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ITC rules HTC violating two of Apple's iPhone-related patents

post #1 of 83
Thread Starter 
The U.S. International Trade Commission made an initial ruling on Friday that HTC's handsets illegally violate two patented inventions found in Apple's iPhone.

The initial decision came from a judge at the ITC, who found, according to CNet, that HTC violated two of the 10 patents Apple had accused the company of violating in a complaint filed in March. HTC has already said it will appeal the decision.

"HTC will vigorously defend these two remaining patents through an appeal before the ITC commissioners who make the final decision," Grace Lei, general counsel for HTC, reportedly said. "This is only one step of many in these legal proceedings."

Cases with the ITC are ruled on by a judge. Those findings are then subject to review by the full commission.

The decision comes just days after Apple filed another complaint with the ITC, asking it to block the import of HTC handsets based on alleged violation of five new patents. That prompted HTC to publicly fire back on Tuesday, accusing Apple of resorting to legal tactics rather than "competing fairly in the market."

But Friday's initial ruling is part of an earlier lawsuit, filed by Apple in March of 2010.

In that original complaint, Apple initially accused the Taiwanese company of infringing on 20 patents related to the iPhone's user interface, underlying architecture and hardware. In a statement, Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs said though market competition is "healthy," competitors should not "steal" Apple's technology.

Apple's complaint specifically targeted a number of phones that run Google's Android mobile operating system, leading many to believe the real purpose of the complaint was to serve as a warning shot toward Google. For its part, HTC fired back with its own lawsuit, accusing Apple of infringing on five patents.
post #2 of 83
Google: You can't steal something and then just give it away for free.

it's pay time baby.

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post #3 of 83
Lol if Apple make money from Android sales. ( That said Nokia make money from Apple).
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #4 of 83
which patents, that's critical
i bet schmidt knows
i bet they are working on work arounds
i guess that ota update will surprise customers
or just ban them
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #5 of 83
I will advice my children that of they want to make very good money to study law focussing on intellectual property rights. I will probably fall asleep listening to them talk about their work, and god knows, so might they, but if they can take the boredom it seeks like a safe bet.
post #6 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Lol if Apple make money from Android sales. ( That said Nokia make money from Apple).

Nokia will only make money as long as Apple uses 3G.

2012 all Apple products will be 4G.
post #7 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedLobster View Post

Google: You can't steal something and then just give it away for free.

it's pay time baby.

Google does not care.
They don't sell Android.

Android makers sells Android and they should pay.
Apple got the Multi touch patent 3 weeks ago.
Since then 5 Android makers have signed deals with MSFT paying 5-15 dollar per Android device. They believe that MSFT patent portfolio would protect them from Apple.

Apple invent iPhone and Multi touch. Google buys Android and orders Android to clone Iphone. Android makers pay licensing fees to MSFT.

MSFT will make about a billion next year in licensing fees for Android.
post #8 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

Nokia will only make money as long as Apple uses 3G.

2012 all Apple products will be 4G.

2012: two Apple products MIGHT be 4G. No others will.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #9 of 83
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #10 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

2012: two Apple products MIGHT be 4G. No others will.

The Macbook Air and the Macbook Pro are two targets that look likely to include NFC and 4G.
post #11 of 83
The patents are not directly related to the iPhone (granted back in the 90s) so I think Apple will license these patents. HTC will most likely sign a deal followed by other deals with other Android makers.
post #12 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedLobster View Post

Google: You can't steal something and then just give it away for free.

it's pay time baby.

HTC not Google
post #13 of 83
I was wondering who really benfits if Android is curtailed. It appears both Apple and MS.

If hell is broken loose on the Android OEMs, and they aren't allowed to export their handsets into to US, they may have no choice but to start using Win7 and pay MS - they're paying it anyway for every Android set they manufacture.

Apple will benefit bc iOS is head and shoulders above Win 7, and will sell liked hotter-cakes.
post #14 of 83
Ah, the beginning of the end to cheating on Apple's IP.

Look for mea culpas and a quick settlements.
post #15 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by abarry View Post

I was wondering who really benfits if Android is curtailed. It appears both Apple and MS.

