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Apple confirms Mac OS X 10.7 Lion to launch on Wednesday - Page 2

post #41 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jensonb View Post

...That's what Versions is for, duder.

i never used it however I have a bias toward not creating file clutter and prefer to control the file/ folder and archiving on my own. I dislike automatic anything. I much prefer manual control.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #42 of 112
Right now the most aggravating part of Lion is a "feature" that I've encountered while typing where a popup will suggest alternate letters (those that are usually typed using the option key). This disrupts my typing as well as my thoughts as I have to backspace and retype the actual letter that I wanted in the first place.

I've searched high and low in System and each application's Preferences to find some way to stop this nonsense.

I'm a rather speedy touch-typist and am not in the habit of watching my screen while I type so when I do, I see garbage as there are missing letters. Here's a screen shot that illustrates this:



I complained on the Lion board at Apple and got only an automated reply that it was received.

If anyone here can shed light on this and advise where to look to cancel this system-wide, I'd be very grateful.
post #43 of 112
Alright Apple, I'll buy Mac OS X Lion tomorrow, but I'm still waiting for the iPhone 4S/5. Hurry up already!
post #44 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepro View Post

Stop with all of the tooting your own "as reported exclusively by Apple Insider on..."

1. It wasn't exclusive. It was one like a dozen different sites.
2. No one cares. We're already here reading your site, no need to toot your own horn to us.
3. It makes the writing less appealing, and more juvenile sounding. By a lot.

Seriously, please stop!

There's an old saying: Woe unto him who tooteth not his own horn for it shall not otherwise be tootethed.
post #45 of 112
still no word about doing a clean install?
post #46 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

That [autosave] and resume are the two worst features and there is apparently no way to turn them off, very aggravating and annoying for people who like to save their own documents as needed and don"t want every application to launch when turning on the machine, just awful ideas in my opinion.

Hear! Hear!

While an Appleseed participant I complained often about the lack of a means of disabling autosave. I work on a lot of PDF files, including editing out entire pages. When I try to save a single page out of several (or several hundred), it saves the entire document in the background. When I email what I think is a single page, my recipients inform me that they've gotten the entire document. I've had to resort to PDF Pen rather than Preview as my primary PDF-handling app.
post #47 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Not at the moment. At the moment Cook is the CEO which means that Oppenheimer could be the COO. Acting in both cases but I won't be shocked if the 'acting' drops off of either or both and Jobs never officially comes back from his medical leave.

And in another year when folks are asking about succession plans Apple will be like "what are you talking about, Jobs is gone. Cook is the CEO. Has been for ages. Oh and by the way we made the shareholders filthy rich again this quarter."

Not getting it till at least .1 obviously, with no hard feelings again obviously.
post #48 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecphorizer View Post

There's an old saying: Woe unto him who tooteth not his own horn for it shall not otherwise be tootethed.

Haha, good one!
post #49 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Ok but let me decide if I want a finished document to be re-saved in case I want to test a small design change without over writing it or saving it as a new document.

That's why Auto-Save and Versions gives you the "Revert to Last Opened" and "Duplicate" options:

Revert to Last Opened
"If youre not happy with the changes you made, the Revert feature returns your document to the state it was in when you last opened it. So you can experiment freely, knowing you can always start again from the top."

Duplicate
"The Duplicate feature creates a copy of your document and places it next to the original. So you can start a fresh version using the original as a template."
post #50 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by badtz View Post

still no word about doing a clean install?

I've done several tests of the clean install process. There are guides to help you create either an install DVD or USB flash device available.

http://osxdaily.com/2011/06/08/creat...-install-disc/
http://osxdaily.com/2011/07/08/make-...b-flash-drive/

Use these and boot into the DVD or flash drive. When the Lion splash screen appears, you will have the option to choose your target install volume as well as the option to open Disk Utility to erase that volume.

This produces a clean install (AFAIK) without the need for Snow Leo.
post #51 of 112
Any sign of an option to install it at an Apple retail store yet for those that don't have any decent internet access?
post #52 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by illimiter View Post

That's why Auto-Save and Versions gives you the "Revert to Last Opened" and "Duplicate" options:

Revert to Last Opened
"If youre not happy with the changes you made, the Revert feature returns your document to the state it was in when you last opened it. So you can experiment freely, knowing you can always start again from the top."

