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Apple's new 27-inch LED display is world’s first Thunderbolt display - Page 2

post #41 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Nope, launch day of the 27" LED Cinema Display.

I only bought it because I was told it shouldn't be obsoleted for another five to six years or so.

Apple is very slow in updating their monitors, and this monitor update is a fantastic option for people with newer computers. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but are you upset that Apple has released this product simply because it now makes your product older? If so, please get over it. Your product is not obsolete. It works every bit as well as it did when you first purchased it. As does the old-school matte cinema display I have downstairs.

On the unrelated note of glossy vs. matte, get over it folks. I deal with graphic design all day long and I have no problem using either type of display.
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post #42 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsu View Post

Did your current cinema display work with the current computer system you have?
I certainly hope it did.

Does the fact that Apple offering a new model change the way your current setup works in any way?
I don't see how it could.

Would any new Mac computer still work with your existing cinema display?
No reason why not.

Why are you so worked up about this new monitor then?

I'm with this guy. Your misdirected rage makes no sense.

Did your current Cinema Display stop working? No? Then what are you upset about?

Earlier on, you acknowledged that Apple sales reps have no idea about what's coming down the pipeline and when. And yet you trusted this guy! Even though you knew he knew nothing! This is the company that hid the iPad from its own board of directors and requires select developers to put new iPhone models into a locked safe while testing. But this lonely Apple sales rep guy you talked to, what? Called up Steve?

"Hi Steve, I have a customer here who would like to know our exclusive plans for our display range for the next half decade and beyond. What's that? No updates? And this is set in stone, right? We're not a company that exists to make profit, so we won't change our minds and we absolutely swear off new releases using updated technology, yes? Okay, good. I'll tell the customer to go ahead and buy, then."

I imagine that's how it played out. Correct me if my imagination got the better of me.

But still, how does this impact you? We've established your current display is just as functional and gorgeous as it was the day you bought it. Are you legally required to purchase the latest and greatest? Do you even have a Thunderbolt-equipped Mac? Would having the latest release offer considerable benefits to your daily work and play routine? Then buy the new one! You realize Apple products have great resale values, right?

You, sir, make no sense, and have no argument.
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post #43 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

If you do not upgrade your computer (laptop) and display at the same time, Apple can make it impossible for you to get an Apple display.
Three years ago, I was in the market for a 24" display but had a 2006 MBP (with DVI). Apple only offered a mDP display at that time (and no DVI to mDP were available).
Today, if I were in a market for a display, my 2009 MBP (with mDP) would not work with Apple's current TB display:
"System Requirements: Thunderbolt-enabled Mac computer, including MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, Mac mini, and iMac"

It would be interesting to try the new display on an older Mac. It might work. TB is probably necessary to make use of the hubs, the network jack and maybe the audio and camera.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Chatted with a guy that had a 60GB iPhoto library that took an hour to transfer via Firewire from one Mac to another.

He upgraded to a Thunderbolt machine but then decided to exchange for another Thunderbolt enabled model. The TB to TB connection transferred that same library in 20 minutes.

So beyond the incredible speed TB should allow for some nice flexibility.

Nice.
post #44 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Thunderbolt-based Macs with discrete graphics can drive two external displays giving professional users over 7 million additional pixels of display real estate and the ability to daisy chain additional Thunderbolt devices, as well as video and audio capture devices.

So I guess this means the new MacBook Airs can't drive two displays? That's one of the main reasons I was using to rationalize an update from my 6-month old MBA.
post #45 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

NEC sells a nice 27" monitor with Displayport for $1400 - PA271W-BK. It has very similar features to the new Thunderbolt Display, so Apple seems to be offering a lot of value here.

The NEC is non-glossy, too.

I don't mind the glossy screen for most computing (I thought I would hate it), but for movies (and many photographs) I really dislike it. Movies have lots of dark/nighttime scenes, and when I watch those all I can see is my face - not something I would wish on anyone.

