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Apple confirms Mac OS X 10.7 Lion to launch on Wednesday - Page 3

post #81 of 112
7/19/11 at 9:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveH View Post

Wait. You forgot a couple of things:

- Versions. So you can go back to an earlier saved version if you don't like the current one.

- Autosave doesn't overwrite previously-saved states of a document every time it does an automatic save. If you explicitly save a document, that will show up as a version, and when you quit the application, it will also save a version. Until you explicitly do either, the saves are to a temporary file, sort of like Schroedinger's Cat.

It's like some folk are just looking for something to darken their day.

Heh-heh. I can "see" the fickle finger of fate pointing in my direction! I know, if the shoe fits and all that...

However, I'm not looking for something to darken my day; I'm merely recounting my own negative experiences with these two features. My complaints aren't going to stop me from buying the retail version in the next couple of days.
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post #82 of 112
7/19/11 at 9:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post

Had a look at the Lion features list and I'm struggling to find one that is making me want to upgrade.

What features do you guys think are worth paying to get?

Screen sharing is more stealthy.
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post #83 of 112
7/19/11 at 9:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepro View Post

Stop with all of the tooting your own "as reported exclusively by Apple Insider on..."

1. It wasn't exclusive. It was one like a dozen different sites.
2. No one cares. We're already here reading your site, no need to toot your own horn to us.
3. It makes the writing less appealing, and more juvenile sounding. By a lot.

Seriously, please stop!

Absolutely. Decent writing in the Apple news world died with ThinkSecret. Even the writing on AI got worse because they stopped being able to plagiarize passages from TS.

Why does every article have a dead link from 2010 at the bottom ("AppleInsider seeks night/weekend writer-editor")? Also at the bottom, why are the tables of links for features and recent headlines duplicated? Seriously, this is the most un-Apple design Apple site out there.
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post #84 of 112
7/19/11 at 9:45pm
AI did manage to successfully guess the release date at the third attempt. That's pretty exclusive in my book.
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post #85 of 112
7/19/11 at 10:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

i never used it however I have a bias toward not creating file clutter and prefer to control the file/ folder and archiving on my own. I dislike automatic anything. I much prefer manual control.

Then might I suggest you would be much better served by Slackware Linux.
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post #86 of 112
7/19/11 at 10:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

You still have complete manual control, with additional auto features. You can still hit CMD+S (I am assuming the keyboard shortcut is the same) to manually save a version.

I will admit, Auto Save makes me nervous, but I realize its because manually is how we have been doing it all the time, and in hindsight, manual saving is a terrible idea (but necessitated by the technology of the time).

My other worry, however, is less Luddite. I am concerned that Auto-Save will train me to not save the documents, which will cause me trouble when I am working in non-AutoSave Apps (this is not a huge worry, since I expect most apps to include this feature pretty quickly), and in Windows (this is a real worry, coz I have to use Windows at work).

But windows will prompt you to save after you print the document! It also never crashes so you will be fine!
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post #87 of 112
7/19/11 at 11:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard View Post

I have had problems. Three times during my time using SL I have had whole folders disappear: pictures, downloads and movies. I could not get these folders back by fixing permissions or repairing the disk.

Just so you know, repairing permissions does nothing to fix problems... unless the applications were installed using the Installer app. Repair disk may or may not fix the problem.

It seems odd that the file system would be the cause of this but to confirm it I would open Terminal and make sure you're in the profile directory by typing:

cd ~

Then do a directory listing showing hidden files and folders like so:

ls -la

If they are there then the filesystem is being dicky. If not then they are well and truly gone.

TechTools is also a really fantastic app for fixing filesystem problems but I'm not so convinced the filesystem is at fault here. TechTools would tell you though. It's expensive but extremely useful. I've used it on a number of occasions to fix corrupted filesystems on Macs. They had been pounded as they were museum display machines but they hadn't lost any data as a result of the corruption which is why I feel hesitant in blaming the filesystem for the missing files.
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post #88 of 112
7/19/11 at 11:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by arielauthentic View Post

-One of the things that drives me nuts about Windows is that it makes the boot volume thrash/be accessed constantly. With all this version/resume stuff, I'm worried that my Mac is headed into the same arena of constant disk access. I mean, I'm used to knowing what's using my drive and why. Lion might make me wonder, "wtf is saving a version NOW?!" What if one works on 50MB files like in Photoshop? If it goes nuts creating versions and thrashing my drive, and slowing down what I'm CHOOSING to consciously do, I'm gonna scream.