Duplicate
"The Duplicate feature creates a copy of your document and places it next to the original. So you can start a fresh version using the original as a template."

That's the theory. My practical experience has been otherwise as the so-called duplicate (where I deleted some PDF pages) still contains the entire document. Reverting to last opened simply erases all the changes I made, making that option totally useless.

For some reason all those versions and changes and duplications retain the entire document below the surface, which poses problems when a PDF file gets emailed to someone not using Lion.

I would prefer to be able to disable any of these "new and exciting" options rather than go for a non-Apple app as a solution.
post #53 of 112
The problem with auto-save and versions in Lion is that this is a kludge that doesn't solve the long standing problem of Mac OS X - poor file system reliability. Heck, even NTFS is much better and less fragile than HFS+. Apple should have adopted a modern file system instead of reinventing the bicycle.

I completely agree with those who find these two features in their present form an irritation.
post #54 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratokaster View Post

Lion is smart. When you plug in a mouse, it displays scroll bars permanently. When you disconnect your mouse, scroll bars revert to their default behavior.

Ah, well, er...I have both a mouse and a trackpad plugged in. Prior to getting the trackpad I found that mousing over to where the scrollbars were supposed to be was hit or miss when trying use them. Of course the scroll wheel worked fine.
post #55 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

Given it's only $30, I'll pick auto-save of documents.

I would agree that auto-save and versions will be nice, however, applications will have to be updated before they support those features.

I don't know if I will wait for .1 release, but I will definitely wait until the 3rd party applications I use get updated so the new features are available when using them.

-kpluck

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The default settings will automatically charge your credit card each year for service renewal. You will not be notified or warned in anyway. You can turn auto renewal off.

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post #56 of 112
OS 10.7 couldn't possibly as much of a RAM hog.... could it?

Signed, 8GB machine
post #57 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyy View Post

Hit CMD-S, save your documents manually (and it will do it automatically, but that doesn't matter up you), never open the Versions browser and use the "duplicate" menu option instead of "Save As".

Crisis averted, you can still do what you want without ever taking advantage of Versions.

Hate to disagree and I'm not disputing what you're writing, but my experiences with Preview and CMD-S and other assorted parts are not at all what you've experienced.

Call me an old fogy or a dog that won't learn new tricks, but for the moment I'd much prefer to have "Save as..." still available. "Save as..." allows me to specify where I want the document with changes as well as its format (PDF, RTF, etc) where neither Save a Version nor Duplicate seem to permit (in my own experiences, anyway).

As is said, my mileage varied from yours!

Still and all, I will purchase and install Lion fairly soon because of other features that I like.
post #58 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Not at the moment. At the moment Cook is the CEO which means that Oppenheimer could be the COO. Acting in both cases but I won't be shocked if the 'acting' drops off of either or both and Jobs never officially comes back from his medical leave.

And in another year when folks are asking about succession plans Apple will be like "what are you talking about, Jobs is gone. Cook is the CEO. Has been for ages. Oh and by the way we made the shareholders filthy rich again this quarter."

The only thing management is interested in is how much they make. Making money for shareholders is very secondary. What you have is a purely hypothetical profit unless you sell now. The Apple bubble will burst sooner or later. People like Jobs, Cook, etc. will be laughing all the way to the bank, while small investors will be screwed. It's the American way.
post #59 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

If scrollbars are hidden and you scroll to make them appear, can you then drag the scrollbar? Shouldn't you also be able to drag scrollbars on iPhones and iPads? That would make it easier to scroll through long documents or web pages on iOS devices.

People still click on scroll bars?
post #60 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

That and resume are the two worst features and there is apparently no way to turn them off, very aggravating and annoying for people who like to save their own documents as needed and don"t want every application to launch when turning on the machine, just awful ideas in my opinion.