I had to change my desktop picture, because the beautiful dark forest picture I was using looked terrible with the glossy screen.
post #46 of 96
'Get over it' ???

The whole point - only point - is that Apple can throw all the bells and whistles at a display that it wants... But if there is no matte option, the display is 100% useless for professionals or those who value their health.

Professional designers, photographers, medical professionals, or anyone working on color critical applications will have to pass on this display unless they can completely control the environment around the workstation. These are the same people who would like to buy a new iMac but won't until it's usable (matte).
I say this from actual experience. Not just arbitrarily throwing out an opinion like the 'get over it' camp, or 'Ive seen some graphic design on it - it's fine' camp.

Those who mention the old CRT's; "what did you back then?"
I'll tell you what we did, we went through great pains to control our environment. We bought great big ugly display hoods, we worked in windowless caves, we spent gobs of money on calibration equipment and software. We strained our eyes, wore sunglasses & dealt with the headaches. Not to mention those displays had curved surfaces to help with reflection as well as heavily coated anti-glare sprays. We even bought ugly plastic anti-glare sheets. It spWned a whole industry.
Why on earth do we want apple to take us backwards a decade in technological advancements??? Besides being thinner and lighter - it was the matte screens that pushed people to flat panel displays.

Apple has made it VERY clear as of late that they are a consumer centric company and well, don't give a crap about the prosumer market anymore.
post #47 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode View Post

glossy stuff

Then stop buying from Apple while simultaneously not complaining about it here and we'll all be good.

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post #48 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGuessSo View Post

So I guess this means the new MacBook Airs can't drive two displays? That's one of the main reasons I was using to rationalize an update from my 6-month old MBA.

No, they don't have a discrete graphic card, they have an integrated one (integrated into the Intel chipset).
post #49 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode View Post

'Get over it' ???

Yes, as in get over it. People complaining about glossy tend to do so to the point of derailing threads. We're getting very impatient with it, so we're inviting you to derail threads on some other site.

Edit: Also, send your matte feedback to Apple. They probably don't visit the forums.
post #50 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffdm View Post

yes, as in get over it. People complaining about glossy tend to do so to the point of derailing threads. We're getting very impatient with it, so we're inviting you to derail threads on some other site.

*applause*

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post #51 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallest skil View Post

nope, launch day of the 27" led cinema display.

I only bought it because i was told it shouldn't be obsoleted for another five to six years or so.



Oh, i won't be spending any more money on apple displays, that's for sure.



Get. Over. It.

sorry dude
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post #52 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsu View Post

did your current cinema display work with the current computer system you have?
I certainly hope it did.

Does the fact that apple offering a new model change the way your current setup works in any way?
I don't see how it could.

Would any new mac computer still work with your existing cinema display?
No reason why not.

Why are you so worked up about this new monitor then?

thunderbolt i guess
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post #53 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I am so freaking furious at Apple for doing this.

I can't even put it into words.

But, what happened to "Get. Over. It."? Can't take your own medicine?
post #54 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Folks

A matte Apple Thunderbolt Display would be great but it's not available. We've discussed matte vs glossy in numerous other threads. Let's keep this on topic.

Let's not miss the incredible flexibility that Thunderbolt allows here with the built in dock on the display. I really like that Ethernet made it. So now the ATD (Apple Thunderbolt Display) neatly packages what many expected to come in a few of adapters

Thunderbolt to Firewire
Thunderbolt to Ethernet
Thunderbolt to USB

Waiting for a similar Thunderbolt equipped breakout box with all the same ports found on a MacBook Pro but no monitor.
post #55 of 96
Can you connect another monitor to this using a Mini Displayport adapter and then run both displays at the same time?

If you connect a second Thunderbolt equipped Mac such as a MacBook Pro or Mac Mini to the Thunderbolt on the back of this display, could you then switch the display between the 2 computers?
post #56 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

But, what happened to "Get. Over. It."? Can't take your own medicine?

Don't recall anyone buying a Cinema Display after having been lied to that it was matte.