The reason that Windows keeps churning your drive is because it sucks at handling RAM and so keeps using virtual RAM (HDD space) when doing things. Mac OS X and other UNIX based systems are so much better at handling RAM and so don't need to access the HDD as much.
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post #89 of 112
7/19/11 at 11:25pm
TO THE ADMINS:
Change
Apple had not previously not offered a specific launch date
by
Apple had not previously offered a specific launch date
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post #90 of 112
7/19/11 at 11:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

OK, here's what I'm going to do.

Convince myself that I'm going to wait a few weeks until the .1 update comes out to work out the bugs a few weeks after launch, then about eight hours after I've convinced myself of that, I'll buy it and have no problems like always.

It'll be interesting to see how Apple handle the demand for downloads tomorrow.

I too will wait till a .1 update since I experienced the FW wipe problem when updating to 10.3.0 and didn't like the stacks with 10.4.0.

Besides, with Apple selling OSX mainly to laptops with their 73% share 10.7 is mainly designed for laptops. And as I'm behind a 30" ACD all day I don't need Full Screen apps, Launchpad or Mission Control. Command-Tab works just fine for me. After reading the 250+ New Features list there isn't any compelling reason for me to upgrade. And still no week numbers in iCal it seems, which I would like to have as it's much used here in Europe. I will like the last feature listed:

"Interact with iTunes artwork in screen saver
Turn your screen saver into a jukebox. Just click an album to play the songs."

What features are there in Lion for desktop users you plan to use? Build-in Xsan?
Look what the cat dragged in: Mavericks!
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Look what the cat dragged in: Mavericks!
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post #91 of 112
7/20/11 at 12:07am
Great!!!! Can't wait. Hopefully they do release the MacBook Air's (if there is any). I've been waiting for about two weeks to buy my first Mac ever!
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post #92 of 112
7/20/11 at 12:25am
I come from an all day power cut (well okay, since 3pm yesterday) back to the news that Lion will be released today! Shame about the time difference though, but at least I get to use my MacBook Pro at work to check for a download. Excited I am. I'm not a developer so this will be a 100% new experience for me

... at night.

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... at night.

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post #93 of 112
7/20/11 at 1:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowededwookie View Post

Just so you know, repairing permissions does nothing to fix problems... unless the applications were installed using the Installer app. Repair disk may or may not fix the problem.

It seems odd that the file system would be the cause of this but to confirm it I would open Terminal and make sure you're in the profile directory by typing:

cd ~

Then do a directory listing showing hidden files and folders like so:

ls -la

If they are there then the filesystem is being dicky. If not then they are well and truly gone.

TechTools is also a really fantastic app for fixing filesystem problems but I'm not so convinced the filesystem is at fault here. TechTools would tell you though. It's expensive but extremely useful. I've used it on a number of occasions to fix corrupted filesystems on Macs. They had been pounded as they were museum display machines but they hadn't lost any data as a result of the corruption which is why I feel hesitant in blaming the filesystem for the missing files.

Thanks for the reply. I've hesitated over TechTools because of the price, but maybe I should invest. One more bit of data: Pathfinder didn't show the folders either.
AppleInsider = Apple-in-cider. It's a joke!

I've used macs since 1985 when I typed up my first research paper. Never used anything else never wanted to.
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AppleInsider = Apple-in-cider. It's a joke!

I've used macs since 1985 when I typed up my first research paper. Never used anything else never wanted to.
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post #94 of 112
7/20/11 at 1:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowededwookie View Post

Don't use NTFS much do you? The only filesystem that corrupts more easily than NTFS is FAT. Incidentally both are developed by a certain Redmond company.

I can't say I have EVER had a problem with HFS+.