There should be no clutter. I believe versions works similar to Time Machine. You will still have to save your documents manually yourself as usual. Locking and "revert to last saved" will keep your original saved doc or revert to the last manually saved version. You can also choose not to relaunch apps when you restart or log off. You don't have to use these features if you don't want to.
post #61 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

i never used it however I have a bias toward not creating file clutter and prefer to control the file/ folder and archiving on my own. I dislike automatic anything. I much prefer manual control.

You still have complete manual control, with additional auto features. You can still hit CMD+S (I am assuming the keyboard shortcut is the same) to manually save a version.

I will admit, Auto Save makes me nervous, but I realize its because manually is how we have been doing it all the time, and in hindsight, manual saving is a terrible idea (but necessitated by the technology of the time).

My other worry, however, is less Luddite. I am concerned that Auto-Save will train me to not save the documents, which will cause me trouble when I am working in non-AutoSave Apps (this is not a huge worry, since I expect most apps to include this feature pretty quickly), and in Windows (this is a real worry, coz I have to use Windows at work).
post #62 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Beyond all of that the number one most important feature is the year less birthdays. As anybody that has to deal with woman can instantly understand.

I was so close to saying the same thing, but didn't want to get (virtually) kicked for it. I don't know which/how many of you are ladies!
post #63 of 112
So I have been running every Lion beta tester all the way up to Golden master. I run the Golden master on my MacBook Pro and my Mac Pro and not one problem. It runs great. So waiting till an update comes out may be premature. Apple has done pretty good with their OS Distro's and its stability. The golden master of Lion has been running Aperture, iLife 11, iWork and many other apps just fine. And the Golden master has updates to these apps. I don't think that you have too much to worry about when it comes to buying Lion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

OK, here's what I'm going to do.

Convince myself that I'm going to wait a few weeks until the .1 update comes out to work out the bugs a few weeks after launch, then about eight hours after I've convinced myself of that, I'll buy it and have no problems like always.

It'll be interesting to see how Apple handle the demand for downloads tomorrow.
An Apple man since 1977
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An Apple man since 1977
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post #64 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post

Had a look at the Lion features list and I'm struggling to find one that is making me want to upgrade.

What features do you guys think are worth paying to get?

Better ActiveDirectory support by way of ditching Samba. Worth $30 on its own but throw in the redesigned Mail (I love Mail and this version is so much nicer), images being copyable from PDFs (makes converting to ePub so much easier), merge clips in QuickTime, screen region capture in QuickTime, Windows Migration, Full Disk FileVault, Versions, AutoSave, text replacement (although this needs better support for actual English not American English) and you've got a lot of bang for $30.

You fail to see the one benefit of this upgrade... you won't know you've done it. That's the sign of a great OS that while some features have changed and may look slightly different once you use them you get so used to them that you don't even notice them. The OS does what it is supposed to to... let you do stuff and stay out of the way. Windows doesn't follow this. Even the change from Vista to Win7 was fraught with changes that made it harder for you to do things that you used to be able to do so easily. Every version of Windows requires a relearn which means they've failed. Every version of Windows is the equivalent of Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X. Every version of Mac OS X is Mac OS X to Mac OS X with some minor touches to the interface to make things easier.

Just spend the $30 it'll be worth it.
post #65 of 112
I just hope Apple's servers can handle the load of many millions downloading the new OS at the same time. This will definitely put their App Store to the test.
post #66 of 112
I am calling into work sick tomorrow..

"Sorry, I cannot come to work today, Lion is out and I need to stay home to deal with it"

later
Mac Book Pro (late 2008), Power Mac G5(upgraded to Intel Hackintosh), new iPad 64GB 4G LTE, iPad Mini, iPhone 5.
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Mac Book Pro (late 2008), Power Mac G5(upgraded to Intel Hackintosh), new iPad 64GB 4G LTE, iPad Mini, iPhone 5.
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post #67 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratokaster View Post

The problem with auto-save and versions in Lion is that this is a kludge that doesn't solve the long standing problem of Mac OS X - poor file system reliability. Heck, even NTFS is much better and less fragile than HFS+. Apple should have adopted a modern file system instead of reinventing the bicycle.

I completely agree with those who find these two features in their present form an irritation.

Don't use NTFS much do you? The only filesystem that corrupts more easily than NTFS is FAT. Incidentally both are developed by a certain Redmond company.