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post #57 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Don't recall anyone buying a Cinema Display after having been lied to that it was matte.

If the Apple Representative told you the display wouldn't be obsolete for many years, he was right.

If the told you a new one wouldn't be coming out for a few years, you are a fool for believing him, especially as others have pointed out, there have been many articles about Thunderbolt for over a year now.

If you bought it more than a year ago, thems the breaks.

So, really, come off it.
post #58 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Then stop buying from Apple while simultaneously not complaining about it here and we'll all be good.

You and your 10 minutes of familiarity with Apple is irrelevant.

The masses of people who have been with the Mac platform for decades on the other hand - are now stuck between a rock and a hard place.
We refuse to buy the insanely overpriced/under powered Mac Pro's.
We refuse to buy glossy pieces of shit that harken back to the shitty days of CRT displays.
We refuse to switch our entire platform and investments over to Windoze.

Where do you think that leaves us?

I'll tell you where - here. Wondering why Apple is tossing us under a bus when it was ONLY us that kept Apple from evaporating completely not too long ago.
It's not like they aren't drowning in monies and can't afford a freak'n matte display option.

So take your silly ignorant bullshit somewhere else please. This isn't a 'preference' or 'opinion' issue for a lot of people. This is our livelihood. This is our digital culture on the line. This is Apple reneging on their promise to professionals that they want our business after we bought in.

You think people only bring the subject up here? YOU should go look at the Apple forums and the endless pages of people complaining about this.

Want the subject to die? Sign the petition and help initiate some logic at Apple.

At the very least, stop being a dink.
post #59 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode View Post

The masses of people who have been with the Mac platform for decades on the other hand - are now stuck between a rock and a hard place.
We refuse to buy the insanely overpriced/under powered Mac Pro's.
We refuse to buy glossy pieces of shit that harken back to the shitty days of CRT displays.
We refuse to switch our entire platform and investments over to Windoze.

Okay.

Quote:
Where do you think that leaves us?

It doesn't matter. You're not "masses" and you're hardly important to Apple. Apple couldn't make record quarters and seven billion in profit without developers making software for their computers as well as their mobile devices.

I'll go ahead and assume you're in the former group.

It doesn't seem to Apple that catering to your outlandish demands and false statements is of any benefit to them, otherwise they'd do it.

Quote:
I'll tell you where - here. Wondering why Apple is tossing us under a bus when it was ONLY us that kept Apple from evaporating completely not too long ago.

People who demand a certain type of display are the ones who saved Apple? I don't think so.

Quote:
This isn't a 'preference' or 'opinion' issue for a lot of people. This is our livelihood. This is our digital culture on the line. This is Apple reneging on their promise to professionals that they want our business after we bought in.

No, seriously, what do you do that would have 'saved Apple' while simultaneously forcing you to be in total darkness when you're using your computer? I'm totally, genuinely curious now.

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post #60 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Don't recall anyone buying a Cinema Display after having been lied to that it was matte.

I don't think it is fair to say you've been lied to about the Cinema Display, if that is what you mean here. It seems a bit much, especially if they probably weren't in any position to know Apple's future plans.
post #61 of 96
Well, that is nice to know. I have been eyeing the 27-inch LED Cinema Display for my Mac mini (mid 2010) and MacBook Air (Late 2010) a while. With today annoucment, I'm safe to go ahead and buy the 9/2010 release model. Few days ago, I thought Apple is going to drop the price on the non-TB Cinema Display but Apple keeps it for Mac Pro customers.
post #62 of 96
I read the Thunderbolt specification. It doesn't support matte displays.
post #63 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

I read the Thunderbolt specification. It doesn't support matte displays.

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post #64 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It doesn't matter. You're not "masses" and you're hardly important to Apple.

It doesn't seem to Apple that catering to your outlandish demands and false statements is of any benefit to them, otherwise they'd do it.

People who demand a certain type of display are the ones who saved Apple? I don't think so.