I happen to manage a whole building of Windows PCs. Never ever had a problem with NTFS. At the same time, EVERY time I verify my HFS+ volumes with Disk Utility, it finds a bunch of errors. Also lost my data a couple of times because of power failures.
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post #95 of 112
7/20/11 at 2:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by arielauthentic View Post

My Lion concerns that make me hesitant:

-When you open a document from an encrypted image, does the versioning and resume save it publicly on the boot volume? Horrible if so. I resent the possibility of being forced to encrypt a whole volume just to protect myself from the OS's built-in "wheeee, let's duplicate data the user intended to have single secure versions of".

-With all this versioning and resume stuff, how can you know how much space your CURRENT data takes and how much of it is being eaten up by all the versions? At what point does OS X stop so you have X amount of Gigs free left on your drive? What's the process to clear ALL the versions and snapshots?

-One of the things that drives me nuts about Windows is that it makes the boot volume thrash/be accessed constantly. With all this version/resume stuff, I'm worried that my Mac is headed into the same arena of constant disk access. I mean, I'm used to knowing what's using my drive and why. Lion might make me wonder, "wtf is saving a version NOW?!" What if one works on 50MB files like in Photoshop? If it goes nuts creating versions and thrashing my drive, and slowing down what I'm CHOOSING to consciously do, I'm gonna scream.

-I do audio production. What if Lion starts doing a version snapshot while I'm recording multiple simultaneous tracks which is disk intensive? Is Lion the first version of OS X to be anti-audio production for potential performance issues?

-Drive mirroring. Will drive mirroring apps like SuperDuper! now have to take longer because it has to backup the bazillions of little version/resume files/snapshots? What if I just want to make a CURRENT snapshot forgoing all the history bits? If my concern of earlier has a solution, am I know forced to manually clear the history before a cron'd backup schedule kicks in?

Security. Performance. Multitasking and no flippin' mysteries surrounding peripheral and cpu activity. That's the way I like to compute. These are big failure points for Windows which keeps me on Macs. I don't know if Lion won't mess all this up, so I'm clinging to Snow Leopard wondering if we'll have a long-term relationship.

Versioning does not work in all applications, only those which support the feature. The 'version' information is a record of the changes not full duplicates of the files so takes up far less space.
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post #96 of 112
7/20/11 at 2:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

I too will wait till a .1 update since I experienced the FW wipe problem when updating to 10.3.0 and didn't like the stacks with 10.4.0.

Besides, with Apple selling OSX mainly to laptops with their 73% share 10.7 is mainly designed for laptops. And as I'm behind a 30" ACD all day I don't need Full Screen apps, Launchpad or Mission Control. Command-Tab works just fine for me. After reading the 250+ New Features list there isn't any compelling reason for me to upgrade. And still no week numbers in iCal it seems, which I would like to have as it's much used here in Europe. I will like the last feature listed:

"Interact with iTunes artwork in screen saver
Turn your screen saver into a jukebox. Just click an album to play the songs."

What features are there in Lion for desktop users you plan to use? Build-in Xsan?

The overall performance increase by moving to full 64-bit is worth the £20.99 / $29.99 alone. Everything goes after in Lion
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post #97 of 112
7/20/11 at 3:31am
Early this AM, os x received an update that had something to do with lion migration. Is this an older update I somehow missed? Nobody is talking about it...
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post #98 of 112
7/20/11 at 3:50am
Interesting to note Apple's Online Store is undergoing maintenance. Of course so many parts will need to be updated to feature Lion but could this signify some hardware refreshes are imminent?
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post #99 of 112
7/20/11 at 4:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakevin. View Post

Interesting to note Apple's Online Store is undergoing maintenance. Of course so many parts will need to be updated to feature Lion but could this signify some hardware refreshes are imminent?

Macbook Air? New Monitor? MAS is not closed.
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post #100 of 112
7/20/11 at 4:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Macbook Air? New Monitor? MAS is not closed.

Well I assume they are updating all of their images and information to feature Lion wallpaper and note its features but surely they can do that without pulling the whole store offline? So yes... I think MBA/Cinema Display/Mini might be in the works

Here's hoping!