If hell is broken loose on the Android OEMs, and they aren't allowed to export their handsets into to US, they may have no choice but to start using Win7 and pay MS - they're paying it anyway for every Android set they manufacture.

Apple will benefit bc iOS is head and shoulders above Win 7, and will sell liked hotter-cakes.

Or maybe, each maker will be innovative and make their own OS and actually not be an Android clone.
post #16 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

Nokia will only make money as long as Apple uses 3G.

2012 all Apple products will be 4G.

In 2012 Apple products will contain both 3G and 4G

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post #17 of 83
HTC bought S3 Graphics this month to bargain with Apple patents.
post #18 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

In 2012 Apple products will contain both 3G and 4G

You don't know that. No one knows that. And only two Apple products have any chance of having LTE at all.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #19 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radjin View Post

Or maybe, each maker will be innovative and make their own OS and actually not be an Android clone.

Why has to make a new OS?

Apple sued for 10 patents and before the final resolution the infringement is on 4 of 29 claims of one patent and 4 of 42 claims of another.

Why a totally new os has to be done?
post #20 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

Nokia will only make money as long as Apple uses 3G.

2012 all Apple products will be 4G.

Yap, I predict a big success of Apple 4G only products in Europe
post #21 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShepherd View Post

HTC not Google

Quote:
I have looked at those patents before and they appear to be very fundamental. They are very likely to be infringed by code that is at the core of Android.

http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011...gement-of.html

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post #22 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

Google does not care.
They don't sell Android.

Android makers sells Android and they should pay.
Apple got the Multi touch patent 3 weeks ago.
Since then 5 Android makers have signed deals with MSFT paying 5-15 dollar per Android device. They believe that MSFT patent portfolio would protect them from Apple.

Apple invent iPhone and Multi touch. Google buys Android and orders Android to clone Iphone. Android makers pay licensing fees to MSFT.

MSFT will make about a billion next year in licensing fees for Android.

Apple did not invent multitouch. Their patents are on specific implementations of multitouch.
post #23 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

Yap, I predict a big success of Apple 4G only products in Europe

What European carriers have 4G networks (or plans for them within the next few years) at all?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #24 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

Why has to make a new OS?

Apple sued for 10 patents and before the final resolution the infringement is on 4 of 29 claims of one patent and 4 of 42 claims of another.

Why a totally new os has to be done?

For one thing, the new OS will include new languages, possibly including yours.




Just tea ... sing ...
post #25 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedLobster View Post

Google: You can't steal something and then just give it away for free.

it's pay time baby.

HTC is not Google.

The patents were:

* System and method for performing an action on a structure in a computer
* Real-time signal processing system for serially transmitted data

Huh? What were those patents exactly?
post #26 of 83
Nokia will only make money if Apple uses GSM. Apple's CDMA phone isn't subject to Nokia licensing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

Nokia will only make money as long as Apple uses 3G.

2012 all Apple products will be 4G.
post #27 of 83
How could licensing Microsoft's patents protect HTC from Apple's patents? I will make it easy for you. Doing so will not protect such Android users. If Apple was smart, it would just demand a licensing fee like Microsoft. If hardware makers are paying enough licensing fees to use Android, Windows 7, Web OS, and other innovations will look better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

Google does not care.
Since then 5 Android makers have signed deals with MSFT paying 5-15 dollar per Android device. They believe that MSFT patent portfolio would protect them from Apple.
post #28 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox View Post

HTC is not Google.

The patents were:

* System and method for performing an action on a structure in a computer
* Real-time signal processing system for serially transmitted data

Huh? What were those patents exactly?

These are very fundamental patents covering how a user interacts with a smartphone (or similar device), and consequently with a data network. It's not obvious how Google can code around this. Apple is also suing Motorola over the same patents.

But don't forget HTC has an ace up its sleeve that it can use - it has acquired S3 Graphics, which has won the first round of judgement in suing Apple for infringement of its image compression patents.
post #29 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Nokia will only make money if Apple uses GSM. Apple's CDMA phone isn't subject to Nokia licensing.