No, seriously, what do you do that would have 'saved Apple' while simultaneously forcing you to be in total darkness when you're using your computer? I'm totally, genuinely curious now.

1. We are "masses". Hundreds of thousands it would seem if you go to Apple's own forums.
So your wrong there.

2. Having displays that don't impair vision and the onset of migraine headaches is hardly an 'outlandish demand'.

3. Professionals are demanding a matte display option. Professionals are the ones who saved Apple. Again, that's your 10 minutes of Apple familiarity showing. Go ahead, read up or ask around.

4. We are aware we are not important to Apple... anymore. Divorce isn't easy. Especially when one party doesn't want one. That is why we are frustrated.
Do you understand that? No, seriously, do you understand that?

5. The 'creative industry' if you will, saved Apple (common known fact). Critical applications would include graphic design, pre-press (color correcting files from designers with no clue). Scanning and color correcting photographs, photography as a whole, matching Macbeth charts/photos for the dental lab industry for opaquing crowns, lighting calibration for video projects, video projects in general, testing calibration of new equipment, interior design applications, paint matching systems... to name a few. Pretty much any job that ended with the word 'production'.

Were you aware that walls were/are painted neutral greys in most cases as to reduce hue and tone tainting on displays? That a billion dollar industry for resolving color shifting and calibration was created. How do think having a mirror for a display affects these applications today?

Glossy displays are Apple going back to the stone age.
They may be fine for the light consumer and vain - but not professionals or those who value their eyesight.
post #65 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode View Post

incessant diatribe

Oh for the love of God give it a break!

Apple's focus is on selling computers, iPhones, iPads and iPods, not on creating the best uber display in the world for a few niche users.

They've sold far more Macs with glossy displays in the past year than your niche of professional matte lovers bought ten years ago.

Truth be told that the professional machines have been a small fraction of total Macs sold since 99. It was the original iconic iMac and iBook that helped to change Apple's fortunes.

I'd go as far as to state that Apple got into difficulty during the nineties because it was catering mainly for the niche users and lost the wider user groups to Windows 3.1 and 95.

Going back on topic, I've been using Macs since the Mac Plus.
My first Mac was a Performa 6200. I wasn't keen on the Performa monitor so I used a Sony Multisync with it instead.

Seeing that you're the professional user who'd be blinded and suffer from cerebral seizures the instant you glance at a glossy display, what's so offensive about hooking up an alternative, non Apple monitor to your Mac?

I do like this new Thunderbolt monitor, it would have been nice if it worked with a Displayport Mac but this is the price of progress: I'm not bemoaning the lack of a floppy drive on my Aluminium Macbook.
post #66 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode View Post

1. We are "masses". Hundreds of thousands it would seem if you go to Apple's own forums.
So your wrong there.

2. Having displays that don't impair vision and the onset of migraine headaches is hardly an 'outlandish demand'.

3. Professionals are demanding a matte display option. Professionals are the ones who saved Apple. Again, that's your 10 minutes of Apple familiarity showing. Go ahead, read up or ask around.

4. We are aware we are not important to Apple... anymore. Divorce isn't easy. Especially when one party doesn't want one. That is why we are frustrated.
Do you understand that? No, seriously, do you understand that?

5. The 'creative industry' if you will, saved Apple (common known fact). Critical applications would include graphic design, pre-press (color correcting files from designers with no clue). Scanning and color correcting photographs, photography as a whole, matching Macbeth charts/photos for the dental lab industry for opaquing crowns, lighting calibration for video projects, video projects in general, testing calibration of new equipment, interior design applications, paint matching systems... to name a few. Pretty much any job that ended with the word 'production'.

Were you aware that walls were/are painted neutral greys in most cases as to reduce hue and tone tainting on displays? That a billion dollar industry for resolving color shifting and calibration was created. How do think having a mirror for a display affects these applications today?

Glossy displays are Apple going back to the stone age.
They may be fine for the light consumer and vain - but not professionals or those who value their eyesight.