Oh, and I don't expect the Mac App Store to go down... just refresh kinda thing.
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post #101 of 112
7/20/11 at 4:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowededwookie View Post

The reason that Windows keeps churning your drive is because it sucks at handling RAM and so keeps using virtual RAM (HDD space) when doing things. Mac OS X and other UNIX based systems are so much better at handling RAM and so don't need to access the HDD as much.

I know this, but we're headed to Lion-land. I'm just worried that constantly saving statuses and versions leads to the same mechanical result of a drive crunching away in interminable read/write operations. My parents have a Time Machine external USB drive and that thing is going nuts most of the time. I understand that Lion uses a Local Time Machine by default?
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post #102 of 112
7/20/11 at 4:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

Versioning does not work in all applications, only those which support the feature. The 'version' information is a record of the changes not full duplicates of the files so takes up far less space.

Well that's good! But, are the logs of changes public when working with docs in an encrypted volume? I might not have to deal with this now if the apps I use to work on this content don't implement the feature, but once they do they become part of the problem.

I just need to know if I can disable all versions/resume/incremental save whatever of Lion if it doesn't save such things within the volume that holds the original content. If the versions are stored on the same volume as the document, then great, they will be encrypted in the disk image.

I'll be definitely looking under the hood to where changelogs are stored and see if there's a file<->volume relationship.
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post #103 of 112
7/20/11 at 5:07am
The Apple store is down.

We'll be back soon.
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post #104 of 112
7/20/11 at 5:10am
I will be interested to hear what people think of the versioning feature. I was super-ethusiastic about it to begin with. But now, after 2 weeks of usage, not so much.

It doesn't have the feel of "Of course, this is how it always should have been," like some solutions have. It just feels overdone. An over-engineered solution to the fairly simple problem of Document Saving.

I don't know what an elegant solution is, but when someone works it out I think it will look like the difference between garbage collection and ARC.
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post #105 of 112
7/20/11 at 5:39am
Lion now on UK store for download. Mac Book Air all over the place!
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post #106 of 112
7/20/11 at 5:40am
And here it is.
The Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted.
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The Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted.
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post #107 of 112
7/20/11 at 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sticknick View Post

People still click on scroll bars?

Do you really think that endless flicking is the best way to scroll through long documents or web pages?
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post #108 of 112
7/20/11 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Do you really think that endless flicking is the best way to scroll through long documents or web pages?

Stop. Trolling.

Yes, you can click and drag scrollbars in Lion.
Tallest Skil & Relic
"…AI is a private forum…" "Well, in that case, it's naked time…"
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Tallest Skil & Relic
"…AI is a private forum…" "Well, in that case, it's naked time…"
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post #109 of 112
7/20/11 at 11:29am
Lion marks your ~/Library folder as hidden by default. I made myself a symbolic link to replace the Finder clicking solution we've always had:

ln -s /Users/username/Library ./Bibliothèque
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post #110 of 112
7/20/11 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Stop. Trolling.

Yes, you can click and drag scrollbars in Lion.

Hey pinhead, before calling people trolls, read the smartass post that I was responding to.
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post #111 of 112
7/20/11 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Hey pinhead, before calling people trolls, read the smartass post that I was responding to.

But both sides have merit. And out of context both sides sound like trolling.
Tallest Skil & Relic
"…AI is a private forum…" "Well, in that case, it's naked time…"
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"…AI is a private forum…" "Well, in that case, it's naked time…"
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post #112 of 112
7/21/11 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by illimiter View Post

That's why Auto-Save and Versions gives you the "Revert to Last Opened" and "Duplicate" options:

Revert to Last Opened
"If youre not happy with the changes you made, the Revert feature returns your document to the state it was in when you last opened it. So you can experiment freely, knowing you can always start again from the top."

Duplicate
"The Duplicate feature creates a copy of your document and places it next to the original. So you can start a fresh version using the original as a template."

Good to know. I would still rather not have either one. One of my frequent tasks involves exporting a pdf from inDesign. Many times I will want to overwrite that file but it won't let me. i have to delete it then export it again. Just an inconvenience that is really unnecessary for my work flow.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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