Actually I believe Apple is also licensing some of Nokia's smartphone patents too, certainly Nokia's lawsuit against Apple wasn't all GSM patents. Hopefully the next results will shed some light on the royalties being paid.
post #30 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

These are very fundamental patents covering how a user interacts with a smartphone (or similar device), and consequently with a data network. It's not obvious how Google can code around this. Apple is also suing Motorola over the same patents.

But don't forget HTC has an ace up its sleeve that it can use - it has acquired S3 Graphics, which has won the first round of judgement in suing Apple for infringement of its image compression patents.

I'm glancing at U.S. Patent No. 5,946,647 which was filed in 1996, it looks like pattern matches for string structures. I don't see how this differs from using regular expressions to find phone numbers, URLs, etc.
post #31 of 83
Quote:

So Patent 1 is for detecting data in OS and providing contextual actions, (for example, seeing a number in an text message and being able to open it in the dialer or being able to click a URL in a browser), and Patent 2 is having an operating system with applications and the capability of using a data connection?

So even ignoring Android, no competing non Apple/Microsoft (MS is immune due to cross-license deal) Smartphone OS can exist without infringing on this. I'm not seeing why I'm supposed to be celebrating about this ruling Permanent loss of competition is never good.
post #32 of 83
This is a vindication for Apple.
post #33 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

These are very fundamental patents covering how a user interacts with a smartphone (or similar device), and consequently with a data network. It's not obvious how Google can code around this. Apple is also suing Motorola over the same patents.

But don't forget HTC has an ace up its sleeve that it can use - it has acquired S3 Graphics, which has won the first round of judgement in suing Apple for infringement of its image compression patents.

No one can patent how user touch a screen. So Android OS just provided a function telling an application how user has touched the screen. It is up to the Android licensees to implement reaction to user touches. Apparently many Android copycats like HTC and Samsung choose how to react (method) to user touches exactly like the iPhone does. This is why HTC got sued.

In this regard, Apple can not sue the Android OS. If Google choose to market a smartphone that work like iPhone, then it might be sued by Apple.
post #34 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

No one can patent how user touch a screen. So Android OS just provided a function telling an application how user has touched the screen. It is up to the Android licensees to implement reaction to user touches. Apparently many Android copycats like HTC and Samsung choose how to react (method) to user touches exactly like the iPhone does. This is why HTC got sued.

So why did the ITC chuck out 8/10 patents, and the 2 patents the ITC are ruling HTC infringed on from the 90's and not directly anything to do with smartphones but any computer?
post #35 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

Google does not care.
They believe that MSFT patent portfolio would protect them from Apple.

Don't Apple and MS share their patents still?
post #36 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox View Post

I'm glancing at U.S. Patent No. 5,946,647 which was filed in 1996, it looks like pattern matches for string structures. I don't see how this differs from using regular expressions to find phone numbers, URLs, etc.

I was thinking the same, but I think it's a little more than that. It's a parser connected to a UI whereby the detected matches can be selected in order to execute the action. Still very very broad, and amazing if there is no prior art that covers it - in a sensible world it would fail the 'obviousness' test, but this isn't a sensible world.
post #37 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post

Don't Apple and MS share their patents still?

Ignore shompa, he is factually wrong about essentially everything he posts. It's unclear whether MS & Apple's licensing deal was renewed - there's nothing public either way on it since the 5 year deal was penned back in the 90s, but even if it did it wouldn't cover Google or HTC.
post #38 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaim2 View Post

So why did the ITC chuck out 8/10 patents, and the 2 patents the ITC are ruling HTC infringed on from the 90's and not directly anything to do with smartphones but any computer?

Without seeing the 8/10 patents, I can not say.
post #39 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

In this regard, Apple can not sue the Android OS. If Google choose to market a smartphone that work like iPhone, then it might be sued by Apple.

In this case the patents don't apply to software but to a device that runs software - so clearly these two patents could never be used against Google directly, but only against the hardware vendors.
post #40 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

Without seeing the 8/10 patents, I can not say.

Apple dropped 5 voluntarily - presumably to speed the process, the other 3 were

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/5,481,721

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,275,983

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/5,566,337

(from foss patents)
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