DUDE I OWN 3 LG SCREEN TV's AND 2 MBP,s

All of them have glass screens.
All of them look fantastic,

Glass is reflective
Glass is glossy
I just watched the ;Tourist ; and t looked fantastic .

Matte screens suck for many reasons
The big suck reasons any liquids or stuff put on the screen stays there and can easily dis color it .

We have had dozens of ruined hi jaclked TOPICS with people like you harping on and on about glossy AND matte .

Let it go dude . People who need Matte for work are a very tiny group who should not be cheap bugger snots and simply buy a matte CRT and join the matte lovers club LTD ,

Many moons ago apple counted on your sales.Now apple looks to a wider market.

ok

9
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post #67 of 96
You tell 'im, Bruce.

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post #68 of 96
Do the people who prefer glossy screens prefer to have glare and reflections? Do people who prefer matte screens prefer having washed out colors?

Isn't a good monitor supposed to display images that are true to life, not what looks cool in someone's mind?

The only way to see what more people prefer is for Apple to make both matte and glossy screen versions of all Mac laptops, iMacs and Apple monitors, with everything else being equal. Including the price. Make both versions available in stock everywhere. Take away any penalty associated with buying the matte screen option and then we can see which screen more people prefer.

On the other hand, make matte screens the standard and charge extra for glossy. Also make glossy screens special order items which take longer to deliver. Then see if people are willing to pay extra and wait longer to get glossy screens.

Furthermore, allow anyone to exchange their laptop, iMac, or Apple monitor free of charge if they decide that they prefer the other screen type.
post #69 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiA View Post

Apple's focus is on selling computers, iPhones, iPads and iPods, not on creating the best uber display in the world for a few niche users.

Are you implying that best quality displays for professional use are matte displays, and that glossy screens are for those who have to settle for something less?
post #70 of 96
The article states "Thunderbolt-based Macs with discrete graphics can drive two external displays giving professional users over 7 million additional pixels of display real estate and the ability to daisy chain additional Thunderbolt devices, as well as video and audio capture devices."

My understanding then is, only the mid-range new mini has discrete graphics. And only the 2011 15" and 17" (and not the 13") mac books qualify. And none of the MacBook Airs. So only a handful of the Thunderbolt macs can drive two displays like in the picture.

I would like to see a close-up of the ports on the new monitor, won't there have to be TWO thunderbird plugs, to enable the daisy chain?

Lastly, does this monitor use the same LG panel that the previous Apple 27", and the Dell u2711 both use? Is the dot-pitch the same across all 3 generations of Apple (27") monitors?
post #71 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJim View Post

My understanding then is, only the mid-range new mini has discrete graphics. And only the 2011 15" and 17" (and not the 13") mac books qualify. And none of the MacBook Airs. So only a handful of the Thunderbolt macs can drive two displays like in the picture.

Wonder what would happen if you tried it on something integrated.

Quote:
I would like to see a close-up of the ports on the new monitor, won't there have to be TWO thunderbird plugs, to enable the daisy chain?

How is EVERYONE missing this? The one you connect to the computer is built into the monitor, just like every Apple monitor since at least 1999.

Quote:
Lastly, does this monitor use the same LG panel that the previous Apple 27", and the Dell u2711 both use? Is the dot-pitch the same across all 3 generations of Apple (27") monitors?

I would imagine so, but we'd have to grab one to confirm.

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post #72 of 96
Tallest Skil: I was exactly like you until I used a glossy monitor. Then I got over it. And there's absolutely no problem with using one in a room with windows. Perhaps you've never used a glossy display.

Interesting! I'll have to keep this in mind. I did however use a macbook pro once (the unibody ones) and I used it for 6 months before finally deciding the glare was too much. Perhaps an iMac will fare better...

Tallest Skil: Were you even alive when CRTs were the only choice? How did you get by then?