I can't say I have EVER had a problem with HFS+.
post #68 of 112
so having tons of experience trying to get point releases that are 500-ish mb, and IOS updates about the same size and waiting hours while the file trickles in at like 30kbps because of the all at once initial demand, is it fair to assume that I shouldn't bother trying to do this download till Saturday night?

Also, because of the size of it, can I just take a USB key into the apple store, and transfer teh image from a server there (after paying of course)? I just dont wanna pay $30 and have to wait 6-7 hours for a download bc apples pipes are clogged when I have an apple store, bestbuy, frys and more all within a 10 minute car ride.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #69 of 112
I am gonna be downloading like a champ. I already have the app store open and waiting for the download to appear. I am gonna wake up around 9:00 chicago time and jam the refresh button (probably for 3 and a half hours till its 10:30 in cupertino). We'll see how apple handles it.
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--SHEFFmachine out
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post #70 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Not at the moment. At the moment Cook is the CEO which means that Oppenheimer could be the COO. Acting in both cases but I won't be shocked if the 'acting' drops off of either or both and Jobs never officially comes back from his medical leave.

And in another year when folks are asking about succession plans Apple will be like "what are you talking about, Jobs is gone. Cook is the CEO. Has been for ages. Oh and by the way we made the shareholders filthy rich again this quarter."

Wow. I could actually see this happening. Have Jobs in an unofficial "advisory" role until they are able to officially announce Cook as CEO.
post #71 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

That and resume are the two worst features and there is apparently no way to turn them off, very aggravating and annoying for people who like to save their own documents as needed and don"t want every application to launch when turning on the machine, just awful ideas in my opinion.

It's not like quitting applications you don't want to continue running on start up takes all that much effort even if you couldn't turn it off. I guess we'll get to sort through System Preferences to see what behavior is switchable tomorrow. (And so far, most of the angst-producing changes, like scrolling behavior, have been shown to be selectable, why not Resume?)

Wait. You forgot a couple of things:

- Versions. So you can go back to an earlier saved version if you don't like the current one.

- Autosave doesn't overwrite previously-saved states of a document every time it does an automatic save. If you explicitly save a document, that will show up as a version, and when you quit the application, it will also save a version. Until you explicitly do either, the saves are to a temporary file, sort of like Schroedinger's Cat.

It's like some folk are just looking for something to darken their day.
post #72 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Ok but let me decide if I want a finished document to be re-saved in case I want to test a small design change without over writing it or saving it as a new document.

Rejoice! then.

Hint: Look into Versions' behavior, not to mention cmd-S and quitting the application.
post #73 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowededwookie View Post

Don't use NTFS much do you? The only filesystem that corrupts more easily than NTFS is FAT. Incidentally both are developed by a certain Redmond company.

I can't say I have EVER had a problem with HFS+.

I have had problems. Three times during my time using SL I have had whole folders disappear: pictures, downloads and movies. I could not get these folders back by fixing permissions or repairing the disk. Nothing obvious caused this no bumps or knocks on the drive. One day the folder was there, the next day not. I had to restore them from backups. (Thank God for Time Machine.)

I was really hoping for a replacement of the file system in Lion, but it looks like that may be a longer-term project (assuming it is still a project at all).
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AppleInsider = Apple-in-cider. It's a joke!

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post #74 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by badtz View Post

still no word about doing a clean install?

You've been able to do a clean install from the file sitting on your desktop since DP1, for heaven's sake.

Originally Posted by helia

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post #75 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratokaster View Post

Lion is smart. When you plug in a mouse, it displays scroll bars permanently. When you disconnect your mouse, scroll bars revert to their default behavior.

I didn't realize this! I got a Magic Trackpad for two reasons - preparation for the gesture-based awesomeness I've seen in the Lion preview vids and because I hit a deer while riding my motorcycle and shattered the distal radius of my right arm (among a few other things). That rendered my right-handed MS mouse less than useful.
post #76 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by fartheststar View Post

Remove 2nd Not

The sentence is correct. It's terrible, but it's correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apple15 View Post

"The announcement from Apple Chief Operating Officer Peter Oppenheimer confirms an exclusive report from AppleInsider on Monday. Also rumored to launch is a refresh to the thin-and-light MacBook Air notebook, powered by Lion."

