cannot comment on the ethnic or religious situation because I wasn't there long enough, but personally it felt like 1 out of every 2 Londoners were continental European, "Asian" (Indian, etc.), "Oriental" (Chinese, etc.), Middle Eastern or Black. Of these some are 1st generation migrants, some 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation.

Taxes and cost of living are not outrageous if you are earning in £, compared to the rest of Europe and "centre-left" countries like Australia and New Zealand. The issue right now in the UK or since mid-2008 are jobs, specifically lack thereof.

In the US, we're approximately 52% white. I'm really not taking issue with race. I'm taking issue (or just pointing out) extremist muslims (who may be black, white or nearly any race).

As for taxes: Why do you think jobs are hard to come by? The problem (as with much of Europe) is oppressive amounts of taxation and social spending. This lowers work incentive. And the U.S. is going that direction, apparently.
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post #33 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

That makes ten arrests... so much for the lone wolf theory.

But, this also might be a way for the police to keep her from answering parliament; she may not be able to attend the meeting she was called to?

I don't know how that works legally, but they've played with government like it's their little toy for so long, I don't think there's the appetite left to let them continue to.
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #34 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Instead of asking me for links, SDW, just use google.

It is is on every single news site that provides news. Providing you with links is like you asking me to prove the events of Watergate. They're in the public domain. They're everywhere. Don't be an arse.

4,000 victims of hacking:

From the right wing newspaper The Telegraph


and another, from thousands across both sides of the political spectrum, the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14067935?postId=109618144

There are thousands of links like this. Are you too lazy or too scared of Team Evil taking a hit to find them?

You want me to prove NI lied to Parliament?

Here is video of the first inquiry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BibxqfYiOqI

Here is Rebekah Brooks' letter to the CHAIRMAN of the Parliamentary enquiry, John Whittingdale MP.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/inte...h-brooks-email

Again, there are thousands of pages of reporting and commentary on this, and if you got your news from somewhere serious you could read them yourself.

Prove it was institutional at the NotW?

For fuck's sake, SDW, they hacked 4,000 people and closed the frigging newspaper down.

But all right. "Instutitional criminality at the News of the World":

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-happened.html

MP Tom Watson: Institutional Criminality:

http://www.publicservice.co.uk/news_story.asp?id=16865

Here is five minutes of the debate from the Houses of Parliament this week.

http://youtu.be/gnv_AuQ0XxU

I watched the whole debate. You can too, if you like. The evidence is totally overwhelming. You could use the internet and find out for yourself. There are thousands of pages of analysis and a few hours of discussion in Parliament. It is not 'secret', it is agreed and discussed across left and right in the House.

Met Police took payments? The directly reported words of Sir Paul Stephenson, head of the Met Police, good enough for you? "Officers took payments from the NotW":

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/868507-p...or-information

There are hundreds of different stories like this. Police in charge of the enquiry were the same ones providing NI journalists with information. It was discussed in the enquiry LAST WEEK in the HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT and STREAMED LIVE ON THE INTERNET.

Get your news from somewhere where they tell you the news, all right, and you won't look foolish asking for evidence which everyone, everywhere, knows.

You don't need to support Team Evil this time. Your team broke the law, they covered it up, they lied, and now they're fucked. You can support hacking the telephones of British war dead with journalists paid by Rupert Murdoch... or you can cleave to the last shred of decency you have and say "Actually, my team are pretty fucking disgusting this time."


I see...you meant VICTIMS. Honestly, I thought you meant that 4,000 people we involved in the News Corp end! My mistake.

As for the rest, though...you're clearly unhinged. I have no dog in this fight. I want to see the people who committed these crimes punished. What I do not want is people like you to to go fucking insane with hatred in a bid for revenge. Whomever authorized and/or conducted these illegal acts must be punished. If that was Murdoch, then he should fry. But there is no evidence of that, nor that News Corp itself even knew about the day-to-day operations of News of the World in this respect.

Quote:
You can support hacking the telephones of British war dead with journalists paid by Rupert Murdoch... or you can cleave to the last shred of decency you have and say "Actually, my team are pretty fucking disgusting this time.

I wanted to repost this, because it's good example of how extreme leftists engage in debate. It's the very definition of ad hominem. It's not enough that you hate News Corp. It's not enough that you disagree with me. You have to make it clear that if I disagree with you, I don't have a "shred of decency." It's so incredibly cheap and predictable.
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post #35 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I see...you meant VICTIMS. Honestly, I thought you meant that 4,000 people we involved in the News Corp end! My mistake.

As for the rest, though...you're clearly unhinged.

"Unhinged"?

News International reporters hacked the phones of British war dead and murder victims in on-going inquiries, as well as nearly 4,000 others.

They gave payments to the Police for information, they colluded with politicians (left and right, but mostly it has to be said right), News Corp paid hush money and they lied to parliament.

It's the biggest scandal in a hundred years, and just because you don't like it doesn't mean you get to call anyone unhinged.

Your Team acted in a disgusting way. Now you're characterising others as "full of hatred".

It's not about revenge, it's about justice. You don't know the facts. I think if they'd hacked your phone in your grief for profit you'd agree with me.
post #36 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

"Unhinged"?

Yes, UNHINGED.

Quote:

News International reporters hacked the phones of British war dead and murder victims in on-going inquiries, as well as nearly 4,000 others.

Which was wrong. And illegal.

Quote:

They gave payments to the Police for information, they colluded with politicians (left and right, but mostly it has to be said right), News Corp paid hush money and they lied to parliament.

"News Corps paid hush money." Prove that, champ.

Quote:

It's the biggest scandal in a hundred years, and just because you don't like it doesn't mean you get to call anyone unhinged.

Your Team acted in a disgusting way. Now you're characterising others as "full of hatred".

I don't have a team. And I'm calling you unhinged because of statements like: "Your Team acted in a disgusting way" and "if you have any shred of decency...." You're not even trying to comprehend what I'm posting. I have unequivocally condemned the hacking and those who did it. I have stated that if Murdoch was involved, he should fry. What more do you want?

Quote:

It's not about revenge, it's about justice.

No, I really don't think it is.

Quote:

You don't know the facts.

What access to facts do you have that I do not?

Quote:
I think if they'd hacked your phone in your grief for profit you'd agree with me.


1. Did they do that to someone you know, or are you full of shit here too?
2. If they did that to me, I would probably be fucking furious. That doesn't change the facts here, however. My hypothetical emotions have nothing to do with this.
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post #37 of 164
Exactly what I'm talking about: Harris goes to answer questions by appointment....gets arrested by surprise.

You'd think these people committed murder.
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post #38 of 164
Actually, I have to point out a classic right wing internet tactic here.

SDW doesn't know the facts. Clearly not, because he started out defending something terrible, saying "Well, it's not that bad. What's all the fuss about? They're going FULL RETARD."

So I told him the facts.

And he wrote "link? link? link? prove it".

So I gave him links and links and links and proved it.

So his final comeback was "Well, none of that matters, because you're unhinged anyway."

Really. These people.
post #39 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Yes, UNHINGED.

.

Yeah?

You want to whine about ad homs and then call me 'unhinged'?

You people, really.
post #40 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Exactly what I'm talking about: Harris goes to answer questions by appointment....gets arrested by surprise.

You'd think these people committed murder.

Ha ha ha, yeah.

No, they only hacked the voicemail of murder victims, British war dead, grieving families and the Royal Family, paid the Metropolitan Police for information, lied to a Parliamentary Enquiry and then paid £80,000 in hush money.

OF COURSE we shouldn't treat them like criminals. They're CONSERVATIVES.
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