I thought about this too. I assume it was the anti-glare coating my CRT had that the new Apple displays do not...
post #73 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gxcad View Post

I thought about this too. I assume it was the anti-glare coating my CRT had that the new Apple displays do not...

Well, whoever it was has since explained that he holed himself up in a room with no windows, painted his walls a neutral color, and used "expensive shades" to stop glare and whatever else.

So there's that mystery solved.

Oh, and you ought to use the forum's built-in quote feature. It's neater than you'd imagine. You can even quickly multi-quote multiple posts!

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post #74 of 96
I never considered these displays as docking stations but not that it was mentioned in the article it is fitting. The most I use a docking station for at the office is to connect to ethernet, LCD display, and keyboard and mouse. Very cool Apple.
post #75 of 96
Enough of the "professionals saved Apple" nonsense. When Apple focused on professionals, it was in deep doodoo. After Jobs returned, the two products that *really* turned things around were released: the iMac and the iPod. They were aimed squarely at consumers. They have been followed by the iPad and iPhone, which are just as consumer-friendly and even more profitable.

Back in the late nineties Apple sold overpriced, uncompetitive hardware and the professionals were deserting them in droves for speedier, cheaper Pentium systems. But it's all good, as the iOS products, along with the consumer computers, have turned them into the World's most valuable tech company. The professionals didn't save Apple. They very nearly sank it.
post #76 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Are you implying that best quality displays for professional use are matte displays, and that glossy screens are for those who have to settle for something less?

No more than I'm implying that the best computers for professional use are supercomputers and that a single unit Xserve or iMac are for those who have to settle for something else.

A niche group built a supercomputer from Apple Xserves and Mac Pros; it doesn't mean that Apple should now focus on making their computers into supercomputing nodes.

Equally a relatively small group need extremely colour accurate and calibrated monitors for their professional work. It doesn't mean should now focus on making such monitors, especially as Apple has never made such a monitor and third party alternatives are readily available:

LaCie 526 Colour Accurate Monitor with hood, software and BlueEye colorimeter
post #77 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGuessSo View Post

So I guess this means the new MacBook Airs can't drive two displays?

Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

No, they don't have a discrete graphic card, they have an integrated one (integrated into the Intel chipset).

This response doesn't actually answer the question. Apple have stated that Macs equipped with Thunderbolt and discreet graphics can drive two monitors. Apple have not (to the best of my knowledge) stated what happen when a Mac equipped with Thunderbolt but without discreet graphics is connected to two Thunderbolt-equipped Cinema Displays. For example, it might be the case that it works but the performance doesn't meet a standard that Apple wish to defend. Until someone tries it and reports the results, I think we need to consider this an open question. Many things are not officially supported but work anyway.
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post #78 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

I read the Thunderbolt specification. It doesn't support matte displays.

Great response. Sounds like something I would have said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

I never considered these displays as docking stations but not that it was mentioned in the article it is fitting. The most I use a docking station for at the office is to connect to ethernet, LCD display, and keyboard and mouse. Very cool Apple.

I absolutely want one of these as a docking station. What I really need is to find a treasure chest in my backyard with about $3000 of mad money in it that I can donate to Apple. The reason for this would be one of these bad boys, and then I would get the wife one of the new 13" Airs while I take her new MBP. The rest of the cash would go to OWC for a 240GB SSD and an 8GB upgrade for the MBP. The I could relegate the 3+ year old Mac Pro to being a spare computer/media server.

Oh well, if wishes were horses the beggars would ride...
post #79 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

A representative at Apple.

I wouldn't have believed them (because they generally know nothing), but Apple's display release history made me think they'd know what they were on about.

Really, what are you moaning about? Your new monitor works with your current system, right? Does your current computer have a thunderbolt output? If so, how is it connecting to your new monitor? If you are using an adapter, then your monitor should not be obsolete for as long as it works. Are you moaning that you will need to upgrade the monitor when you next upgrade your system
post #80 of 96
So... Apple doesn't make a display that works with the Mac Pros they are currently selling?
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