Isn't Peter Oppenheimer Apple's CFO? I thought Tim Cook was the COO...

According to Apple's site you're correct but as someone's pointed out, that might have changed temporarily with Steve Jobs' hiatus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by odmac View Post

Can't wait!
Even though I don't have a Mac yet(which I will be getting one when it comes out), Mac OS X 10.7 Lion looks like my favorite operating system, compared to Windows 7 Ultimate.
There are features in Lion that I would love. Those are; the improved multi-touch gestures, "Resume", "Auto Save and Versions" and some cool features that come with a Mac.
So its going to be cool transferring to a Mac with a new OS to learn.

Welcome to 2011 computing the way it should be!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

I am gonna be downloading like a champ. I already have the app store open and waiting for the download to appear. I am gonna wake up around 9:00 chicago time and jam the refresh button (probably for 3 and a half hours till its 10:30 in cupertino). We'll see how apple handles it.

You are a webmaster's nightmare.
post #77 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Not at the moment. At the moment Cook is the CEO which means that Oppenheimer could be the COO. Acting in both cases but I won't be shocked if the 'acting' drops off of either or both and Jobs never officially comes back from his medical leave.

And in another year when folks are asking about succession plans Apple will be like "what are you talking about, Jobs is gone. Cook is the CEO. Has been for ages. Oh and by the way we made the shareholders filthy rich again this quarter."

Listen to the Q3 conference call. Nancy Paxton, senior director of investor relations, introduced Peter Oppenheimer as CFO and Tim Cook as COO. See http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/

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post #78 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyguy209 View Post

First of all it's only $30 (and that's for the entire family of Macs you may have)!

Please explain - after paying once for the 'app' we can download it onto as many machines as we like???
Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
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Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
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post #79 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by hentaiboy View Post

Please explain - after paying once for the 'app' we can download it onto as many machines as we like???

From Apple's website description of the App Store:

"You can install apps on every Mac you use and even download them again. This is especially convenient when you buy a new Mac and want to load it with apps you already own."

So, if you have several Macs in the family, you can pay for it once and use it on all your machines. Much better than the old licensing of one computer or buy a family pack if you want several licenses.
post #80 of 112
My Lion concerns that make me hesitant:

-When you open a document from an encrypted image, does the versioning and resume save it publicly on the boot volume? Horrible if so. I resent the possibility of being forced to encrypt a whole volume just to protect myself from the OS's built-in "wheeee, let's duplicate data the user intended to have single secure versions of".

-With all this versioning and resume stuff, how can you know how much space your CURRENT data takes and how much of it is being eaten up by all the versions? At what point does OS X stop so you have X amount of Gigs free left on your drive? What's the process to clear ALL the versions and snapshots?

-One of the things that drives me nuts about Windows is that it makes the boot volume thrash/be accessed constantly. With all this version/resume stuff, I'm worried that my Mac is headed into the same arena of constant disk access. I mean, I'm used to knowing what's using my drive and why. Lion might make me wonder, "wtf is saving a version NOW?!" What if one works on 50MB files like in Photoshop? If it goes nuts creating versions and thrashing my drive, and slowing down what I'm CHOOSING to consciously do, I'm gonna scream.

-I do audio production. What if Lion starts doing a version snapshot while I'm recording multiple simultaneous tracks which is disk intensive? Is Lion the first version of OS X to be anti-audio production for potential performance issues?

-Drive mirroring. Will drive mirroring apps like SuperDuper! now have to take longer because it has to backup the bazillions of little version/resume files/snapshots? What if I just want to make a CURRENT snapshot forgoing all the history bits? If my concern of earlier has a solution, am I know forced to manually clear the history before a cron'd backup schedule kicks in?

Security. Performance. Multitasking and no flippin' mysteries surrounding peripheral and cpu activity. That's the way I like to compute. These are big failure points for Windows which keeps me on Macs. I don't know if Lion won't mess all this up, so I'm clinging to Snow Leopard wondering if we'll have a long-term relationship.
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